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On September 25 2012 04:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 03:55 WTFZerg wrote: The House seat for my district is up for election but there's only one dude running.
Kinda made me laugh. Well what's your opinion on him either way?
I actually don't know much about him. There was a redistricting in 2010 that I didn't pay enough attention to.
I know he's a Republican, which comes as no big surprise, but I should probably go look into his voting record.
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On September 25 2012 03:38 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 03:29 cLAN.Anax wrote: Lolwut? Dems won't pass a bill that cuts programs and government spending; Reps won't pass a bill that raises taxes. (that's what I keep hearing from them in the news, anyway) I think Bronze's quote that you bolded hit the nail on the head: nobody wants to compromise because everyone's too entrenched in their own side on the political spectrum.
Democrats had their shining opportunity back in 2008-09 to pass stuff like mad when they had majority in both Houses and in the White House. Now they're gonna blame Republicans for being "too partisan?" As if they can only pass stuff now and not earlier? Uh-uh, they lost their chance. It's now back to the slow, slow process of incessant debate and very little getting through. This has been refuted a number of times in the US presidential thread, but I'll helpfully remind you of the mental gymnastics needed to consider a tiny 4 month window a "shining opportunity". Show nested quote +In January 2009, there were 56 Senate Democrats and two independents who caucused with Democrats. This combined total of 58 included Sen. Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), whose health was failing and was unable to serve. As a practical matter, in the early months of Obama’s presidency, the Senate Democratic caucus had 57 members on the floor for day-to-day legislating.
In April 2009, Pennsylvania’s Arlen Specter switched parties. This meant there were 57 Democrats, and two independents who caucused with Democrats, for a caucus of 59. But with Kennedy ailing, there were still “only” 58 Democratic caucus members in the chamber.
In May 2009, Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.) was hospitalized, bringing the number of Senate Dems in the chamber down to 57.
In July 2009, Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) was finally seated after a lengthy recount/legal fight. At that point, the Democratic caucus reached 60, but two of its members, Kennedy and Byrd, were unavailable for votes.
In August 2009, Kennedy died, and Democratic caucus again stood at 59.
In September 2009, Sen. Paul Kirk (D-Mass.) filled Kennedy’s vacancy, bringing the caucus back to 60, though Byrd’s health continued to deteriorate.
In January 2010, Sen. Scott Brown (R-Mass.) replaced Kirk, bringing the Democratic caucus back to 59 again.
In June 2010, Byrd died, and the Democratic caucus fell to 58, where it stood until the midterms. [Update: Jonathan Bernstein reminds me that Byrd's replacement was a Dem. He's right, though this doesn't change the larger point.]
Wallace believes the Dems’ “filibuster proof majority in the Senate” lasted 24 months. In reality, he’s off by 20 months, undermining the entire thesis pushed so aggressively by Republicans. Source
You should still be able to get a fair bit passed in a mere four months of a filibuster-proof Senate. Also, while that does mention independents (which is good that they mention that), a few left-ish Republicans, in my experience, can be convinced to vote with the Democrats. 57-59 isn't enough, no, but you only need 1-3 more members to join your cause, and it's naturally easier to accomplish than 5-10 members when the two sides are more evenly numbered. You might say it's true the other way around too, but it appears to me to be much rarer for Dems to vote conservatively, especially when they have a majority, even if it's not filibuster-proof. (that goes into part of my reasoning about government size, but that's a bit of a tangent off of this specific topic of Senatorial majority)
On September 25 2012 03:46 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 03:29 cLAN.Anax wrote: Lolwut? Dems won't pass a bill that cuts programs and government spending; Reps won't pass a bill that raises taxes. (that's what I keep hearing from them in the news, anyway) I think Bronze's quote that you bolded hit the nail on the head: nobody wants to compromise because everyone's too entrenched in their own side on the political spectrum.
Democrats had their shining opportunity back in 2008-09 to pass stuff like mad when they had majority in both Houses and in the White House. Now they're gonna blame Republicans for being "too partisan?" As if they can only pass stuff now and not earlier? Uh-uh, they lost their chance. It's now back to the slow, slow process of incessant debate and very little getting through. Republicans won't pass ANYTHING with a tax increase in it, while Democrats, for the most part, are willing to pass relatively large cuts for some tax increases, otherwise only very minor cuts. Democrats represent a rather varied set of voters and ideologies, which makes it much harder to pass legislation even with a majority. Even with the "Super Majority" in the Senate, you had Democrat Senators that simply would NOT vote for a bill without a Republican endorsement of it. Only so much can get done when one party is solidified in denying the other party any "victories." On the other side, you have Republicans that have only a winner-take-all approach to compromise. We saw this during the debt ceiling fiasco, where an extremely huge chunk of Congressmen would rather default on debt payments than come together on long term debt solutions. In the health care reform debate, you had Senators that supported a great number of the proposals in the bill back in the 90s, turn around and piss all over them 10 years later. It's nice when your platform revolves around breaking government then complaining that government doesn't work, eh?
I see Republicans in the same light: you have a strong, highly-conservative base, but also many other left-leaning politicians as well. For example, it was difficult for me to choose a candidate from the GOP in 2008 because I didn't agree with them on at least a couple of key issues, and they tended to vary from candidate to candidate. Romney for his inconsistency, Ron Paul for his view on international policy, Huckabee for his stance on some social issues, etc. I'd say the current atmosphere of Reps is largely strongly conservative, but it's in the face of nothing but center-left and left politicians, so they kind of have to look ultra-right-wing so that voters can tell the difference between them and the opposing party.
Stimulus passed. That's probably as much compromise as enough Reps would allow, but it's compromise nonetheless. Based on how they interpreted the results of the stimulus, however, I doubt they'll cave in to even moderate bills. I haven't followed the health care debacle as well as I should (methinks no one really, fully understands that enormous document, lol), but personally I wouldn't support the parts of it for the same reasons that I wouldn't support the whole thing.
I think the reason why government doesn't work so well is because it's not "broken" enough. Actually, the way I see it, conservatives see the government as so large from the right-wing ideal that the changes being made through Congress are too minor; thus the government stays too big for them, and they (along with myself) complain.
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
So I just realized that with the new California districts, my Congressional district has changed... argh. This is all so confusing. The new districts look interesting though, to say the least. Seems like Democrats are an easy lock for my new district (high Latino population with a Latino representative running).
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On September 25 2012 03:29 cLAN.Anax wrote: Republicans won't pass ANYTHING with a tax increase in it, while Democrats, for the most part, are willing to pass relatively large cuts for some tax increases, otherwise only very minor cuts. Democrats represent a rather varied set of voters and ideologies, which makes it much harder to pass legislation even with a majority. Even with the "Super Majority" in the Senate, you had Democrat Senators that simply would NOT vote for a bill without a Republican endorsement of it. Only so much can get done when one party is solidified in denying the other party any "victories."
On the other side, you have Republicans that have only a winner-take-all approach to compromise. We saw this during the debt ceiling fiasco, where an extremely huge chunk of Congressmen would rather default on debt payments than come together on long term debt solutions. In the health care reform debate, you had Senators that supported a great number of the proposals in the bill back in the 90s, turn around and piss all over them 10 years later.
It's nice when your platform revolves around breaking government then complaining that government doesn't work, eh?
Somewhat untrue and dismissive of the facts. Many Republicans have tried to compromise with Democrats. The Speaker of the house pushed a proposal sometime last year that offered 800 billion in tax increases,of course with appropriate spending cuts as well. As you so fondly put it " Democrats, for the most part, are willing to pass relatively large cuts for some tax increases", well in this case Democrats reneged from the deal. Surely if the House's top Republican is ready to come to the table, the rest will follow. Remember Paul Ryan (Romney's running mate) compromising with Ron Wyden? Their plan serves as a model of how congress should act.
Dont blame the debt-ceiling fiasco on Republicans soley, Democrats had a part in it too.
Oh and healthcare reform in the 90's, are you referring to Hillarycare? Democrats at the time shunned it, Republicans even more.
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On September 30 2012 21:02 th3j35t3r wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 03:29 cLAN.Anax wrote: Republicans won't pass ANYTHING with a tax increase in it, while Democrats, for the most part, are willing to pass relatively large cuts for some tax increases, otherwise only very minor cuts. Democrats represent a rather varied set of voters and ideologies, which makes it much harder to pass legislation even with a majority. Even with the "Super Majority" in the Senate, you had Democrat Senators that simply would NOT vote for a bill without a Republican endorsement of it. Only so much can get done when one party is solidified in denying the other party any "victories."
On the other side, you have Republicans that have only a winner-take-all approach to compromise. We saw this during the debt ceiling fiasco, where an extremely huge chunk of Congressmen would rather default on debt payments than come together on long term debt solutions. In the health care reform debate, you had Senators that supported a great number of the proposals in the bill back in the 90s, turn around and piss all over them 10 years later.
It's nice when your platform revolves around breaking government then complaining that government doesn't work, eh? Somewhat untrue and dismissive of the facts. Many Republicans have tried to compromise with Democrats. The Speaker of the house pushed a proposal sometime last year that offered 800 billion in tax increases,of course with appropriate spending cuts as well. As you so fondly put it " Democrats, for the most part, are willing to pass relatively large cuts for some tax increases", well in this case Democrats reneged from the deal. Surely if the House's top Republican is ready to come to the table, the rest will follow. Remember Paul Ryan (Romney's running mate) compromising with Ron Wyden? Their plan serves as a model of how congress should act. Dont blame the debt-ceiling fiasco on Republicans soley, Democrats had a part in it too. Oh and healthcare reform in the 90's, are you referring to Hillarycare? Democrats at the time shunned it, Republicans even more.
Concerning the Speaker, I think he's actually one of the most open people out there, even if he's pretty deep into his party.
Obama and Boehner have been buddies on Congressional matters compared to some of the other inter-party relationships out there.
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I hope Art Robinson beats Peter DeFazio!
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i'm jealous of my brother, he gets to vote for Issa.
i have to settle for Duncan D. Hunter
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One more month till election day.
Those ads are really getting vitriolic now. Five ads in one commercial break, all of them contradicting each other. And all five talking shit about candidates. No positives.
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On October 02 2012 01:42 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: One more month till election day.
Those ads are really getting vitriolic now. Five ads in one commercial break, all of them contradicting each other. And all five talking shit about candidates. No positives.
Still waiting for my absentee ballot. Brother already got his and we go to the same school. How did that work out, lol? X-D I know who I'm voting for though, so at least I can send it in quickly once it arrives in the mail.
I was at a Buffalo Wild Wings this past weekend, and since there are a bajillion TVs, of course I was gonna see some political ads. Both/all sides' commercials looked terrible, I can't believe they're so effective on the populace when they're 30-second blurbs dispersing totally misconstrued falsities of their opponent. Honestly, none of them change my mind on the candidates at all. >_<
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On October 02 2012 02:02 cLAN.Anax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 01:42 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: One more month till election day.
Those ads are really getting vitriolic now. Five ads in one commercial break, all of them contradicting each other. And all five talking shit about candidates. No positives. Still waiting for my absentee ballot. Brother already got his and we go to the same school. How did that work out, lol? X-D I know who I'm voting for though, so at least I can send it in quickly once it arrives in the mail. I was at a Buffalo Wild Wings this past weekend, and since there are a bajillion TVs, of course I was gonna see some political ads. Both/all sides' commercials looked terrible, I can't believe they're so effective on the populace when they're 30-second blurbs dispersing totally misconstrued falsities of their opponent. Honestly, none of them change my mind on the candidates at all. >_<
Well the whole point of those ads at this point is just to convince the people who haven't picked a candidate. A lot of those people are susceptible to those kinds of ads, especially if they're uninformed for whatever reason.
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On October 02 2012 04:21 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 02:02 cLAN.Anax wrote:On October 02 2012 01:42 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: One more month till election day.
Those ads are really getting vitriolic now. Five ads in one commercial break, all of them contradicting each other. And all five talking shit about candidates. No positives. Still waiting for my absentee ballot. Brother already got his and we go to the same school. How did that work out, lol? X-D I know who I'm voting for though, so at least I can send it in quickly once it arrives in the mail. I was at a Buffalo Wild Wings this past weekend, and since there are a bajillion TVs, of course I was gonna see some political ads. Both/all sides' commercials looked terrible, I can't believe they're so effective on the populace when they're 30-second blurbs dispersing totally misconstrued falsities of their opponent. Honestly, none of them change my mind on the candidates at all. >_< Well the whole point of those ads at this point is just to convince the people who haven't picked a candidate. A lot of those people are susceptible to those kinds of ads, especially if they're uninformed for whatever reason.
Yeah, I know. But it's frustrating that people would use those ads to help them determine a candidate. I just wish we had a more informed citizenry, or at least folks that wanted to inform themselves, and refused the rhetoric offered by TV commercials.
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Got my absentee ballot in the mail yesterday. Man, it's tough to decipher "law-speak." My local and state laws are getting a few amendments and they're hard as heck to comprehend, lol. (it's not a problem with the laws themselves, just the way they are worded)
Heard something interesting on the radio this morning. McCaskill had an ad poking at Akin, asserting that former conservative politicians (including Talent, Bond, and Ashcroft) don't recommend him as a candidate. Again, it's from the Akin's opponent specifically to jab at his run for the Senate, but I'll have to rethink if I want the Libertarian candidate or not instead.
Which brings me to another point: I don't like how deeply entrenched we're in the two-party system. I'd LOVE to have more prominent independent candidates. Can't vote for the Pres. or a Senator like that 'cause they don't stand a chance of winning. I think starting at the local level is best for bringing non-Dem and non-Rep politicians to viability. I sincerely think they represent America more accurately, and it's also partially led me to my statist/republic views.
Would love to hear thoughts on that: independents gaining ground, what will it take? Government requirement? "Grassroots," from-the-ground-up support? Trial and error through the states? Or SHOULD it even be espoused at all?
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Agreed on having more independents in office.
I watched the senatorial debates on Wednesday and I noticed that it was probably the only time the non-incumbent candidate got a chance to voice his opinions. The incumbent guy, Bob Menendez, is probably one of the shittiest senators out there, but he's expected to get 70 percent of the vote because nobody knows who his opponent is.
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*sigh* I can't stand watching debates, really of anything. It's as caustic as the TV ads, but with more awful speaking since they have to actually reply to their opponent(s). Gonna load up my state's debate and watch it tonight probably, though it likely won't change my views on any of them. The Libertarian guy might get my vote even, lol.
Speaking of which, do you (or anyone for that matter) plan on voting independent for any of the positions? Pres. and Senator seem too unlikely in my opinion, but the Congressional Representatives seem possible, and I'd argue it only gets more plausible as you go further down the ranks, like Mayor, Councilmen and -women, and judges.
+ Show Spoiler [RE: Akin] +So it was true. He was asked to step down because of his comments. A month later, though, after the apology I assume, they switched a second time and backed him again.
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At least Rick Perry won't be our president. Although our two frontrunners only look better by comparison, than by merit alone.
Presidential ads don't need to have any positive aspects. Americans respond to fear, to deep voices and scowling faces, to grayscaled candidates. People say they're tired of these kind of ads, but I am doubtful that were they not effective on a meaningful scale that they would keep using them, especially with the slew of people in a campaign office whose sole job is to study what voters respond to in advertisements.
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On October 15 2012 06:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: At least Rick Perry won't be our president. Although our two frontrunners only look better by comparison, than by merit alone.
Presidential ads don't need to have any positive aspects. Americans respond to fear, to deep voices and scowling faces, to grayscaled candidates. People say they're tired of these kind of ads, but I am doubtful that were they not effective on a meaningful scale that they would keep using them, especially with the slew of people in a campaign office whose sole job is to study what voters respond to in advertisements.
Question, then: do YOU vote because of what you hear or see in the ads, or do you vote for the candidates whose policies align most with yours and whose track records are most consistent with your beliefs? I think you're right when you say most Americans are sick of the ads and probably tell you and I that they don't affect their position, and yet people are still affected by them. But these people gotta come from somewhere, and I just don't know where....
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On October 15 2012 07:27 cLAN.Anax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 06:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: At least Rick Perry won't be our president. Although our two frontrunners only look better by comparison, than by merit alone.
Presidential ads don't need to have any positive aspects. Americans respond to fear, to deep voices and scowling faces, to grayscaled candidates. People say they're tired of these kind of ads, but I am doubtful that were they not effective on a meaningful scale that they would keep using them, especially with the slew of people in a campaign office whose sole job is to study what voters respond to in advertisements. Question, then: do YOU vote because of what you hear or see in the ads, or do you vote for the candidates whose policies align most with yours and whose track records are most consistent with your beliefs? I think you're right when you say most Americans are sick of the ads and probably tell you and I that they don't affect their position, and yet people are still affected by them. But these people gotta come from somewhere, and I just don't know where.... It is basically a cycle of bullshit to be sure. The media has a whole has a more powerful effect on people than they really anticipate. On the other hand, the media also shows us what we will tune in to. People can criticize the media for the excessive coverage of celebrities, and Justin Bieber's haircut, but it would not be shown if it did not generate numbers. Same with any court case involving a pretty white woman/ missing white girl. In a way the criticism of coverage itself draws attention to the story.
Ultimately, our culture is a projection of the more common values. We are fed bullshit, but we also produce bullshit. It's a mess. To address it's source, we have to dig so deep into our history, our values, superstitions, fears, pride, etc.
To be fair these ads aren't meant to get undecided voters. Most people like one more than the other from the get-go (as well as do to the two-party mindless follower system). What the ads are supposed to do is appeal to your emotions, namely fear and hate, so rile you up enough so that you actually WILL go out and vote. People who aren't emotionally invested, and the apathetic, typically do not vote. We must rattle their world!
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On October 15 2012 06:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: At least Rick Perry won't be our president. Although our two frontrunners only look better by comparison, than by merit alone.
Presidential ads don't need to have any positive aspects. Americans respond to fear, to deep voices and scowling faces, to grayscaled candidates. People say they're tired of these kind of ads, but I am doubtful that were they not effective on a meaningful scale that they would keep using them, especially with the slew of people in a campaign office whose sole job is to study what voters respond to in advertisements.
Perry's a good governor (more liberal than people think), although I agree he shouldn't be president.
The real reason the ads are the way they are, however, isn't more about people falling for the same thing over and over again entirely. By this point, those kind of people have already made an educated decision about which of the two (if any) they're going to vote for. The ads, debates, and all that other nonsense is just for the undecided voters, most of whom respond well to this kind of advertising and blunt black-and-white politics.
They don't need to target the people making educated voting decisions because it would take too much time and effort and those people are already gone. When Romney said his thing about the "47%" who weren't voting for him, he's absolutely correct and all politicians have a similar mentality to this.
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On October 15 2012 07:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 06:59 MountainDewJunkie wrote: At least Rick Perry won't be our president. Although our two frontrunners only look better by comparison, than by merit alone.
Presidential ads don't need to have any positive aspects. Americans respond to fear, to deep voices and scowling faces, to grayscaled candidates. People say they're tired of these kind of ads, but I am doubtful that were they not effective on a meaningful scale that they would keep using them, especially with the slew of people in a campaign office whose sole job is to study what voters respond to in advertisements. Perry's a good governor (more liberal than people think), although I agree he shouldn't be president. The real reason the ads are the way they are, however, isn't more about people falling for the same thing over and over again entirely. By this point, those kind of people have already made an educated decision about which of the two (if any) they're going to vote for. The ads, debates, and all that other nonsense is just for the undecided voters, most of whom respond well to this kind of advertising and blunt black-and-white politics. They don't need to target the people making educated voting decisions because it would take too much time and effort and those people are already gone. When Romney said his thing about the "47%" who weren't voting for him, he's absolutely correct and all politicians have a similar mentality to this. Also a good point. And I enjoyed that people were trying to paint Romney as an asshole for that comment, when it's actually the most honest thing I've heard a candidate say.
EDIT: OMG everyone I'm so sorry, I thought this was the Presidential Election thread, this is the congressional thread ahhhh dammit alllll Derailment, derailment, derailment.
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