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Alright, enough religious debate. If you want to talk about Pope Benedict and what he specifically did or didn't do, go ahead. But no more general discussion on the merits or ills of the Catholic church or their history.
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Canada13389 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm a Catholic, and I have no problem admitting that the Church is completely assbackwards on its teachings and canon law on sex. It all flows from the fundamental idea that sex is sacred and should not be had unless procreation is intended (ie -- no "fornicating"). This means no condoms or other birth control. In theory, this could be an acceptable position at least logically (however misguided) if the Church stuck to it. However, the Church doesn't. Instead, the Church creates and preaches two huge hypocritical loopholes. First, it teaches newly weds "natural family planning" techniques (timing sex to avoid peak fertility during the menstrual cycle), which is no different than using a condom in terms of intent. Second, and perhaps even worse, it then states it is okay to use a condom when one of the spouses has an STD (though I think it has to be a major one like AIDS). So really, is fornicating allowed or is it not?
"natural" family planning isn't outside the church's teachings though in a technical sense, since childbirth can still occur. Its one of those "God's Plan" kind of thought processes. As for STDs, yeah kinda backwards from a logical standpoint but in the end both these things are the "move slowly with the times" aspect of religion.
I'm a catholic myself, and I don't follow the catechism hardcore and am really fairly liberal. I don't know if I am still considered a "catholic" but I learned a lot of morality and lessons from my religion growing up and am happy I did. I really am glad I was never one of those hardcore religious fanatics though. Sometimes religion can be scary with people following too rigidly :s
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On February 11 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:23 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. you're rude and offensive beyond words He was as well. I don't see a reason to hold back.
what you are saying is blasphemic, you are insulting a over 2000 year old tradition that billions of people follow with their heart and soul, because someone asked you to use your brain.
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I looked up the qualifications to become Pope, turns out I'm eligible and if I were to be elected this would be one badass thing to live up to!
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On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable.
His description of those societies is exaggerated. The point is: those people are certainly not capable of abstaining from sex. The Catholic Church tells them "don't use condoms, abstain from sex". The way the overwhelming majority of those people reason is: "while I can't abstain from sex, at least I don't use condoms." They think that while they commit a sin (adultery), it's not as bad as commiting two sins at the same time (adultery+use of contraceptions).
The Church is in a denial of reality and has very unrealistic expectations. What they preach (using contraceptions, especially in case of condoms, being bad) does more harm than good.
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Abstinence is no solution.
Neither is anti gay.
Some people come in this thread and say it's very rude, hateful and disrispectful against catholics but then continue to use the same amount of hatred for gays.
If you really believe in Christ, what about more compassion for 10% of gods children instead.
Some people are gay some are not. You cannot change that. You don't chose if you fancy blond, ginger or brunette, it's just something you are born with.
Guys who didn't like girls often ended up as priest and weren't allowed to have sex ever again.
But since it goes so strongly against human nature it's not that strange some couldn't cope with it, and assaulted young boys.
To me, stop denying gay priests exist and allow them as any other human being could be a solution for that. Together with allowing partners, no more abstinence, where is that in the bible. It's man made.
And to come back to subject, a more modern minded pope and church would be a real blessing into that direction. But it will probably take a lot more generations of popes, if ever.
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United States42967 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm a Catholic, and I have no problem admitting that the Church is completely assbackwards on its teachings and canon law on sex. It all flows from the fundamental idea that sex is sacred and should not be had unless procreation is intended (ie -- no "fornicating"). This means no condoms or other birth control. In theory, this could be an acceptable position at least logically (however misguided) if the Church stuck to it. However, the Church doesn't. Instead, the Church creates and preaches two huge hypocritical loopholes. First, it teaches newly weds "natural family planning" techniques (timing sex to avoid peak fertility during the menstrual cycle), which is no different than using a condom in terms of intent. Second, and perhaps even worse, it then states it is okay to use a condom when one of the spouses has an STD (though I think it has to be a major one like AIDS). So really, is fornicating allowed or is it not?
They also rely heavily on natural periods of infertility due to hormones such as prolonged breastfeeding. Oddly enough this is essentially indistinguishable from the pill but it's old so gets a pass. Still, glad to see you on my side on this one.
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On February 11 2013 23:30 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:23 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. you're rude and offensive beyond words He was as well. I don't see a reason to hold back. what you are saying is blasphemic, you are insulting a over 2000 year old tradition that billions of people follow with their heart and soul, because someone asked you to use your brain.
You say this as if the accusation of blasphemy held any meaning. Heads up, believing wierd stuff does not mean you are granted immunity from ridicule or harsh language.
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Canada13389 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:30 DevilofDeath wrote:I looked up the qualifications to become Pope, turns out I'm eligible and if I were to be elected this would be one badass thing to live up to!
I always find these things ridiculous haha, They seem to grasp at straws so often 
But DAYUM THE END TIMES etc etc. Maybe if I stand on a street corner with a sign and a hat I can make a living .....
On February 11 2013 23:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:22 xDaunt wrote:
I'm a Catholic, and I have no problem admitting that the Church is completely assbackwards on its teachings and canon law on sex. It all flows from the fundamental idea that sex is sacred and should not be had unless procreation is intended (ie -- no "fornicating"). This means no condoms or other birth control. In theory, this could be an acceptable position at least logically (however misguided) if the Church stuck to it. However, the Church doesn't. Instead, the Church creates and preaches two huge hypocritical loopholes. First, it teaches newly weds "natural family planning" techniques (timing sex to avoid peak fertility during the menstrual cycle), which is no different than using a condom in terms of intent. Second, and perhaps even worse, it then states it is okay to use a condom when one of the spouses has an STD (though I think it has to be a major one like AIDS). So really, is fornicating allowed or is it not? They also rely heavily on natural periods of infertility due to hormones such as prolonged breastfeeding. Oddly enough this is essentially indistinguishable from the pill but it's old so gets a pass. Still, glad to see you on my side on this one.
Yeah a lot of people are pretty critical of the Catechism, and honestly, some of the rules are mad out dated I hope the church and religion in general can move with the times and people of all religions can some day distinguish blind following and specific rules from basic tenets of being a good person and happening to learn it through their chosen religion.
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On February 11 2013 20:15 sertas wrote:
so why doesnt god just give him strength to continue? Something is fishy here
HAHAHA
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:27 SpeaKEaSY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. Condoms tearing is not what's causing the problems african peoples have with AIDS. Neither is anal sex. It's the fact that they don't have condoms. That's the real problem. And by saying that "it might be ok to use condoms in some cases if you're a male prostitute, ...", he's certainly not gonna help that problem. More like it's the fact that people who have AIDS have sex anyway and spread AIDS even when advised not to is the real problem. And the "quote" you provided is not true.
I quoted that from the fucking article he posted, WTF. Those are his exact words. Stop replying if you're not gonna bother checking first.
But they're humans. Sex is a natural instinct they have. Most of them lack the education to fully understand what AIDS is. Just telling them "well, don't have sex then" isn't gonna solve the fucking problem. Yes it's theoretically correct but it ignores the fucking problem. It's easy to talk from that golden chair of his but he's completely fucking delusional if he thinks that advising abstinence is gonna solve anything. How about you do something practical first that actually helps (like, I dunno... giving them condoms?) and actually teaching them wtf AIDS is so they'll understand why it might not be a good idea for them to have sex.
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On February 11 2013 23:31 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. His description of those societies is exaggerated. The point is: those people are certainly not capable of abstaining from sex. The Catholic Church tells them "don't use condoms, abstain from sex". The way the overwhelming majority of those people reason is: "while I can't abstain from sex, at least I don't use condoms." They think that while they commit a sin (adultery), it's not as bad as commiting two sins at the same time (adultery+use of contraceptions).
I'm still waiting for an explanation why it's the pope/church's fault that these people are applying flawed logic. And I have a hard to believing that while someone is committing adultery, they're thinking to themselves "I'm not using a condom, look at me, I'm a good catholic!"
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On February 11 2013 23:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:07 SiroKO wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. The main vocation of catholicity is not the promotion of condom and libertinage. Churches promote fidelity and abstinence. In case you didn't know, the VIH tests are free in sub-sahara Africa. Thus if Subsaharan Africans were acting like true Catholics, their AIDS rate would become far inferior to the ones of atheist groups among first world countries. Being a bad Christian does not mean they deserve to die horrible early deaths. How can you be so lacking in compassion? They're dying and your only response is "well they should have been better Christians". Jesus.
I just demonstrated that the Catholics message is not the cause of AIDS in Subsaharan Africa.
People claiming otherwise are uninformed or dishonest.
Besides, the pope never forbade condomns, he never put a catholic seal of approval on it which is quite different.
On February 11 2013 23:19 radiatoren wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:07 SiroKO wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. The main vocation of catholocity is not the promotion of condom and libertinage. Churches promote fidelity and abstinence. In case you didn't know, the VIH tests are free in sub-sahara Africa. Thus if Subsaharan Africans were acting like true Catholics, the AIDS rate would become far inferior to the ones of atheist groups among first world countries. It seems there are things in the human life no church can control? How many US politicians and preachers have called on abstinence and fidelity while not keeping it themself? Being realistic about society is a challenge for religion and you have to ask if society is moving too fast for the religions systems. It is not so much about a need for being consistent as an institution. Since we get new popes as often as others change underwear, it is about the elected popes being open about his opinions on some of the issues and making sense a bigger part of the popal work as opposed to traditional value promotion! 100 years ago abstinence was hot. Today it is not...
First of, there's a difference between ideals and realities.
You can respect and admire an ideal without sharing it or respecting it.
Secondly, Catholicism is a multi-millenial doctrine. It has proved itelf.
I doubt our decadent and dying western culture will last as long. Not only that, but I doubt people would find any interest in a religion which basically reiterates the main opinions of the media and don't take any courageous stances.
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This is actually not too much of a suprise, except for perhaps the timing. He's said repeatedly in his recent writings and interviews that he would consider abdicating if he didn't have the physical stamina to carry out the tasks of Pope, as well as noting the reality that people live much longer than before. And abdication is such a better word to use on this occasion than "resignation". Whom would he resign to, lol?
Anyways, he was an extraodinary Pope, and I hope the conclave elects a new Pope who is able to serve the church as well as Benedict XVI and John Paul II did. God bless him and the new Pope!
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Austria24417 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:30 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:23 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. you're rude and offensive beyond words He was as well. I don't see a reason to hold back. what you are saying is blasphemic, you are insulting a over 2000 year old tradition that billions of people follow with their heart and soul, because someone asked you to use your brain.
LOL, I don't give a fuck about blasphemic. I don't believe in god. I don't feel obligated to respect people who would defend an organisation that has opressed and exploited people for centuries. I'm not insulting the christian belief itself, I'm rightfully calling out the organisation representing it. And if you're actually feeling insulted by that then whatever. Tell me how what I said is wrong and why exactly I should feel bad for it.
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Wow, JP 2 would be disappoint. That guy was pope to the end. I remember seeing him in Toronto, and back then the guy could barely hold his head up. He was still going about his papal business like a boss for another few years after that.
I remember when they chose Benedict XVI there was talk that the guy was just a placeholder or temporary (shorter term than the last) pope, but I figured it was because he was so old when he was appointed to the position... I didn't think it was because he was the biggest wimp in 600 years. Do it 'til death or turn the job down... shit.
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On February 11 2013 23:25 SpeaKEaSY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:22 xDaunt wrote:
Second, and perhaps even worse, it then states it is okay to use a condom when one of the spouses has an STD (though I think it has to be a major one like AIDS). So really, is fornicating allowed or is it not? Not true at all. Do you have a source?
This is what they taught in my marriage prep class.
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Serious question: Why doesn't he just pray his sickness away? I mean if God is going to grant anyone good health, he should probably give it to the guy who is supposed to be his earthly proxy.
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On February 11 2013 23:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:25 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:22 xDaunt wrote:
Second, and perhaps even worse, it then states it is okay to use a condom when one of the spouses has an STD (though I think it has to be a major one like AIDS). So really, is fornicating allowed or is it not? Not true at all. Do you have a source? This is what they taught in my marriage prep class.
A marriage what now?
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Canada13389 Posts
I just want to add to everyone reading my post.
We should try to remember that a certain amount of respect should be given to those who believe in the catholic church and god and religion etc etc.
This thread is about a religious leader stepping down from his position and not a thread about the "power of god" and prayer or validity of religion etc etc.
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On February 11 2013 23:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:27 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. Condoms tearing is not what's causing the problems african peoples have with AIDS. Neither is anal sex. It's the fact that they don't have condoms. That's the real problem. And by saying that "it might be ok to use condoms in some cases if you're a male prostitute, ...", he's certainly not gonna help that problem. More like it's the fact that people who have AIDS have sex anyway and spread AIDS even when advised not to is the real problem. And the "quote" you provided is not true. I quoted that from the fucking article he posted, WTF. Those are his exact words. Stop replying if you're not gonna bother checking first. But they're humans. Sex is a natural instinct they have. Most of them lack the education to fully understand what AIDS is. Just telling them "well, don't have sex then" isn't gonna solve the fucking problem. Yes it's theoretically correct but it ignores the fucking problem. It's easy to talk from that golden chair of his but he's completely fucking delusional if he thinks that advising abstinence is gonna solve anything. How about you do something practical first that actually helps (like, I dunno... giving them condoms?) and actually teachign them wtf AIDS is so they'll understand why it might not be a good idea for them to have sex.
Those are not his exact words. We can't have a productive discussion if you are going to blatantly lie like that.
Human beings also have a natural instinct to eat. Do you believe that people should eat until they weigh 600 lbs? And why do you believe they are incapable of practicing self control? Because they're Africans?
Practicing abstinence doesn't ignore the problem, it addresses it directly and provides a solution. Using condoms allows the problem to continue.
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EPT
