Why Medical Bills are Killing Us, by Steven Brill - Page 11

it's clearly not that hard to distinguish to between whats necessary and what is totally not necessary

Clearly it is hard to distinguish.... that's why we have an endless debate about it in society. I don't know how you can say this when I just now made you double your own list of the things that are necessary.

On February 24 2013 10:19 BrTarolg wrote:
I'm surprised that singapore isn't mentioned anywhere in this thread

It's private healthcare over there - the way it works is that every person is forced to put x amount of money (of various subsidised levels) aside, and people can choose how to use this money to spend on their healthcare (expensive or cheap)

It's capitalism at it's best. Theres HUGE competition for specialists and healthcare over there. If i don't like the price of one guy i can literally move 10 minutes down the road to find a cheaper guy

Costs seem very reasonable. One time i had an emergency with my breathing as i could barely move and breathing was hurting, so i admitted into a hospital (driven by my parents). The whole cost for that day ended up being about 200-300 dollars to be seen to by a doctor, given some time in the hospital and given a diagnosis + some treatment

Saw a sinus specialist there once, he advised me specifically on prices of stuff before we did it and suggested the most cheap route for what he thought was appropriate. Did an endoscopy, some tests, prescribed all the right treatment and medicine, all amounted to about 300-400 dollars

The healthcare there is fantastic. You can see a doctor on the day (from hundreds to choose from) for about 50 dollars cheap to 100 dollars (or more depending on who you choose)


----

I suspect prices are cheap because it's capitalism. Everyone has money saved away to spend on healthcare, and naturally people will choose what they can afford. Many spend that money on insurance, others choose not to and there is tons of competition between doctors and specialists (and hospitals) to get stuff checked out

On February 24 2013 10:35 Dagan159 wrote:



I really like this train of thought. Some potential issues I can think of however include emergency care, and ambulance costs where its neccessary for to seek help from the closeest possible provider. Also, what if costs exceed the money you were required to set aside? Does the government step in?

A lot of Americans would be averse to being required to set aside money, but in my opinion its better than having the money pass in and out of the government. In my mind there are 2 distinct solutions, either more capitalism (more competition, however im not sure how to introduce this) or complete government oversight, and price regulations. Of course this is the main dividing line for the country, so nothing will ever get done,

On February 24 2013 10:48 Simberto wrote:
Can you just stop talking to Ruse?

That is a guy with 4 posts prior to this thread, and a pretty trolly name completely derailing a thread with anarcho-capitalist nonsense, changing definitions of words, the whole stuff we have seen in just about any political thread here. Do you really not notice that he is just trolling you? He will never accept what you say, and when driven into a corner he will just ignore what you said, act smug, and tell you that you are sheep. And it is apparently pretty effective trolling because even if they do it for them 100ths time on another new alt, people will still bite it because it is just so delicious to try to make someone acting in that way understand just how much bullshit they are sprouting. But they are just trolling you. So ignore them, report, and continue with the discussion this thread is actually about instead of the 100th debate of why taxation is not theft, why we are not slaves owned by human farmers, etc.... Just ignore it.

On February 24 2013 10:43 BrTarolg wrote:


AFAIK, ambulances are free for emergencies. They classify what is and isn't an emergency. Otherwise its a 180$ fee if it isn't an emergency

Also they will just take you to the nearest hospital in the case of an emergency (a real, life threatening one)

In my case, i was healthy enough to be driven by parents to a hospital of my choice (though not healthy enough to make it there on my own thats for sure haha)

edit:

let me clarify. An emergency ambulance will take you to a government hospital. You can of course, call a private hospital for a private ambulance if you so wish.

On February 24 2013 10:53 terranu1 wrote:
What is flawed is the way the citizens are cornered into thinking they are zombies who can't do nothing for themselves whenever they feel ill, but rush to the nearest hospital to get robbed by the big pharmaceutical companies. The dependency on hospitals and doctors and mostly,drugs, that's the real issue. I've read more terrifiant articles wich pointed out how alot of drugs are made to prolongue a disease while easening the pain and others to play a role in future development of new random diseases to be treated and man I'm sure it's all real.
Why ? mostly because whenever a citizen feels ill, his highest concern is to put or find out the name of whatever he "has". Strange but that's why the modern medicine never fails to deliver because doctors ,CT's and what not can put a name on whatever it is, be it wrong or right and that somehow is more than enough for the patient. Once he finds out ,he's ready to take whatever drug is needed against that particular named disease.This wouldn't be a problem if the guys who are in charge with the development of drugs were actually well intended good people but they are far from that.
There used to be times when you became ill because there was a reason to it and if the disease was deadly you would simply die unless you had a will strong enough to overcome it and learn from that what is to be learned. Nowadays is nothing like that, nowadays the hospitals are nothing different than fast food stands.

On February 24 2013 10:53 terranu1 wrote:
What is flawed is the way the citizens are cornered into thinking they are zombies who can't do nothing for themselves whenever they feel ill, but rush to the nearest hospital to get robbed by the big pharmaceutical companies. The dependency on hospitals and doctors and mostly,drugs, that's the real issue. I've read more terrifiant articles wich pointed out how alot of drugs are made to prolongue a disease while easening the pain and others to play a role in future development of new random diseases to be treated and man I'm sure it's all real.
Why ? mostly because whenever a citizen feels ill, his highest concern is to put or find out the name of whatever he "has". Strange but that's why the modern medicine never fails to deliver because doctors ,CT's and what not can put a name on whatever it is, be it wrong or right and that somehow is more than enough for the patient. Once he finds out ,he's ready to take whatever drug is needed against that particular named disease.This wouldn't be a problem if the guys who are in charge with the development of drugs were actually well intended good people but they are far from that.
There used to be times when you became ill because there was a reason to it and if the disease was deadly you would simply die unless you had a will strong enough to overcome it and learn from that what is to be learned. Nowadays is nothing like that, nowadays the hospitals are nothing different than fast food stands.

On February 24 2013 10:53 terranu1 wrote:
What is flawed is the way the citizens are cornered into thinking they are zombies who can't do nothing for themselves whenever they feel ill, but rush to the nearest hospital to get robbed by the big pharmaceutical companies. The dependency on hospitals and doctors and mostly,drugs, that's the real issue. I've read more terrifiant articles wich pointed out how alot of drugs are made to prolongue a disease while easening the pain and others to play a role in future development of new random diseases to be treated and man I'm sure it's all real.
Why ? mostly because whenever a citizen feels ill, his highest concern is to put or find out the name of whatever he "has". Strange but that's why the modern medicine never fails to deliver because doctors ,CT's and what not can put a name on whatever it is, be it wrong or right and that somehow is more than enough for the patient. Once he finds out ,he's ready to take whatever drug is needed against that particular named disease.This wouldn't be a problem if the guys who are in charge with the development of drugs were actually well intended good people but they are far from that.
There used to be times when you became ill because there was a reason to it and if the disease was deadly you would simply die unless you had a will strong enough to overcome it and learn from that what is to be learned. Nowadays is nothing like that, nowadays the hospitals are nothing different than fast food stands.

On February 24 2013 10:53 terranu1 wrote:
What is flawed is the way the citizens are cornered into thinking they are zombies who can't do nothing for themselves whenever they feel ill, but rush to the nearest hospital to get robbed by the big pharmaceutical companies. The dependency on hospitals and doctors and mostly,drugs, that's the real issue. I've read more terrifiant articles wich pointed out how alot of drugs are made to prolongue a disease while easening the pain and others to play a role in future development of new random diseases to be treated and man I'm sure it's all real.
Why ? mostly because whenever a citizen feels ill, his highest concern is to put or find out the name of whatever he "has". Strange but that's why the modern medicine never fails to deliver because doctors ,CT's and what not can put a name on whatever it is, be it wrong or right and that somehow is more than enough for the patient. Once he finds out ,he's ready to take whatever drug is needed against that particular named disease.This wouldn't be a problem if the guys who are in charge with the development of drugs were actually well intended good people but they are far from that.
There used to be times when you became ill because there was a reason to it and if the disease was deadly you would simply die unless you had a will strong enough to overcome it and learn from that what is to be learned. Nowadays is nothing like that, nowadays the hospitals are nothing different than fast food stands.

On February 24 2013 11:05 Dagan159 wrote:


Sure the pharm companies might conceive a pill like that. But they have very good reasons not to. First PR, if you lose credibility as a pharm company that will cost you millions of dollars. Secondly doctors arent going to prescribe it. If you think that doctors perscribe medicine to purposefully keep a person in a sickly state then your off your rocker. Most doctors truely care about their patients, and have made enourmous sacrifices to understand exactly what drugs do to the body. Dont demonize everyone in the industry because of the failings of a few.

On February 24 2013 10:53 terranu1 wrote:
There used to be times when you became ill because there was a reason to it and if the disease was deadly you would simply die unless you had a will strong enough to overcome it and learn from that what is to be learned. Nowadays is nothing like that, nowadays the hospitals are nothing different than fast food stands.

On February 24 2013 11:13 terranu1 wrote:


Yes there's a huge battle between good and bad people here and yes, most of the drugs are made to aid not to harm but do you really think that at the end of the day the good doctors win over the billions of dollars profit that could be made off a drug not properly tested and not developed to it's best ? Talk about the corruption in the healthcare system but no corruption in the drug production system ? I was mostly responding to the first post using my common sense so there's no need for anyone else to quote me wether they think i'm talking trash or not.Really.

On February 24 2013 11:27 terranu1 wrote:
Not every doctor out there because not every doctor out there has the power to confront those companies.

Besides that, my point is that a disease can be cured without the aid off doctors and with really cheap and effective ways ,the so called and widely hated "alternative" medicine wich I have rarely seen in hospitals .I did spent over 2 years as a patient for different severe problems wether you believe it or not and many doctors told me that unless I have the will to fight the disease, drugs won't help much. Most of the good doctors tell you that if they care about you.
Do you want to be cured ? They ask me. If yes, then start acting like it, don't count on the pills to do the job everytime.

On February 24 2013 11:27 terranu1 wrote:
Not every doctor out there because not every doctor out there has the power to confront those companies.

Besides that, my point is that a disease can be cured without the aid off doctors and with really cheap and effective ways ,the so called and widely hated "alternative" medicine wich I have rarely seen in hospitals .I did spent over 2 years as a patient for different severe problems wether you believe it or not and many doctors told me that unless I have the will to fight the disease, drugs won't help much. Most of the good doctors tell you that if they care about you.
Do you want to be cured ? They ask me. If yes, then start acting like it, don't count on the pills to do the job everytime.

On February 24 2013 11:27 terranu1 wrote:
Not every doctor out there because not every doctor out there has the power to confront those companies.

Besides that, my point is that a disease can be cured without the aid off doctors and with really cheap and effective ways ,the so called and widely hated "alternative" medicine wich I have rarely seen in hospitals .I did spent over 2 years as a patient for different severe problems wether you believe it or not and many doctors told me that unless I have the will to fight the disease, drugs won't help much. Most of the good doctors tell you that if they care about you.
Do you want to be cured ? They ask me. If yes, then start acting like it, don't count on the pills to do the job everytime.