EPTGay Scout Resolution - Page 6
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Christ the Redeemer
Brazil161 Posts
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The government indeed funds the BSA... towards the end of the Penn and Teller episode, many examples of how the funding was used and set up were explained (in pretty elaborate detail). I strongly recommend you check that out  Something about it being covered as a Patriotic Group or something for funding, and that it gets to constantly rent out property and land for free or a single dollar instead of normal fees, etc. EDIT: It starts at 19 minutes in the video Bumping the video because of importance: To paraphrase the wiki page that you posted, which made me realize that i have been extremely fortunate in my location and troop, the boyscouts receive preferential treatment, not actual funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Access_to_governmental_resources also how old is that video, there have been some changes in the government policy fairly recently (by government standards) so that video may predate those changes. Also i would like to point out that well i agree with many points raised by penn and teller, they are just as baised as fox news, just in a direction that i personally ( and you it seems). | ||
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Boiler Bandsman
United States391 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:13 Christ the Redeemer wrote: I dont know about the United States but in my country Boy Scouts is a man/boys club run by Christians and private institutions. I am an eagle scout and i remember very well in our pledges that Boy Scout has a history and commitment as a Christian and Male group. So I dont know if it is openly expressed or not, but I have to agree that Boy Scout is a not for gays and non christians. I think your username implies a slight bias here. Scouting is not limited to Christians. I've encountered everything from Orthodox Jewish troops to Mormons to Muslims. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:13 Christ the Redeemer wrote: I dont know about the United States but in my country Boy Scouts is a man/boys club run by Christians and private institutions. I am an eagle scout and i remember very well in our pledges that Boy Scout has a history and commitment as a Christian and Male group. So I dont know if it is openly expressed or not, but I have to agree that Boy Scout is a not for gays and non christians. The issue here, isn't that it is excluding gays/non-christians in my mind... It is that it is not a privately funded company, and receives federal spending... If they want to have their little club, and read about how the world was created a few thousand years ago and completely forget about all of the past homosexual priests who swore god was in them... That's their business if they pay for themselves, but if they want to take tax payers money (which frankly, many are not christian and many are gay) than it is completely wrong to not allow any section of people whether belief/sexuality. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44214 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:16 Jaaaaasper wrote: To paraphrase the wiki page that you posted, which made me realize that i have been extremely fortunate in my location and troop, the boyscouts receive preferential treatment, not actual funding http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies#Access_to_governmental_resources also how old is that video, there have been some changes in the government policy fairly recently (by government standards) so that video may predate those changes. Also i would like to point out that well i agree with many points raised by penn and teller, they are just as baised as fox news, just in a direction that i personally ( and you it seems). I hope that there have indeed been some changes in some public funding policies Just like I hope there will be some changes in how BSA runs their private organization. And I think that some troops indeed use DADT or don't really care that much about the bigoted policies, or are willing to take risks just so more boys can be included... but I think the fact that the general BSA policy is still prejudicial against the groups that we've identified is quite sad (even if they can do whatever they please, since they're supposed to be a private group). And that's the topic of importance. | ||
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SpunXtainz
Australia13 Posts
I have nothing against homosexuals that don't do this, but some of them do. Better that they save 1 person's life. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I hope that there have indeed been some changes in some public funding policies Just like I hope there will be some changes in how BSA runs their private organization. And I think that some troops indeed use DADT or don't really care that much about the bigoted policies, or are willing to take risks just so more boys can be included... but I think the fact that the general BSA policy is still prejudicial against the groups that we've identified is quite sad (even if they can do whatever they please, since they're supposed to be a private group). And that's the topic of importance. I agree with your last point completely that the prejudice is stupid and should change, and i have been throwing my 2 cents around the council i was and still am involved in, to that effect, and have been almost universally agreed with. The problems lies with the main council office in texas ( that's were it is, not a comment on their politics) not with the average scout. Also, go to bed you need your beauty sleep! | ||
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Hamboigahz
Australia55 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:27 SpunXtainz wrote: It's a bit of a no-brainer; lots of homosexuals lead boy scouts because they get opportunities such as camping trips to take advantage of their position. I have nothing against homosexuals that don't do this, but some of them do. Better that they save 1 person's life. homie are you for real? Do you have any idea how man children have been molested by people in the Catholic Church? What do you think their stance on homosexuality is? The idea that people should be banned to do something based on something that SpunXtainz thinks could happen is abhorent. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:11 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Excuse me? Being homosexual is a choice? You ask the next homosexual person you see if they choose to be ridiculed by idiots and bigots like yourself. What a stupid and ignorant comment. Being an idiot is a choice, stop choosing it every time you think. Hahaha I really offended you it seems! Idiots...bigots...such defensive words! I'm hurt...not! First you question me that "being a homosexual is a choice", then you contradict yourself by saying "being an idiot is a choice". How about you go and ask somebody who's mentally challenged if being an "idiot" is a choice. I have conversed with plenty of homosexual people to understand the truth behind their actions which is why I came to my decision that it's a choice. User was temp banned for general ignorance/trolling post. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:27 SpunXtainz wrote: It's a bit of a no-brainer; lots of homosexuals lead boy scouts because they get opportunities such as camping trips to take advantage of their position. I have nothing against homosexuals that don't do this, but some of them do. Better that they save 1 person's life. Its not just boy scouts, should we force all school to have uni sex students and teachers, with no gays of course. Its not like the gays who are honest about wanting to be involved are going to be pedophiles, those ones just lie their way in no matter what the rules are. The only thing that changing this rule would do would be to allow gay men who want to contribute to boy scouting, as opposed to hurt kids, to do so. Its not like being gay makes you a rapist, or attracted to children. Homesexual=! pedophile. | ||
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Christ the Redeemer
Brazil161 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:16 Boiler Bandsman wrote: I think your username implies a slight bias here. Scouting is not limited to Christians. I've encountered everything from Orthodox Jewish troops to Mormons to Muslims. I am very much afraid you totally miss the point. Even if I were a Muslim or an atheist, it does not change the fact that historically, iirc, the Boy Scout was a Christian initiated group for young men in order to promote Christian values and camaraderie, with a inclination towards outdoors and adventure. This is expressed and many of the pledges and oaths of the Boy Scouts (but again, I am not sure if the same is true in America). People claiming they should do away with tradition lack context and proper perspective. It is akin to opening NBA to women and the all-male tradition is silly. It is going against the very foundation of the group. If you want a female basketball league, make one, just like America did with WNBA. Now if Muslims, Mormons, gays, atheists, and others want their own values-formation/outdoor groups like Boy Scouts, they have all the freedom in the world to do so. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:27 SpunXtainz wrote: It's a bit of a no-brainer; lots of homosexuals lead boy scouts because they get opportunities such as camping trips to take advantage of their position. I have nothing against homosexuals that don't do this, but some of them do. Better that they save 1 person's life. Ok let's examine this post, before I begin I'd like you to cite your sources after please, I find this compelling that you are confident this is the case. "Lots of homosexuals lead boy scouts" Please attempt to find this and prove this to me "Lots of homosexuals lead boy scouts with the intent of raping boys" Please attempt to find this and prove this to me "I have nothing against homosexuals" Please attempt to prove that via describing your personal stance, since you obviously have the mentality a racist would towards blacks since you completely generalized the entire grouping of homosexuals to molesters. I guess in the end, stop making yourself look like an idiot by sputing out random bullshit... By your logic, Woman should not lead boy scouts becasue they may rape, Religious people should not lead boy scouts because they may rape (see that there, that's a generic statement that generalized priests as rapists, aren't I A BIGOT?). Let's tone down the stupidity, and start talking facts, not fiction. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:11 Jaaaaasper wrote: Bull crap, being homosexual is not a choice any more than being black is, ie not at all. I appreciate that you are defending scouting, but please try to do it in a manner that makes scouting and its supporters look better, not worse. Homosexuality is internal while race is external. You can hide homosexuality, but you can't hide what race you are. On your license it doesn't state if your homosexual or not but it does state your race. So, how are you even trying to make an argument about this? lol If BSOA is held on religious beliefs then I believe that that the organization should respect continue to respect it's morals. Quite honestly, It's a "choice" to have sex with a man. Homosexual men aren't born with another man bounded to them. Thoughts lead to choices and choices lead to actions. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:33 BlazeFury01 wrote: Hahaha I really offended you it seems! Idiots...bigots...such defensive words! I'm hurt...not! First you question me that "being a homosexual is a choice", then you contradict yourself by saying "being an idiot is a choice". How about you go and ask somebody who's mentally challenged if being an "idiot" is a choice. I have conversed with plenty of homosexual people to understand the truth behind their actions which is why I came to my decision that it's a choice. I don't have a report button, can someone give me a hand and tell me how do I report a user? Secondly, did I ever once imply you were mentally challenged? I may have called you an idiot (rightfully so) but most definitely not mentally challenged, I'd not want to offend that minority by adding you to their ranks. Also, I highly doubt you've conversed with "plenty" of homosexual people, and I can come to that conclusion because you refer to the fact they enjoy the same sex as "truth behind actions" like it can changed. So stop trying to justify ignorance, it's impractical. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:39 BlazeFury01 wrote: Homosexuality is internal while race is external. You can hide homosexuality, but you can't hide what race you are. On your license it doesn't state if your homosexual or not but it does state your race. So, how are you even trying to make an argument about this? lol If BSOA is held on religious beliefs then I believe that that the organization should respect continue to respect it's morals. I agree completely, you can hide your sexuality, but that does not mean you are choosing it. You just made my case stronger, thanks. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:42 NeMeSiS3 wrote: I don't have a report button, can someone give me a hand and tell me how do I report a user? Secondly, did I ever once imply you were mentally challenged? I may have called you an idiot (rightfully so) but most definitely not mentally challenged, I'd not want to offend that minority by adding you to their ranks. Also, I highly doubt you've conversed with "plenty" of homosexual people, and I can come to that conclusion because you refer to the fact they enjoy the same sex as "truth behind actions" like it can changed. So stop trying to justify ignorance, it's impractical. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=7&gs_id=r&xhr=t&q=idiot definition&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=idiot d&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7ffac515254ada2f&biw=1280&bih=699 According to the definition "idiot" is a term that describes somebody that is mentally challenged. Also, you did call me an idiot, quite directly actually " Being an idiot is a choice, stop choosing it every time you think. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:46 BlazeFury01 wrote: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=7&gs_id=r&xhr=t&q=idiot definition&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=idiot d&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7ffac515254ada2f&biw=1280&bih=699 According to the definition "idiot" is a term that describes somebody that is mentally challenged. Also, you did call me an idiot, quite directly actually " Did you read the first definition? Usually, one comes before two, try the part in which it says "a stupid person". You can really tell a persons argument is so ridiculous that they have to derail it in such a horrifically painful manner. You have such faltered logic, I fear your parents raised you completely wrong. This conversation is over, I will no longer derail this thread so I can talk to someone who deems sexuality is a choice... | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:42 Jaaaaasper wrote: I agree completely, you can hide your sexuality, but that does not mean you are choosing it. You just made my case stronger, thanks. It's a "choice" to have sex with the opposite gender. A thought is much different from an action and choice of sexual preference starts from a thought and leads to an actions thus making it a choice to begin with. | ||
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NotAPro
Canada146 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:50 BlazeFury01 wrote: It's a "choice" to have sex with the opposite gender. A thought is much different from an action and choice of sexual preference starts from a thought and leads to an actions thus making it a choice to begin with. By your logic all mental illness is a choice as well. | ||
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NeMeSiS3
Canada2972 Posts
On June 07 2012 13:50 BlazeFury01 wrote: It's a "choice" to have sex with the opposite gender. A thought is much different from an action and choice of sexual preference starts from a thought and leads to an actions thus making it a choice to begin with. When you walk into a bar, and you wish to fuck someone... Tell me, do you stand in the middle of the room choosing if it should be a male or female? If the answer is yes, you are bisexual, if it is male than you are homosexual and if it's female you are heterosexual... So either you're bisexual and are choosing, or you are hetero/homosexual and naturally just fuck that gender... Simply put, unless you are Bisexual/Asexual than fucking is as much a choice as breathing is. | ||
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