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On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public.
I agree with you, its so unfair that our generation of germans is not allowed to do the same mistakes as the previous generations. I mean, our generation has not killed 6 million jews......... yet...
And nobody lets us have some fun with our national pride. I mean you cant even say it anymore.... except for every sentences that starts with "you cant even say that anymore". And there are evil ppl everywhere calling us nazis.
If you didnt get that, it was sarcasm. The thing is, nobody is calling you a nazi, why would anyone. I picked your quote because I wanted to show how many germans get in the defensive just because there is a topic about a report that shows that more ppl in germany believe in nazi ideology compared to 2010. Instead of discussing the topic, most germans here try to push it as far away as possible. And I start to wonder what concerns me more, the report or this behavior.
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On November 14 2012 04:31 noD wrote:
Poverty always lead to those extreme cases, not that I'm saying germany is poor it's the richest country in europe, but it's still being affected by the rest of europe.
IMHO migratory flux + unemployed citzens will always lead to this kind of stuff if u refer to why Hitler ascended it's because he promised every single german would have job not because he would kill all the jews ....
There are regions in eastern Germany that are pretty poor, with very high numbers of unemployment, and those are the regions that have high approval ratings for right ideology. That's why there has been a special tax for the last 20 years, to transfer money from the West to the East with the purpose of trying to increase living conditions and infrastructure. This is also one of the reasons why there are not many people here exactly thrilled to transfer money to the mediterranean states in the fiscal crisis, but that's another topic.
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On November 14 2012 04:36 esperanto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public. I wanted to show how many germans get in the defensive just because there is a topic about a report that shows that more ppl in germany believe in nazi ideology compared to 2010.... And I start to wonder what concerns me more, the report or this behavior.
We are not "in the defensive" "just because there is a topic about some report". We are angry theres a topic saying "Nazi Uprising in Present Germany", which contains a "report" which is misleading to say the least.
Noone in here tried to deny there isnt any right people or nazis in germany. And now again, no! effing! way! are 9 % of people in germany as right as the report claims.
Anyone who either:
A: lives in Germany and sets a foot out of the door more than once a month
B: Doesnt blindly believe everything he hears and checks the actual study in detail
C: Tracks voting results in Germany more than twice every decade or so
knows those 9 % are exaggerated.
You know whats concerning? People blindly believing stuff without thinking on their own. Has led to stupid mistakes in the past i heard.
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On November 14 2012 04:31 noD wrote:
Poverty always lead to those extreme cases, not that I'm saying germany is poor it's the richest country in europe, but it's still being affected by the rest of europe.
IMHO migratory flux + unemployed citzens will always lead to this kind of stuff if u refer to why Hitler ascended it's because he promised every single german would have job not because he would kill all the jews ....
Not disputing unemployment, but if anything eastern Germany shows that the number of migrants is not directly connected to the rise of right wing thinking. The "new states" (as the former GDR is commenly refered to) has a signfificantly lower percentage of migrants to the general population then western Germany. Yet it is eastern Germany where the far right seems to prosper.
It probably has more to do with the lack of entrenched democratic thought and structure combined with what is pretty much a systematic crisis of the capitalistic system then how many actual foreign (or foreign looking) people are in tne region.
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On November 14 2012 04:41 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:31 noD wrote:
Poverty always lead to those extreme cases, not that I'm saying germany is poor it's the richest country in europe, but it's still being affected by the rest of europe.
IMHO migratory flux + unemployed citzens will always lead to this kind of stuff if u refer to why Hitler ascended it's because he promised every single german would have job not because he would kill all the jews .... There are regions in eastern Germany that are pretty poor, with very high numbers of unemployment, and those are the regions that have high approval ratings for right ideology. That's why there has been a special tax for the last 20 years, to transfer money from the West to the East with the purpose of trying to increase living conditions and infrastructure. This is also one of the reasons why there are not many people here exactly thrilled to transfer money to the mediterranean states in the fiscal crisis, but that's another topic.
Well perhaps not that much of another topic, sending a good chunk of money for a country that might never pay you back might inspire some people to go right wings too, no ?
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On November 13 2012 12:05 Grimmyman123 wrote:
[...] What somewhat put me on the edge decisiviley, was an argument that the current genepool of Germany, is from the populous which survived the war. [...] These people are the genetic makup which is the current german citizen. [...]
I can't believe someone argues like this in a thread like this. This guy essentially follows the Nazis' theory that people's values, norms, culture, and behavior were based on their genetics and implicitly suggests that today's German population was genetically determined to be supporting mass murderers. The entire notion of people's abstract values and norms being determined by genetics is not only factually wrong, but also builds on exactly the same inhuman notion as the social Darwinism of the Third Reich.
It's a little odd to have to write something like this in a thread warning of a Nazi uprising, however: No, the Nazis' theories were NOT right. People's thoughts and behaviors are NOT determined by their genetics. This was not true with regard to Jews and this is not true with regard to any other ethical group.
Also, the OP is poorly written and misleading.
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The german government and law is far to lenient with nazis. They are allowed to parade they even get police protection,
I mean WTF ? These people should be put in jail and their leaders deserve worse.
Only a dead Nazi is a good Nazi but people have learned nothing and they wont.
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On November 14 2012 04:51 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:36 esperanto wrote:On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public. I wanted to show how many germans get in the defensive just because there is a topic about a report that shows that more ppl in germany believe in nazi ideology compared to 2010.... And I start to wonder what concerns me more, the report or this behavior. We are not "in the defensive" "just because there is a topic about some report". We are angry theres a topic saying "Nazi Uprising in Present Germany", which contains a "report" which is misleading to say the least. Noone in here tried to deny there isnt any right people or nazis in germany. And now again, no! effing! way! are 9 % of people in germany as right as the report claims. Anyone who either: A: lives in Germany and sets a foot out of the door more than once a month B: Doesnt blindly believe everything he hears and checks the actual study in detail C: Tracks voting results in Germany more than twice every decade or so knows those 9 % are exaggerated. You know whats concerning? People blindly believing stuff without thinking on their own. Has led to stupid mistakes in the past i heard.
its a study. so its just classification of their answers. if people have 2nd thoughts about immigrants they might easily be counted towards those 9% and even lack of education can show up in there(downplaying ww2/holocaust).
and honsestly, if we now call evryone thats not 100% positive towards immigrants a nazi then damn, the whole world is filled with nazis.
plus in the end as long as i see there are 100x as much people at evry nazi demonstration that try to stop it i dont see a big problem. also its pretty much only in poor/high unemployment rate areas in east germany where its that bad.
On November 14 2012 05:01 Holy_AT wrote:
The german government and law is far to lenient with nazis. They are allowed to parade they even get police protection,
I mean WTF ? These people should be put in jail and their leaders deserve worse.
Only a dead Nazi is a good Nazi but people have learned nothing and they wont.
thats the price of freedom and free speech. its the same for evryone ,even total idiots.
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On November 14 2012 05:01 Holy_AT wrote:
The german government and law is far to lenient with nazis. They are allowed to parade they even get police protection,
I mean WTF ? These people should be put in jail and their leaders deserve worse.
Only a dead Nazi is a good Nazi but people have learned nothing and they wont.
Maybe you're being sarcastic or exaggerating, but don't you see the irony here?
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If I were to put on my dreaming cap, I would go on a limb and say that there is something about Germany which makes it different from other countries in their susceptibility to radical views. If you look at Germany in comparison to other countries like Austria, Hungary, Italy, France or Greece, anti-Nazism is here most strictly, diligently and stalwartly fortified in the minds and hearts of the people. Contrary to the inferences of the OP, in Germany the "Extreme Right" is less likely to come to power than any of the aforementioned countries. This is partially because of the vulgarity of non-conformist politics, and a widespread longing in Germany for socially respectable opinions.
Hitler understood this after the 1923 Putsch, when otherwise sympathetic members of the Bavarian State police obeyed their orders and opened fire on the ranks of the SA. It proved to Hitler that the widespread sympathy for his cause in Munich did not go so far as to act out against the proclaimed organs of political legitimacy.
After his release from prison he abandoned trying to pull off his own "March on Rome," and looked to overthrow the Weimar Republic through legitimate means. Part of this went into developing his oratory, his personal manners, his presentation to respectable social circles. He also knew how to accentuate parts of his programme which were respectable: nationalism, anti-marxism, freedom and equality for Germany among nations, repudiation of German war guilt. Values which would carry with them not only the collaboration of much of the conservative-nationalist vote, but much of the working class as well. He knew how weak and flimsy the moral authority of the Weimar Republic was, yet he understood how strong the devotion to legitimacy of the German people was, that the final moves which could probably have stopped him would have been the restoration of the Hohenzollern Monarchy before 1933, and the restoration of the Habsburgs (which Schuschnigg attempted to carry out at the 11th hour) in Austria.
It's this same devotion to legitimate and respectable opinions which prevent what is publicly excoriated as radicalism from ever coming to power in Germany. A silent shift in values may occur, latent natural feelings of patriotism may reawaken after decades of neglect, but the ultimate stability of the German vehicle remains the same. Can a Machiavellian genius like Hitler still play the system to destruction from within? It is much more difficult now than in 1933. The Federal Republic of Germany has the great advantage over its Weimar Predecessor, in that after 60 years of existence, most of those who were born under values not shaped by the Federal Republic are dying out if not already dead. The exception to this is in Eastern Germany, and the historical absence of the BRD may be an even stronger factor behind the emergence of radical politics there than the economic situation.
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On November 14 2012 05:07 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:51 freewareplayer wrote:On November 14 2012 04:36 esperanto wrote:On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public. I wanted to show how many germans get in the defensive just because there is a topic about a report that shows that more ppl in germany believe in nazi ideology compared to 2010.... And I start to wonder what concerns me more, the report or this behavior. We are not "in the defensive" "just because there is a topic about some report". We are angry theres a topic saying "Nazi Uprising in Present Germany", which contains a "report" which is misleading to say the least. Noone in here tried to deny there isnt any right people or nazis in germany. And now again, no! effing! way! are 9 % of people in germany as right as the report claims. Anyone who either: A: lives in Germany and sets a foot out of the door more than once a month B: Doesnt blindly believe everything he hears and checks the actual study in detail C: Tracks voting results in Germany more than twice every decade or so knows those 9 % are exaggerated. You know whats concerning? People blindly believing stuff without thinking on their own. Has led to stupid mistakes in the past i heard. its a study. so its just classification of their answers. if people have 2nd thoughts about immigrants they might easily be counted towards those 9% and even lack of education can show up in there(downplaying ww2/holocaust). and honsestly, if we now call evryone thats not 100% positive towards immigrants a nazi then damn, the whole world is filled with nazis. plus in the end as long as i see there are 100x as much people at evry nazi demonstration that try to stop it i dont see a big problem. also its pretty much only in poor/high unemployment rate areas in east germany where its that bad.
yeh thats exactly my point/opinion, if you realise the 9 % are only a classification of their answers, then the study is no cause to be really troubled about, as the guy i quoted said he is.
A lot of people, especially not from germany, actually think those 9 % are far right oriented people, as can be seen in the replies
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On November 14 2012 04:51 freewareplayer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:36 esperanto wrote:On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public. I wanted to show how many germans get in the defensive just because there is a topic about a report that shows that more ppl in germany believe in nazi ideology compared to 2010.... And I start to wonder what concerns me more, the report or this behavior. We are not "in the defensive" "just because there is a topic about some report". We are angry theres a topic saying "Nazi Uprising in Present Germany", which contains a "report" which is misleading to say the least. Noone in here tried to deny there isnt any right people or nazis in germany. And now again, no! effing! way! are 9 % of people in germany as right as the report claims. Anyone who either: A: lives in Germany and sets a foot out of the door more than once a month B: Doesnt blindly believe everything he hears and checks the actual study in detail C: Tracks voting results in Germany more than twice every decade or so knows those 9 % are exaggerated. You know whats concerning? People blindly believing stuff without thinking on their own. Has led to stupid mistakes in the past i heard.
I guess you havent read the report, because the report never claims what you say, so never did I.
I wish the op would have made a direkt link to the actual paper, cause it only lists the answers and statistics given by the questioning they made.
Is is that hard to believe that around 9% of the german population has racist thoughts about immigrants, when books like "Deutschland schafft sich ab" and "Neuköln ist überall" are the number 1 bestsellers for such a long time?
And I never said its the end of the world, but the fact is, the FES makes this study every 2 years and the numbers are growing (even if clearly they are not even near to a dangerous level for democracy).
But even at a low level a growing number of racism and fascism should be concerning, doesnt it?
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What's wrong with anti-Islam? (yes, I'm aware this question misses the entire point at hand)
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 05:11 MoltkeWarding wrote:
If I were to put on my dreaming cap, I would go on a limb and say that there is something about Germany which makes it different from other countries in their susceptibility to radical views. If you look at Germany in comparison to other countries like Austria, Hungary, Italy, France or Greece, anti-Nazism is here most strictly, diligently and stalwartly fortified in the minds and hearts of the people. Contrary to the inferences of the OP, in Germany the "Extreme Right" is less likely to come to power than any of the aforementioned countries. This is partially because of the vulgarity of non-conformist politics, and a widespread longing in Germany for socially respectable opinions.
Hitler understood this after the 1923 Putsch, when otherwise sympathetic members of the Bavarian State police obeyed their orders and opened fire on the ranks of the SA. It proved to Hitler that the widespread sympathy for his cause in Munich did not go so far as to act out against the proclaimed organs of political legitimacy.
After his release from prison he abandoned trying to pull off his own "March on Rome," and looked to overthrow the Weimar Republic through legitimate means. Part of this went into developing his oratory, his personal manners, his presentation to respectable social circles. He also knew how to accentuate parts of his programme which were respectable: nationalism, anti-marxism, freedom and equality for Germany among nations, repudiation of German war guilt. Values which would carry with them not only the collaboration of much of the conservative-nationalist vote, but much of the working class as well. He knew how weak and flimsy the moral authority of the Weimar Republic was, yet he understood how strong the devotion to legitimacy of the German people were, that the final moves which could probably have stopped him would have been the restoration of the Hohenzollern Monarchy before 1933, and the restoration of the Habsburgs (which Schuschnigg attempted to carry out at the 11th hour) in Austria.
It's this same devotion to legitimate and respectable opinions which prevent what is publicly excoriated as radicalism from ever coming to power in Germany. A silent shift in values may occur, latent natural feelings of patriotism may reawaken after decades of neglect, but the ultimate stability of the German vehicle remains the same. Can a Machiavellian genius like Hitler still play the system to destruction from within? It is much more difficult now than in 1933. The Federal Republic of Germany has the great advantage over its Weimar Predecessor, in that after 60 years of existence, most of those who were born under values not shaped by the Federal Republic are dying out if not already dead. The exception to this is in Eastern Germany, and the historical absence of the BRD may be an even stronger factor behind the emergence of radical politics there than the economic situation.
Wow this guy knows his shit!
Are you studying History? For sure you know more about Germany history than 90 % of the Germans.
And you really din´t miss a point in this Discussion.
I am impressed!
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On November 14 2012 05:18 Pasargadae wrote:
What's wrong with anti-Islam? (yes, I'm aware this question misses the entire point at hand)
Problem is neither parties actually want to debate or change their view point based on a democratic discussion process. If one party assumes that their assumption is absolute and unchanging then there is no point engaging in activity to the contrary unless by force and conflict. The problem with anti-Islamic movement is that it promotes violent actions on both sides, unless BOTH parties are willing to progress there is no point.
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On November 14 2012 05:22 Gonzo103 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 05:11 MoltkeWarding wrote:
If I were to put on my dreaming cap, I would go on a limb and say that there is something about Germany which makes it different from other countries in their susceptibility to radical views. If you look at Germany in comparison to other countries like Austria, Hungary, Italy, France or Greece, anti-Nazism is here most strictly, diligently and stalwartly fortified in the minds and hearts of the people. Contrary to the inferences of the OP, in Germany the "Extreme Right" is less likely to come to power than any of the aforementioned countries. This is partially because of the vulgarity of non-conformist politics, and a widespread longing in Germany for socially respectable opinions.
Hitler understood this after the 1923 Putsch, when otherwise sympathetic members of the Bavarian State police obeyed their orders and opened fire on the ranks of the SA. It proved to Hitler that the widespread sympathy for his cause in Munich did not go so far as to act out against the proclaimed organs of political legitimacy.
After his release from prison he abandoned trying to pull off his own "March on Rome," and looked to overthrow the Weimar Republic through legitimate means. Part of this went into developing his oratory, his personal manners, his presentation to respectable social circles. He also knew how to accentuate parts of his programme which were respectable: nationalism, anti-marxism, freedom and equality for Germany among nations, repudiation of German war guilt. Values which would carry with them not only the collaboration of much of the conservative-nationalist vote, but much of the working class as well. He knew how weak and flimsy the moral authority of the Weimar Republic was, yet he understood how strong the devotion to legitimacy of the German people were, that the final moves which could probably have stopped him would have been the restoration of the Hohenzollern Monarchy before 1933, and the restoration of the Habsburgs (which Schuschnigg attempted to carry out at the 11th hour) in Austria.
It's this same devotion to legitimate and respectable opinions which prevent what is publicly excoriated as radicalism from ever coming to power in Germany. A silent shift in values may occur, latent natural feelings of patriotism may reawaken after decades of neglect, but the ultimate stability of the German vehicle remains the same. Can a Machiavellian genius like Hitler still play the system to destruction from within? It is much more difficult now than in 1933. The Federal Republic of Germany has the great advantage over its Weimar Predecessor, in that after 60 years of existence, most of those who were born under values not shaped by the Federal Republic are dying out if not already dead. The exception to this is in Eastern Germany, and the historical absence of the BRD may be an even stronger factor behind the emergence of radical politics there than the economic situation. Wow this guy knows his shit! Are you studying History? For sure you know more about Germany history than 90 % of the Germans. And you really din´t miss a point in this Discussion. I am impressed!
Don't +1 a comment then fill it with more generalizations like "90% of the Germans" ._.
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On November 14 2012 05:01 Holy_AT wrote:
The german government and law is far to lenient with nazis. They are allowed to parade they even get police protection,
I mean WTF ? These people should be put in jail and their leaders deserve worse.
Only a dead Nazi is a good Nazi but people have learned nothing and they wont.
That's not what I heard, although I might be wrong since I'm not German. What I've heard is that there are anti-nazi laws in Germany, for instance it's a crime to publicly display the swastika symbol. Or am I wrong?
If so, Germany has laws that quite severely is limiting the freedom of speech, more so than most other democratic nations. The criticism I've encountered so far is that Germany is going to far in limiting the freedom of speech, never that they are not going far enough. Perhaps you don't understand the problems involved in limiting that basic right.
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On November 14 2012 05:29 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 05:22 Gonzo103 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 05:11 MoltkeWarding wrote:
If I were to put on my dreaming cap, I would go on a limb and say that there is something about Germany which makes it different from other countries in their susceptibility to radical views. If you look at Germany in comparison to other countries like Austria, Hungary, Italy, France or Greece, anti-Nazism is here most strictly, diligently and stalwartly fortified in the minds and hearts of the people. Contrary to the inferences of the OP, in Germany the "Extreme Right" is less likely to come to power than any of the aforementioned countries. This is partially because of the vulgarity of non-conformist politics, and a widespread longing in Germany for socially respectable opinions.
Hitler understood this after the 1923 Putsch, when otherwise sympathetic members of the Bavarian State police obeyed their orders and opened fire on the ranks of the SA. It proved to Hitler that the widespread sympathy for his cause in Munich did not go so far as to act out against the proclaimed organs of political legitimacy.
After his release from prison he abandoned trying to pull off his own "March on Rome," and looked to overthrow the Weimar Republic through legitimate means. Part of this went into developing his oratory, his personal manners, his presentation to respectable social circles. He also knew how to accentuate parts of his programme which were respectable: nationalism, anti-marxism, freedom and equality for Germany among nations, repudiation of German war guilt. Values which would carry with them not only the collaboration of much of the conservative-nationalist vote, but much of the working class as well. He knew how weak and flimsy the moral authority of the Weimar Republic was, yet he understood how strong the devotion to legitimacy of the German people were, that the final moves which could probably have stopped him would have been the restoration of the Hohenzollern Monarchy before 1933, and the restoration of the Habsburgs (which Schuschnigg attempted to carry out at the 11th hour) in Austria.
It's this same devotion to legitimate and respectable opinions which prevent what is publicly excoriated as radicalism from ever coming to power in Germany. A silent shift in values may occur, latent natural feelings of patriotism may reawaken after decades of neglect, but the ultimate stability of the German vehicle remains the same. Can a Machiavellian genius like Hitler still play the system to destruction from within? It is much more difficult now than in 1933. The Federal Republic of Germany has the great advantage over its Weimar Predecessor, in that after 60 years of existence, most of those who were born under values not shaped by the Federal Republic are dying out if not already dead. The exception to this is in Eastern Germany, and the historical absence of the BRD may be an even stronger factor behind the emergence of radical politics there than the economic situation. Wow this guy knows his shit! Are you studying History? For sure you know more about Germany history than 90 % of the Germans. And you really din´t miss a point in this Discussion. I am impressed! Don't +1 a comment then fill it with more generalizations like "90% of the Germans" ._.
okey for sure i don´t want to offend anybody. Maybe you are a bit to strikt here. I was impressed by his knowlege. :D
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On November 14 2012 05:22 Gonzo103 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 05:11 MoltkeWarding wrote:
If I were to put on my dreaming cap, I would go on a limb and say that there is something about Germany which makes it different from other countries in their susceptibility to radical views. If you look at Germany in comparison to other countries like Austria, Hungary, Italy, France or Greece, anti-Nazism is here most strictly, diligently and stalwartly fortified in the minds and hearts of the people. Contrary to the inferences of the OP, in Germany the "Extreme Right" is less likely to come to power than any of the aforementioned countries. This is partially because of the vulgarity of non-conformist politics, and a widespread longing in Germany for socially respectable opinions.
Hitler understood this after the 1923 Putsch, when otherwise sympathetic members of the Bavarian State police obeyed their orders and opened fire on the ranks of the SA. It proved to Hitler that the widespread sympathy for his cause in Munich did not go so far as to act out against the proclaimed organs of political legitimacy.
After his release from prison he abandoned trying to pull off his own "March on Rome," and looked to overthrow the Weimar Republic through legitimate means. Part of this went into developing his oratory, his personal manners, his presentation to respectable social circles. He also knew how to accentuate parts of his programme which were respectable: nationalism, anti-marxism, freedom and equality for Germany among nations, repudiation of German war guilt. Values which would carry with them not only the collaboration of much of the conservative-nationalist vote, but much of the working class as well. He knew how weak and flimsy the moral authority of the Weimar Republic was, yet he understood how strong the devotion to legitimacy of the German people were, that the final moves which could probably have stopped him would have been the restoration of the Hohenzollern Monarchy before 1933, and the restoration of the Habsburgs (which Schuschnigg attempted to carry out at the 11th hour) in Austria.
It's this same devotion to legitimate and respectable opinions which prevent what is publicly excoriated as radicalism from ever coming to power in Germany. A silent shift in values may occur, latent natural feelings of patriotism may reawaken after decades of neglect, but the ultimate stability of the German vehicle remains the same. Can a Machiavellian genius like Hitler still play the system to destruction from within? It is much more difficult now than in 1933. The Federal Republic of Germany has the great advantage over its Weimar Predecessor, in that after 60 years of existence, most of those who were born under values not shaped by the Federal Republic are dying out if not already dead. The exception to this is in Eastern Germany, and the historical absence of the BRD may be an even stronger factor behind the emergence of radical politics there than the economic situation. Wow this guy knows his shit! Are you studying History? For sure you know more about Germany history than 90 % of the Germans. And you really din´t miss a point in this Discussion. I am impressed!
Maybe you just had a bad history teacher, but I could have said a lot more about that and could have done it in greater detail (though I wouldn't agree with everything he wrote 100%), of course I had the history intensive course, but still, you exagerrated greatly there and shouldn't judge the rest of the population by your own knowledge or your limited experience of others about the topic...
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On November 14 2012 05:37 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 05:22 Gonzo103 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 05:11 MoltkeWarding wrote:
If I were to put on my dreaming cap, I would go on a limb and say that there is something about Germany which makes it different from other countries in their susceptibility to radical views. If you look at Germany in comparison to other countries like Austria, Hungary, Italy, France or Greece, anti-Nazism is here most strictly, diligently and stalwartly fortified in the minds and hearts of the people. Contrary to the inferences of the OP, in Germany the "Extreme Right" is less likely to come to power than any of the aforementioned countries. This is partially because of the vulgarity of non-conformist politics, and a widespread longing in Germany for socially respectable opinions.
Hitler understood this after the 1923 Putsch, when otherwise sympathetic members of the Bavarian State police obeyed their orders and opened fire on the ranks of the SA. It proved to Hitler that the widespread sympathy for his cause in Munich did not go so far as to act out against the proclaimed organs of political legitimacy.
After his release from prison he abandoned trying to pull off his own "March on Rome," and looked to overthrow the Weimar Republic through legitimate means. Part of this went into developing his oratory, his personal manners, his presentation to respectable social circles. He also knew how to accentuate parts of his programme which were respectable: nationalism, anti-marxism, freedom and equality for Germany among nations, repudiation of German war guilt. Values which would carry with them not only the collaboration of much of the conservative-nationalist vote, but much of the working class as well. He knew how weak and flimsy the moral authority of the Weimar Republic was, yet he understood how strong the devotion to legitimacy of the German people were, that the final moves which could probably have stopped him would have been the restoration of the Hohenzollern Monarchy before 1933, and the restoration of the Habsburgs (which Schuschnigg attempted to carry out at the 11th hour) in Austria.
It's this same devotion to legitimate and respectable opinions which prevent what is publicly excoriated as radicalism from ever coming to power in Germany. A silent shift in values may occur, latent natural feelings of patriotism may reawaken after decades of neglect, but the ultimate stability of the German vehicle remains the same. Can a Machiavellian genius like Hitler still play the system to destruction from within? It is much more difficult now than in 1933. The Federal Republic of Germany has the great advantage over its Weimar Predecessor, in that after 60 years of existence, most of those who were born under values not shaped by the Federal Republic are dying out if not already dead. The exception to this is in Eastern Germany, and the historical absence of the BRD may be an even stronger factor behind the emergence of radical politics there than the economic situation. Wow this guy knows his shit! Are you studying History? For sure you know more about Germany history than 90 % of the Germans. And you really din´t miss a point in this Discussion. I am impressed! Maybe you just had a bad history teacher, but I could have said a lot more about that and could have done it in greater detail (though I wouldn't agree with everything he wrote 100%), of course I had the history intensive course, but still, you exagerrated greatly there and shouldn't judge the rest of the population by your own knowledge or your limited experience of others about the topic...
c´mon guys! I got your points! Maybe i had a bad History Teacher, maybe i exagerrated a bit to much! I really din´t want to offend anybody. And i am still sure most of the Germans don´t know as much as he knows. They don´t have to.
Maybe he is wrong in some points! His posts are way way better than claiming we should build a wall around Germany because we share the same DNA with our Grandfathers o.O
Edit: @silentchill also din´t want to offend you. you are sure a part of a good educated well informed and intrested minority among us germans and u know that. :D
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