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On January 22 2013 05:19 Abraxas514 wrote:So Montreal accepts MANY immigrants per year. http://www.micc.gouv.qc.ca/publications/fr/recherches-statistiques/FICHE_syn_an2011.pdf is your source (sorry I didn't find the english version, it may or may not exist). Many of these immigrants move to toronto, ottowa or vancouver, for many different reasons besides language. In my opinion it's for the following reasons: TO because of job opportunities, ottowa for higher level jobs/research/get away from french laws without going too far from montreal, and vancouver for it's easy winters/good job market and hockey team?
According to the source you provided, "Many of these immigrants move to ...." is 15% (85% have stayed in Quebec). Is it as abnormal as your trying to make it seems when you consider only 63% say they speak French ? (If I weren't speaking the local language I would be more inclined to migrate elsewhere... laws or not. Also there are many reason to migrate anyway).
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It's already been pointed out, but I just want to emphasize that the PQ got elected mostly as a strategic vote to get the piece of shit that was the PLQ out of there. Many people (including myself) don't really support their separatist/language agenda even though we voted for them.
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Quebec not joining generic drug deal
Last month, Wall announced the provinces would bulk buy six widely used generic drugs. He suggested the initiative could save provincial and territorial drug plans up to $100 million once it is fully implemented. Quebec was the only province to say it would not take part.
Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall says it's not surprising that Quebec has pulled out of a national health-care committee set up by the provinces.
Nor will it hinder further progress, said Wall, who chairs the group with Prince Edward Island Premier Robert Ghiz.
"As of late, Quebec has been more of a distraction at this table than a constructive partner," Wall said Tuesday in an email released to The Canadian Press by his office.
"We have been making significant progress in areas like joint purchase of generic drugs, sharing best practices, bending health-care cost curves and improving patient care without a lot of input from Quebec."
The premier was not available for further comment.
Quebec left to 'concentrate on own priorities'
Quebec's decision to pull out of the group was made public Monday. It had been quietly announced in a letter dated Jan. 11 and signed by Health Minister Rejean Hebert and Intergovernmental Affairs Minister Alexandre Cloutier. Quebec said it intended to concentrate on its own priorities.
I'm not 100% sure if this is solely PQ related or some kind of long standing issue between quebec's leadership and canadian boards. But seeing how our healthcare budget got nerfed, Quebec would be apt to find as many cost-saving measures as possible, and buying drugs on a larger scale seems to be a sensible way to save a few million.
When I see articles like this I think "what ARE these people doing?"
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Marois make sovereignty push despite falling poll/7945508/story.html
“We have been on the defensive since the ’95 referendum,” Marois said at the close of a weekend PQ meeting, where an action plan was hatched to revive the independence debate.
“From now on we are on the offensive,” she said.
A Léger Marketing poll, for the Gazette and Le Devoir, conducted Feb. 5, 6, found support for sovereignty has dropped to 37 per cent from 43 per cent a year earlier.
Marois said with 90,000 members and its secret weapon — “militancy,”
With a minority government, she repeated, she cannot call a referendum now, so her government intends to pursue an approach called “sovereignist governance.”
That means seeking all powers granted Quebec under the existing Canadian constitution.
No no no no no. Anti-Federalism is on the drop in Quebec. The majority of french canadians don't want this. Why the hell is Marois continuing with this unpopular bullshit? The bottom line here is the pequists are burning more and more money that was cut from hospitals and universities in order to fund this whole project. She hopes to win a majority next election, ya right.
In other news, about tuition:
In a tweet, ASSÉ, the Association pour la solidarité syndicale étudiante, which has called for free tuition, replied to the premier.
“The freeze on tuition fees its not indexing. Pauline Marois should open a dictionary!”
Morons. Fucking moron liberal art undergraduate losers who don't understand the first thing about exonomics, job markets, taxes etc. Anyone who doesn't know that money value is relative to the current year doesn't know the first thing about economics and should go shoot themselves in the foot every time they decide to attend education summits and write letters.
User was temp banned for this post.
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So the habs are #1 on the ladder, city hall is shut down while provincial cops raid every single office, but do you know what makes news in montreal?
http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/02/19/pastas-interdites-dans-un-resto-italien
For those that don't read french:
A very popular upscale Italian restaurant/club-lounge is getting harassed by the OLF. Know why? The word "Pasta" on the menu.
Quelle est la prochaine étape pour Massimo Lecas? «C’est entre les mains de mes avocats, m’a-t-il répondu. Jusqu’ici, ça m’a déjà coûté 4500 $ de frais. Le Buona Notte existe depuis 22 ans et c’est la première fois qu’on se fait dire que notre menu est trop «italien».
Basic translation: What's the next step for (the owner)? "It's in the hands of my lawyers, but up until now it's costed me 4500$ of lawyer fees. We've existed for 22 years, and this is the first time our menu was deemed too "Italian".
... Gotta applaud the PQ for giving these guys a nice fat budget instead of my engineering school.
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On February 21 2013 01:16 Abraxas514 wrote:So the habs are #1 on the ladder, city hall is shut down while provincial cops raid every single office, but do you know what makes news in montreal? http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/02/19/pastas-interdites-dans-un-resto-italienFor those that don't read french: A very popular upscale Italian restaurant/club-lounge is getting harassed by the OLF. Know why? The word "Pasta" on the menu. Show nested quote +Quelle est la prochaine étape pour Massimo Lecas? «C’est entre les mains de mes avocats, m’a-t-il répondu. Jusqu’ici, ça m’a déjà coûté 4500 $ de frais. Le Buona Notte existe depuis 22 ans et c’est la première fois qu’on se fait dire que notre menu est trop «italien». Basic translation: What's the next step for (the owner)? "It's in the hands of my lawyers, but up until now it's costed me 4500$ of lawyer fees. We've existed for 22 years, and this is the first time our menu was deemed too "Italian". ... Gotta applaud the PQ for giving these guys a nice fat budget instead of my engineering school.
i cant believe this thread hasnt been closed, its full of prejudice, misunderstanding of the quebec situant and full of obnoxious insults towards québécois. journaldemontreal is the least recognized journalistic source, known for its lack of fact accuracy and strong rightwing ideology bias.
according to UN charts of rights Bill101 is totaly legit and in no possible case can be opressive towards the english pop of quebec. I can give y'all hundreds of scientifically recognized articles of linguists, socio-linguists ethnolinguistics that cleary demonstrate the necessity of institutionalizing and politizing the language in order to maintain culture and linguistical variety. bill101 is the perect example of saving french in northamerica. mods pease close this thread
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 21 2013 01:27 crazyweasel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 01:16 Abraxas514 wrote:So the habs are #1 on the ladder, city hall is shut down while provincial cops raid every single office, but do you know what makes news in montreal? http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/02/19/pastas-interdites-dans-un-resto-italienFor those that don't read french: A very popular upscale Italian restaurant/club-lounge is getting harassed by the OLF. Know why? The word "Pasta" on the menu. Quelle est la prochaine étape pour Massimo Lecas? «C’est entre les mains de mes avocats, m’a-t-il répondu. Jusqu’ici, ça m’a déjà coûté 4500 $ de frais. Le Buona Notte existe depuis 22 ans et c’est la première fois qu’on se fait dire que notre menu est trop «italien». Basic translation: What's the next step for (the owner)? "It's in the hands of my lawyers, but up until now it's costed me 4500$ of lawyer fees. We've existed for 22 years, and this is the first time our menu was deemed too "Italian". ... Gotta applaud the PQ for giving these guys a nice fat budget instead of my engineering school.
i cant believe this thread hasnt been closed, its full of prejudice, misunderstanding of the quebec situant and full of obnoxious insults towards québécois. journaldemontreal is the least recognized journalistic source, known for its lack of fact accuracy and strong rightwing ideology bias.
according to UN charts of rights Bill101 is totaly legit and in no possible case can be opressive towards the english pop of quebec. I can give y'all hundreds of scientifically recognized articles of linguists, socio-linguists ethnolinguistics that cleary demonstrate the necessity of institutionalizing and politizing the language in order to maintain culture and linguistical variety. bill101 is the perect example of saving french in northamerica. mods pease close this thread
pretty much what I think everytime this fucking thread pops up again and again. Everyone knows that Journal de Montreal is pure b.s. btw.
I agree with the fact that this thread is shit and should be closed because of all the prejudice and inaccuracies that it carries.
I dont want to get into a backseat modding attitude but damnit, most of the things in that thread are false/biased or the result of misunderstanding of the context...
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If you must use legislation to keep your heritage alive, you've already failed. That's my opinion on the subject.
It doesn't matter how much BS the journal is FFS. The point is the OQLF targeted a private business for not being french enough. That is the fact and I think the people in this thread are allowed to have the opinion that it is bullshit in a modern day society
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On February 21 2013 07:24 Dawski wrote:
If you must use legislation to keep your heritage alive, you've already failed. That's my opinion on the subject.
It doesn't matter how much BS the journal is FFS. The point is the OQLF targeted a private business for not being french enough. That is the fact and I think the people in this thread are allowed to have the opinion that it is bullshit in a modern day society
you don't seem to understand ethnlingusitic nor sociolingusitics. the need of using legislation is because there is something called culutral/linguistical hegemony but you probably don,t have the intelect to even know this word.
User was warned for this post
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On February 21 2013 07:30 crazyweasel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:24 Dawski wrote:
If you must use legislation to keep your heritage alive, you've already failed. That's my opinion on the subject.
It doesn't matter how much BS the journal is FFS. The point is the OQLF targeted a private business for not being french enough. That is the fact and I think the people in this thread are allowed to have the opinion that it is bullshit in a modern day society you don't seem to understand ethnlingusitic nor sociolingusitics. the need of using legislation is because there is something called culutral/linguistical hegemony but you probably don,t have the intelect to even know this word.
Nice, attacking me already that was fast.
I understand what all that stuff is, unfortunately I disagree with cultural importance being held so high by people to describe themselves. Who gives a fuck what your background is? If that is your reason for doing things then you need to take a step back on life.
I, like many others, believe in a free-market system. Private property rights, freedom to language, etc. What you're saying is that our opinion isn't worth a damn and that a thread discussing a topic from this point of view should be closed?
It actually makes me sick to my stomach
edit: if I say that I feel the amount of money Quebec recieves in transfer payments to support their higher value social services is bullshit, are you honestly going to tell me that "I just don't understand Quebecs problems?"
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Wow let's not go all Youtube on this !
On February 21 2013 07:24 Dawski wrote:
If you must use legislation to keep your heritage alive, you've already failed. That's my opinion on the subject.
Well it's very nice to have opinion on things, but protectionism is as old as economy itself.
The world is changing continously, even a third of the english language comes directly from french (as the english court was norman and spoke french for quite some time). Just like the eternal struggle between progressists and traditionalists, it's not about reaching any sort of goal but about defending your own worldview.
But it is weird to ask an italian restaurant to change the name of their food.
On February 21 2013 07:37 Dawski wrote:
I understand what all that stuff is, unfortunately I disagree with cultural importance being held so high by people to describe themselves. Who gives a fuck what your background is? If that is your reason for doing things then you need to take a step back on life.
Huh? Culture is everything. As in everything that makes us human beings, in opposition to animals. How can you say that culture is bullshit and then give a political opinion? :p
On February 21 2013 07:37 Dawski wrote:
edit: if I say that I feel the amount of money Quebec recieves in transfer payments to support their higher value social services is bullshit, are you honestly going to tell me that "I just don't understand Quebecs problems?"
The situation used to be the other way around, is this your way to say "thank you"? The same is happening in Belgium right now, Flanders used to feed of Wallonia's coal-based industry, but now that it's dead they want to split from those who once built their roads...
Alas, short memories.
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On February 21 2013 07:48 Kukaracha wrote:Wow let's not go all Youtube on this ! Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:24 Dawski wrote:
If you must use legislation to keep your heritage alive, you've already failed. That's my opinion on the subject. Well it's very nice to have opinion on things, but protectionism is as old as economy itself. The world is changing continously, even a third of the english language comes directly from french (as the english court was norman and spoke french for quite some time). Just like the eternal struggle between progressists and traditionalists, it's not about reaching any sort of goal but about defending your own worldview. But it is weird to ask an italian restaurant to change the name of their food.
I was just getting angry at the fact that the 2 posters before me actually said that an opinion like mine should be a reason to close a thread.
I understand that they are two different world-views. I want them to understand I have just as much a right to express mine as they do theirs.
I'm allowed to put a video like this up.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/search/all/source/charles-adler/what-is-ldquoethnociderdquo/2147304187001
whether that comes from a right-wing bias or not because although it may be different from what your worldview is, it is still a valid opinion.
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On February 21 2013 07:53 Dawski wrote:
I was just getting angry at the fact that the 2 posters before me actually said that an opinion like mine should be a reason to close a thread.
Oh I was reacting at the mix of insults and clumsy disdain that usually characterizes Youtube comments ("bro you don't know socioeconomics, you are ignorant, kill yourself").
Well, my problem would be that the OP isn't really discussing or debating about anything, he's mostly ranting (even getting banned just two weeks ago on this page), and nobody answers except when they simply feel offended.
It simply does not respect TL's quality standards. I have no idea why it's still up, or hasn't been moved to blogs.
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On February 21 2013 07:48 Kukaracha wrote:Wow let's not go all Youtube on this ! Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:24 Dawski wrote:
If you must use legislation to keep your heritage alive, you've already failed. That's my opinion on the subject. Well it's very nice to have opinion on things, but protectionism is as old as economy itself. The world is changing continously, even a third of the english language comes directly from french (as the english court was norman and spoke french for quite some time). Just like the eternal struggle between progressists and traditionalists, it's not about reaching any sort of goal but about defending your own worldview. But it is weird to ask an italian restaurant to change the name of their food. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:37 Dawski wrote:
I understand what all that stuff is, unfortunately I disagree with cultural importance being held so high by people to describe themselves. Who gives a fuck what your background is? If that is your reason for doing things then you need to take a step back on life. Huh? Culture is everything. As in everything that makes us human beings, in opposition to animals. How can you say that culture is bullshit and then give a political opinion? :p Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:37 Dawski wrote:
edit: if I say that I feel the amount of money Quebec recieves in transfer payments to support their higher value social services is bullshit, are you honestly going to tell me that "I just don't understand Quebecs problems?" The situation used to be the other way around, is this your way to say "thank you"? The same is happening in Belgium right now, Flanders used to feed of Wallonia's coal-based industry, but now that it's dead they want to split from those who once built their roads... Alas, short memories.
Culture is everything? so I can't be upset at the Chinese culture of shark fin soup even though it slaughters hundreds of endangered animals? Culture is important to know how you got to where you are, but other than setting up a world-view it is next to meaningless in making decisions which could change things for the better or worse.
I don't agree with ANY situation where equalization payments (supposed to be used to make sure social standards are up to par) are being manipulated to ensure higher social standards than the rest. Just because that's how it used to be doesn't mean that now we get to turn around and do the same to the other side. It's a stupid system, scrap it
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On February 21 2013 08:00 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 07:53 Dawski wrote:
I was just getting angry at the fact that the 2 posters before me actually said that an opinion like mine should be a reason to close a thread. Oh I was reacting at the mix of insults and clumsy disdain that usually characterizes Youtube comments ("bro you don't know socioeconomics, you are ignorant, kill yourself"). Well, my problem would be that the OP isn't really discussing or debating about anything, he's mostly ranting (even getting banned just two weeks ago on this page), and nobody answers except when they simply feel offended. It simply does not respect TL's quality standards. I have no idea why it's still up, or hasn't been moved to blogs.
You're correct that the OP's content wasn't up to quality standards, but this IS a valid topic. If you want I'll create a new thread, one which isn't full of insults to try get my point across and then we can close this one
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On February 21 2013 08:03 Dawski wrote:
Culture is everything? so I can't be upset at the Chinese culture of shark fin soup even though it slaughters hundreds of endangered animals? Culture is important to know how you got to where you are, but other than setting up a world-view it is next to meaningless in making decisions which could change things for the better or worse.
Of course you can, but then it's just your culture against yours. And it does set-up a world view, which is a critical... well, almost the only factor involved in abstract decision-making. There is no absolute better nor an absolute worse! It's up to us to defend our own opinions.
Take right/left differences. Even though you see things from one perspective, you probably understand that the key points of disagreement are structural, they lie in a way to see the world : the value of a nation over the value of a people, value of personal freedom over the value of equality, value of independence over the value of solidarity, etc... and these are, well, cultural.
I'm sure you would be upset if tomorrow your neighbourhood turns into a communist think tank. 
On February 21 2013 08:03 Dawski wrote:
I don't agree with ANY situation where equalization payments (supposed to be used to make sure social standards are up to par) are being manipulated to ensure higher social standards than the rest. Just because that's how it used to be doesn't mean that now we get to turn around and do the same to the other side. It's a stupid system, scrap it
Well, then take it as a refund, and then everyone can part ways and share only an open market and a flag.
But then the problem is : who payed more in the end ? I guess people would care about that.
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One of the reason why we should separate, is that Abraxis will have to put Quebec as his country in his TL profile. That alone should convince so many people to vote for the independance, because personally I don't see what his fuss with Quebec is.
The English media keeps saying the independance is coming and the French part is getting radical, while what WE hear is that independance is a dead idea that should be abandoned. There's really a big agenda here to keep Canada united, and it's just a sad thing that most Quebecers, French or English, don't understand it.
I personally see why an English Quebecer would never hope for independance, but I qualify as ignorant anyone who doesn't think Quebec is a nation inside Canada. Well, it's been considered that way up until the 70s, so it's kind of normal that the French Quebecers fight AT LEAST for their recognition inside Canada, although a flat-out independance would probably be better in the long run.
As for the PQ, well it was the best realist choice possible. Now of course ,by voting for them as Separatists (although I can see reasons to NOT separate, so I'm kind of a mild separatist, if you want), it is to vote for a party that will never separate.. not with this generation of politicians at least.
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On February 21 2013 08:11 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 08:03 Dawski wrote:
Culture is everything? so I can't be upset at the Chinese culture of shark fin soup even though it slaughters hundreds of endangered animals? Culture is important to know how you got to where you are, but other than setting up a world-view it is next to meaningless in making decisions which could change things for the better or worse. Of course you can, but then it's just your culture against yours. And it does set-up a world view, which is a critical... well, almost the only factor involved in abstract decision-making. There is no absolute better nor an absolute worse! It's up to us to defend our own opinions. Take right/left differences. Even though you see things from one perspective, you probably understand that the key points of disagreement are structural, they lie in a way to see the world : the value of a nation over the value of a people, value of personal freedom over the value of equality, value of independence over the value of solidarity, etc... and these are, well, cultural. I'm sure you would be upset if tomorrow your neighbourhood turns into a communist think tank. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 08:03 Dawski wrote:
I don't agree with ANY situation where equalization payments (supposed to be used to make sure social standards are up to par) are being manipulated to ensure higher social standards than the rest. Just because that's how it used to be doesn't mean that now we get to turn around and do the same to the other side. It's a stupid system, scrap it Well, then take it as a refund, and then everyone can part ways and share only an open market and a flag. But then the problem is : who payed more in the end ? I guess people would care about that.
I suppose your correct. Me saying that culture is useless was foolish, in the way that it creates a worldview. I do still believe however that there is a more advantageous way of seeing the world. That is how biases are created, when someone like me believes their way of thinking is superior. I personally don't see anything wrong with a bias provided you can back it up.
Take for example the league of students in Quebec that are rallying (from what i hear more like rioting but i'll be fair) against paying tuition for post-secondary education. My bias tells me that these entitled kids should realize that TROC has been, in a large part, the one funding their tuitions that are already less than half of ours. Is that not superior than promoting something that isn't needed and that they cannot as a province afford themselves? Even the PQ leader doesn't know what to say to this group of students and she was the one who was apart of the rallies herself!
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I didn't know they were pushing for free education. I'm quite surprised, as I just came back from a semester in Saguenay (north of Quebec), and while there was a strong movement against the rise of tuition fees, only a few spoke of more drastic measures. It does seem a bit idealistic - but hey, that what the far-right and the far-left do : ask for more, always more.
I do, however, agree with the opposition to the previously planned rise of costs, not in the sense that Quebec should be treated better but in the sense that Canada as a whole should adopt a cost-control policy regarding post-secondary education. It's too late in the US, but I believe that Canada can avoid the storm.
"The storm being student debt, the possible future generator of the next global economical crisis!"
The situation becomes that much more ridiculous when you see that american universities are investing less and less on education, and more and more on comfort and infrastructures.
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On February 21 2013 08:39 Kukaracha wrote:
I didn't know they were pushing for free education. I'm quite surprised, as I just came back from a semester in Saguenay (north of Quebec), and while there was a strong movement against the rise of tuition fees, only a few spoke of more drastic measures. It does seem a bit idealistic - but hey, that what the far-right and the far-left do : ask for more, always more.
I do, however, agree with the opposition to the previously planned rise of costs, not in the sense that Quebec should be treated better but in the sense that Canada as a whole should adopt a cost-control policy regarding post-secondary education. It's too late in the US, but I believe that Canada can avoid the storm.
"The storm being student debt, the possible future generator of the next global economical crisis!"
The situation becomes that much more ridiculous when you see that american universities are investing less and less on education, and more and more on comfort and infrastructures.
The student debt crisis is extremely real and i'm not doubting that fact, it's just always confused the hell out of me. Wtf are these universities thinking? It's the most basic economics that if you post too high a price you are cutting off customers. Like i've said before I am one who believes in a free market. People are still willing to go into debt to get your product sure, but you've gotta know you are shooting yourself in the foot in the long run and once the bubble bursts you WILL go bankrupt.
That's why I don't believe we should impose legislation on tuition costs because the costs of getting the degree are outweighing the productivity gain of having one and it will come crashing down. The system will then be reset and new universities will spring up who understand this. That may do a lot of damage to those students currently in the system but It's similar to the bail-out situations in the US with GM. While many people will lose their jobs if the company goes under, economically it simply makes sense in the long term.
edit: Also forgot to go a little further into detail: The reason why I'm against legislation forcefully imposing lower tuition is because in the future it is extremely possible that post-secondary institutions could be hindered by the legislation reducing growth. In the future with good handling the economy may just even itself out and may even be headed towards growth. You don't want a situation where the value of a degree is far more than the university is allowed to sell it for.
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EPT
