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Alright, enough religious debate. If you want to talk about Pope Benedict and what he specifically did or didn't do, go ahead. But no more general discussion on the merits or ills of the Catholic church or their history.
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On February 11 2013 23:41 ZeromuS wrote:
I just want to add to everyone reading my post.
We should try to remember that a certain amount of respect should be given to those who believe in the catholic church and god and religion etc etc.
Why?
User was warned for this post
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On February 11 2013 21:49 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 20:53 KimJongChill wrote:wow that was awesome, thanks for sharing..wonder who peter the roman will be . . . Well by prophecy he will be antichrist and end times for this world will start.
obviously its Barack Obama
LOL
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I suspect most people in this thread to not have read any of the text/speech made by the Pope ither that the tidbits that appeared in the press every once in a while. As a christian, I've read several of his speeches, and most of them have been really inspiring. He was way more progressist and open minded that people gives him credit for.
I was not excited when he was elected, but I must admit that he was a really good pope.
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On February 11 2013 23:37 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:30 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:23 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:
[quote]
Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. you're rude and offensive beyond words He was as well. I don't see a reason to hold back. what you are saying is blasphemic, you are insulting a over 2000 year old tradition that billions of people follow with their heart and soul, because someone asked you to use your brain. LOL, I don't give a fuck about blasphemic. I don't believe in god. I don't feel obligated to respect people who would defend an organisation that has opressed and exploited people for centuries. I'm not insulting the christian belief itself, I'm rightfully calling out the organisation representing it. And if you're actually feeling insulted by that then whatever. Tell me how what I said is wrong and why exactly I should feel bad for it.
Well, the catholic church has done good and bad. Throughout most of it's history the catholic church was regarded positively. It is just that todays popular culture tends to focus more on the darker sides of the catholic churches history than on the more positive ones.
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obviously its Barack Obama
Silly Sally, everyone knows Obama is a cloned egyptian pharao who has been resurrected to prepare the way for the arrival of his alien overlords. Duh.
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On February 11 2013 23:41 ZeromuS wrote:
I just want to add to everyone reading my post.
We should try to remember that a certain amount of respect should be given to those who believe in the catholic church and god and religion etc etc.
That goes both ways.
Have the same respect for atheists, other religions, gays, women and you get my respect too.
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how long before this becomes a "religion sucks" thread.
ot, what should happen if the catholic church does not have a pope?
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On February 11 2013 23:39 McBengt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:38 xDaunt wrote:On February 11 2013 23:25 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:22 xDaunt wrote:
Second, and perhaps even worse, it then states it is okay to use a condom when one of the spouses has an STD (though I think it has to be a major one like AIDS). So really, is fornicating allowed or is it not? Not true at all. Do you have a source? This is what they taught in my marriage prep class. A marriage what now?
If you want to get married within the Church, you're required to attend a marriage preparation course. The one that I went to was absolutely horrific, taught by a French couple (Christian and Christine) who were the wrong kind of Catholics in my opinion. They were the type of Catholic that were previously a-religious until Christine had an abortion, at which point they found God, dropped everything in their lives, and became missionaries. They taught the Bible with a kind of literalism that I previously did not think existed within the Catholic Church anymore.
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On February 11 2013 23:45 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
how long before this becomes a "religion sucks" thread.
ot, what should happen if the catholic church does not have a pope?
What happens when they don't have a pope is they hold a meeting to select a new one. The meeting takes about 2 weeks.
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Rather indifferent on the whole matter though I have to say from the outside looking in I find the papal selection process intriguing.
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Why's this entire thread about sex? Obviously because the Church has a compulsive obsession with people having sex. And their views are from the middle ages, That's exactly why, no one should pay any attention to this archaic institution. Ignore the Church, it has no place in today's modern society.
The pope quit. So the fuck what?
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On February 11 2013 23:37 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:15 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 23:07 SiroKO wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. The main vocation of catholicity is not the promotion of condom and libertinage. Churches promote fidelity and abstinence. In case you didn't know, the VIH tests are free in sub-sahara Africa. Thus if Subsaharan Africans were acting like true Catholics, their AIDS rate would become far inferior to the ones of atheist groups among first world countries. Being a bad Christian does not mean they deserve to die horrible early deaths. How can you be so lacking in compassion? They're dying and your only response is "well they should have been better Christians". Jesus. I just demonstrated that the Catholics message is not the cause of AIDS in Subsaharan Africa. People claiming otherwise are uninformed or dishonest. Besides, the pope never forbade condomns, he never put a catholic seal of approval on it which is quite different. Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:19 radiatoren wrote:On February 11 2013 23:07 SiroKO wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. The main vocation of catholocity is not the promotion of condom and libertinage. Churches promote fidelity and abstinence. In case you didn't know, the VIH tests are free in sub-sahara Africa. Thus if Subsaharan Africans were acting like true Catholics, the AIDS rate would become far inferior to the ones of atheist groups among first world countries. It seems there are things in the human life no church can control? How many US politicians and preachers have called on abstinence and fidelity while not keeping it themself? Being realistic about society is a challenge for religion and you have to ask if society is moving too fast for the religions systems. It is not so much about a need for being consistent as an institution. Since we get new popes as often as others change underwear, it is about the elected popes being open about his opinions on some of the issues and making sense a bigger part of the popal work as opposed to traditional value promotion! 100 years ago abstinence was hot. Today it is not... First of, there's a difference between ideals and realities. You can respect and admire an ideal without sharing it or respecting it. Secondly, Catholicism is a multi-millenial doctrine. It has proved itelf. I doubt our decadent and dying western culture will last as long. Not only that, but I doubt people would find any interest in a religion which basically reiterates the main opinions of the media and don't take any courageous stances.
There is absolutely nothing even approaching courageous in promoting a dead culture that will never come back. I would even go as far as calling it cowardish! Thinking new is where the big issues are solved, not in objecting to the reality by repeating the same disproven fallacies.
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On February 11 2013 23:45 xwoGworwaTsx wrote:
how long before this becomes a "religion sucks" thread.
ot, what should happen if the catholic church does not have a pope?
Did you read the first 9 pages? XD
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On February 11 2013 23:37 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:15 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 23:07 SiroKO wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. The main vocation of catholicity is not the promotion of condom and libertinage. Churches promote fidelity and abstinence. In case you didn't know, the VIH tests are free in sub-sahara Africa. Thus if Subsaharan Africans were acting like true Catholics, their AIDS rate would become far inferior to the ones of atheist groups among first world countries. Being a bad Christian does not mean they deserve to die horrible early deaths. How can you be so lacking in compassion? They're dying and your only response is "well they should have been better Christians". Jesus. I just demonstrated that the Catholics message is not the cause of AIDS in Subsaharan Africa. People claiming otherwise are uninformed or dishonest. Besides, the pope never forbade condomns, he never put a catholic seal of approval on it which is quite different. Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:19 radiatoren wrote:On February 11 2013 23:07 SiroKO wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. The main vocation of catholocity is not the promotion of condom and libertinage. Churches promote fidelity and abstinence. In case you didn't know, the VIH tests are free in sub-sahara Africa. Thus if Subsaharan Africans were acting like true Catholics, the AIDS rate would become far inferior to the ones of atheist groups among first world countries. It seems there are things in the human life no church can control? How many US politicians and preachers have called on abstinence and fidelity while not keeping it themself? Being realistic about society is a challenge for religion and you have to ask if society is moving too fast for the religions systems. It is not so much about a need for being consistent as an institution. Since we get new popes as often as others change underwear, it is about the elected popes being open about his opinions on some of the issues and making sense a bigger part of the popal work as opposed to traditional value promotion! 100 years ago abstinence was hot. Today it is not... First of, there's a difference between ideals and realities. You can respect and admire an ideal without sharing it or respecting it. Secondly, Catholicism is a multi-millenial doctrine. It has proved itelf. I doubt our decadent and dying western culture will last as long. Not only that, but I doubt people would find any interest in a religion which basically reiterates the main opinions of the media and don't take any courageous stances.
I would also argue that Catholicism has proved itself during all this time, but I'd make the reverse case of it. And holding on to old, outdated views that discriminates are not courageous but cowardly. Being even more compassionate and caring, that is courage. There is a reason almost no one likes to have the old testament cited for example.
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I'm really surprised that Pope Benedict XVI stepped down from his position, considering the job is generally until the person dies. The last time a pope resigned was nearly 600 years ago. His "health issues" shouldn't really be a reason for him to quit.
On February 11 2013 23:30 DevilofDeath wrote:I looked up the qualifications to become Pope, turns out I'm eligible and if I were to be elected this would be one badass thing to live up to!
I think it's in the best interest for all of us to organize resumes and put together cover letters, and have a healthy TL competition to see if one of us can become the new pope.
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On February 11 2013 23:41 ZeromuS wrote:
We should try to remember that a certain amount of respect should be given to those who believe in the catholic church and god and religion etc etc.
Yes, to the people who hold these beliefs. Not the beliefs themselves, however.
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On February 11 2013 23:45 Zandar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:41 ZeromuS wrote:
I just want to add to everyone reading my post.
We should try to remember that a certain amount of respect should be given to those who believe in the catholic church and god and religion etc etc. That goes both ways. Have the same respect for atheists, other religions, gays, women and you get my respect too.
Do we have to have respect for Scientologists, 9/11 conspirators, pastafarians, and flat-earth creationists too?
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:44 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:37 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:30 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:23 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. you're rude and offensive beyond words He was as well. I don't see a reason to hold back. what you are saying is blasphemic, you are insulting a over 2000 year old tradition that billions of people follow with their heart and soul, because someone asked you to use your brain. LOL, I don't give a fuck about blasphemic. I don't believe in god. I don't feel obligated to respect people who would defend an organisation that has opressed and exploited people for centuries. I'm not insulting the christian belief itself, I'm rightfully calling out the organisation representing it. And if you're actually feeling insulted by that then whatever. Tell me how what I said is wrong and why exactly I should feel bad for it. Well, the catholic church has done good and bad. Throughout most of it's history the catholic church was regarded positively. It is just that todays popular culture tends to focus more on the darker sides of the catholic churches history than on the more positive ones.
Completely true and I won't disagree with that. However the "bad" things were so fucking incredibly bad that people defending the church as a whole make me sick. Burning "witches", crusades, etc. Those are part of the "2000 year old tradition" he's talking about and fuck yes I'm gonna criticize that.
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On February 11 2013 23:36 SpeaKEaSY wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:31 maybenexttime wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. His description of those societies is exaggerated. The point is: those people are certainly not capable of abstaining from sex. The Catholic Church tells them "don't use condoms, abstain from sex". The way the overwhelming majority of those people reason is: "while I can't abstain from sex, at least I don't use condoms." They think that while they commit a sin (adultery), it's not as bad as commiting two sins at the same time (adultery+use of contraceptions). I'm still waiting for an explanation why it's the pope/church's fault that these people are applying flawed logic. And I have a hard to believing that while someone is committing adultery, they're thinking to themselves "I'm not using a condom, look at me, I'm a good catholic!"
Because they are being discouraged from using them by the Church? Fighting each sin is a different battle. It's easier to win those small battles (e.g. not using condoms) than those big ones (e.g. abstaining from sex before you get married). You're talking as if religious people who are having extramarital sex don't feel guilty about it. It's not a matter of calculating, but rather emotions. They feel bad about sinning. I find it hard to imagine that someone who commits one type of sin somehow will think to himself that it's okay for him to commit all sorts of different sins he considers "lesser".
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France9034 Posts
On February 11 2013 23:30 Wrath 2.1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 23:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:23 Wrath 2.1 wrote:On February 11 2013 23:20 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:16 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 11 2013 23:09 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 23:03 KwarK wrote:On February 11 2013 22:53 SpeaKEaSY wrote:On February 11 2013 22:51 KwarK wrote:
The vast, vast majority of HIV infections result from heterosexual sex in sub Saharan Africa due to shitty AIDS education there. Sorry but the facts disagree with you. Not really. From what I understand, the church teaches that if you don't have sex (abstinence), you can't transmit the virus sexually. How do the facts disagree with that? This is not practical advice for a modern family who can't afford ten kids, let alone for war torn, misogynistic rape cultures. It's not quite as bad as saying "the only way to cure HIV is to pass it on to someone else, if you still have it then they probably didn't catch it or already had it so try often with multiple partners" but discouraging condom use isn't far off that. Abstinence only is a symptom of institutional denial of realities in the Vatican, no atheist pun intended, it's not preventing the spread of HIV while condoms work. Wait what? "If you don't want kids, don't have sex" is not practical advice to a modern family who can't afford ten kids? So it's the fault of an old man in Italy giving advice that will solve the problem if followed, but not the fault of rapists in a rape culture? Seems like the hatred is a bit misplaced here... Bottom line is, it's impossible to spread AIDS sexually without having sex. It is still possible to do so when having sex with condoms. This is not debatable. It's also possible for the human race to die without having sex ffs. Not having sex is against nature. Everybody who advises abstinence is an idiot. lol, please try to use your brain. No one is promoting that NO ONE have sex. But if you cannot be responsible for the potential consequences of sexual intercourse, then you should not engage in sexual intercourse. But that's the thing, you can. He just doesn't want to accept it because it's against completely outdated rules written in a book that was altered to supress people. you're rude and offensive beyond words He was as well. I don't see a reason to hold back. what you are saying is blasphemic, you are insulting a over 2000 year old tradition that billions of people follow with their heart and soul, because someone asked you to use your brain.
People who take blasphemy seriously have imo a problem. I think they're shaken in their "oh-so-solid-because-it-s-2000-year-old" conviction and they don't like that.
Well guess what, it's not because it's old that's it's necessarily good... And secondly, if someone say something "blasphemic", it means they probably don't believe in the same things you believe in. Which is the point of "believing". You can't convince on this topic. And especially not by a "It's 2000 years old so it's true" argument. Thus why not considering blasphemy as "he doesn't believe, so it's fine".
And is it bad that people use their brain ?
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