On December 29 2012 06:29 teapoted wrote: OOT is a fine game, but I never thought of it as much more than other Nintendo Games. And in terms of pure fun It's not even close to one of my favorite Nintendo games. I understand that there's a lot of nostalgia there for some but a lot of it to me seems like hive-mind hype. Not that people don't love the game, but everyone in a society loves it so everyone blows it up and holds it to a mythical standard. Where I lived in my childhood (Sweden/Cyprus), no one held it to an especially high regard, everyone was more multi-player oriented. People thought it was good, liked the music, but that's where it stopped. People weren't buying Nintendo magazines and getting obsessed about it.
On the other hand Warcraft 3 was a culture defining game for me. Anyone who spent a lot of time in LAN cafes during it's peak probably knows what I mean by this. It was so much more than just 'a' game. And that's not even counting how exciting the game was on a competitive level (Which I don't care if people think it's an inferior RTS, I still had more fun watching and talking about it), or the quality of the storyline and the characters, which are more memorable than any other RTS. It is a game which popularized and is responsible for multiple genres.
Greykarn said a couple of weeks ago the most played game at Inferno Online (biggest LAN cafe in Stockholm) is still Warcraft 3.
For me, it's incomparable. Warcraft 3 vs Half-Life might be a fair fight, if all of Half-Life's spawns are included.
Even though you say War3 has popularized multiple genres, I don't even think that's true. DotA needs to be left out of this discussion as that is its own game.
Why? DotA has many many many things directly from WC3. Items, the way you get XP, the attack animations, the general style (fantasy-ish), day/night, trees, high ground, many abilities are 1:1 copies from WC3 (like Bladestorm, Windwalk, Hex etc. etc). It's actually ridiculous that it was legally possible for DotA 2 to even be made by another company.
Because DotA is a different game and got it's own vote.
On December 29 2012 05:10 sc4k wrote: A quick message to everyone who voted WC3 over OoT...I hate you. That is all.
I hate you!
Warcraft 3 was and remains superiority in gameplay, music, and story.
It also has multiplayer!
Uh, music, no. Story...are you on crack?! Gameplay, meh they are completely different games.
WC3 is a good RTS that isn't as good as BW or AoE 2. OoT has no comparison, it is one of the biggest 'steps forward' in gaming that's ever been made. THe sublime transition to 3d perfectly executed, a long and absorbing adventure. As someone who played equal time in WC3 and OoT, there is no way in my right mind I could justify picking WC3.
you don't like wc3 music? wtf? i have the sound track because it was so good, only a couple of other games have had better sound tracks (original C&C comes to mind)
If I have to choose between OOT and Warcraft 3 im going with War3. I dont think either one are on my top 5 of favorite ever (though OOT might be in top10) but theres just something about that game that made it amazing. I would especially say that once Master Quest was available and added some much needed complexity to dungeons which helped make it a flawless game.
I remember being completely in awe the first time i stepped out of korkiri forest into Hyrule and at that point realised it wasnt just another Zelda game but this was going to be awesome. The way the game set the stage in the first 3 areas having us explore the world and get to know people only to truly raise the stakes after the time jump was some of the best storytelling I have probably ever seen in a game.
There were things in it that other Zelda's did better (I still think Majora's Mask had the most fun set-up of side quests and the dungeons typically have done nothing but get better) but none of the Zelda's have truly captured the story that OOT managed to. 15 years later that might be the storyline I am most interested in seeing reach its conclusion since due to Majora's Mask it sort of ended on a cliffhanger.
WC3 because the singleplayer was pretty damn good but really the MP WAS GODLIKE. I have never had more fun in a game than all the custom maps from when the game was in its younger stage (first 3 years). DoTA came and killed the UMS scene.
I think people who missed OoT by being too young when it was first released are bound to say WC3. They never experienced the magic of OoT because they were too young and then, when they played it it was essentially 'old news' and an 'old game'. And because it wasn't multiplayer and therefore perpetuated by a 'scene', there was no encouragement to see the virtues of it. That's the only explanation I can give for Deus Ex not being as popular as it should be. It is a *better* game than the competition but it doesn't get the props because people see it as an 'old game'.
I think people who were the right age for OoT and also for WC3 are the best barometers of the contest. People who experienced the magic of both games and were around at the right time to be absorbed by them. I spent many hours perfecting my orc strategies, plowing through the WC3 campaign. I even preferred WC to starcraft at the time. But now I see the error of my ways. I was introduced to AoE II AoC after having gone through WC3 for a few years and realised that AoE was a better game and much deeper. Then I strangely took the route of getting into AoE3 before getting into BW again and realising how much better it was than WC3. Of course, what strikes me here is that this trip never happened with OoT. It always was a great game and nothing ever came that was better than it in its genre. The villain is timeless, the music is timeless, the characters are great, the length of the story is great, the hidden quests are great, the sidequests like going fishing are great, the horse riding was revolutionary and great, shooting your bow was great, playing your ocarina was boss. Not to mention it was one of the most revolutionary steps in graphics ever made in gaming. It was Crysis on crack when compared to its 1998 competition. Pure devotion to visual excellence.
I think it's possible to say that OoT had an incredible effect on 3d games and pushed the bar up. I believe, conversely, that games like WC3 pushed the bar down. RTS gaming was better and still is better in the days when it was AoE 2, BW, Red Alert, Total Annihilation. It doesn't help that I also think DotA is a terrible betrayal of the RTS genre, giving people an easy way out of the challenge of RTS games (which is the most fun element for me...) and that WoW is the endtimes of gaming, and therefore, for my money, WC3 goes down in my estimation when rated for the games which it spawned.
By the way just to add, I'm not trying to condescend anyone who was the 'right age' to enjoy both games properly and prefers WC3, there are plenty of reasons to prefer WC3, just none that move me in any way.
On December 29 2012 17:00 sc4k wrote: Not to mention it was one of the most revolutionary steps in graphics ever made in gaming. It was Crysis on crack when compared to its 1998 competition. Pure devotion to visual excellence.
OoT was nothing special visually compared to PC games 1998.
There was a huge step made in graphics 1998 - by Unreal.
I'm kind of glad a Warcraft game is going to win the voting, on a Starcraft forum, so we can just invalidate this entire poll and pretend it never existed.
On December 28 2012 07:48 Diminisherqc wrote: rpg bracket is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen ff6 and ff7 and chorno trigger losing to pokemon and skyrim .. i want to fricking throw up how this disgust me .Is the average age of tl poster around 15 . c mon im f pissed ! lol
bro skyrim is just a better game
the graphics, the gameplay, the writing and the music all outclass the likes of ff and chrono trigger
u gotta let go
Skyrim is a shitty game. Sure the world is beautiful, unfortunately it is full of epic loot such as rusty buckets and wooden spoons. Not much else. Plus, the fighting system is just shit.
On December 28 2012 07:48 Diminisherqc wrote: rpg bracket is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen ff6 and ff7 and chorno trigger losing to pokemon and skyrim .. i want to fricking throw up how this disgust me .Is the average age of tl poster around 15 . c mon im f pissed ! lol
bro skyrim is just a better game
the graphics, the gameplay, the writing and the music all outclass the likes of ff and chrono trigger
u gotta let go
Skyrim is a shitty game. Sure the world is beautiful, unfortunately it is full of epic loot such as rusty buckets and wooden spoons. Not much else. Plus, the fighting system is just shit.
Yeah I forgot I really wanted to reply to this horrific post. Out of all the things that have made me want to vomit my guts out in this thread this is the worst. You are actually getting someone saying that Skyrim has better music than NOBUO UEMATSU. And then 'the gameplay'...what the hell...ff and chrono trigger are the greatest JRPG games ever. Skyrim doesn't even really do anything 'gameplay' wise that wasn't already done by Oblivion. It's just an incremental improvement but in terms of the sword fighting, it's pathetically one dimensional. Great game but it's not great because of the gameplay. My only guess is that Froob is like 17 or something. Seriously 'bro' buy a copy of Baldur's Gate II and educate yourself as to what constitutes good gameplay in a sword and shields RPG.
On December 29 2012 17:00 sc4k wrote: Not to mention it was one of the most revolutionary steps in graphics ever made in gaming. It was Crysis on crack when compared to its 1998 competition. Pure devotion to visual excellence.
OoT was nothing special visually compared to PC games 1998. There was a huge step made in graphics 1998 - by Unreal.
No way, OoT was more special visually than any PC game in 1998 and way better than Unreal and Half Life, which both had a lot of flat edges and were basically less full.
I think this Poll didnt work as intended. Why do you think WC3 TFT is in the finals because its one of the best games ever or because this is a Starcraft forum with Sc1 and SC2 banned from the poll and wc3 as the only remaining predecessor?
On December 29 2012 21:05 Yrr wrote: I think this Poll didnt work as intended. Why do you think WC3 TFT is in the finals because its one of the best games ever or because this is a Starcraft forum with Sc1 and SC2 banned from the poll and wc3 as the only remaining predecessor?
It is in the pool because of its UMS scene. Disregarding DotA which I played for 5 years it had a lot of other great UMS games that were in some cases better than games that people took money for.
Endless bickering. Gotta love it. OoT voters who say the WC3 voters are probably too young, get real. I doubt OoT would even have made it this far if we didn't have any 'young' people vote.
On December 29 2012 17:00 sc4k wrote: Not to mention it was one of the most revolutionary steps in graphics ever made in gaming. It was Crysis on crack when compared to its 1998 competition. Pure devotion to visual excellence.
OoT was nothing special visually compared to PC games 1998.
There was a huge step made in graphics 1998 - by Unreal.
i thought unreal came out in 97? maybe my memory is fuzzy here Still if we are talking about n64 anyone ever play starcraft 64? they did the best with what they had, wasn't too bad considering...
EPT
