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On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat
You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people.
The idea that companies should pay towards medicare because of their products doesn't make sense at all economically. How do you predict how much money you will receive from them?
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On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people.
I recommend you go read what I said, because that's the opposite of what I'm saying.
When have I ever on this board advocated "keeping things the way they are." LOL
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On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. The idea that companies should pay towards medicare because of their products doesn't make sense at all economically. How do you predict how much money you will receive from them?
Please, O great philosopher of Glorious Capitalism, tell us how the free market will eventually solve everything by existing.
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On February 25 2013 05:01 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. I recommend you go read what I said, because that's the opposite of what I'm saying. When have I ever on this board advocated "keeping things the way they are." LOL
i suggest not ending your posts with "LOL". Comes off incredibly rude.
All you suggested was that they pay an amount of money towards medicare. Does that dictate a change in that companies policies? no it doesn't.
You still haven't said how we'd calculate how much money these companies would have to pay towards medicare
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On February 25 2013 05:04 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. The idea that companies should pay towards medicare because of their products doesn't make sense at all economically. How do you predict how much money you will receive from them? Please, O great philosopher of Glorious Capitalism, tell us how the free market will eventually solve everything by existing.
I didn't fucking say that. I just said his solution wasn't a solution at all.
I'm all for changes, I just hate the entitlement era
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Dunno why everyone always flames universal health care. Not letting people die is pretty good.
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On February 25 2013 05:01 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. I recommend you go read what I said, because that's the opposite of what I'm saying. When have I ever on this board advocated "keeping things the way they are." LOL
What he means is that you're trying to change something that he doesn't want changed, while not changing something that he sees as a problem (personal accountability lol).
Next election I'm voting for the personal accountability platform!
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On February 25 2013 05:06 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:01 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. I recommend you go read what I said, because that's the opposite of what I'm saying. When have I ever on this board advocated "keeping things the way they are." LOL What he means is that you're trying to change something that he doesn't want changed, while not changing something that he sees as a problem (personal accountability lol). Next election I'm voting for the personal accountability platform!
again...w..t..f. I'm saying you arn't changing the problem of food services selling awful products.
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On February 25 2013 05:05 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:04 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. The idea that companies should pay towards medicare because of their products doesn't make sense at all economically. How do you predict how much money you will receive from them? Please, O great philosopher of Glorious Capitalism, tell us how the free market will eventually solve everything by existing. I didn't fucking say that. I just said his solution wasn't a solution at all. I'm all for changes, I just hate the entitlement era
You haven't said much of anything, which is why you're being ridiculed. As for your little jab at the "entitlement era", of which era do you speak? Are you talking about the era between the formation of our government and extending to the future where christian businesses (read: churches) are entitled to not have to pay taxes? Are we talking about social security entitlements? Are we talking about military service entitlements? Which entitlements have made this the "entitlement era"?
I personally believe that an "entitlement era" is as hard to find as a "traditional family".
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I don't know why I bothered posting in this thread. I tell someone that a solution they are proposing isn't a solution at all and all of a sudden i'm labeled as a libertarian? You guys act like I agree that a company should be able to send out misinformation and sell awful food products. I don't btw. The thing about personal responsibility was a rant on the side how people will keep blaming the system and not doing anything to fix their life themselves. Is the system bad and should be changed? yes. Should we just accept the fact that the system is bad and not do what I suggested in a radical answer to grow your own food? it was something that annoyed me about todays people. Just because the government isn't changing anything doesn't mean you and your family have to sit on the sidewalk in sadness. Do something about it to better your family in a dark age
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On February 25 2013 05:05 Elegance wrote:
Dunno why everyone always flames universal health care. Not letting people die is pretty good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
The ironic thing is, not letting people die is one of the major sources of our high costs. Sam!zdat made a good point about end-of-life care. We expect everyone to live forever at any cost.
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On February 25 2013 05:13 Dawski wrote:
I don't know why I bothered posting in this thread. I tell someone that a solution they are proposing isn't a solution at all and all of a sudden i'm labeled as a libertarian? You guys act like I agree that a company should be able to send out misinformation and sell awful food products. I don't btw. The thing about personal responsibility was a rant on the side how people will keep blaming the system and not doing anything to fix their life themselves. Is the system bad and should be changed? yes. Should we just accept the fact that the system is bad and not do what I suggested in a radical answer to grow your own food? it was something that annoyed me about todays people
Yeah, that's the norm around here. They tried to straw man me for an hour by calling me an anarcho-capitalist. Get used to guilt by involuntary association.
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On February 25 2013 05:00 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:57 sam!zdat wrote:I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting. but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa. it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat You're accepting the system by keeping the way things are but just imposing that they pay a (unaccountable) amount of money towards medicare for being bad people. The idea that companies should pay towards medicare because of their products doesn't make sense at all economically. How do you predict how much money you will receive from them?
You can tax their products and direct that money towards healthcare system. And you do predictions as companies do. It does not have to be perfect, you can adjust with time to find correct balance.
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On February 25 2013 05:14 rusedeguerre wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:05 Elegance wrote:
Dunno why everyone always flames universal health care. Not letting people die is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThe ironic thing is, not letting people die is one of the major sources of our high costs. Sam!zdat made a good point about end-of-life care. We expect everyone to live forever at any cost.
I'll concede that point. It costs a shit ton of money to keep people alive in the tail end of their lives and that's a whole ethical crap that i'm not even gonna try to discuss. But let's think for a moment that most diseases require early detection (and most of those symptoms are quite common symptoms). Most people in Canada wouldn't mind going down to the local ER to get it checked out (i mean why not?) and move on with their lives knowing with almost certainty that it won't be a huge problem. In the US that might cost you a bit if you don't have the insurance. Let's say for example, a kid feels like his heart is pounding so he goes down to the ER, gets in pretty quick and gets it all checked out at which point the docs will tell him whether or not hes ok. All that without having to worry about a ridiculous medical bill. That kid could be anyone.
Okay, let's say "nah, that won't be me" or maybe you think most diseases happen because of bad lifesstyle choices. Well consider that there is an individual pre-disposed to get type 2 diabetes because his mother had it or whatever. He could make all the right decisions in his diet and w/e and still get diabetes. Even after getting diabetes, he could have it under control 100% and he will still run into complication due to diabetes if he is over the age of 40 (ie. blood vessels in your retina start popping etc.). So then you are fucked if you don't have the money to manage that. I use this example because many people here probably have relatives with type 2 diabetes.
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On February 25 2013 05:13 Dawski wrote:
I don't know why I bothered posting in this thread. I tell someone that a solution they are proposing isn't a solution at all and all of a sudden i'm labeled as a libertarian? You guys act like I agree that a company should be able to send out misinformation and sell awful food products. I don't btw. The thing about personal responsibility was a rant on the side how people will keep blaming the system and not doing anything to fix their life themselves. Is the system bad and should be changed? yes. Should we just accept the fact that the system is bad and not do what I suggested in a radical answer to grow your own food? it was something that annoyed me about todays people
Ok ok, I'll take you seriously for a second:
Everybody grows their own food in an anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fantasyland
You have problems which you haven't worked out in your so-called 'solution'.
How are these farms established in the first place? Who pays for the land? Is the immediate cost of buying the land going to outweigh the benefits of subsistence farming? How should the communal trade structures be modeled? Is this supposed to be a revolution on a local scale (I believe you said something about a "few" families) or will this be a national movement? How do you expect this to take root in the inner cities (pun intended)? Will urban areas be forced into hydroponics or will all cultivatable land be free game? If hydroponics are used on such a large scale, won't this create a problem for law enforcement to track coca and cannabis growers?
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On February 25 2013 05:23 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:13 Dawski wrote:
I don't know why I bothered posting in this thread. I tell someone that a solution they are proposing isn't a solution at all and all of a sudden i'm labeled as a libertarian? You guys act like I agree that a company should be able to send out misinformation and sell awful food products. I don't btw. The thing about personal responsibility was a rant on the side how people will keep blaming the system and not doing anything to fix their life themselves. Is the system bad and should be changed? yes. Should we just accept the fact that the system is bad and not do what I suggested in a radical answer to grow your own food? it was something that annoyed me about todays people Ok ok, I'll take you seriously for a second: Everybody grows their own food in an anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fantasyland You have problems which you haven't worked out in your so-called 'solution'. How are these farms established in the first place? Who pays for the land? Is the immediate cost of buying the land going to outweigh the benefits of subsistence farming? How should the communal trade structures be modeled? Is this supposed to be a revolution on a local scale (I believe you said something about a "few" families) or will this be a national movement? How do you expect this to take root in the inner cities (pun intended)? Will urban areas be forced into hydroponics or will all cultivatable land be free game? If hydroponics are used on such a large scale, won't this create a problem for law enforcement to track coca and cannabis growers?
it seems like you arn't taking me seriously like you said you were.
I wasn't proposing that every single person in the entire country get their own land plot and that's how the country will be run. I was saying that if you don't want your family to have health issues and don't trust companies then you are able to find other likeminded families and live together on a landplot you bought together to grow your own food. It's a possible solution for your family to do in dark times.
I was complaining about the entitlement era and what I mean by that is pretty simple. People nowadays feel entitled to their own home. They feel entitled to own a car or another means of transportation. There are many other examples of things like this. I feel like if there was a giant economic collapse a lot of people would just sit around sulking that life sucks now instead of realizing that it is their reality that they must fight their way through.
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On February 25 2013 05:14 rusedeguerre wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:05 Elegance wrote:
Dunno why everyone always flames universal health care. Not letting people die is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThe ironic thing is, not letting people die is one of the major sources of our high costs. Sam!zdat made a good point about end-of-life care. We expect everyone to live forever at any cost.
End of life care does cost a huge amount of money. There are actually a really good Frontline episode about this....it does seem rather ridiculous to have someone sick and old go through an expensive surgery, that she didn't even say she wanted (her daughters made the decision), only to die one week later. I understand that we should give people a chance to live and everything but at some point enough is enough and you just cause them more pain.
Not to mention the real problem is that so many people shun preventative care as it isn't always cheap (MRI's and the like) then the illness that could have been caught and dealt with in its infantile stages is now a full blown disease or cancer and will require several times more money to fix.
I would bet that if preventative care and tests in this country were more affordable, more people would them done and would end up saving a shitload of money in the end. People don't seem to understand this though and just view everything that actually helps people as handouts. Until people stop thinking like this, I don't see the situation in this country changing for the better.
Edit: Link to said Frontline episode: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/facing-death/
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On February 25 2013 05:23 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:13 Dawski wrote:
I don't know why I bothered posting in this thread. I tell someone that a solution they are proposing isn't a solution at all and all of a sudden i'm labeled as a libertarian? You guys act like I agree that a company should be able to send out misinformation and sell awful food products. I don't btw. The thing about personal responsibility was a rant on the side how people will keep blaming the system and not doing anything to fix their life themselves. Is the system bad and should be changed? yes. Should we just accept the fact that the system is bad and not do what I suggested in a radical answer to grow your own food? it was something that annoyed me about todays people Ok ok, I'll take you seriously for a second: Everybody grows their own food in an anarcho-capitalist Ayn Rand fantasyland You have problems which you haven't worked out in your so-called 'solution'. How are these farms established in the first place? Who pays for the land? Is the immediate cost of buying the land going to outweigh the benefits of subsistence farming? How should the communal trade structures be modeled? Is this supposed to be a revolution on a local scale (I believe you said something about a "few" families) or will this be a national movement? How do you expect this to take root in the inner cities (pun intended)? Will urban areas be forced into hydroponics or will all cultivatable land be free game? If hydroponics are used on such a large scale, won't this create a problem for law enforcement to track coca and cannabis growers?
I usually dont like to contribute to the further derailment of this thread but... what the hell does Ayn Rand's philosophy have to do with everyone growing their own food? I think you have no clue what your talking about.
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On February 25 2013 05:41 Enki wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 05:14 rusedeguerre wrote:On February 25 2013 05:05 Elegance wrote:
Dunno why everyone always flames universal health care. Not letting people die is pretty good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemmaThe ironic thing is, not letting people die is one of the major sources of our high costs. Sam!zdat made a good point about end-of-life care. We expect everyone to live forever at any cost. End of life care does cost a huge amount of money. There are actually a really good Frontline episode about this....it does seem rather ridiculous to have someone sick and old go through an expensive surgery, that she didn't even say she wanted (her daughters made the decision), only to die one week later. I understand that we should give people a chance to live and everything but at some point enough is enough and you just cause them more pain. Not to mention the real problem is that so many people shun preventative care as it isn't always cheap (MRI's and the like) then the illness that could have been caught and dealt with in its infantile stages is now a full blown disease or cancer and will require several times more money to fix.
I would bet that if preventative care and tests in this country were more affordable, more people would them done and would end up saving a shitload of money in the end. People don't seem to understand this though and just view everything that actually helps people as handouts. Until people stop thinking like this, I don't see the situation in this country changing for the better.
Edit: Link to said Frontline episode: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/facing-death/
This is actually a very good point.
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EPT
