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On April 26 2018 05:35 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 05:28 LegalLord wrote:
Obama can certainly take credit for the fact that NK developed its nuclear capabilities under his watch, and that NK acquired ICBM technology as that administration was boasting about how far NK was from being able to deliver their nukes anywhere near the US. And for the fact that escalating measures failed to reverse that approach. But for being able to “get results” years after the end of that presidency after Trump is well into his term? Well either you’re willing to give Bush credit for taking out Bin Laden (with Obama being in that seat at the right time) or you’re just selectively supporting who you like and failing to give credit where it is due. I don't know where to start with this. I'm not selectively supporting one over the other.
Doesn't look to be the case.
On April 26 2018 05:38 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 05:28 LegalLord wrote:
Obama can certainly take credit for the fact that NK developed its nuclear capabilities under his watch, and that NK acquired ICBM technology as that administration was boasting about how far NK was from being able to deliver their nukes anywhere near the US. And for the fact that escalating measures failed to reverse that approach. But for being able to “get results” years after the end of that presidency after Trump is well into his term? Well either you’re willing to give Bush credit for taking out Bin Laden (with Obama being in that seat at the right time) or you’re just selectively supporting who you like and failing to give credit where it is due. I don't think there was ever a way for Obama to stop NK from getting nukes. So long as missiles are pointed at Seoul and China keeps the lights on, the only option was military force against China while sacrificing Seoul. Sometimes you're in checkmate. NK could only have been stopped a really long time ago. Once NK had SK by the nuts, the game was over. In your eyes, what should Obama have done?
Stopping nuclear developments? It would have been tough, but a more critical eye on Pakistan (incidentally also complicit in the Bin Laden matter and rightfully called "the most dangerous country in the world") and willingness to be more willing to make compromises to make pressure on NK more effective would have made it more possible. Tough to say it would have worked because NK's desire for nukes has proven to be far more deliberate and systematic than most would give it credit for, but it might have worked.
Stopping the development of ICBM technology, which turned the rogue threat of nuking SK into "most dangerous country in the world" territory on par with Pakistan? Damn straight, that's a failure of the administration to see what was coming. All the predictions from the Obama folks were that there was plenty of time, that NK's missiles are nbd, so on and so forth. I guess they didn't count on a repeat attempt to acquire technology from a failing Ukrainian rocket company by NK when that might be the most obvious potential source imaginable for nuclear weapons. Seems to have happened around 2016 so that falls well into Obama's term, unlike nuclear technology which is a bit of a gray area and you could perhaps give him some leeway.
Trump's admin seems to have salvaged a bad situation competently, but it's still ICBM-equipped NK and that's not going to change at this point.
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The underlying theme in your suggestions is more war. Tactical hits (ground or air) on critical assets. Not possible.
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On April 26 2018 06:29 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
The underlying theme in your suggestions is more war.
Quite the opposite. Though I'm curious why you think it to be so.
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After all the sanctions and restrictions placed on NK by the previous admin, what do you think was the last option? You cannot ignore the humanitarian issues that plague that country. With China backing them, however reluctantly, they would have kept going. With this testing site blunder, they're forced to deal with SK, Japan, and the US.
There was no way to stop Ukraine from shipping those parts in exchange for whatever they got. And if you cross into Russia to do so, then there's war more than likely. Talking with them only got so far and with China not doing much of anything to get NK to cooperate, war was the only option left if you wanted to rid them of Nukes.
Re: Pakistan and their complicit behavior regarding bin laden and nukes, another sovereign nation that we couldn't do much about besides sanctions unless the entire ME got behind it and forced their hand to cooperate as well.
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On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
After all the sanctions and restrictions placed on NK by the previous admin, what do you think was the last option? You cannot ignore the humanitarian issues that plague that country. With China backing them, however reluctantly, they would have kept going. With this testing site blunder, they're forced to deal with SK, Japan, and the US.
China isn't exactly backing them. More, they're willing to tolerate NK due to how suspicious they are of US' intentions in the reason. Obama gave them every reason to continue in that regard.
On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
There was no way to stop Ukraine from shipping those parts in exchange for whatever they got.
No way to stop a rogue, desperate bunch of engineers or managers from shipping engines to the other side of the world, as is the current most viable narrative out of all the ones explored? More importantly, no way to predict that this might happen? Seems very much like the possibility of this happening wasn't well-explored, much less specific measures against specific high-risk agents.
On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
And if you cross into Russia to do so, then there's war more than likely.
No indication that that actually happened, besides dmcd saying so. Of all the stories on the topic not one that I could find suggests using Russian railways as the means (which seems like just about the worst way to transport it anyways given that it goes through a war zone and more than enough border checks to easily be found out). Most likely transported by plane, considering that a plane could make the trip, that Ukraine used to be an important player in the cargo aircraft industry, and that that's a reasonably covert way to make a delivery. IIRC the last time Ukrainians tried to sell to NK they used a plane but were stopped just short of boarding.
NYT and this direct report are actual sources, in case anyone here is interested.
On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Talking with them only got so far and with China not doing much of anything to get NK to cooperate, war was the only option left if you wanted to rid them of Nukes.
Jumping to conclusions and/or putting words in my mouth.
On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Re: Pakistan and their complicit behavior regarding bin laden and nukes, another sovereign nation that we couldn't do much about besides sanctions unless the entire ME got behind it and forced their hand to cooperate as well.
Eh. I'm seeing a theme of "there was no possible way things could have gone better" in trying to justify why so many things Obama bungled were actually bungled. No way to do more to NK without war, no way to make Pakistan not be involved in shitty backstabbing behavior, so on and so forth. Looks more like failures than "no possible solution." Very much looks like selectively giving Obama all the credit while handwaving away all of his clear fuckups in the matter.
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United States24779 Posts
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way.
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On April 26 2018 07:21 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
After all the sanctions and restrictions placed on NK by the previous admin, what do you think was the last option? You cannot ignore the humanitarian issues that plague that country. With China backing them, however reluctantly, they would have kept going. With this testing site blunder, they're forced to deal with SK, Japan, and the US. China isn't exactly backing them. More, they're willing to tolerate NK due to how suspicious they are of US' intentions in the reason. Obama gave them every reason to continue in that regard. Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
There was no way to stop Ukraine from shipping those parts in exchange for whatever they got. No way to stop a rogue, desperate bunch of engineers or managers from shipping engines to the other side of the world, as is the current most viable narrative out of all the ones explored? More importantly, no way to predict that this might happen? Seems very much like the possibility of this happening wasn't well-explored, much less specific measures against specific high-risk agents. Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
And if you cross into Russia to do so, then there's war more than likely. No indication that that actually happened, besides dmcd saying so. Of all the stories on the topic not one that I could find suggests using Russian railways as the means (which seems like just about the worst way to transport it anyways given that it goes through a war zone and more than enough border checks to easily be found out). Most likely transported by plane, considering that a plane could make the trip, that Ukraine used to be an important player in the cargo aircraft industry, and that that's a reasonably covert way to make a delivery. IIRC the last time Ukrainians tried to sell to NK they used a plane but were stopped just short of boarding. NYT and this direct report are actual sources, in case anyone here is interested. Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Talking with them only got so far and with China not doing much of anything to get NK to cooperate, war was the only option left if you wanted to rid them of Nukes. Jumping to conclusions and/or putting words in my mouth. Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 06:43 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Re: Pakistan and their complicit behavior regarding bin laden and nukes, another sovereign nation that we couldn't do much about besides sanctions unless the entire ME got behind it and forced their hand to cooperate as well. Eh. I'm seeing a theme of "there was no possible way things could have gone better" in trying to justify why so many things Obama bungled were actually bungled. No way to do more to NK without war, no way to make Pakistan not be involved in shitty backstabbing behavior, so on and so forth. Looks more like failures than "no possible solution." Very much looks like selectively giving Obama all the credit while handwaving away all of his clear fuckups in the matter.
I've called Obama out on multiple issues I've felt he could have handled better. But while you try to discredit and refute what I've stated, you've proffered no alternatives yourself. For the most part, what they did short of preemptive strikes were tried and did not succeed as far as they wanted them to go. Again, there is only so much you can do without causing a military standoff with China and then Russia for interfering there. The same with the Iran deal. Iran got a good deal and the world at large save a few, were actually okay with how it turned out. But no, Obama should have parachuted into NK and sat down to have a heart to heart.
China isn't backing them? The same way Japan is a protectorate of the US, NK is to China. And how did Obama give them a reason to be suspicious? By not wanting Chinese influence all over the region, subverting economies with shady business practices and using military might to get what they want? If we remove ourselves from the world stage, Crimea is the result. Why would you think that this was/is a sound strategy?
And again, without United Nations approval of actions, as you've seen in the past, unilateral actions against actors of nations or nations themselves will get a lot of shit thrown your way. Think this through a bit more and try to see it from a different perspective than just wanting to shit on everything Obama did. He made his fair share of mistakes in office, but stopping NK from getting nukes isn't something you can berate him over for not accomplishing. Political and business just doesn't operate in that way.
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On April 26 2018 07:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I've called Obama out on multiple issues I've felt he could have handled better.
I've seen more apologism than anything else, honestly. Especially here. In any case, I don't think this is going anywhere, and I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say, so I'll just leave it at that.
On April 26 2018 07:22 micronesia wrote:
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way.
From what I saw this looks like about as bad as a bungled mining operation leading to spills in the immediate area and in nearby water routes. That could be fairly bad, largely localized but not entirely, and probably something you need to handle with care. They would be right to want to ask for help and to make concessions to stop it. But it's also not an immediate total catastrophe either.
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On April 26 2018 07:22 micronesia wrote:
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way.
I'll have to read more about it but I would hope they treat it some urgency. We don't need another Fukushima on our hands.
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United States24779 Posts
It's not really comparable to Fukushima. The leftover material is not right on the edge of the ocean, there is no strong motive force to migrate large amounts of fallout, and the source term is quite different.
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A better comparison is this spill with some amount of radioactive components.
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United States44122 Posts
On April 26 2018 04:07 LegalLord wrote:
Sounds like selective attribution of credit to me. Everything good wasn't Trump's doing, everything bad was. I suppose based on precedent, this shouldn't be much of a surprise. But nevertheless, the progress made under Trump definitely represents a remarkable reversal to earlier years of degrading relations, and "I bet he's going to find a way to fuck it up" is disingenuous as hell.
This is called post hoc ergo propter hoc.
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On April 26 2018 07:46 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 07:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I've called Obama out on multiple issues I've felt he could have handled better. I've seen more apologism than anything else, honestly. Especially here. In any case, I don't think this is going anywhere, and I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say, so I'll just leave it at that.Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 07:22 micronesia wrote:
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way. From what I saw this looks like about as bad as a bungled mining operation leading to spills in the immediate area and in nearby water routes. That could be fairly bad, largely localized but not entirely, and probably something you need to handle with care. They would be right to want to ask for help and to make concessions to stop it. But it's also not an immediate total catastrophe either.
No, I don't get what you're saying because you aren't saying a fucking thing. Mohdoo asked and you gave the weakest fucking examples. Like in the NASA thread and in US poli, you give vague fucking answers and expect people to read between the lines. I get that you expected more from Obama and was let down. But dude, come the hell on. What more could he have done to stop NK from getting nukes? What has trump done, himself or his admin, to get Kim to the table?
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On April 26 2018 13:44 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 07:46 LegalLord wrote:On April 26 2018 07:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I've called Obama out on multiple issues I've felt he could have handled better. I've seen more apologism than anything else, honestly. Especially here. In any case, I don't think this is going anywhere, and I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say, so I'll just leave it at that.On April 26 2018 07:22 micronesia wrote:
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way. From what I saw this looks like about as bad as a bungled mining operation leading to spills in the immediate area and in nearby water routes. That could be fairly bad, largely localized but not entirely, and probably something you need to handle with care. They would be right to want to ask for help and to make concessions to stop it. But it's also not an immediate total catastrophe either. No, I don't get what you're saying because you aren't saying a fucking thing. Mohdoo asked and you gave the weakest fucking examples. Like in the NASA thread and in US poli, you give vague fucking answers and expect people to read between the lines. I get that you expected more from Obama and was let down. But dude, come the hell on. What more could he have done to stop NK from getting nukes? What has trump done, himself or his admin, to get Kim to the table?
I had something longer written up, but given that this seems to be primarily airing grudges, again, I'll be rather succinct instead:
The thing Obama failed to do that would have led to a better result is to develop cooperative relations with nations that could have helped defuse the threat if they were inclined to cooperate, and to have the foresight to see how an influx of foreign technology could make the problem a lot worse, a lot faster. No such solution is perfect or without tradeoffs, but given that we have the once preventable reality that a rogue nation has nuclear ICBMs, using the "there's nothing that could have been done" defense to try to exonerate Obama at every turn (and trying to strawman every point into "nah the only other option is war") is disingenuous as fuck.
That's the last I will say - I'm not seeing any desire for a real discussion from your end. But in case you wanted a real answer, I provide the above as an attempt at clarifying my main point.
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On April 26 2018 14:34 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 13:44 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On April 26 2018 07:46 LegalLord wrote:On April 26 2018 07:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I've called Obama out on multiple issues I've felt he could have handled better. I've seen more apologism than anything else, honestly. Especially here. In any case, I don't think this is going anywhere, and I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say, so I'll just leave it at that.On April 26 2018 07:22 micronesia wrote:
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way. From what I saw this looks like about as bad as a bungled mining operation leading to spills in the immediate area and in nearby water routes. That could be fairly bad, largely localized but not entirely, and probably something you need to handle with care. They would be right to want to ask for help and to make concessions to stop it. But it's also not an immediate total catastrophe either. No, I don't get what you're saying because you aren't saying a fucking thing. Mohdoo asked and you gave the weakest fucking examples. Like in the NASA thread and in US poli, you give vague fucking answers and expect people to read between the lines. I get that you expected more from Obama and was let down. But dude, come the hell on. What more could he have done to stop NK from getting nukes? What has trump done, himself or his admin, to get Kim to the table? I had something longer written up, but given that this seems to be primarily airing grudges, again, I'll be rather succinct instead: The thing Obama failed to do that would have led to a better result is to develop cooperative relations with nations that could have helped defuse the threat if they were inclined to cooperate, and to have the foresight to see how an influx of foreign technology could make the problem a lot worse, a lot faster. No such solution is perfect or without tradeoffs, but given that we have the once preventable reality that a rogue nation has nuclear ICBMs, using the "there's nothing that could have been done" defense to try to exonerate Obama at every turn (and trying to strawman every point into "nah the only other option is war") is disingenuous as fuck. That's the last I will say - I'm not seeing any desire for a real discussion from your end. But in case you wanted a real answer, I provide the above as an attempt at clarifying my main point.
Emphasis mine. Again. What nations? What were the options, specifically? What has trump or his admin done that got us here?
I'm not exonerating Obama. Stop that. I'm saying you can't blame him for where we are. You think the UN or USA should just throw money at Kim and tell him to stop? Give him the resources he needs to feed his people or to help introduce cleaner, healthier technology besides farming with literal human shit? Open the economy somewhat to allow foreign aid and workers to get the people on the right track to joining the rest of the modern world? Should SK bend over and say, "Hey, we don't want a war or to cause any harm to either of our people. You can be the rulers of a unified Korea, just give up the nukes." ? Is that what you're saying?
Or are you saying that Obama should have seen into the future where NK would develop ICBMs that could "potentially" reach the continental US and have acted accordingly (read: militarily), all the while risking "worsening" relations with China? (no US company is barred from dealing with China and they will continue to do so when the economy is basically US ver 2.)
You're obvious dislike for Obama is apparent and known. I'm asking, what has trump and his admin done to get us this close to a peace deal with NK? Answer that and I'll drop it. Explain to me, how Obama could have essentially forced sovereign nations to get NK to the table. Explain to me, how short of anything military that wasn't already tried, would have worked.
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Restroom is serious business for the GREAT LEADER. :D
Daily NK, a South Korean website focusing on North Korea news, reported in 2015 that "the restrooms are not only in Kim Jong Un's personal train but whatever small or midsize cars he is traveling with and even in special vehicles that are designed for mountainous terrain or snow."
Lee Yun-keol, who worked in a North Korean Guard Command unit before coming to South Korea in 2005, told The Washington Post that "the leader's excretions contain information about his health status so they can't be left behind."
Kim's urine and fecal matter are routinely tested to check for illnesses and other health indicators, according to Daily NK.
Source: http://uk.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-bring-his-own-toilet-to-korea-summit-2018-4
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On April 27 2018 06:18 sc-darkness wrote:Restroom is serious business for the GREAT LEADER. :D Show nested quote +
Daily NK, a South Korean website focusing on North Korea news, reported in 2015 that "the restrooms are not only in Kim Jong Un's personal train but whatever small or midsize cars he is traveling with and even in special vehicles that are designed for mountainous terrain or snow."
Show nested quote +
Lee Yun-keol, who worked in a North Korean Guard Command unit before coming to South Korea in 2005, told The Washington Post that "the leader's excretions contain information about his health status so they can't be left behind."
Kim's urine and fecal matter are routinely tested to check for illnesses and other health indicators, according to Daily NK.
Source: http://uk.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-bring-his-own-toilet-to-korea-summit-2018-4
Kim Jong Il did the same thing in his trips to China.
to avoid the enemy to take the feces and analyze them and find diseases
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If there are economic shortages forcing them to scale down their ambitious transport vehicles, will they have to resort to diapers?
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On April 26 2018 13:44 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2018 07:46 LegalLord wrote:On April 26 2018 07:38 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I've called Obama out on multiple issues I've felt he could have handled better. I've seen more apologism than anything else, honestly. Especially here. In any case, I don't think this is going anywhere, and I don't think you're getting what I'm trying to say, so I'll just leave it at that.On April 26 2018 07:22 micronesia wrote:
If the gossip about the NK nuclear test sight collapsing is true, and there is a significant risk of large uncontrolled releases of radioactivity from the test sight, then I think some reputable scientific organizations need to publicly analyze the risk and put it into perspective. While I wouldn't want to live next door to that test sight, the US and the USSR both detonated quite a few nuclear bombs in the open atmosphere over the years. At least in this case, the short to medium lived isotopes have had a chance to decay away due to the duration since the previous underground weapons tests in NK.
The little bit of coverage I've read about this so far seems to have appropriately bounded the immediate 'danger' to nearby neighboring countries and hasn't been egregious. Still, NK can't afford to piss of China by sending nontrivial quantities of strontium-90 and cesium-137 their way. From what I saw this looks like about as bad as a bungled mining operation leading to spills in the immediate area and in nearby water routes. That could be fairly bad, largely localized but not entirely, and probably something you need to handle with care. They would be right to want to ask for help and to make concessions to stop it. But it's also not an immediate total catastrophe either. No, I don't get what you're saying because you aren't saying a fucking thing. Mohdoo asked and you gave the weakest fucking examples. Like in the NASA thread and in US poli, you give vague fucking answers and expect people to read between the lines. I get that you expected more from Obama and was let down. But dude, come the hell on. What more could he have done to stop NK from getting nukes? What has trump done, himself or his admin, to get Kim to the table?
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/26/world/korea-summit-kang-kyung-wha-amanpour-intl/index.html
"Clearly, credit goes to President Trump," Kang told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in Seoul. "He's been determined to come to grips with this from day one."
Kang told Amanpour that the détente was unexpected. "I think we're all surprised. Obviously pleasantly surprised. I think by all indications we are headed towards a very successful summit between my president and Chairman Kim tomorrow."
She said that Moon's determination also played a role in the thaw. In her analysis, the combination of tough rhetoric and economic and travel sanctions were instrumental.
President Trump's rhetoric, of course, has shifted on North Korea as a summit became a more real possibility.
In August, he threatened "fire and fury like the world has never seen." In September, he said "Rocket Man is on a suicide mission." This week, he said that Kim Jong-un had been "very open and I think very honorable."
Kang admitted Presidents Moon and Trump have at times had "different messaging," but insisted that they maintained close consultations.
It has been made clear. He is the President of Peace. Four more years! Four more years!
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On April 27 2018 06:33 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2018 06:18 sc-darkness wrote:Restroom is serious business for the GREAT LEADER. :D
Daily NK, a South Korean website focusing on North Korea news, reported in 2015 that "the restrooms are not only in Kim Jong Un's personal train but whatever small or midsize cars he is traveling with and even in special vehicles that are designed for mountainous terrain or snow."
Lee Yun-keol, who worked in a North Korean Guard Command unit before coming to South Korea in 2005, told The Washington Post that "the leader's excretions contain information about his health status so they can't be left behind."
Kim's urine and fecal matter are routinely tested to check for illnesses and other health indicators, according to Daily NK.
Source: http://uk.businessinsider.com/kim-jong-un-bring-his-own-toilet-to-korea-summit-2018-4 Kim Jong Il did the same thing in his trips to China. to avoid the enemy to take the feces and analyze them and find diseases
Same thing is done in a way with Western leaders, US presidents in trips abroad the glasses they they drink from is taken and destroyed.
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EPT
