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On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll.
Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week.
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On July 05 2012 04:50 Thenerf wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 04:03 Myrkskog wrote:
You sound like a bitter alternative model physicist who just found out that his life's work was a waste of time.
Just kidding, you don't sound like a scientist at all. It's already all been figured out? Please enlighten us so we can stop spending millions of dollars at CERN. Plus you getting the Nobel prize would spare us the dilemma of the 3 person limit. My alternative model is called relativity. Remember that? That thing that doesn't just fill charts full of non-descript particles which serve no practical purpose? You know the thing that describes how light, gravity, space, and time work? Theres a new damn particle every 5 years discovered, a bunch of old men pat themselves on the back and NOTHING CHANGES. I'm bitter because people like you say it's the standard model or no model. You people act like YOU make the rules instead of understand the existing ones.
General relativity is a classical theory, not a quantum theory. No matter how beautiful and appealing it is to you, it is incompatible with the quantum world, so will need revision. Standard model too will need some revision, but whether you like it or not it is the only theory we have consistent with all particle physics data.
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On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week.
Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week.
And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better.
And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle.
Lmfao, gotta love TL.
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For the love of god + Show Spoiler + don't derail this thread. Not speaking to anyone in particular.
Today is just so huge. I am floored. I wish I could have seen Higgs' face when he learned that the particle he theorized to exist has finally been found.
It's a milestone of human achievement, and we are all around to bear witness. Purely awesome!
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On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL.
I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is.
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On July 05 2012 09:46 Sovern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL. I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is.
Yet you still have the audacity to write 230 posts using a computer. No one believes your crusade against technology.
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On July 04 2012 11:52 GDbushido wrote:
"hey guys, we accidentally opened a portal to another dimension. you've all played half-life right? yeah, its kinda like that. sorry."
it's okay we've got gordon freema... err stephen hawking!
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On July 05 2012 09:46 Sovern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL. I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is.
"boring" is prety a pretty personal feeling.
Most of the people get bored watching SC2 games, but those who browse TL don't.
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On July 05 2012 06:42 GwSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 06:29 tokinho wrote:For those of you who actually care to know what it means to discover the higgs boson.. I suggest looking at the formula that it derives from.. I'm posting it here from a UCDavis theory professor from one of the advanced Quantum classes. (notice how the problem is question 1) http://nuclear.ucdavis.edu/~tgutierr/files/sml2.pdfIn layman terms.. discovering the higgs boson implies that the theory that we have is correct. Assuming that its assumptions hold true. "and then the haters beat god with a stick and god said prick." As someone with very limited science knowledge that looks insane. How do you even go about "showing" that? How long does it take to do so?
It is all about how much you use convenient notation. If you use the shortest "standard" notation, you can write the standard model Lagrangian (the formula in the problem) on a line or two. Something you can comfortably fit on a t-shirt.
Here they didn't bother using some of the short-hand notation, which forced them to write out a lot of the sums and functions, which brought them to a page. Still almost every term you see in that problem is still a sum of kindof many terms (each matching index in a term means a sum), so if you wanted to really write it out in it's full form, you could easily fill 10 pages, probably much more. 
By writing it out like this, it is much harder to see the structure though.
edit: I should probably also mention that you would never get that question on a test (it essentially asks you to solve physics up to now), and question number 1.1.1.1.1a, together with the unnecessarily long formulation makes it a fake, or at the very least a troll question, to about 5 sigma certainty.
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On July 05 2012 09:46 Sovern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL. I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is.
Technology does not have to mean you have a hectic life. The hectic life is a choice. The smartphone at all times being on the internet making you stressed is only in the head. Technology also means peace of mind through security like the ambulance only being a few minutes away from you should there be the need. There are no worries about enough food, clothes or cleanliness. I think you have more choice to shape your life to find inner peace nowadays than in the past.
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And people complain about comic sans, then say that cern is a waste of money! Comic sans just shows that no money has been wasted on scientifically irrelevant issues, like making of tasteful slides for biggest discovery in many decades. It's a sign to the sponsors. "We do NOT waste money!!" 
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On July 05 2012 09:58 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:46 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL. I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is. Technology does not have to mean you have a hectic life. The hectic life is a choice. The smartphone at all times being on the internet making you stressed is only in the head. Technology also means peace of mind through security like the ambulance only being a few minutes away from you should there be the need. There are no worries about enough food, clothes or cleanliness. I think you have more choice to shape your life to find inner peace nowadays than in the past.
Back on point: it's not like this discovery is going to somehow revolutionize technology. Sure there may be things that come out of it but surely nothing that an average person will be able to use on a daily basis.
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I never get these discussions of the advantages and disadvantages of technology that assume "technology = computers". The greatest technological discovery we've ever made is agriculture. All kinds of grains, painstakingly bred over thousands of years to work in different climates and conditions. Then there are all kinds of things that even the Amish and Old Order Mennonites use. Dental technology, for example. People have been doing fillings and bridges for thousands of years, working on better techniques and materials as they go.
I think that the connection between science and technology is often overstated. For example, dental technology would exist, in some form, without any science at all. However, in most cases technological development strongly depends on our ability to examine the world around us, an ability which is directly tied to basic science. For example, a huge chunk of our modern world depends on the microscope. It's not a coincidence that the earliest developers of the microscope was Gallileo.
Being able to examine the world is not enough. You don't want to look through a microscope and say, hey look, there's a few lines there, and wow, look at that pattern. You want to say, hey that's a cell. And you need to know what a cell is, and how it works, and so on, or the whole thing is useless. Discovering the Higgs boson is not about technological improvements. It's a small step in understanding the world a little better. I think that's worth celebrating...
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On July 05 2012 10:44 Seiferz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:58 Ropid wrote:On July 05 2012 09:46 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL. I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is. Technology does not have to mean you have a hectic life. The hectic life is a choice. The smartphone at all times being on the internet making you stressed is only in the head. Technology also means peace of mind through security like the ambulance only being a few minutes away from you should there be the need. There are no worries about enough food, clothes or cleanliness. I think you have more choice to shape your life to find inner peace nowadays than in the past. Back on point: it's not like this discovery is going to somehow revolutionize technology. Sure there may be things that come out of it but surely nothing that an average person will be able to use on a daily basis.
At least not anytime soon. Can't really say much for sure what will happen in 50 or 100 years. I myself really can't imagine what those applications would be, but I won't exclude that in the future someone comes up with something that I can't imagine right now.
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On July 05 2012 09:46 Sovern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:33 Flonomenalz wrote:On July 05 2012 08:59 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 08:55 Tachion wrote:On July 05 2012 08:52 Sovern wrote:On July 05 2012 06:20 GwSC wrote:On July 05 2012 05:39 Sovern wrote:
It's pretty sad to see people arguing that finding some particle will "prove religious people wrong" and are egocentric about their beliefs. It makes the atheists out to look just as bad as the theists that go around telling people that they're going to hell.
I'm an atheist myself but still find this discovery boring and pointless but that's just my own opinion. I'm sure that those same scientists also find having fun and artistic things to be pointless and boring.
Furthermore, it is in my opinion that all of these scientific finding's based around particle physics or physics in general are pointless as everything that is, will always be there meaning that all of the particles and laws that scientists say are laws actually already exist and "discovering" things that already exist such as this Higgs Boson particle does nothing to change things.
Its just the human nature of labeling things as discoveries, theory's, and laws when in actuality they aren't laws but reality's observed and decoded by the human mind. It didn't occur to you when you were typing this that these scientific discoveries are what allow us to have the technology that we do? Stuff like this has a lot more significance than just giving a bunch of scientists the ability to say "Ha! We were (almost certainly) right!". To be honest, I could care less about the technology that it enables. I'd actually prefer to live a live completely free from technology and being attached to materialistic things as its much more peaceful and slower paced than the modern industrial world that we live in. I refuse to believe that anyone could seriously type this while browsing internet forums for a computer game on their PC. 100% troll. Not a troll, I said that I'd rather life a life style free from technology even if that means partially free. Its one of the main reasons why I don't have a "smart" phone and could care less about all of the new technology findings. I believe that people that live a life away from technology live a more enjoyable and peaceful life than some business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. Ah yes, because everyone that lives a technologically influenced life is a business man in New York that is always on his smart phone and works 40+ hours a week. And woe betide anyone that actually ENJOYS that sort of hectic life style, something must be wrong with them, why living a peaceful, albeit boring, lifestyle on a farm in Amish country must be a lot better. And somehow, all of that contributes towards the discussion point of this thread, being the confirmation of the Higgs Boson particle. Lmfao, gotta love TL. I don't know anyone that enjoys a hectic lifestyle, but if you believe that a life free from technology is a "boring" life than I don't think that you have experienced nature for what it truly is.
A life "free from technology" won't be "boring."
A life "free from technology" will be short, cruel, and unpleasant.
You can thank technology for clean water, ample food, adequate shelter against weather, and medicine.
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On July 05 2012 09:25 vega12 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 04:50 Thenerf wrote:On July 05 2012 04:03 Myrkskog wrote:
You sound like a bitter alternative model physicist who just found out that his life's work was a waste of time.
Just kidding, you don't sound like a scientist at all. It's already all been figured out? Please enlighten us so we can stop spending millions of dollars at CERN. Plus you getting the Nobel prize would spare us the dilemma of the 3 person limit. My alternative model is called relativity. Remember that? That thing that doesn't just fill charts full of non-descript particles which serve no practical purpose? You know the thing that describes how light, gravity, space, and time work? Theres a new damn particle every 5 years discovered, a bunch of old men pat themselves on the back and NOTHING CHANGES. I'm bitter because people like you say it's the standard model or no model. You people act like YOU make the rules instead of understand the existing ones. General relativity is a classical theory, not a quantum theory. No matter how beautiful and appealing it is to you, it is incompatible with the quantum world, so will need revision. Standard model too will need some revision, but whether you like it or not it is the only theory we have consistent with all particle physics data.
Okay so the whole thing about time travelling to the future by flying closer to the speed of light is all a hoax?
There is no such thing as time dilation or length contraction of an object relative to an observer's POV?
Please don't tell me that I have spent 20 hours studying nothing because I did believe that quantum mechanics of particles and the time travel due to relativity could co-exist!
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On July 05 2012 11:01 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:25 vega12 wrote:On July 05 2012 04:50 Thenerf wrote:On July 05 2012 04:03 Myrkskog wrote:
You sound like a bitter alternative model physicist who just found out that his life's work was a waste of time.
Just kidding, you don't sound like a scientist at all. It's already all been figured out? Please enlighten us so we can stop spending millions of dollars at CERN. Plus you getting the Nobel prize would spare us the dilemma of the 3 person limit. My alternative model is called relativity. Remember that? That thing that doesn't just fill charts full of non-descript particles which serve no practical purpose? You know the thing that describes how light, gravity, space, and time work? Theres a new damn particle every 5 years discovered, a bunch of old men pat themselves on the back and NOTHING CHANGES. I'm bitter because people like you say it's the standard model or no model. You people act like YOU make the rules instead of understand the existing ones. General relativity is a classical theory, not a quantum theory. No matter how beautiful and appealing it is to you, it is incompatible with the quantum world, so will need revision. Standard model too will need some revision, but whether you like it or not it is the only theory we have consistent with all particle physics data. Okay so the whole thing about time travelling to the future by flying closer to the speed of light is all a hoax? There is no such thing as time dilation or length contraction of an object relative to an observer's POV? Please don't tell me that I have spent 20 hours studying nothing because I did believe that quantum mechanics of particles and the time travel due to relativity could co-exist!
Oh it's accurate as far as we can tell for what it applies to - just no one can reconcile it with Quantum Mechanics, and really smart people have been trying for a really long time.
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On July 04 2012 19:31 La1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 19:19 Archybaldie wrote:On July 04 2012 19:08 La1 wrote:
Can any smart people list the real world benefits of this?
I am listening to the conference and it seems they have almost confirmed a theory.. but what is the real world benefit of this?
I want my dark matter car :D Lets just put it this way .... Theoretical Scientists figure put how the world works using mathmatical models Practical scientists test those theorys sometimes those theorys are right sometimes wrong sometimes right but slightly different Then Engineers take this knowledge and translate it to the real world vis inventions etc Also theoretical scientists take the results of practical scientists and update their theorys. Right now were at the practical science part if there is any real world applications they will take time to filter through. But in general what this is, isnt a new hyper car or death ray. Its the POSSIBLE confirmation of a theory. Right now the standard model explains about 4% of the universe. This expiriment could/can/will/might show that the 4% we know is correct. If we know this 4% is correct it shows that we're on the right track to figuring out the 5th %. Possibly that 5th % has real world ramifications. Possibly just the detail they were getting out of the LHC the increases in sensitivity and precision could be used in real world applications. In general dont look to the scientists for the deathrays or darkmatter cars. Look to them to find out if its possible then look to engineers to make it possible. yeah thats what i thought Its a nice find and it will help the future but we wont see the effects of it for years because its just confirmation of a theory so real world use = none
When people were researching semiconductors or the photoelectric effect, people also thought that they would have no real world use.
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this "discovery" might matter in 800 years and then it wont matter. whats all the hub bub.
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Not sure what that discussion is about.... I think everyone agrees?
- Yes, the standard model described a large set of data at small scales.
- Yes, general relativity describes a large set of data at large scales.
- No, we do not currently know how to describe all data with one unified model.
- Is Higgs related to the microscopical picture of gravity? Possibly, but nobody knows.
- Does the discovery of Higgs change anything for the large scale description of gravity? No.
- Does it provide any immediate solutions to a unified theory of everything? Not really.
- Will it play an important part of a future unified theory? Nobody knows.
Then we know that (some) journalists always make the most fantastic claims, and it can be quite frustrating for people working in the field. If they get some facts wrong, feel free to correct, but I don't see the need to start an argument here.
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EPT
