EPTPresident Obama Re-Elected - Page 97
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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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GwSC
United States1997 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:24 GwSC wrote: Wow, that poll in OP. I really didn't know people outside the US liked Obama that much. Or at least, had that strong of a preference for him over Romney. the republicans are a hateful lot, it makes noise everywhere | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:27 D10 wrote: the republicans are a hateful lot, it makes noise everywhere No, that's just how Republicans are portrayed abroad. | ||
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Velocirapture
United States983 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:36 TheToast wrote: No, that's just how Republicans are portrayed abroad. Naw, it just represents a difference between the American political spectrum and others. By European standards, Democrats are right wing and Republicans and crazy fringe right. Not that it matters since Americans determine American politics but it is silly to imply that its largely based on misinformation. | ||
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BioNova
United States598 Posts
On May 11 2012 10:05 TheToast wrote: Don't get me wrong, obviously there was some shady stuff going on in Maine but seriously why does this matter? Why would Romney even try this, he doesn't need Maine. Ron Paul has no chance of catching him nor does Ron Paul have any chance of even denying him the outright nomination. Romney now has enough or is very close to enough hard delegates--delegates who are legally bound to vote for him in the first round--that this literally does not matter at all. This isn't even drama relating to the national republican party; this video is about the Maine state republican convention to nominate candidates for the national convention. So in effect, it matters even less. The answer is.. Ben posted this today? Opinions? | ||
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:36 TheToast wrote: No, that's just how Republicans are portrayed abroad. Compared to the rest of the world, thats simply what they are. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:20 BioNova wrote: The answer is.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KhFoCgqb10&feature=player_detailpage Ben posted this today? Opinions? So... voting is 100% pointless? Thats what I take away. Oh hey you voted for that guy? You say 99% of your state voted for that same guy? Well the delegates can choose to give a fuck or not and vote for whoever they want, even if that person isn't even on the ballot. They can ignore the entire state's population and vote for some random hobo and make voting 100% pointless. edit: aww double post oh well. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:40 Velocirapture wrote: Naw, it just represents a difference between the American political spectrum and others. By European standards, Democrats are right wing and Republicans and crazy fringe right. Not that it matters since Americans determine American politics but it is silly to imply that its largely based on misinformation. Interestingly, I wrote a term paper on this for my comparative political culture course in college. If the term "right wing" is what's throwing the Europeans and other off, allow me to explain. Outside of the US and the UK, "right wing" usually refers to nationalists or sometimes ultra nationalists. In Japan, an individual arguing for the rearming of the Japanese state might be considered right wing. The subway sarin gas attack in Tokyo was said to have been carried out by right wing nationalists, for example. In central Europe the term sometimes refers to individuates who oppose immigration and are against what they perceive as the homogenization of the continent. I've even seem the Norwegian bomber referred to as an extreme right winger. But here in the US (and to a lesser extent in the UK) "right wing" usually refers to libertarian principles, sometimes bordering on social Darwinism amongst the most extreme. Often, traditional "family values" are included in this as well. A typical "right-wing" conservative in the US believes in lower government spending; lower taxation; smaller government with less regulation of businesses, corporations, and individuals; and are most often support a pro-life stance on abortion. "Reagan conservatives", which most modern right wing conservatives would probably identify themselves as, also tend to support a strong US military; often this includes a belief in a robust nuclear deterrent as well. -edit: On May 11 2012 13:26 Zooper31 wrote: Compared to the rest of the world, thats simply what they are. Compared to the rest of the world? Like the Chinese communist party, who execute people for having an opinion? Or the Iranian government who, by the way, keeps calling for the extermination of the Jews? Get some perspective. If you have a problem with the US government, that's fine; but don't make absurd straw man arguments like this. He is correct about the RNC rules. But it is the state rules that actually matter here, and most states have bound delegates, so it doesn't really matter. Rule 38 that he is talking about is why each state has at least one unbound delegate, even if the rest are bound. Either way it doesn't matter. Romney will be the republican candidate no matter how much noise Ron Paul supporters make or how many conspiracies they dream up. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
Compared to the rest of the world? Like the Chinese communist party, who execute people for having an opinion? Or the Iranian government who, by the way, keeps calling for the extermination of the Jews? Get some perspective. If you have a problem with the US government, that's fine; but don't make absurd straw man arguments like this. So to you the rest of the world are just crazy dictators? Good comparison. I don't have a problem with the US government, I will happily live here over all other places in the world, maybe move to Japan idk yet. Just comparing the US to other somewhat similiar countries and how different the political parties are, don't need get all defensive. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:00 Zooper31 wrote: So to you the rest of the world are just crazy dictators? Good comparison. I don't have a problem with the US government, I will happily live here over all other places in the world, maybe move to Japan idk yet. Just comparing the US to other somewhat similiar countries and how different the political parties are, don't need get all defensive. You called all republicans "hateful" and you're going to accuse me of making generalizations? I never said the rest of the world was all dictators. But you said compared to the rest of the world republicans are all hateful people, the world is a pretty big place there buddy. And there are some awfully hateful governments in the world. | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:03 TheToast wrote: You called all republicans "hateful" and you're going to accuse me of making generalizations? I never said the rest of the world was all dictators. But you said compared to the rest of the world republicans are all hateful people, the world is a pretty big place there buddy. And there are some awfully hateful governments in the world. Republicans are up there though come on admit it | ||
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:03 TheToast wrote: You called all republicans "hateful" and you're going to accuse me of making generalizations? I never said the rest of the world was all dictators. But you said compared to the rest of the world republicans are all hateful people, the world is a pretty big place there buddy. And there are some awfully hateful governments in the world. Most of those hateful governments aren't first-world nations though, and that's the point. On a comparative basis with the rest of the world, we're pretty awesome across the board. Compared with the other major developed economies, though, we're rather behind in a number of areas, like civil rights, health care, and education. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:12 sunprince wrote: Most of those hateful governments aren't first-world nations though, and that's the point. On a comparative basis with the rest of the world, we're pretty awesome across the board. Compared with the other major developed economies, though, we're rather behind in a number of areas, like civil rights, health care, and education. Well, it depends on how you measure those things. In terms of access to healthcare, we are certainly behind Canada and a number of European nations. In terms of quality of healthcare, we're just about number one in the world for a number of metrics. Things like average wait time to secure an appointment to a doctor, number of pioneering medical treatments, etc. It really depends on what aspects you term more important. Same with education. Our university systems are some of the best in the world. There's a reason why people come from literally all over to attend college here; many top schools in some cases have upwards of 10% asian nationals enrolled as students. The number of new technology patents that come out of US universities far outpaces just about any other country in the world. In terms of cost to attend school and the ease of access to attend a university, we've got major problems. Civil rights is the same. While we don't have universal same sex marriage, we have just about the most robust freedom of speech anywhere in the world; even compared to Europe. In Germany and Austria you can be jailed for displaying a swastika in public or voicing support for the Nazi party, earlier this year in the UK a man was jailed for tweeting a racist comment. While I don't support those actions, I personally believe that's infriging an individual's right to free speech. The US is one of the few countries in the world where you can say literally whatever the fuck you want. IMO that's a pretty damn important civil right. So really, where the US stands compared to the rest of the world is really a matter of one's perspective, and what aspects of these issues you consider more important. On May 11 2012 14:11 oldgregg wrote: Republicans are up there though come on admit it This is like saying all Democrats are weed smoking hippies. Blanket generalizations are stupid, ignorant, and most importantly--pointless. | ||
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RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
Obama is popular outside the U.S. because during his 2008 campaign and early in the term, he actively courted many foreign countries. He hasn't made as many gaffs as Bush had, and he acts the part of a calm and poised leader of a super power more than Bush did. It's really just a comparison between Obama and Bush. | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
Civil rights is the same. While we don't have universal same sex marriage, we have just about the most robust freedom of speech anywhere in the world; even compared to Europe. In Germany and Austria you can be jailed for displaying a swastika in public or voicing support for the Nazi party, earlier this year in the UK a man was jailed for tweeting a racist comment. While I don't support those actions, I personally believe that's infriging an individual's right to free speech. The US is one of the few countries in the world where you can say literally whatever the fuck you want. IMO that's a pretty damn important civil right. although you can get pepper sprayed for sitting on a street in demonstation | ||
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Pillage
United States804 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:31 oldgregg wrote: although you can get pepper sprayed for sitting on a street in demonstation Is the only thing that you're willing to contribute to this thread one-liner flame bait? Discuss something pertaining to the election or GTFO. Well, it depends on how you measure those things. In terms of access to healthcare, we are certainly behind Canada and a number of European nations. In terms of quality of healthcare, we're just about number one in the world for a number of metrics. Things like average wait time to secure an appointment to a doctor, number of pioneering medical treatments, etc. It really depends on what aspects you term more important. Same with education. Our university systems are some of the best in the world. There's a reason why people come from literally all over to attend college here; many top schools in some cases have upwards of 10% asian nationals enrolled as students. The number of new technology patents that come out of US universities far outpaces just about any other country in the world. In terms of cost to attend school and the ease of access to attend a university, we've got major problems. Civil rights is the same. While we don't have universal same sex marriage, we have just about the most robust freedom of speech anywhere in the world; even compared to Europe. In Germany and Austria you can be jailed for displaying a swastika in public or voicing support for the Nazi party, earlier this year in the UK a man was jailed for tweeting a racist comment. While I don't support those actions, I personally believe that's infriging an individual's right to free speech. The US is one of the few countries in the world where you can say literally whatever the fuck you want. IMO that's a pretty damn important civil right. So really, where the US stands compared to the rest of the world is really a matter of one's perspective, and what aspects of these issues you consider more important. That's why I tend to take many of the rankings of the world organizations with a grain of salt. They value far different things than we do, and they like to lambast us for our shortcomings even though we preform quite well in several areas. | ||
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TheToast
United States4808 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:26 stormtemplar wrote: Not really. Delegates may be ABLE to not go with their state, but I don't think it's ever actually occurred, and if it has, no election has been decided because of it. Basically, while delegates may not be OFFICIALLY bound by popular vote, they pretty much are. Some can. Some states like Minnesota have unbound delegates. They can essentially vote for whoever they want. Most other states have bound delegates though, and in the first round of voting they are legally required to vote a certain way. If there is no clear majority in that first round of voting, then in the second round they can vote for whoever they want. This is known as a brokered convention, and hasn't happened for like 60 years. On May 11 2012 14:31 oldgregg wrote: although you can get pepper sprayed for sitting on a street in demonstation Yup, this one incident proves that there are no civil rights in this country. A few rouge security guards proves that. Yup. -.- I'm fairly certain that you have no idea what civil rights actually are, so I'll just drop this here. | ||
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On May 11 2012 12:24 GwSC wrote: Wow, that poll in OP. I really didn't know people outside the US liked Obama that much. Or at least, had that strong of a preference for him over Romney. the intl community has been very critical of the republican party over the last 13 years and rightfully so. keep in mind the democratic "left" in the states is pretty far aligned to the right compared to the "left" in places such as europe. | ||
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Thylacine
Sweden882 Posts
On May 11 2012 14:21 TheToast wrote: Well, it depends on how you measure those things. In terms of access to healthcare, we are certainly behind Canada and a number of European nations. In terms of quality of healthcare, we're just about number one in the world for a number of metrics. Things like average wait time to secure an appointment to a doctor, number of pioneering medical treatments, etc. It really depends on what aspects you term more important. Same with education. Our university systems are some of the best in the world. There's a reason why people come from literally all over to attend college here; many top schools in some cases have upwards of 10% asian nationals enrolled as students. The number of new technology patents that come out of US universities far outpaces just about any other country in the world. In terms of cost to attend school and the ease of access to attend a university, we've got major problems. Civil rights is the same. While we don't have universal same sex marriage, we have just about the most robust freedom of speech anywhere in the world; even compared to Europe. In Germany and Austria you can be jailed for displaying a swastika in public or voicing support for the Nazi party, earlier this year in the UK a man was jailed for tweeting a racist comment. While I don't support those actions, I personally believe that's infriging an individual's right to free speech. The US is one of the few countries in the world where you can say literally whatever the fuck you want. IMO that's a pretty damn important civil right. So really, where the US stands compared to the rest of the world is really a matter of one's perspective, and what aspects of these issues you consider more important. This is like saying all Democrats are weed smoking hippies. Blanket generalizations are stupid, ignorant, and most importantly--pointless. One of my friends who live in USA and has kids told me that when his daughter was making an anti-war campaign in school, publically and the police contacted her and told her to stop doing it because it's offensive to others. Can't know if it's true ofcourse, but I believe my friend. | ||
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