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United States44410 Posts
On August 23 2012 23:58 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:51 Gene wrote:
If youre in a position where it really appears that sex (realistically, and consensually) is an option, there's really no fault for just making sure. How many times I've been told "I only said no to see if you cared enough to try again" is infuriating. With regards to sex, a date, love in general, you name it. You can't blame a guy for only asking when so many women reinforce the behavior and at times romanticizing it. This. Sex in the UK is not about love anymore, it's about 17 year olds wanting to do it. Part of the problem is the culture these days in the UK (and probably other countries, but I can't speak for them), losing your virginity and "banging many chicks" is the cool thing to do now. Part of this problem I believe is the way that women (a lot of them still in their teens) behave. If you've seen pictures or heard stories or read articles about UK social aspects (clubs and bars), you'd know that UK girls egg boys/men on. If a girl is practically grinding themselves against you, you go back to either of your houses etc, sex is a strong possibility. While it's wrong men assume they should get sex, it's not entirely their fault. If a girl behaves like the "normal girl" but doesn't want sex, how is the man to know?
"How is a man to know?"
Because she said no.
It's not that difficult.
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On August 23 2012 23:59 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:57 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:53 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:31 KwarK wrote:On August 23 2012 23:27 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:20 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
...The golden rule imo is start, she says no you go "common"... No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF. I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase. Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it. You weren't being clear. One no is always enough. The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong. It's actually incredible. I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
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On August 23 2012 23:57 SunsetSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:53 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:31 KwarK wrote:On August 23 2012 23:27 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:20 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
...The golden rule imo is start, she says no you go "common"... No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF. I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase. Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it. You weren't being clear. One no is always enough. The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong. It's actually incredible.
I'm as stupified at this as you. I can't even believe how they are justifying or redescribing it. One No and you stop. No more.
Yes NeMeSiS3, that's a good way to have a discussion. Comment on the mistyped letter instead of the issue. Now I think you are trolling.
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United States44410 Posts
On August 24 2012 00:01 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:57 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:53 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:31 KwarK wrote:On August 23 2012 23:27 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:20 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
...The golden rule imo is start, she says no you go "common"... No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF. I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase. Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it. You weren't being clear. One no is always enough. The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong. It's actually incredible. ... Oh so women know everything? Well it's ironic that you two speak for all women on earth in extremely condescending fashion, the irony. To be frank, I've had this discussion with multiple women on multiple occasions and they think it's absolutely reasonable to pry the 2nd question... I was being very clear, you should have quoted the whole line. I said (paraphrased) that if the girl says no (not to directly saying "sex" but the actions leading to it) and you can choose to pry with questions like "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc and they say no again that is the rule. This whole "no means no" bullshit is ridiculous because women apparently can beg and beg and beg for sex but men get the "no means no" because it happens more often? talk about hypocritical.
Hypocrisy is when you expect a different standard for yourself to the standard you hold others to. Asking again may be coercive when done by a man for a multitude of reasons which do not apply to women. Both physical intimidation and the capacity to rape and for a fuckload of rape culture reasons. The situations are not directly comparable and therefore your accusation of hypocrisy misses the mark.
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On August 24 2012 00:01 SunsetSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:59 KwarK wrote:On August 23 2012 23:57 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:53 NeMeSiS3 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:31 KwarK wrote:On August 23 2012 23:27 SunsetSC2 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:20 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
...The golden rule imo is start, she says no you go "common"... No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF. I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase. Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it. You weren't being clear. One no is always enough. The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong. It's actually incredible. I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no. In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333 No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
He was talking about asking his girlfriend. That's not a vulnerable situation.
This whole stupid debate of the last 10 posts happens because NO MEANS NO is just a slogan and not applicable to the real world. In reality it's about gaining and withdrawing consent. If a girl says no there are plenty of situations where she means "not right now" or "I don't really feel like it, but maybe I can be convinced". People in general are smart enough to navigate through these waters.
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On August 24 2012 00:01 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:58 Tao367 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:51 Gene wrote:
If youre in a position where it really appears that sex (realistically, and consensually) is an option, there's really no fault for just making sure. How many times I've been told "I only said no to see if you cared enough to try again" is infuriating. With regards to sex, a date, love in general, you name it. You can't blame a guy for only asking when so many women reinforce the behavior and at times romanticizing it. This. Sex in the UK is not about love anymore, it's about 17 year olds wanting to do it. Part of the problem is the culture these days in the UK (and probably other countries, but I can't speak for them), losing your virginity and "banging many chicks" is the cool thing to do now. Part of this problem I believe is the way that women (a lot of them still in their teens) behave. If you've seen pictures or heard stories or read articles about UK social aspects (clubs and bars), you'd know that UK girls egg boys/men on. If a girl is practically grinding themselves against you, you go back to either of your houses etc, sex is a strong possibility. While it's wrong men assume they should get sex, it's not entirely their fault. If a girl behaves like the "normal girl" but doesn't want sex, how is the man to know? "How is a man to know?" Because she said no. It's not that difficult.
Yeah I worded that wrong. I guess I meant to say, both are usually drunk out of their heads at this point, anything that happens can't be accountable to either person I meant by that. I typed it in a rush before.
Still, it doesn't change the fact that in my opinion its the culture and social aspects of life that are the root of the cause, not the definition of rape itself. It's subjective and will change from person to person. The culture is for girls to go out looking "hot" which will naturally cause guys to notice/want to have sex with them. It's assumed by men to be the case, when it probably isn't. I still think a lot of women are scared to say no however, and do it because they're scared of "angering" the bloke in question, and part of the reason they say they were raped is because they felt intimidated.
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Haha idk if never putting myself in the position of having a stranger grinding on me flaws my perspective or enhances it. But I suppose it certainly changes the nature of my question.
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On August 24 2012 00:01 Reason wrote:In the General Forum, you willl find threads about Starcraft are pretty rare. Everyone knows no means no, anybody saying otherwise is either an idiot trying to be funny which honestly is to be expected on the internet, get used it or Alternatively it's somebody trying to argue semantics by giving hypothetical situations, which is exactly what this thread calls for because the question is "What is rape?" followed by various definitions. Try not to get angry at people exploring a subject in their own way and try not to feel like you have the right to come in here and lay down the law and speak down to everyone else just because you are a woman. Most of what you said is true, but actually one of the posts I was most disappointed with in this thread was yours... somehow I expected more. "No means no" isn't a suitable definition of rape which is why we are having this discussion in the first place, so entering into a complicated debate and saying NO MEANS NO OMFGWTFBBQ as if everyone here with any sort of idea or opinion that is more sophisticated than that is wrong............ is pointless and irritating.
Wow, really?
Someone asked for a woman's opinion and I gave it.
Sorry, I guess we shouldn't speak to African-Americans about civil rights either?
You are all men - any wrong decision any of you happen to make in this regard, women are the victims.
I'm not angry, I'm...bewildered, to an extent, and frightened about behavior people feel is appropriate.
I'm sorry to have disappointed you so much.
My "back to Starcraft" comment was supposed to be flippant.
If a woman says no and you continue, it is rape - that is not me on a high horse, that's how it is.
I understand that the definitions by law was where this thread started, and I apologise.
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Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me no more.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On August 23 2012 23:58 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:51 Gene wrote:
If youre in a position where it really appears that sex (realistically, and consensually) is an option, there's really no fault for just making sure. How many times I've been told "I only said no to see if you cared enough to try again" is infuriating. With regards to sex, a date, love in general, you name it. You can't blame a guy for only asking when so many women reinforce the behavior and at times romanticizing it. This. Sex in the UK is not about love anymore, it's about 17 year olds wanting to do it. Part of the problem is the culture these days in the UK (and probably other countries, but I can't speak for them), losing your virginity and "banging many chicks" is the cool thing to do now. Part of this problem I believe is the way that women (a lot of them still in their teens) behave. If you've seen pictures or heard stories or read articles about UK social aspects (clubs and bars), you'd know that UK girls egg boys/men on. If a girl is practically grinding themselves against you, you go back to either of your houses etc, sex is a strong possibility. While it's wrong men assume they should get sex, it's not entirely their fault. If a girl behaves like the "normal girl" but doesn't want sex, how is the man to know?
Simple:
Ask "would you like to have sex?"
Seriously, victim blaming is just silly. It's VERY easy to confirm consent and only takes a few moments.
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On August 24 2012 00:07 SunsetSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:01 Reason wrote:On August 23 2012 23:17 SunsetSC2 wrote:
...Back to Starcraft.
In the General Forum, you willl find threads about Starcraft are pretty rare. Everyone knows no means no, anybody saying otherwise is either an idiot trying to be funny which honestly is to be expected on the internet, get used it or Alternatively it's somebody trying to argue semantics by giving hypothetical situations, which is exactly what this thread calls for because the question is "What is rape?" followed by various definitions. Try not to get angry at people exploring a subject in their own way and try not to feel like you have the right to come in here and lay down the law and speak down to everyone else just because you are a woman. Most of what you said is true, but actually one of the posts I was most disappointed with in this thread was yours... somehow I expected more. "No means no" isn't a suitable definition of rape which is why we are having this discussion in the first place, so entering into a complicated debate and saying NO MEANS NO OMFGWTFBBQ as if everyone here with any sort of idea or opinion that is more sophisticated than that is wrong............ is pointless and irritating. Wow, really? Someone asked for a woman's opinion and I gave it. Sorry, I guess we shouldn't speak to African-Americans about civil rights either? You are all men - any wrong decision any of you happen to make in this regard, women are the victims. I'm not angry, I'm...bewildered, to an extent, and frightened about behavior people feel is appropriate. I'm sorry to have disappointed you so much. My "back to Starcraft" comment was supposed to be flippant. If a woman says no and you continue, it is rape - that is not me on a high horse, that's how it is. I understand that the definitions by law was where this thread started, and I apologise.
You know you can be quite the misquoting condescending i+ Show Spoiler +thought I'd say bitch ^^ got ya
On August 24 2012 00:05 S:klogW wrote:
Happy birthday KwarK!
Happy birthday! I knew something looked odd it went from Red to party shit lol
On August 24 2012 00:08 Paperplane wrote:
Baby don't hurt me. Don't hurt me no more.
User was temp banned for this post.
Already taken bro, get your shit together lol 
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I don't know if this has been mentioned but by the UK's definition, females can't commit rape :O.
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On August 24 2012 00:07 SunsetSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:01 Reason wrote:On August 23 2012 23:17 SunsetSC2 wrote:
...Back to Starcraft.
In the General Forum, you willl find threads about Starcraft are pretty rare. Everyone knows no means no, anybody saying otherwise is either an idiot trying to be funny which honestly is to be expected on the internet, get used it or Alternatively it's somebody trying to argue semantics by giving hypothetical situations, which is exactly what this thread calls for because the question is "What is rape?" followed by various definitions. Try not to get angry at people exploring a subject in their own way and try not to feel like you have the right to come in here and lay down the law and speak down to everyone else just because you are a woman. Most of what you said is true, but actually one of the posts I was most disappointed with in this thread was yours... somehow I expected more. "No means no" isn't a suitable definition of rape which is why we are having this discussion in the first place, so entering into a complicated debate and saying NO MEANS NO OMFGWTFBBQ as if everyone here with any sort of idea or opinion that is more sophisticated than that is wrong............ is pointless and irritating. Wow, really? Someone asked for a woman's opinion and I gave it. Sorry, I guess we shouldn't speak to African-Americans about civil rights either? You are all men - any wrong decision any of you happen to make in this regard, women are the victims. I'm not angry, I'm...bewildered, to an extent, and frightened about behavior people feel is appropriate. I'm sorry to have disappointed you so much. My "back to Starcraft" comment was supposed to be flippant. If a woman says no and you continue, it is rape - that is not me on a high horse, that's how it is. I understand that the definitions by law was where this thread started, and I apologise.
I agree with you. In a perfect world it would be that simple. The fact is, (at least in the UK) from what I've read, women are starting to lose more and more cases that make it to court about rape because it's becoming a part of the culture to have sex after a night out and the rise of the prominence of one night stands. It's a culultral issue as much as a legal one. Both men and women look for people to have sex with that night, but women think they have more power in rape cases, which in my view is appauling. It's like the gender equality campaigners that want women equal pay, but still get preferential treatment in child custody cases etc. Nobody knows what went on that night except the two people in question.
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On August 24 2012 00:10 Djzapz wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but by the UK's definition, females can't commit rape :O.
Once it happens, the laws will change. And really, it is very rare to the point that the justice system might as well focus on other issues.
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On August 24 2012 00:09 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2012 23:58 Tao367 wrote:On August 23 2012 23:51 Gene wrote:
If youre in a position where it really appears that sex (realistically, and consensually) is an option, there's really no fault for just making sure. How many times I've been told "I only said no to see if you cared enough to try again" is infuriating. With regards to sex, a date, love in general, you name it. You can't blame a guy for only asking when so many women reinforce the behavior and at times romanticizing it. This. Sex in the UK is not about love anymore, it's about 17 year olds wanting to do it. Part of the problem is the culture these days in the UK (and probably other countries, but I can't speak for them), losing your virginity and "banging many chicks" is the cool thing to do now. Part of this problem I believe is the way that women (a lot of them still in their teens) behave. If you've seen pictures or heard stories or read articles about UK social aspects (clubs and bars), you'd know that UK girls egg boys/men on. If a girl is practically grinding themselves against you, you go back to either of your houses etc, sex is a strong possibility. While it's wrong men assume they should get sex, it's not entirely their fault. If a girl behaves like the "normal girl" but doesn't want sex, how is the man to know? Simple: Ask "would you like to have sex?" Seriously, victim blaming is just silly. It's VERY easy to confirm consent and only takes a few moments.
See my other post.
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United States44410 Posts
Nemesis, Sunset, I will moderate either of you if you continue a personal argument here.
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On August 24 2012 00:10 Djzapz wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but by the UK's definition, females can't commit rape :O.
I think that would be covered by sexual assault under certain circumstances. I really think that penetration needs to be excluded, because as it stands in the UK women really CAN'T rape men in the legal sense, which is an issue.
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On August 24 2012 00:11 Shiragaku wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:10 Djzapz wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but by the UK's definition, females can't commit rape :O. Once it happens, the laws will change. And really, it is very rare to the point that the justice system might as well focus on other issues.
I think one shouldn't argue that rarity equates to allowance... Obviously that is wrong and should quickly be corrected.
On August 24 2012 00:11 KwarK wrote:
Nemesis, Sunset, I will moderate either of you if you continue a personal argument here.
You da boss
On August 24 2012 00:12 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 00:10 Djzapz wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but by the UK's definition, females can't commit rape :O. I think that would be covered by sexual assault under certain circumstances. I really think that penetration needs to be excluded, because as it stands in the UK women really CAN'T rape men in the legal sense, which is an issue.
What about Strap ons? Seriously, that is penetrating ^^
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Sorry, guys. I fail to see how I have any attitude compared to anyone else here.
You wanted to know a woman's point of view about what constituted rape and I gave it.
I honestly hope you all understand that sex is a sensitive issue and not every woman is trying to fuck with your head when she says no.
I'll leave you to it.
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EPT
