|
On November 14 2012 00:32 Sareth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:53 Samba wrote:On November 13 2012 12:05 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 m4inbrain wrote:On November 13 2012 11:28 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 07:45 Blackfeather wrote:On November 13 2012 06:09 Grimmyman123 wrote:
The solution is simple, and it was done 67 years ago, but it was not maintained.
Demilitarize Germany like we did at the end of World War 2. Maintain and enforce a zero military policy. We didn't learn the first time after World War 1 and allowed germany to rearm itself, and look what happened. If Germany is allowed to be run by some radical group again, with their current military, its a problem.
For referrence, if you didn't know, Germany's military budget is EQUAL to Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Belguin, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, and the Netherlands military budgets COMBINED. Take a look at that list of countries and their proximity to Germany. Scary isn't it?
After World War 1, and then World War 2, we should have learned. There should not have been a wall dividing Germany. There should have been a wall surrounding it.
So, that way it doesnt matter who leads Germany or what their views are. Let them scwabble among themselves.
(Yes, I know this is an extreme point of view and is not wholy realistic due to the need for a country to be able to defend itself. However, the statistics and numbers are a bit frightening when it comes to Germany's military budget, military size, and the country's past history of conflicts.) your comment is quite racist on a side note. and according to wikipedia germany's military budget is 1,3% of their gdp, less budget than both france's or the united kingdom's, while germany's gdp is about 50% higher. btw if you isolate germany now the european market it will outright collapse. Thank you for your concern. My post was not racist at all, please do study up. GDP percentage is not an accurate gauge. Actual currency spent is more accurate when comparing militaries. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expendituresAs for isolating Germany, I don't think that they would care if the rest of europe has hard times. Yes, economy will take a dump, thats a given, globally. But, that's to be expected and could be worked around. Germany does not contain a natural resourse stockpile, with natural minerals and uranium as its main resourses, along with grown crops, at least that could not be offset globally. Meaning, Germany isnt the supplier of its surrounding countries with critical natural resources. Your post wasn't racist. But borderline stupid. Germany had a history of wars, right. But to hear from a canadian (a neighbor of, lol, the US) that he is "frightened" of our military.. Yeah, wow. Btw, guess what nation had the most wars in the last 200 years (including a fair share of war crimes). Oh, and then look how much they still spend on military. And keep in mind that they're actually a nation with nuclear capabilities. What a bunch of bullshit, seriously. Even if the right wing would suddenly take over in germany, which actually does not happen at all, a war as aggressor against poland, czech? With france and the UK (you know, nuclear weapons and stuff) directly next to us.. God, i can't really fathom how stupid someone has to be to actually think there are any possibilities to have that scenario. Im actually just playing devils advocate. My brother and I were having a good debate the other night about what should have happened to Germany after World War 2 and the happenings of war with that country. We did some fact checking etc etc, and were actually surprised to see how strong a military a country like Germany has, considering its historic past. We were surprised that the deaths of literally millions at the hand of a single country really didn't affect their future since the war, especially since early 1990. I actually played the opposite roll in that argument. But my brother did make some very good points, which are in this thread already. What somewhat put me on the edge decisiviley, was an argument that the current genepool of Germany, is from the populous which survived the war. The people that stood by and watched, doing nothing, as millions of people were exterminated. That actually elected by a massive majority the leadership and future they chose, and the slaugter that followed. That did nothing as the concentration camps within eye sight burned trainedloads of people. These people are the genetic makup which is the current german citizen. As much as I argued around it, it was a standing point which was fact. It happened, there were survivors, and those survivors lived on, procreated, and 2 and 3 generations later is where they are genetically. Now, I see your post was an attempt to poke at Americans, their war efforts and involvements, etc etc, in an effort to frustrate or infuriate me. You won't get that much pleasure from me. I might be Canadian, and the USA might be my neighbor to the south, but I could care less for them as a general populous, personally speaking. Are you fucking stupid?!?! How on earth can you really think that a genepool can inflict a nation this heavily? Society is definite by culture and education, not what my fucking granddad did or didn´t do. That doesn´t affect me at all. And btw what do you think your ancestors came from?! That´s right, Europe. Fuck your genepool! And next time you do "some fact checking" : Hitler wasn´t elected, but i´m not really suprised by that seeing your last posts. And on the whole debate, we just had a really nice event here in cologne where we have an annual concert against racism and intolerance and freakin´ 80000 people showed up, last anti-nazi demo i went we were 15000 against 100 neo-nazis. Tell that your fucking genepool and get some education! User was temp banned for this post. tempban, really? Sure, he had some bad language, but in this thread are lots of posts with equally bad language and a lot of posts who are just racist, but not get banned... But he is right. At every nazi demonstration there are at least like ten times as many people rallying against nazis/racism. I am not a racist. Maybe my grand-grand-dad was? I don't know and i don't care. Please don't judge me on something i have never done.
I agree that Grimmyman123 was provoked pretty heavily. Blackfeather basically said "I'm afraid of the Germans, they're still the monsters that stood by watching people get slaughtered" while saying "Oh, those people next to us that actually all but extinguished an entire people and went to war with other nations under false pretenses multiple times in the last 50 years, no, those I'm not worried about".
|
The term "Uprising" is so blatantly wrong, that i don't find this worthy of discussion until the correct tone has been introduced by the opening statement.
|
Zurich15365 Posts
On November 14 2012 02:04 TigerKarl wrote:
The term "Uprising" is so blatantly wrong, that i don't find this worthy of discussion until the correct tone has been introduced by the opening statement.
Well gee thanks for letting us know anyway!
|
wow this thread is going in the wrong direction pretty sure!
The numbers are alarming thats for sure! And the big disparity between west and east is also a bad sign for our society. The high numbers in the east are no suprise if you take a close look on the actuall state (unemployment rate) and the newer History (GDR/Reunion). Right ideas also undermine slowly a broughter part of the society thats maybe a reason for the high numbers!
And if you compare how many Germans call dem selfs Nationalists with people from other european Countrys you will be suprised. Most Germans aren´t Nationalists ore even Patriots at all! Untill WM 2006 it wasn´t even possible to put out a german Flag. And evan today you will see those only if the German soccer team is playing.
So i think the fact that the numbers are rising is concerning but for sure we don´t have to build a FUCKING WALL around Germany to protect the rest of the World.
Edit: tryed to fix spelling (sry for my bad english)
|
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public.
|
On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public.
Your totally right! I agree.
|
On November 14 2012 02:12 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:04 TigerKarl wrote:
The term "Uprising" is so blatantly wrong, that i don't find this worthy of discussion until the correct tone has been introduced by the opening statement. Well gee thanks for letting us know anyway!
I was totally looking out of my window fully expecting to see the Nazis rise up!
On November 14 2012 02:24 quaZa wrote:
@Blackfeather
How is Germany not allowed too be strong again? How we are not allowed too be Patriotic again? u say Germany should be basicly a dust state? and u pull that off by saying "Ohh our Genpool is the same as the guys who stood there and let that happen" how stupid is this? our decissions are not binded with our Genpool lol. Yes im german Yes im patriotic and Yes i love my Country im i a Nazi now?....
I just said that what actually Millions of Germans think but they are too afraid to say it in public.
I find the combination of spelling and sentiment quite interesting to be honest.
|
On November 14 2012 01:27 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +By that I do not merely mean a kind of physical, but also moral coercion which takes place in the German education system today
to decide this empirical question i'd have to know what precise historical distortions or imbalances you are talking about and show that these distortions are the result of distorted presentation rather than the gravity of the nazi situation, by the magnitude of the event itself, has a large footprint. in any case, given most charitable facts, nobody is hereby saying that a clear eyed account of history is not important. it is just that any clear eyed examination of history will also feature the lesson of a moral politics in order to resist the powerful human drives of national and racial hatred and narrative. still, the cost benefit of presenting the best account of history that highlights the lessons (it really is a lesson for all humanity not merely germans) is heavily leaning towards value building. i don't care if retarded teenagers think it's cool to defend hitler because history books neglected to mention a couple years of full employment. i really don't care. your claim is most charitably one about moral fatigue and the way of combating that. maybe to show the fuller picture and pierce the self claimed facts ignored that give neonazis some kind of bubble of ignored reality. it is maybe a problem tackled by people dealing with cults or conspiracy theorists. not really a big problem for the general aim of moral education. the less charitable interpretation, perhaps a factually stronger one, is that you are projecting your own unbalanced view of history and the resentment you feel against the entire oppressive ideological structure encountered at skool. nice going but don't get lost.
You see, the tragedy is that I rather sympathise with oneofthem. Like him, I am a rather intuitive, speculative person. Like him, I like to throw things out there and see how they float in the court of public life. I don't know that I take myself as seriously as he does, but for me, nurturing this irresponsible misuse of the mind is a guilty pleasure, not a thing I'd be proud to proliferate unto my children in the guise of "value building" or what have you.
Hence statements like
the less charitable interpretation, perhaps a factually stronger one, is that you are projecting your own unbalanced view of history and the resentment you feel against the entire oppressive ideological structure encountered at skool.
I would recognise in my verbal arsenal easily, but for one minute difference. I would have replaced with "less charitable and factually stronger" with "less charitable and factually baseless," which indeed it is. I will say one thing for him: he is more charitable towards the Nazis than he is towards me. To the Nazis he is willing to eschew the attribution of motives and say that it doesn't matter, they were evil because of what they did. Towards me, whom he has to strike in the face (I am reminded of the story whereby Himmler fainted when he first personally witnessed a man shot in a concentration camp) he sheathes the sword and mildly suggests that I think as I do because I am only reacting to narrow, personal circumstances.
To get some matters straight:
-I am not resentful of the oppressive ideological structure encountered at skool.
-I am not projecting any view of history, unless he thinks that any view of history which does not subject all facts to ideological interpretation is to skew the truth.
-He seem to think that a (the?) aim of history is "moral education." I will neither affirm nor deny this notion, but he seems to misunderstand the entire trick of what an moral education is. As Jiminy Cricket says in Pinocchio: it's the thing that tells you what seems to be good is bad, and what seems to be bad is good. Saying that Nazis were bad because they did bad things is not a moral education. Moral education demands that we show the inherent evil behind all the positive things the Nazis seemed to represent to their people. As Maupassant says of the proper use of history, it is "to compel us to reflect, and to understand the darker and deeper meaning behind events."
-If old-fashioned anti-semitism, national and racial hate were the values that the Nazis represented at their core, they would have been no danger at all, and therefore not worthy of notice in the consideration of ethics or otherwise.
-In the case of Hitler, as a object example, his racism except in the case of the Jews was not much more extreme than typical Victorian notions about the world. He was largely indifferent to and contemptuous of blacks, admired the Japanese and Chinese in some ways, saw in Islam a more compelling and vital religion than Christianity, and at various moments in his life, expressed admiration for such friends and foes as the British, the Greeks, the Finns, the Russians, the Americans, the Italians. It is arguable that Hitler's anti-semitism was racially-based. At the end of his life several of his statements contradict the notion. Certainly the Weltanschauung which Hitler possessed bears no resemblance to say, the views of a modern Stormfront agitator against Obama.
-The nature of hate requires sustained and unyielding discipline, a quality which he himself does not possess and Hitler did in abundance. If it came down to a contest of wills (a value which Hitler placed above race, religion or even ideology), oneofthem would be meekly squeeking heil by 1934 
-Thinking that Hitler's popularity is directly linked to his ability to produce full employment in Germany is to miss the appeal he produced throughout German society on a more fundamental level. (By 1938 suicide rates in Germany had dropped 80%, marriage and birth rates at post-war highs.) Admiration of not only his economic achievements (which Hitler himself did not worry to much about) but social ones are not merely views held by "stupid kids" that can be brushed away with the wave of a hand. It requires a well-informed and discerning mind to argue the point that even in the sunny, prosperous days of the mid-30s, there was something rotten in the state of Denmark.
-The argument is that rather than confronting these troublesome matters, most people are today encouraged to brush them under the rug. Nazi doctrine was obviously evil. Mein Kampf is a garrulous bile of philosophical gibberish. Hitler was a madman with an insane ideology. If I were there I would have seen matters for what is really was thanks to my advanced moral education. Like I said: In reality oneofthem joins the Nazi party by 1934.
Then how do you suggest we proceed?
By "we" do you mean yourself, the world, or something in between? As much as I love to pontificate upon matters of the Weltgeist, I would never trust myself with the reigns of responsibility or power, except in circles in which I slowly graduate to them. There's an odd illusion shared among troublemakers that because you have good intentions and some good ideas you deserve to have any influence in the world. I'm afraid I can't give you much insight into the imperatives of life apart from repeating some old cliches- read more, try to gain more experience, be polite, have good manners, be courteous, be a good son to your parents and father to your children, etc. If you can achieve any of that in our troubled age, it will already be a small victory for humanity. Far more useful I assure you, than becoming the species of drama queens known as armchair moralists who generally outgrow their energy by the mid-20s anyhow.
That argument makes no sense. There is no need for nazi leadership to be influenced by historical anti-semitism for their success to convince general population to be attributable to it. Or that they even willingly used those historical sentiments.
I have no idea what this means, since the sentence needs editing. I think mcc means: whereas the Nazi leadership subscribed to modern, and idealistic incarnations of anti-semitism, it does not follow that they did not exploit the latent religious anti-semitism among the German people.
The only thing to say to this is: if they did, it did not rise to the levels of expressed Nazi doctrine, and was therefore socially irrelevant. Traditional anti-semitism, even in the fin de siecle was a dying phenomenon in Germany and Austria. As Hitler attests in Mein Kampf, by 1900 such anti-semitic views were regarded as parochial and low-brow even among provincial people. It still existed to a great extent where Jewish emancipation occurred later, where the Jews were less integrated or where they still mostly subscribed to the Conservative or Orthodox branches of Judaism, such as in Poland or Russia. However the majority of German Jews were well-integrated, Reformed Jews who had become not only socially, but sometimes physically indistinguishable from ordinary Germans. This was what the Historian Heinrich von Treischke feared as the intrusion of the Jewish spirit outwardly mascaraing as assimilated Germans within an emancipated hybrid society.
It's also really a lot of bunk to suggest à la Goldhagen that the Nazis merely brought out some inherent atavistic anti-semitism latent in German society. During the war, the most virulent expressions of anti-semitism and what was happening to the Jews was suppressed and unspoken, even in private meetings among the top echelons of the Nazi leadership. Anyone who mentioned the word Dachau (and Dachau was not even a Jewish camp) in the presence of Hitler at Berchtesgaden would become persona non grata there.
I largely accept the conclusion that the German population as a whole in the interbellum was not radically more anti-semitic than other Western European countries. Germany was probably the centre of Intellectual anti-semitism, but as a whole its population were considerably less anti-semitic than the peoples of Russia, the Ukraine, Poland or Romania.
|
"germany shouldn't be allowed to have a big military , because they are genetically identical to their grandfathers" is probably the most stupid and at the same time ironical statement made in this thread so far, because that's pretty much kind of nazi-ideological.
just a little thought: our genes didn't change significantly over the last few thousand years but our societies and worldviews changed like a hundred-times over that time period. What does that imply?
|
@ msl
Sorry that i write fast and English isnt my mother language god i hate idiots like u so much.
User was warned for this post
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
yes, i am a nazi. any questions.
the amount of vexation is usually correlated to the length of the response. still, the proposition that moral sanctions against nazis by the mere label is pretty good still stands.
|
On November 14 2012 03:14 quaZa wrote:
@ msl
Sorry that i write fast and English isnt my mother language god i hate idiots like u so much.
Das Englisch nicht deine Muttersprache ist entschuldigt wohl kaum dass Du dir nicht die Mühe machen kannst anständig zu schreiben. Soviel Zeit muss einfach sein!
User was warned for this post
EDIT to appease the angry gods: I was saying that English not being his first language is no excuse to not spell-check. As an ironic gesture I was saying it in German, seeing how it is my first language too. Too clever for my own good, it seems ;-)
|
A lot of posts I haven't read, but racism isn't something that's found in the genes among certain ethnic groups. That's just silly. Most if not all cultures have suffered from more or less widespread racism. That said, racism is a human thing, not a genetic one, something which pretty much everyone is capable of, only the circumstances determines how badly it affects a nation. That's my firm belief.
In the last two or so years, as the economic situation has been unstable, I've seen people express opinions I thought died with the nazis, and that in Sweden although we got one of the best economies in Europe atm. From what I can tell the situation in Greece for instance is far worse, and apparently it's pretty bad in Germany aswell.
Trying to discard racism as something only other "races" are capable of is, ironically, borderline racist itself. IMO the only way to combat racism is to take further steps towards a civilized world, and I think that's done through education. The education level is, together with economic stability, probably what's most important if we wanna move forward instead of backwards.
|
On November 14 2012 03:18 oneofthem wrote:
yes, i am a nazi. any questions.
the amount of vexation is usually correlated to the length of the response. still, the proposition that moral sanctions against nazis by the mere label is pretty good still stands.
Nah, you're whatever circumstances and opportunity force you to be due to lack of energy and will. That's why you're a potential fellow-travelling Nazi, rather than a leading one like Hitler, Goebbels or Hess. There was a day when the uppity fantasist had to match their verbal extroversion with physical exertion (or, by the age of Gladstone, at least ride around in a train cart.) Nowadays we can do the rabble-rousing from a keyboard, and that's why any great movement in the past 2000 years will rip our little armies to shreds.
|
On November 13 2012 15:53 Samba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 12:05 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 m4inbrain wrote:On November 13 2012 11:28 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 07:45 Blackfeather wrote:On November 13 2012 06:09 Grimmyman123 wrote:
The solution is simple, and it was done 67 years ago, but it was not maintained.
Demilitarize Germany like we did at the end of World War 2. Maintain and enforce a zero military policy. We didn't learn the first time after World War 1 and allowed germany to rearm itself, and look what happened. If Germany is allowed to be run by some radical group again, with their current military, its a problem.
For referrence, if you didn't know, Germany's military budget is EQUAL to Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Belguin, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, and the Netherlands military budgets COMBINED. Take a look at that list of countries and their proximity to Germany. Scary isn't it?
After World War 1, and then World War 2, we should have learned. There should not have been a wall dividing Germany. There should have been a wall surrounding it.
So, that way it doesnt matter who leads Germany or what their views are. Let them scwabble among themselves.
(Yes, I know this is an extreme point of view and is not wholy realistic due to the need for a country to be able to defend itself. However, the statistics and numbers are a bit frightening when it comes to Germany's military budget, military size, and the country's past history of conflicts.) your comment is quite racist on a side note. and according to wikipedia germany's military budget is 1,3% of their gdp, less budget than both france's or the united kingdom's, while germany's gdp is about 50% higher. btw if you isolate germany now the european market it will outright collapse. Thank you for your concern. My post was not racist at all, please do study up. GDP percentage is not an accurate gauge. Actual currency spent is more accurate when comparing militaries. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expendituresAs for isolating Germany, I don't think that they would care if the rest of europe has hard times. Yes, economy will take a dump, thats a given, globally. But, that's to be expected and could be worked around. Germany does not contain a natural resourse stockpile, with natural minerals and uranium as its main resourses, along with grown crops, at least that could not be offset globally. Meaning, Germany isnt the supplier of its surrounding countries with critical natural resources. Your post wasn't racist. But borderline stupid. Germany had a history of wars, right. But to hear from a canadian (a neighbor of, lol, the US) that he is "frightened" of our military.. Yeah, wow. Btw, guess what nation had the most wars in the last 200 years (including a fair share of war crimes). Oh, and then look how much they still spend on military. And keep in mind that they're actually a nation with nuclear capabilities. What a bunch of bullshit, seriously. Even if the right wing would suddenly take over in germany, which actually does not happen at all, a war as aggressor against poland, czech? With france and the UK (you know, nuclear weapons and stuff) directly next to us.. God, i can't really fathom how stupid someone has to be to actually think there are any possibilities to have that scenario. Im actually just playing devils advocate. My brother and I were having a good debate the other night about what should have happened to Germany after World War 2 and the happenings of war with that country. We did some fact checking etc etc, and were actually surprised to see how strong a military a country like Germany has, considering its historic past. We were surprised that the deaths of literally millions at the hand of a single country really didn't affect their future since the war, especially since early 1990. I actually played the opposite roll in that argument. But my brother did make some very good points, which are in this thread already. What somewhat put me on the edge decisiviley, was an argument that the current genepool of Germany, is from the populous which survived the war. The people that stood by and watched, doing nothing, as millions of people were exterminated. That actually elected by a massive majority the leadership and future they chose, and the slaugter that followed. That did nothing as the concentration camps within eye sight burned trainedloads of people. These people are the genetic makup which is the current german citizen. As much as I argued around it, it was a standing point which was fact. It happened, there were survivors, and those survivors lived on, procreated, and 2 and 3 generations later is where they are genetically. Now, I see your post was an attempt to poke at Americans, their war efforts and involvements, etc etc, in an effort to frustrate or infuriate me. You won't get that much pleasure from me. I might be Canadian, and the USA might be my neighbor to the south, but I could care less for them as a general populous, personally speaking. Are you fucking stupid?!?! How on earth can you really think that a genepool can inflict a nation this heavily? Society is definite by culture and education, not what my fucking granddad did or didn´t do. That doesn´t affect me at all. And btw what do you think your ancestors came from?! That´s right, Europe. Fuck your genepool! And next time you do "some fact checking" : Hitler wasn´t elected, but i´m not really suprised by that seeing your last posts. And on the whole debate, we just had a really nice event here in cologne where we have an annual concert against racism and intolerance and freakin´ 80000 people showed up, last anti-nazi demo i went we were 15000 against 100 neo-nazis. Tell that your fucking genepool and get some education! User was temp banned for this post.
This guy deserves a medal not a temp ban. Grimmyman123 is basically calling Germans genetically determined massmurders. Not even Hitler himself made such horrendous generalized statements.
I am all for a certain humilty when it comes to a national sentiment in Germany and it's good that most germans accept the responsibility which comes from our past but that doesn't mean that I should have to read such stupid bullshit and see people getting banned when they get mad about that.
edit: changed wrong name
|
On November 14 2012 03:57 Influ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 15:53 Samba wrote:On November 13 2012 12:05 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 11:40 m4inbrain wrote:On November 13 2012 11:28 Grimmyman123 wrote:On November 13 2012 07:45 Blackfeather wrote:On November 13 2012 06:09 Grimmyman123 wrote:
The solution is simple, and it was done 67 years ago, but it was not maintained.
Demilitarize Germany like we did at the end of World War 2. Maintain and enforce a zero military policy. We didn't learn the first time after World War 1 and allowed germany to rearm itself, and look what happened. If Germany is allowed to be run by some radical group again, with their current military, its a problem.
For referrence, if you didn't know, Germany's military budget is EQUAL to Austria, Switzerland, Czech, Belguin, Poland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, and the Netherlands military budgets COMBINED. Take a look at that list of countries and their proximity to Germany. Scary isn't it?
After World War 1, and then World War 2, we should have learned. There should not have been a wall dividing Germany. There should have been a wall surrounding it.
So, that way it doesnt matter who leads Germany or what their views are. Let them scwabble among themselves.
(Yes, I know this is an extreme point of view and is not wholy realistic due to the need for a country to be able to defend itself. However, the statistics and numbers are a bit frightening when it comes to Germany's military budget, military size, and the country's past history of conflicts.) your comment is quite racist on a side note. and according to wikipedia germany's military budget is 1,3% of their gdp, less budget than both france's or the united kingdom's, while germany's gdp is about 50% higher. btw if you isolate germany now the european market it will outright collapse. Thank you for your concern. My post was not racist at all, please do study up. GDP percentage is not an accurate gauge. Actual currency spent is more accurate when comparing militaries. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expendituresAs for isolating Germany, I don't think that they would care if the rest of europe has hard times. Yes, economy will take a dump, thats a given, globally. But, that's to be expected and could be worked around. Germany does not contain a natural resourse stockpile, with natural minerals and uranium as its main resourses, along with grown crops, at least that could not be offset globally. Meaning, Germany isnt the supplier of its surrounding countries with critical natural resources. Your post wasn't racist. But borderline stupid. Germany had a history of wars, right. But to hear from a canadian (a neighbor of, lol, the US) that he is "frightened" of our military.. Yeah, wow. Btw, guess what nation had the most wars in the last 200 years (including a fair share of war crimes). Oh, and then look how much they still spend on military. And keep in mind that they're actually a nation with nuclear capabilities. What a bunch of bullshit, seriously. Even if the right wing would suddenly take over in germany, which actually does not happen at all, a war as aggressor against poland, czech? With france and the UK (you know, nuclear weapons and stuff) directly next to us.. God, i can't really fathom how stupid someone has to be to actually think there are any possibilities to have that scenario. Im actually just playing devils advocate. My brother and I were having a good debate the other night about what should have happened to Germany after World War 2 and the happenings of war with that country. We did some fact checking etc etc, and were actually surprised to see how strong a military a country like Germany has, considering its historic past. We were surprised that the deaths of literally millions at the hand of a single country really didn't affect their future since the war, especially since early 1990. I actually played the opposite roll in that argument. But my brother did make some very good points, which are in this thread already. What somewhat put me on the edge decisiviley, was an argument that the current genepool of Germany, is from the populous which survived the war. The people that stood by and watched, doing nothing, as millions of people were exterminated. That actually elected by a massive majority the leadership and future they chose, and the slaugter that followed. That did nothing as the concentration camps within eye sight burned trainedloads of people. These people are the genetic makup which is the current german citizen. As much as I argued around it, it was a standing point which was fact. It happened, there were survivors, and those survivors lived on, procreated, and 2 and 3 generations later is where they are genetically. Now, I see your post was an attempt to poke at Americans, their war efforts and involvements, etc etc, in an effort to frustrate or infuriate me. You won't get that much pleasure from me. I might be Canadian, and the USA might be my neighbor to the south, but I could care less for them as a general populous, personally speaking. Are you fucking stupid?!?! How on earth can you really think that a genepool can inflict a nation this heavily? Society is definite by culture and education, not what my fucking granddad did or didn´t do. That doesn´t affect me at all. And btw what do you think your ancestors came from?! That´s right, Europe. Fuck your genepool! And next time you do "some fact checking" : Hitler wasn´t elected, but i´m not really suprised by that seeing your last posts. And on the whole debate, we just had a really nice event here in cologne where we have an annual concert against racism and intolerance and freakin´ 80000 people showed up, last anti-nazi demo i went we were 15000 against 100 neo-nazis. Tell that your fucking genepool and get some education! User was temp banned for this post. This guy deserves a medal not a temp ban. Blackfeather is basically calling Germans genetically determined massmurders. Not even Hitler himself made such horrendous generalized statements. I am all for a certain humilty when it comes to a national sentiment in Germany and it's good that most germans accept the responsibility which comes from our past but that doesn't mean that I should have to read such stupid bullshit and see people getting banned when they get mad about that.
Blackfeather is innocent (and pointed out that we have a pretty low per capita military spending), the braindead racist is Grimmyman123, I believe you slipped a line while looking for the name in the spoilered quote
|
How did the OP remain unchanged for so long when so many posts call it out for being badly written when it's about a topic like this?
Kinda disappointing.
|
On November 14 2012 04:17 SilentchiLL wrote:
How did the OP remain unchanged for so long when so many posts call it out for being badly written when it's about a topic like this?
Kinda disappointing.
true, the sources are very bad too.
Sometimes I just feel like people want Germany to be nazi...
|
On November 14 2012 01:52 mathemagician1986 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On November 13 2012 15:38 Rabiator wrote:On November 13 2012 15:30 oneofthem wrote:
i always am curious why nazis hate jews. what's the basis for this idea? After we lost in WW1 Hitler - who was in the army during that time - and others tried to blame others for the loss. There was the "Dolchstosslegende" (that we would have won, but the home front gave up and thus stabbed the glorious military in the back) and Hitler just came up with the jews. That has stuck since then and it is easy to do ... just blame a jew for everything bad that is happening to you is an easy escape. Now its the foreign workers stealing the jobs btw., because "jews" would be too obvious. So the core is "blame others and dont look accept that life can be tough". It is the same with all the conspiracy theories (about UFOs or 9/11) ... some people cant accept the fact that "bad things can happen without anyone being responsible for them OR that you can make mistakes (like misjudging the strength of your military OR missing the signs for an attack by AlQaeda)". Shit happens sometimes .... Hate of the Jews dates far back into medieval period. They were different and separated themselves socially so they were a good scapegoat for anything bad. Plus they killed Jesus of course. Nazis (and communists, and Polish, and .....) just used that existing sentiment. It's a sentiment that was at least tolerated in wide parts of Europe at the time (especially in the UK Aristocracy). Sadly, in Germany a group of Fascists without any morals came into power, and they used it for a (at the time) unparalleled genocide. To people saying Fascism is solely a German thing, and it's in our "genes". Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_WaveIt's an experiment done by a US teacher in a high school. He basically showed that NO ONE is immune to the appeal of fascism. I remember reading the book about this experiment in school, there was also at least one film about this.
This film
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Welle
They should this film to us back in gymnasium when we were still being taught german. It is a very interesting film and i would encourage anyone to watch it.
|
Poverty always lead to those extreme cases, not that I'm saying germany is poor it's the richest country in europe, but it's still being affected by the rest of europe.
IMHO migratory flux + unemployed citzens will always lead to this kind of stuff if u refer to why Hitler ascended it's because he promised every single german would have job not because he would kill all the jews ....
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
