EPTOn October 15 2012 07:09 tokicheese wrote:
I'll add that I would define who the person is before shooting and warn them that I have a gun and that the police are coming. If they continue upstairs then I would shoot.
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2012 06:51 sevencck wrote:
I'd change this slightly.
1. I need to defend myself
2. The purpose of a gun is to kill
3. I need a gun to defend myself
The underlying value here is not so much that you need to potentially be willing to kill in order to defend yourself as perhaps it should be, the value here ends up being that in pursuit of self defense, the other person's life becomes worth so very little you don't even need to consider what he's doing or whether or not killing him is necessary. He broke into my house and I shot for the center mass. Period.
Yeah, see above, but basically this implies that your default response is shoot to kill. In other words, if you know nothing about someone's intentions, you kill them, and if you were somehow able to learn something about their intentions you might not. Shoot to kill shouldn't be the default response, it should be the last response for a decent human being.
On October 15 2012 06:32 Jormundr wrote:
You know it's often a good idea to re-evaluate your viewpoint when you end up arguing against yourself.
Here are your points
1. The purpose of a gun is to kill (not to wound)
2. People should own guns
3. People who own guns don't plan on killing people
What
The
Fuck
I mean seriously, any argument for gun ownership based on the 'self defense' line of thinking is preceded by the willingness to kill.
On October 15 2012 06:16 heliusx wrote:
Yes, I'm very sheltered because I think it's a ridiculous notion to believe most people who own guns are waiting for an excuse to use it to kill someone. Lol........
On October 15 2012 06:05 lodeet wrote:
Yes it's true and I don't understand why you try to argue as I said people I KNOW and have met. All I am saying the majority of people I have met in my life are ignorant fucks doing the same stupid shit which leaves me to believe, based on my experiences, that the majority of the populace falls under the same category. And it is not secret that this is true. While that doesn't mean they are all out to kill each other. It just means most people aren't logical thinkers and are bound to be completely irrational. They can be mentally capable of owning and controling a firearm, but not smart enough to set proper procedures and set certain constraints in place to prevent accidents. Just because they will justify some excuse in their head as why a certain scenario wouldn't happen or how they would potentially prevent it. People don't set up enough safe guards probably because of ego and other dumb shit I cannot fathom.
Regardless though if you still think people don't use self defense as an excuse to kill someone I think you are very sheltered. Whether majority or not it's still a lot of people.
On October 15 2012 05:45 heliusx wrote:
I lived in new orleans for 6 years, and currently in los angeles for the past 8.
Your own statement is what leads me to believe the "majority of people you know" (as you put it) are mentally incapable of owning a firearm in a mature and safe way.
On October 15 2012 05:40 lodeet wrote:
I don't socialize with stupid people. I believe you are the ignorant one here. It's simply an anger thing. People want others to feel their pain. When they are fucked they want to fuck someone else in return. It's a vicious cycle. Of course everyone doesn't think this way but it's extremely prevelant mindset in the low-middle class who are the majority of the population.
You can't call bullshit on this from looking down from Canada. I think I have a much better understanding of what goes on in my country. I have lived in the cities in the suburbs and the boondocks and find the same thing no matter where I go.
Different people with different mindsets, but still the desire to hurt someone else.
On October 15 2012 05:25 heliusx wrote:
That's completely bullshit. The only people who think like that are either mentally retarded are immature teenagers. If that is really the case you should stop socializing with such stupid . and it's
On October 15 2012 05:23 lodeet wrote:
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
On October 15 2012 05:12 Stutters695 wrote:
[quote]
It isn't as simple as having the know-how. Seeing as he had retired it wasn't like he was carrying nonlethal weapons. Of course you'd like to think a cop would be level headed enough to inform the intruder he was armed and demand he identify himself but that's not as simple as it sounds.
Although I am pro gun control I think this exemplifies the need for family training on having a gun in the household. My ex had a dad who owned a few guns and lived in a pretty sketchy neighborhood. Anytime someone came over late (parents asleep) her and her sister were told to use the front door and turn on the hallway light as soon as they got in. Although it seems controlling to a certain extent, if a family is prone to pull a gun on a robber, a discussion and simple protocols could easily prevent so many accidental shootings without infringing on gun owners rights in a way like lessening castle doctrine would.
These accidents are so unnecessary it's sad.
[quote]
It isn't as simple as having the know-how. Seeing as he had retired it wasn't like he was carrying nonlethal weapons. Of course you'd like to think a cop would be level headed enough to inform the intruder he was armed and demand he identify himself but that's not as simple as it sounds.
Although I am pro gun control I think this exemplifies the need for family training on having a gun in the household. My ex had a dad who owned a few guns and lived in a pretty sketchy neighborhood. Anytime someone came over late (parents asleep) her and her sister were told to use the front door and turn on the hallway light as soon as they got in. Although it seems controlling to a certain extent, if a family is prone to pull a gun on a robber, a discussion and simple protocols could easily prevent so many accidental shootings without infringing on gun owners rights in a way like lessening castle doctrine would.
These accidents are so unnecessary it's sad.
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
That's completely bullshit. The only people who think like that are either mentally retarded are immature teenagers. If that is really the case you should stop socializing with such stupid . and it's
I don't socialize with stupid people. I believe you are the ignorant one here. It's simply an anger thing. People want others to feel their pain. When they are fucked they want to fuck someone else in return. It's a vicious cycle. Of course everyone doesn't think this way but it's extremely prevelant mindset in the low-middle class who are the majority of the population.
You can't call bullshit on this from looking down from Canada. I think I have a much better understanding of what goes on in my country. I have lived in the cities in the suburbs and the boondocks and find the same thing no matter where I go.
Different people with different mindsets, but still the desire to hurt someone else.
I lived in new orleans for 6 years, and currently in los angeles for the past 8.
On October 15 2012 05:23 lodeet wrote:
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
Your own statement is what leads me to believe the "majority of people you know" (as you put it) are mentally incapable of owning a firearm in a mature and safe way.
Yes it's true and I don't understand why you try to argue as I said people I KNOW and have met. All I am saying the majority of people I have met in my life are ignorant fucks doing the same stupid shit which leaves me to believe, based on my experiences, that the majority of the populace falls under the same category. And it is not secret that this is true. While that doesn't mean they are all out to kill each other. It just means most people aren't logical thinkers and are bound to be completely irrational. They can be mentally capable of owning and controling a firearm, but not smart enough to set proper procedures and set certain constraints in place to prevent accidents. Just because they will justify some excuse in their head as why a certain scenario wouldn't happen or how they would potentially prevent it. People don't set up enough safe guards probably because of ego and other dumb shit I cannot fathom.
Regardless though if you still think people don't use self defense as an excuse to kill someone I think you are very sheltered. Whether majority or not it's still a lot of people.
Yes, I'm very sheltered because I think it's a ridiculous notion to believe most people who own guns are waiting for an excuse to use it to kill someone. Lol........
On October 15 2012 05:29 heliusx wrote:
The purpose of a gun is to kill and that is all. How is that so hard to understand? Are the youth so brainwashed by media that they think a gun can be precisely aimed to disarm without sacrificing your safety in such a situation? Get with reality you use a gun to kill.
On October 15 2012 05:25 Slardar wrote:
Honestly what is the purpose of a fucking gun if you just shoot someone in the head? You have someone at gun point in the dark, you don't say "HANDS UP" OR at least threaten "MOVE ANOTHER INCH AND I'LL CAP YOUR ASS"?
This shit is inconceivably retarded that I would say it's a murder case. A trained cop just does that?
Honestly what is the purpose of a fucking gun if you just shoot someone in the head? You have someone at gun point in the dark, you don't say "HANDS UP" OR at least threaten "MOVE ANOTHER INCH AND I'LL CAP YOUR ASS"?
This shit is inconceivably retarded that I would say it's a murder case. A trained cop just does that?
The purpose of a gun is to kill and that is all. How is that so hard to understand? Are the youth so brainwashed by media that they think a gun can be precisely aimed to disarm without sacrificing your safety in such a situation? Get with reality you use a gun to kill.
You know it's often a good idea to re-evaluate your viewpoint when you end up arguing against yourself.
Here are your points
1. The purpose of a gun is to kill (not to wound)
2. People should own guns
3. People who own guns don't plan on killing people
What
The
Fuck
I mean seriously, any argument for gun ownership based on the 'self defense' line of thinking is preceded by the willingness to kill.
I'd change this slightly.
1. I need to defend myself
2. The purpose of a gun is to kill
3. I need a gun to defend myself
The underlying value here is not so much that you need to potentially be willing to kill in order to defend yourself as perhaps it should be, the value here ends up being that in pursuit of self defense, the other person's life becomes worth so very little you don't even need to consider what he's doing or whether or not killing him is necessary. He broke into my house and I shot for the center mass. Period.
On October 15 2012 06:51 tokicheese wrote:
Your unreal...
If some one enters my home at night you bet your ass I'm gonna fucking shoot them. I can't read their mind, I don't know if they are armed with a gun, a knife or a nuke. I can't read their mind and know what their intentions are if they intend to steal, rape some one or kill someone. Why should I as a decent human being be expected to gamble my life and my girlfriends life when someone enters my home with a malicious intent? I should not have to fucking knife fight some random crackhead to keep us safe.
On October 15 2012 06:32 Jormundr wrote:
You know it's often a good idea to re-evaluate your viewpoint when you end up arguing against yourself.
Here are your points
1. The purpose of a gun is to kill (not to wound)
2. People should own guns
3. People who own guns don't plan on killing people
What
The
Fuck
I mean seriously, any argument for gun ownership based on the 'self defense' line of thinking is preceded by the willingness to kill.
On October 15 2012 06:16 heliusx wrote:
Yes, I'm very sheltered because I think it's a ridiculous notion to believe most people who own guns are waiting for an excuse to use it to kill someone. Lol........
On October 15 2012 06:05 lodeet wrote:
Yes it's true and I don't understand why you try to argue as I said people I KNOW and have met. All I am saying the majority of people I have met in my life are ignorant fucks doing the same stupid shit which leaves me to believe, based on my experiences, that the majority of the populace falls under the same category. And it is not secret that this is true. While that doesn't mean they are all out to kill each other. It just means most people aren't logical thinkers and are bound to be completely irrational. They can be mentally capable of owning and controling a firearm, but not smart enough to set proper procedures and set certain constraints in place to prevent accidents. Just because they will justify some excuse in their head as why a certain scenario wouldn't happen or how they would potentially prevent it. People don't set up enough safe guards probably because of ego and other dumb shit I cannot fathom.
Regardless though if you still think people don't use self defense as an excuse to kill someone I think you are very sheltered. Whether majority or not it's still a lot of people.
On October 15 2012 05:45 heliusx wrote:
I lived in new orleans for 6 years, and currently in los angeles for the past 8.
Your own statement is what leads me to believe the "majority of people you know" (as you put it) are mentally incapable of owning a firearm in a mature and safe way.
On October 15 2012 05:40 lodeet wrote:
I don't socialize with stupid people. I believe you are the ignorant one here. It's simply an anger thing. People want others to feel their pain. When they are fucked they want to fuck someone else in return. It's a vicious cycle. Of course everyone doesn't think this way but it's extremely prevelant mindset in the low-middle class who are the majority of the population.
You can't call bullshit on this from looking down from Canada. I think I have a much better understanding of what goes on in my country. I have lived in the cities in the suburbs and the boondocks and find the same thing no matter where I go.
Different people with different mindsets, but still the desire to hurt someone else.
On October 15 2012 05:25 heliusx wrote:
That's completely bullshit. The only people who think like that are either mentally retarded are immature teenagers. If that is really the case you should stop socializing with such stupid . and it's
On October 15 2012 05:23 lodeet wrote:
[quote]
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
[quote]
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
That's completely bullshit. The only people who think like that are either mentally retarded are immature teenagers. If that is really the case you should stop socializing with such stupid . and it's
I don't socialize with stupid people. I believe you are the ignorant one here. It's simply an anger thing. People want others to feel their pain. When they are fucked they want to fuck someone else in return. It's a vicious cycle. Of course everyone doesn't think this way but it's extremely prevelant mindset in the low-middle class who are the majority of the population.
You can't call bullshit on this from looking down from Canada. I think I have a much better understanding of what goes on in my country. I have lived in the cities in the suburbs and the boondocks and find the same thing no matter where I go.
Different people with different mindsets, but still the desire to hurt someone else.
I lived in new orleans for 6 years, and currently in los angeles for the past 8.
On October 15 2012 05:23 lodeet wrote:
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
This is why I don't care to own a gun, because they are fucking dangerous. I have shot many different types of hand guns and rifles and I can respect the power and devastation of the weapon. You cannot trust people to be responsible with guns it will just never happen and the current laws gives anyone an excuse to fire on an intruder. I don't necessarily have an issue with being able to protect yourself in your own home, but most people that I meet that like to own guns make it a point that they wish someone would break in just for an excuse to kill. I think it's sick and from my experience it's a mentality the majority of people I know have.
Your own statement is what leads me to believe the "majority of people you know" (as you put it) are mentally incapable of owning a firearm in a mature and safe way.
Yes it's true and I don't understand why you try to argue as I said people I KNOW and have met. All I am saying the majority of people I have met in my life are ignorant fucks doing the same stupid shit which leaves me to believe, based on my experiences, that the majority of the populace falls under the same category. And it is not secret that this is true. While that doesn't mean they are all out to kill each other. It just means most people aren't logical thinkers and are bound to be completely irrational. They can be mentally capable of owning and controling a firearm, but not smart enough to set proper procedures and set certain constraints in place to prevent accidents. Just because they will justify some excuse in their head as why a certain scenario wouldn't happen or how they would potentially prevent it. People don't set up enough safe guards probably because of ego and other dumb shit I cannot fathom.
Regardless though if you still think people don't use self defense as an excuse to kill someone I think you are very sheltered. Whether majority or not it's still a lot of people.
Yes, I'm very sheltered because I think it's a ridiculous notion to believe most people who own guns are waiting for an excuse to use it to kill someone. Lol........
On October 15 2012 05:29 heliusx wrote:
The purpose of a gun is to kill and that is all. How is that so hard to understand? Are the youth so brainwashed by media that they think a gun can be precisely aimed to disarm without sacrificing your safety in such a situation? Get with reality you use a gun to kill.
On October 15 2012 05:25 Slardar wrote:
Honestly what is the purpose of a fucking gun if you just shoot someone in the head? You have someone at gun point in the dark, you don't say "HANDS UP" OR at least threaten "MOVE ANOTHER INCH AND I'LL CAP YOUR ASS"?
This shit is inconceivably retarded that I would say it's a murder case. A trained cop just does that?
Honestly what is the purpose of a fucking gun if you just shoot someone in the head? You have someone at gun point in the dark, you don't say "HANDS UP" OR at least threaten "MOVE ANOTHER INCH AND I'LL CAP YOUR ASS"?
This shit is inconceivably retarded that I would say it's a murder case. A trained cop just does that?
The purpose of a gun is to kill and that is all. How is that so hard to understand? Are the youth so brainwashed by media that they think a gun can be precisely aimed to disarm without sacrificing your safety in such a situation? Get with reality you use a gun to kill.
You know it's often a good idea to re-evaluate your viewpoint when you end up arguing against yourself.
Here are your points
1. The purpose of a gun is to kill (not to wound)
2. People should own guns
3. People who own guns don't plan on killing people
What
The
Fuck
I mean seriously, any argument for gun ownership based on the 'self defense' line of thinking is preceded by the willingness to kill.
Your unreal...
If some one enters my home at night you bet your ass I'm gonna fucking shoot them. I can't read their mind, I don't know if they are armed with a gun, a knife or a nuke. I can't read their mind and know what their intentions are if they intend to steal, rape some one or kill someone. Why should I as a decent human being be expected to gamble my life and my girlfriends life when someone enters my home with a malicious intent? I should not have to fucking knife fight some random crackhead to keep us safe.
Yeah, see above, but basically this implies that your default response is shoot to kill. In other words, if you know nothing about someone's intentions, you kill them, and if you were somehow able to learn something about their intentions you might not. Shoot to kill shouldn't be the default response, it should be the last response for a decent human being.
I'll add that I would define who the person is before shooting and warn them that I have a gun and that the police are coming. If they continue upstairs then I would shoot.
I suppose that's reasonable. I'd hate to have to do it though.
