|
Solution, raise taxes on wealthy/corporation's with massive profit margins (Monsanto, ect) cut military spending, apply revenue to healthcare system? That is exactly what should be done.
If I was from the US, my birth and the complications surrounding it would have put my family in the gutter for many years. Instead we ended up paying a total of $0 for what would have cost an insane amount.
It's time for you to wake up, go, have a coffee. And while you are sipping that warm delight, think about what your taxes go towards now, and imagine what you could have if they went towards other things.
Good luck friends, I honestly hope for your own sakes you guys sort this out before it's too late.
|
On February 24 2013 16:47 Blargh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 15:33 MoonfireSpam wrote:
Just out of interest, is there anything stopping anyone from opening a hospital in the US as long as it meets government standards and undercutting current prices or are there just much easier ways to make dollars?
I mean everyone is saying there's a monopoly and stuff, but is that just because nobody else wants to try and make dollars from a hospital budget airline style?
Anyways, my take is that it's a common attidude found all over business. If you can make a dollar that's great, if you can make 10 dollars, thats 10 times as great. Why should healthcare be regarded with different rules and standards to invetment banking, it's all about bringing in profits isn't it? You would never get any profit out of it since almost all of your hospital patients are people who want the service as soon as possible. If a hospital were to undercut every other hospital's prices, they would possibly get a few more people, but most of the people who went there would still be emergency patients and whatnot. Someone could transfer after the initial emergency I suppose, but I don't think such a thing will ever be viable. It's a silly market. Also, when you're talking about the health of everyone around you, the last thing you want is the #1 priority to be a profit. Health, unlike other businesses/services, is sort of a necessity to live. When I go to a hospital responsible for my life, survival, health, etc. I don't want them "in it for the money". Money is an incentive for better performance, but it's far easier to just cut corners (or very often, it is literally the opposite where they give you procedures/medicines/cures that do far more than necessary). In order to have a progressive society, health needs to be easily accessible for everyone. Society runs on everyone, after all.
But the main point that people seem to be throwing around is "hospitals mark shit up to insurance companies", sort of like utility companies in the UK (electicity falls under similar needs to health I assume). That would imply that there is a place for someone to offer a cheaper service and keep the books green without tax subsidies. I bet if you offered outpatient endoscopes at £50 less you would get a shitload of jobs. My point stands, there is room for less markup is anyone has the balls and capital to do it.
The nature of patients in the UK is they want everything under the sun done for them. It means you are forced to do lots of unnecessary scans and procedures because if you miss even 1%, you are fucked. Negative scans are an effective way of defending yourself, and also meeting patient expectations. There are a lot of crazies that just turn up for the weakest things.
Of course in an ideal world everyone would do things for the good of it, but that will never happen.
|
On February 24 2013 21:21 Mo0Rauder wrote:
Solution, raise taxes on wealthy/corporation's with massive profit margins (Monsanto, ect) cut military spending, apply revenue to healthcare system? That is exactly what should be done.
If I was from the US, my birth and the complications surrounding it would have put my family in the gutter for many years. Instead we ended up paying a total of $0 for what would have cost an insane amount.
It's time for you to wake up, go, have a coffee. And while you are sipping that warm delight, think about what your taxes go towards now, and imagine what you could have if they went towards other things.
Good luck friends, I honestly hope for your own sakes you guys sort this out before it's too late.
You're totally correct. People need to wake the fuck up and stop settling for mediocrity that will constantly devolve and become worse. IMO huge corporations like Monsanto are the biggest threat to the USA, and eventually to the rest of the world.
|
On February 24 2013 21:21 Mo0Rauder wrote:
Solution, raise taxes on wealthy/corporation's with massive profit margins (Monsanto, ect) cut military spending, apply revenue to healthcare system? That is exactly what should be done.
If I was from the US, my birth and the complications surrounding it would have put my family in the gutter for many years. Instead we ended up paying a total of $0 for what would have cost an insane amount.
It's time for you to wake up, go, have a coffee. And while you are sipping that warm delight, think about what your taxes go towards now, and imagine what you could have if they went towards other things.
Good luck friends, I honestly hope for your own sakes you guys sort this out before it's too late.
If you read the article, the problem isnt that we are not throwing enough money at healthcare. USA pays 50% more per capita than any other country. (20% of gdp). THe problem is that the healthcare system is charging insane rates simply because they can.
|
It's not like socialised healthcare systems are without problems...especially to do with customer service...but yeah the price that America spends on welfare is beyond the pale and it's because of the seller's market issue. Perhaps a government price regulator. We have privatised rail travel in England but the government still owns the tracks and they essentially lease them out to the rail companies, whose prices are regulated by the government. Have a set price that drug companies and healthcare institutions cannot exceed for each type of treatment. Perhaps also create legislation that prevents large excesses accruing to run-of-the-mill treatments.
|
On February 25 2013 01:22 Dagan159 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2013 21:21 Mo0Rauder wrote:
Solution, raise taxes on wealthy/corporation's with massive profit margins (Monsanto, ect) cut military spending, apply revenue to healthcare system? That is exactly what should be done.
If I was from the US, my birth and the complications surrounding it would have put my family in the gutter for many years. Instead we ended up paying a total of $0 for what would have cost an insane amount.
It's time for you to wake up, go, have a coffee. And while you are sipping that warm delight, think about what your taxes go towards now, and imagine what you could have if they went towards other things.
Good luck friends, I honestly hope for your own sakes you guys sort this out before it's too late. If you read the article, the problem isnt that we are not throwing enough money at healthcare. USA pays 50% more per capita than any other country. (20% of gdp). THe problem is that the healthcare system is charging insane rates simply because they can. Yep, that's just about the whole story right there. Well said!
|
I was just talking to a good friend of mine who is one of the head accounts for the major (only) hospital in our tricity area and he told me they are losing $1 million/month. The problem is that more and more patients are on medicare/medicaid (getting older and poorer) which pays pretty pitifully and the commercial industry which is literally where they make all their profit is shrinking quickly.
|
On February 23 2013 14:23 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 14:04 Dagan159 wrote:On February 23 2013 13:54 Millitron wrote:
Insurance is the problem. Hospitals and pharma companies can charge that much because most of their "customers" costs are covered by huge insurance companies. Get rid of insurance, demand falls, and so will prices. Demand never falls. People dont stop being sick. Insurance companies usually get 40-50% of chargemaster prices. You will initially be charged 100% of chargemaster costs unless you get outside help. Demand will fall. Yes people keep getting sick, but they can't actually get the care, because they can't afford it. That counts as falling demand. Yes, it will suck like shit at first, but things will improve eventually, and once they do they will be better than they are now. If you have a serious illness, you don't pussyfoot around and try tons of half-measures, you take the prescribed medicine, regardless of how bad the side-effects are. Likewise, the healthcare industry is seriously flawed, and only extreme measures will suffice. I suppose you could lessen the impact by slowly phasing out insurance instead of just dismantling it overnight, but I think it should be done.
Ah, the view of the healthy.
Let's have millions casualties right now, let the current generation suffer so the system works better for me once I'm sick.
Don't mind the cancer patients who will suffer horridly, it's for the greater good, right?
|
On February 25 2013 03:16 theinfamousone wrote:
I was just talking to a good friend of mine who is one of the head accounts for the major (only) hospital in our tricity area and he told me they are losing $1 million/month. The problem is that more and more patients are on medicare/medicaid (getting older and poorer) which pays pretty pitifully and the commercial industry which is literally where they make all their profit is shrinking quickly.
Sure, and they can't reduce costs for some reason (regulations, lack of capital, etc.) so they'll just pressure to increase prices to make up the difference. And on and on it goes...
Edit: The cost of healthcare in the US has crept up over a period of decades. The core problem is that costs have not been contained and now the industry is bloated.
|
On February 25 2013 04:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Edit: The cost of healthcare in the US has crept up over a period of decades. The core problem is that costs have not been contained and now the industry is bloated.
also our society's total inability to take any steps toward preventive maintenance, lifestyle changes, etc., and also a culture which thinks that keeping old people alive as techno-vegetables is a thing that makes sense.
edit: we should make fast food and big ag companies pay for the shortfall in medical budget. it's their externalities everyone else is dealing with.
edit: but of course, as we all know, somebody NOT getting sick doesn't do jack shit for your gdp now does it
|
On February 25 2013 04:29 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Edit: The cost of healthcare in the US has crept up over a period of decades. The core problem is that costs have not been contained and now the industry is bloated. edit: we should make fast food and big ag companies pay for the shortfall in medical budget. it's their externalities everyone else is dealing with.
I'm sorry but...wtf?...
I guess regular people are just numbskulls and don't need a shred of personal responsibility...
It's up to you to figure out if a product someone is advertising is good for your health or not, not the fucking government or the CEO trying to make money.
|
It's impossible. Too much misinformation, layers of mediation, food lobbyists. No way for an individual to be able to make rational informed choices in this environment. People simply don't have the time, access to information, interest, and so on to investigate these things for themselves. They just get fooled and fucked over. This is why liberalism is breaking down in postmodernity. I could rant about this for hours though. You should go read Food Politics by Marion Nestle, you might find it enlightening.
This "personal responsibility" stuff sounds all grand and nice and happy, but we've got a society to run here, and it's not just individuals who have to deal with the consequences.
|
On February 25 2013 01:45 sc4k wrote:
It's not like socialised healthcare systems are without problems...especially to do with customer service...but yeah the price that America spends on welfare is beyond the pale and it's because of the seller's market issue. Perhaps a government price regulator. We have privatised rail travel in England but the government still owns the tracks and they essentially lease them out to the rail companies, whose prices are regulated by the government. Have a set price that drug companies and healthcare institutions cannot exceed for each type of treatment. Perhaps also create legislation that prevents large excesses accruing to run-of-the-mill treatments.
In Canada, the only real issues with our healthcare right now is speed (having to wait for non-emergency service) and highly specialized or experimental care.
Beyond that, the system of taxing everyone so healthcare providers can offer care to everyone is just swell, and works for 95% of most people.
Sometimes you'll hear about Canadians complain about their healthcare, but these Canadians are the ones that usually have no clue how bloody expensive healthcare in the US actually is. They can't fathom the implications of say, owing $40,000 for your hospital visit after breaking your leg. Or not going to the doctor if you have a cough, simply because a 15 minute conversation might cost a couple hundred dollars.
The best part of socialized medicine is that there is no incentive for healthcare providers to deny service you need, or recommend and pressure patients into service they don't need, in order to increase their profit. That's a huge difference in the Canadian and US systems.
I don't think people realize how much profit there is to be made in the US just by recommending unnecessary diagnostic test or marked-up drug prescriptions. In the US, providers profit more the longer you are sick and insured. In Canada, providers can recommend any service, procedure or drug they want because they know it's already paid for.
And imagine how much of healthcare cost is a result of administrating the US system. Sheesh. I've can't imagine having to haggle with an insurance provider about paying for my medical service. That would be a fucking nightmare to deal with if you were terminally ill.
|
On February 25 2013 04:43 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:29 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Edit: The cost of healthcare in the US has crept up over a period of decades. The core problem is that costs have not been contained and now the industry is bloated. edit: we should make fast food and big ag companies pay for the shortfall in medical budget. it's their externalities everyone else is dealing with. I'm sorry but...wtf?... I guess regular people are just numbskulls and don't need a shred of personal responsibility... It's up to you to figure out if a product someone is advertising is good for your health or not, not the fucking government or the CEO trying to make money.
This is inaccurate. Merchants are generally (supposed) to be responsible for what they sell. If you're selling arsenic with your coca cola, that's generally a problem. That's why we have an entire government agency to police this. Have you ever heard of the Food and Drug Administration?
The question facing us is where we can tackle this issue. The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef.
|
On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef.
mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz.
|
On February 25 2013 04:49 sam!zdat wrote:
It's impossible. Too much misinformation, layers of mediation, food lobbyists. No way for an individual to be able to make rational informed choices in this environment. People simply don't have the time, access to information, interest, and so on to investigate these things for themselves. They just get fooled and fucked over. This is why liberalism is breaking down in postmodernity. I could rant about this for hours though. You should go read Food Politics by Marion Nestle, you might find it enlightening.
That doesn't matter, there's always something you can do in life. Just accepting the system and making them pay towards medicare is so rediculously stupid. I'm sick of people making excuses for themselves in life. Life is and always will be tough. You want to be completely healthy? Find 3 families who think like you do, pool your money together, live on a farm together in which you grow and raise all your own food. Strange? certainly, but it's possible. The problem is it takes a tiny bit of human responsibility and understanding that you must adapt to life, not it to you
This is inaccurate. Merchants are generally (supposed) to be responsible for what they sell. If you're selling arsenic with your coca cola, that's generally a problem. That's why we have an entire government agency to police this. Have you ever heard of the Food and Drug Administration?
They are responsible to tell you what's in it, that's it. It's up to you to do your research to find out if that's possibly unhealthy for you
|
On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz.
As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa.
|
On February 25 2013 04:56 Dawski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:49 sam!zdat wrote:
It's impossible. Too much misinformation, layers of mediation, food lobbyists. No way for an individual to be able to make rational informed choices in this environment. People simply don't have the time, access to information, interest, and so on to investigate these things for themselves. They just get fooled and fucked over. This is why liberalism is breaking down in postmodernity. I could rant about this for hours though. You should go read Food Politics by Marion Nestle, you might find it enlightening. That doesn't matter, there's always something you can do in life. Just accepting the system and making them pay towards medicare is so rediculously stupid. I'm sick of people making excuses for themselves in life. Life is and always will be tough. You want to be completely healthy? Find 3 families who think like you do, pool your money together, live on a farm together in which you grow and raise all your own food. Strange? certainly, but it's possible. The problem is it takes a tiny bit of human responsibility and understanding that you must adapt to life, not it to you Show nested quote +This is inaccurate. Merchants are generally (supposed) to be responsible for what they sell. If you're selling arsenic with your coca cola, that's generally a problem. That's why we have an entire government agency to police this. Have you ever heard of the Food and Drug Administration? They are responsible to tell you what's in it, that's it. It's up to you to do your research to find out if that's possibly unhealthy for you
I don't know what system you think it is I'm accepting.
but you seem like an ideologue and a child so I don't know if I want to get into it with you
On February 25 2013 04:56 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:54 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:53 Jormundr wrote:
The best one in my opinion would be to show kids the engineering behind chicken nuggets and fast food beef. mandatory field trips to industrial agriculture facilities, 90 percent of your kids become vegetarians, ezpz. As a meat eater who has done this (a lot), I have to say that that percentage seems awfully high. However, it would definitely provide food for thought or vice versa.
it's just hyperbole. i also eat meat
|
On February 25 2013 04:29 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Edit: The cost of healthcare in the US has crept up over a period of decades. The core problem is that costs have not been contained and now the industry is bloated. also our society's total inability to take any steps toward preventive maintenance, lifestyle changes, etc., and also a culture which thinks that keeping old people alive as techno-vegetables is a thing that makes sense.edit: we should make fast food and big ag companies pay for the shortfall in medical budget. it's their externalities everyone else is dealing with. edit: but of course, as we all know, somebody NOT getting sick doesn't do jack shit for your gdp now does it
who are you to decide on a topic like this?
This thread has been derailed so much from the point of the article. The article and interview explain that health insurance companies are only one side of the coin. The fact of the matter is the health care industry is charging way too fucking much for stuff that isn't a scarce resource. Its a joke.
Why do MRI's cost 5k and things like that? You aren't using a resource up. With the population aging more people need more scans and such which should drive prices down. Hospitals should be able to spread out the costs over more patients using the services now. But thats exactly the opposite of what is happening.
This is the only industry where a resource that isnt limited has costs being driven up by more buyers in the market. Anywhere else the cost of producing/buying something goes down the more units you sell because your start up costs are spread out more.
|
On February 25 2013 04:58 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 04:29 sam!zdat wrote:On February 25 2013 04:13 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Edit: The cost of healthcare in the US has crept up over a period of decades. The core problem is that costs have not been contained and now the industry is bloated. also our society's total inability to take any steps toward preventive maintenance, lifestyle changes, etc., and also a culture which thinks that keeping old people alive as techno-vegetables is a thing that makes sense.edit: we should make fast food and big ag companies pay for the shortfall in medical budget. it's their externalities everyone else is dealing with. edit: but of course, as we all know, somebody NOT getting sick doesn't do jack shit for your gdp now does it who are you to decide on a topic like this?
An intelligent, well-educated person who's put a great deal of thought into it, and for whom having opinions on things like this is part of my job in society. Don't give me this "that's just, like, your opinion, man" bullshit
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
