No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF.
I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
My apologies then, but even not in a relationship you can get a feel for a person, and know that this can be ok.
And what do you suppose happens when you get it wrong? Here's an idea: if she says no, assume that it's not her own personal opposite day and that she actually means it.
On August 23 2012 23:20 NeMeSiS3 wrote: ...The golden rule imo is start, she says no you go "common"...
No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF.
I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
On August 24 2012 00:17 Kevan wrote: If a girl tells you that she wants you to rape her, should it even be called rape then? It might be forced and there may be threats of violence or even just actual violence. Like you kind of have her consent but don't have her consent but you have her consent to not have it.
If a person tells you they want you to rape them, it's not rape. At that point, it's consensual rough sex. Nothing more.
This is something that should only be attempted in a relationship in which you know and trust the other partner and even then it should be prenegotiated to a ridiculous degree. As with all BDSM play, keep it safe, sane and consensual. There are some sex things which you just can't safely do with strangers or near strangers, it's unfortunate but that's the way it is.
Yes, common sense should prevail, but if the situation mentioned ever happened, it's not rape. There is genuinely no reason for a girl to claim she was raped at this point.
What if she was gagged and tied up and couldn't actually say stop when she really wanted it to stop for some reason? Would that be classified as rape?
No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF.
I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
My apologies then, but even not in a relationship you can get a feel for a person, and know that this can be ok.
And what do you suppose happens when you get it wrong? Here's an idea: if she says no, assume that it's not her own personal opposite day and that she actually means it.
More importantly, if she doesn't say yes, then consent is also not given. "Lack of a no" does not make any sense.
And quite frankly, you should really discuss things like that before they actually happen.
BDSMers tend to take consent pretty seriously, for exactly these reasons. And because I think this is fairly relevant to the conversation I'm going to post it again.
No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF.
I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
No, see, if she says no ONCE, you stop. Seriously. WTF.
I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
My apologies then, but even not in a relationship you can get a feel for a person, and know that this can be ok.
And what do you suppose happens when you get it wrong? Here's an idea: if she says no, assume that it's not her own personal opposite day and that she actually means it.
You misunderstand, I do not suggest that you do anything that could be contrued as sexual assault or even harassement, but there are situations where it is acceptable to not drop the matter instantly. Making an effort not to be creepy is ofcourse a good idea.
On August 24 2012 00:17 Kevan wrote: If a girl tells you that she wants you to rape her, should it even be called rape then? It might be forced and there may be threats of violence or even just actual violence. Like you kind of have her consent but don't have her consent but you have her consent to not have it.
If a person tells you they want you to rape them, it's not rape. At that point, it's consensual rough sex. Nothing more.
This is something that should only be attempted in a relationship in which you know and trust the other partner and even then it should be prenegotiated to a ridiculous degree. As with all BDSM play, keep it safe, sane and consensual. There are some sex things which you just can't safely do with strangers or near strangers, it's unfortunate but that's the way it is.
Yes, common sense should prevail, but if the situation mentioned ever happened, it's not rape. There is genuinely no reason for a girl to claim she was raped at this point.
What if she was gagged and tied up and couldn't actually say stop when she really wanted it to stop for some reason? Would that be classified as rape?
Rape =/= bondage. I thought it was just intercourse that was implied. But at that point, I agree with what KwarK said that it shouldn't be done with strangers. If this situation ever occurs, it's up to the individual person's ethics at that point if that constitutes rape. If it got to the point where she was gagged and tied up, you would think she'd be okay with it. But, emergencies could happen. I'd imagine there would be some sort of way to get his attention, namely screaming.
On August 24 2012 00:17 Kevan wrote: If a girl tells you that she wants you to rape her, should it even be called rape then? It might be forced and there may be threats of violence or even just actual violence. Like you kind of have her consent but don't have her consent but you have her consent to not have it.
If a person tells you they want you to rape them, it's not rape. At that point, it's consensual rough sex. Nothing more.
This is something that should only be attempted in a relationship in which you know and trust the other partner and even then it should be prenegotiated to a ridiculous degree. As with all BDSM play, keep it safe, sane and consensual. There are some sex things which you just can't safely do with strangers or near strangers, it's unfortunate but that's the way it is.
Yes, common sense should prevail, but if the situation mentioned ever happened, it's not rape. There is genuinely no reason for a girl to claim she was raped at this point.
What if she was gagged and tied up and couldn't actually say stop when she really wanted it to stop for some reason? Would that be classified as rape?
Don't attempt that play unless you're willing to take that risk. Pre-negotiate every aspect of what you're going to do and obtain explicit written consent immediately before the play. No safeword play is extremely dangerous and should only be attempted by advanced BDSM practitioners for exactly that reason. This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand though.
On August 23 2012 23:31 KwarK wrote: [quote] I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
My apologies then, but even not in a relationship you can get a feel for a person, and know that this can be ok.
And what do you suppose happens when you get it wrong? Here's an idea: if she says no, assume that it's not her own personal opposite day and that she actually means it.
More importantly, if she doesn't say yes, then consent is also not given. "Lack of a no" does not make any sense.
And quite frankly, you should really discuss things like that before they actually happen.
If you've had a fling sometimes the yes is supposedly implied, and men end up in court for consensual sex. Should condoms come packaged with a consent form, and UV lights to verify that her ID that shows she's over 18 is indeed legit?
On August 23 2012 23:31 KwarK wrote: [quote] I think what he was trying to say was that when they say "no" he stops, briefly pleads for sex and if they don't change their mind he leaves. I don't think he meant that he was thrusting during the "come on, please?" phase.
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez
Talk about a massive misquote... Let's take a single part of the sentence and destroy the entire meaning of it.
You weren't being clear. One no is always enough.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez
I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average?
I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez
I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average?
I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men.
My belief is this:
it's all about social and culultral values. It's the age old example of "if a woman gets raped and reports it, she's brave." Conversely, "if a man gets raped by a woman and reports it, he gets laughed at and ridiculed for being raped by a woman." It's gender expectations that's the issue here, not rape itself in my opinion.
You know you can be quite the misquoting condescending [thought I'd say bitch ^^ got ya] But in all honesty, be the bigger person and don't reply to offtopic things with such an attitude... It really not only takes away from the discussion, it questions the validity of your posts since you obviously are turned to emotions really easily.
Holy mother of wow. This kind of passive indirect aggression is pathetic and extremely offensive. Is this your save-face exit strategy? Priceless. Unless you know SunsetSC2 personally or beforehand, I'd say this is very disgusting, especially with the topic here. If you this were real life and I hear you say this to a woman, I'd throw an elbow to your teeth immediately. And it won't even be an emotional reaction, just a way to stop you, period.
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez
I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average?
I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men.
In theory it doesn't, you could hypothetically raise a man with all the propaganda and sexuality that we project onto girls from an early age and then put them in an environment in which they're raised to feel that their purpose is to be objectified by women and that they don't have the right to their own body. Then tell them that they're wrong for feeling that they can say no and it's their fault anyway and that they're asking for it. Then get them drunk and put them in a strange environment with a physically intimidating woman who is aggressively pressuring them for sex. In that situation, sure, it reflects on women too. Until that happens though, welcome to rape culture. http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/this-is-what-rape-culture-looks-like/
The two women in this thread are telling you one no means no, and you're all actually arguing we're wrong.
It's actually incredible.
I don't think anyone is arguing that sex should continue following the no.
In other news, now it's your MOTHERFUCKING BIRTHDAY, MATE! <33333
No, I don't think people are saying that. I just think the issue ought to be completely dropped after the first no because saying no once is extremely difficult in vulnerable situations.
Oh please. I know my girlfriend well enough that I know when I can continue pursuing sex after she's said no the first time. Sometimes I will do it fairly agressively, and sometimes without success. She at times practically rapes me. We are both very secure with this, I don't know why this is a problem according to you.
I'm not talking about people in relationships, for crying out loud.
Actually that wasn't very clear and it could be misquoted that you were.
Frankly, speaking outside the limits of a relationship, I can't help but see no issue in a man who has been getting signs (they're rather simple) to press the subject. I can see that if a girl really means no, it should be obvious but a lot of the time they're drunk and giggling which gives men very mixed signals, especially if she has been hanging on your arm all night. Generally speaking, and I'll stick to this as I've never been commited for rape charges but have had my fair share of 1 night stands and everything in between that asking a second time with a question such as "are you sure" or "not tonight?" etc is completely acceptable and totally in the women being asked hands to shut down again, you can't argue "well she said no the first time, but he asked again and she said yes... That's rape! No that is consent and unless there was any physical trauma or threatening action I can't help but see no issue. Please go on to explain.
You can happily go "there was no threatening action" but you're a stranger to them and they may be in a strange environment. There's a fuckload of coercive rape culture shit that you simply don't know about because you're a man. I'm not saying that you were coercive or that you would ignore a "no" but you simply need to appear coercive for her decision to be influenced and you can't always tell how you are perceived. This is the grey area issue with pressuring with a stranger.
Exactly so it's grey, how do you handle grey areas? One the woman should learn to understand her rights and be more entitled to herself, I can't understand how a man can say "no" and be begged and begged (which happens, women are notorious for begging for sex when their partner or non-partner aren't interested) but a man asks once or twice and he comes off as the rapist if she agrees and regrets the next day... Hell I've had regret sex, I: think it's a very natural thing. You get drunk, you can't tell what's what and you have sex with a girl who isn't attractive in the personality or physicality sense but she came on to you and you just kinda fell into it, would that be rape because I never said yes or no? .
I'm really confused by your question. You concede there may be grey areas in which their consent is granted based upon intimidation, even if the guy didn't intend to coerce the victim but you don't know how to handle them? Avoid the grey area, exactly as Sunset said.
"There's this situation where I may accidentally rape someone if I do this thing, how do I handle it?" "Don't do that thing" Jeez
I understand that haha, I as more questioning why one is acceptable and one is not, why can a man be placed into an awkward position where he repeatedly gets asked for sex while a women has more liberty in that subject. Is it because of the rarity of men getting raped? But with respect to that, are men really getting "regret sex" more than women? I mean people just don't think of it as rape because it was the guy and men are stereotypically sex hungry fiends that think of sex 34 times a day while women only do it 19 times a day on average?
I suppose I'm just curious as to why the grey area only reflects onto men.
I think there are real differences between the sexes that are relevant. On average women are much more emtionally distraught by such a thing than men.
You know you can be quite the misquoting condescending [thought I'd say bitch ^^ got ya] But in all honesty, be the bigger person and don't reply to offtopic things with such an attitude... It really not only takes away from the discussion, it questions the validity of your posts since you obviously are turned to emotions really easily.
Holy mother of wow. This kind of passive indirect aggression is pathetic and extremely offensive. Is this your save-face exit strategy? Priceless. Unless you know SunsetSC2 personally or beforehand, I'd say this is very disgusting, especially with the topic here. If you this were real life and I hear you say this to a woman, I'd throw an elbow to your teeth immediately. And it won't even be an emotional reaction, just a way to stop you, period.
First reaction is physical violence? Motion denied. Come on, don't be an animal.
Penalty should be immediate castration and forced to wear a collar with a large tag that reads I have no better control of myself that a rottweiler and deserved to be treated as one.
EPT
