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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 921

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7228 Posts
October 20 2012 22:40 GMT
#18401
On October 21 2012 07:32 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:59 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.


if Romney wins michigan after not supporting the auto bailouts it will be a miracle, and also an indictment on how stupid UAW voters and the state worker voters are.


Why? The auto bailouts were horribly executed.


Not gonna debate that here, but Chrysler is doing well.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 22:46:35
October 20 2012 22:45 GMT
#18402
The auto bailouts were in fact executed quite badly. I read Posner's book on it and his analysis was damning, though I'm not enough of an economist to recapitulate the argument or anything.

edit: I still wanna know what kind of jobs people think are gonna get created.
shikata ga nai
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 20 2012 22:54 GMT
#18403
On October 21 2012 07:45 sam!zdat wrote:
The auto bailouts were in fact executed quite badly. I read Posner's book on it and his analysis was damning, though I'm not enough of an economist to recapitulate the argument or anything.

edit: I still wanna know what kind of jobs people think are gonna get created.

I already gave you my brilliant jobs plan.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
October 20 2012 22:55 GMT
#18404
On October 21 2012 07:54 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 07:45 sam!zdat wrote:
The auto bailouts were in fact executed quite badly. I read Posner's book on it and his analysis was damning, though I'm not enough of an economist to recapitulate the argument or anything.

edit: I still wanna know what kind of jobs people think are gonna get created.

I already gave you my brilliant jobs plan.


yeah, drill for more oil so we can keep squandering it like fools and giving our children asthma in the process. Great idea xdaunt.
shikata ga nai
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 20 2012 23:12 GMT
#18405
On October 21 2012 07:55 sam!zdat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 07:54 xDaunt wrote:
On October 21 2012 07:45 sam!zdat wrote:
The auto bailouts were in fact executed quite badly. I read Posner's book on it and his analysis was damning, though I'm not enough of an economist to recapitulate the argument or anything.

edit: I still wanna know what kind of jobs people think are gonna get created.

I already gave you my brilliant jobs plan.


yeah, drill for more oil so we can keep squandering it like fools and giving our children asthma in the process. Great idea xdaunt.

A bit of caution - we aren't going to do the environment any favors by buying Canadian tar sand oil instead of drilling for our own.
TheFrankOne
Profile Joined December 2010
United States667 Posts
October 20 2012 23:19 GMT
#18406
On October 21 2012 06:52 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 04:54 TheFrankOne wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On October 21 2012 04:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 03:51 TheFrankOne wrote:
Edit @Fan: Progressivism is not a cogent political philosophy, it is contantly changed in definition as it is defined by current issues in a political dialogue. For the most part what the "progressives" of the early 1900s supported everyone would support today. You are conflating the turmoil in the democratic party on race issues in the early part of this century with some philosophy of "progressivism" this is not relevant to the current election or even a reasonable argument.

Throughout our wonderful history on race issues, the majority of people in both parties believed things that today are abhorrent. I'm going to profile you as one of those people who really likes Thomas Jefferson, and I have a literary recommendation is that is true.

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Mountain-Thomas-Jefferson-Slaves/dp/0374299560

I'm not the one who brought up progressivism, he did. I'm just allowing that the Democrats were progressives, and are progressives, and that many of those same social progressives who belonged to the Democratic party were the segregationists, and they (largely) remained a part of the Democratic party.

I have a lot of contempt for Thomas Jefferson. I am a strict Hamiltonian.

Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 04:03 Sadist wrote:
This is a fair point regarding individuals but the entire point was that the parties themselves switched their narrative over time (whether it is through people dying off or whatever, it doesnt really matter). To say the republican party of today is the same one as lincoln is asinine.

the parties never switched! no one here has given any evidence of any switch at all, and further, the narrative never really changed between the parties. Democrats were social progressives before and after. even more asinine than saying the Republican party is the same (it largely is), is to make the suggestion that the Democratic party somehow became the Republican party during the Nixon administration...

the Southern Strategy doesn't prove anything.



Segregationists did not remain (largely) with the Democratic party, that's what the Southern Strategy proves.

In the god damn 1970s Nixon courted the South (Dixiecrats) using racism as an explicit part of his campaign strategy and pulled the elements of the Democratic party you are referring to out. This is basic stuff, not at all disputed history. It also clearly changes the composition of each party, the "switched" so to speak, large portions of their base voting blocks who have significant influence over their platform since. What do you think the implications of the southern strategy are? The parties didn't change a bit?

Further proof is in the party change of the black vote following that strategy, which, again, changes the core issues of the parties as their constituents change. I have said repeatedly they are wholly different today than near or during the Civil war so "switching" is a bad description, and that what party Lincoln was is irrelevant to the 2012 election.

I also posted their 1860 platforms just so you can see the idea of parties "switching" or "being the same" is asinine. Both of them have checkered legacies on almost every issue related to "rights" or damn near anything else thats been important for over 100 years.

They are different now than they used to be. How we treat new territories entering into the US is not a fucking issue today. Enforced segregation, not an issue today, legal slavery, not an issue today.


http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/tp-036/?action=more_essay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette,_Sr.

Okay, I have now provided sources that say the Republicans have courted the white racist vote, abandoning both the black vote and the people those votes represent, and that in 1900 Progressives were in control of the Republican party. So, they did switch on a lot of issues, this has been proven. You have yet to prove it in any fucking way matters today. Parties are not discreet entities, they change slowly, and the Dixiecrats became Republican and that is the voting block that essentially determines which party is "racist", fortunately today its not really similiar. (Don't get me wrong, I am calling Republicans the racist party, they're just less racist than the Dixiecrats were back when traditional values like racism were respected.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
(Don't quote the first line of the article that says its leader mostly went back to Democrats, that was before things changed.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_South (this explains when things change a little more)

On race issues, the parties did switch, its just that today "race issues" are far less important than they were mostly because that whole slavery and segregation thing was far more fucked up than what's going on today.

Also, sorry I'm using Wikipedia but because this is not controversial history at all, plus cause I'm lazy, that's how its gonna be.

its all true you can pretty easily find better source if you want one.

@johnny: That's some sound advice about getting those federals dollars. Sadly Planned Parenthood faces a mission conflict with following it.

I hope you are ready for this, it's gonna be long:

+ Show Spoiler +
You are conflating two completely different socio-political movements, and then throwing all kinds of irrelevant facts together to piece together your theory. the problem here is that your looking at historical shifts and evolutions through a completely flawed prism. First is the assertion that Nixon ran on a racist platform. This has no basis in reality.

Nixon ran an anti-Communist and anti-crime centered campaign in the 1968 election. The person running the racist, segregationist platform was George Wallace. You’re completely neglecting the existence of the American-Independent party. Wallace won 5 states. Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas. The segregationists stuck with the segregationists. This goes back to 1948, when Truman desegregated the military, and then the pissed off segregationist southern-Democrats created the Dixiecrat party. They tried to punish Truman for it, and he ended up trouncing Dewey and them. That was when the Democrat platform on race and civil rights BEGAN it’s evolution. At this time (1948), the Republicans were still the civil rights party.

Now. What followed was the Second Great Migration of African-Americans from the South to the other parts of the country. This lasted until 1970. What coincided with this was another transplantation of Republicans from the North, to the South. Almost all of these Republicans were still very deep in the fight for Civil Rights, and still considered that a large part of their platform. This was the beginning of the Republican evolution. But it was NOT an evolution of platform as much as it was an evolution of geography. (The evolution of platform came later).

The beginning of the “southern strategy” is not in the 70s with Nixon (btw, Nixon was already President by 1970 for two years). It is found in the 1964 election. Goldwater was a strict conservative, and opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and any further federal civil rights actions. He did not do this because of racism, nor did he act like he was. He was clear about his opposition to a federal expansion of government using desegregation as an excuse. This attracted a lot of white Southerners who were pro-segregation, yes. But that was only because his goal happened to coincide with their goal. His reasons were 100% different from theirs.

And why was his reason different? Because the Civil Rights movement, which had been dominated by the Republican Party, had recently split. One side considered the fight mainly won (on the federal level) and wanted no more federal action. The other side thought that Civil Rights should naturally lead to a further redistribution and federally enforced nation-wide desegregation of most or all industries, schools, and governments. It was this that led to a Republican rejection of things like affirmative-action (which Nixon supported).

Lyndon Johnson ran a pretty dirty campaign in 1964, and his strategy included blasting Goldwater for voting against the Civil Rights Act (while not mentioning Goldwater’s historic support for civil rights) in the North (running a commercial that likened Goldwater to the leader of the KKK). At the same time, he ran commercials detailing Goldwater’s historic support of civil rights in the Deep South, thus garnering a lot of the segregationist, racist vote. This campaign, along with Goldwater’s refusal to support further federal action on civil rights, was what caused the African Americans to begin their break with the Republicans. They even went so far as to reelect Al Gore Sr., a segregationist, over the Republican.

Now we go to the 1968 election. In the primary, Nixon was actually lauded by civil rights leaders for not referring to the race riots in his anti-crime campaign. It was only during the actual election that he did reference the race riots, and in response, the liberals labeled his pro-state’s rights positions as code for segregation. Nixon was not a segregationist by any means, and in fact would later create a federal affirmative action program. He was specifically trying to appeal to the anti-Communist, anti-socialist elements within the Southern whites, which had already begun dropping their segregationist ideals. His platform was in no way segregationist. George Wallace was the segregationist, and he was the one who got the segregationist vote.

The black vote switched because of the perception that the Republicans had abandoned civil rights (they had not) and also because they were more likely to support the social programs that the Democrats supported. It also helped that the Democrats had largely dropped their explicit racism and support of segregation. Johnson was largely responsible for the change in perception, but anyone can see that his campaign against Goldwater was hardly honest about Goldwater’s positions. Even further, the perception of the African-Americans about the issue, are irrelevant to the truth of the issue.

Posting platforms from 1860 is even more irrelevant. Because no one has tried to claim that the parties do not evolve in their political positions. But just because one party evolves does not mean that it has suddenly become the other party. And it doesn’t mean that it isn’t the same fucking party. And yet further, the Progressives never took over the Republican Party, and actually were eventually driven out of the party. And they didn’t necessarily come from within the party either, they just latched onto the Republicans because the Democrats, at the time, were still largely segregationist, and were still largely regional (the Solid South). The Democrats evolved, yes. They became a home of progressivism as opposed to Republican conservatism, which had existed since the days of Lincoln, and still exists today.

The relevancy of my arguments is that there is some importance to being historically honest. To suggest that the Republicans became the Democrats, or visa versa, is to continue the spread of a complete fabrication. To suggest that the Republicans ever took up segregationist policies is to suggest something with no basis in historical fact. Republicans never got the segregationist vote until long after the segregationist vote had completely dropped segregation as a part of their fucking voting interests. You ask me why this is important while you are calling the party of Lincoln the “racist” party. How does it matter? You make it matter by claiming that this fabrication of Johnson’s is somehow applicable today.

From the wikipedia article on Dixiecrats that you posted but did not read:

The States' Rights Democratic Party dissolved after the 1948 election, as Truman, the Democratic National Committee, and the New Deal Southern Democrats acted to ensure that the Dixiecrat movement would not return in 1952 presidential election. Some local diehards, such as Leander Perez of Louisiana, attempted to keep it in existence in their districts.[9] Regardless of the power struggle within the Democratic Party concerning segregation policy, the South remained a strongly Democratic voting bloc for local, state, and federal Congressional elections, but not in presidential elections.


And no I will not ignore the most important part of the article, which is that most of the Dixiecrat leaders returned to the Democrat party!

Now on to the Deep South and why the Democrats lost it. Goldwater managed to get some votes because of the Republican migrations and because of his coincidental opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. However, George Wallace did more to hurt the Democrats there than anyone else. He decisively split segregationists and anti-Communists by running a pro-segregation, isolationist campaign. When Jimmy Carter ran in 72 and 76, he managed to win the South back to the Democrats. However, the fracture was complete with the election of Reagan and the ending of segregation as an issue in the South. This let those southerners who were Republican migrants, and those southerners who were anti-Communist, to come together, and gave the Republicans the Southern White vote. However, they didn’t completely win the votes of the southern white, working class, pro-segregationists, until the 90s. LONG after they had dropped segregation as an issue.

On race issues, the parties did not switch. The Republicans had always been anti-segregation, pro-Civil rights, and they remains so today. They are also conservative, and they do no support federal expansion or federal enforcement of affirmative action or other redistributive policies. Civil rights leaders wanted redistribution, and they tied that fight for redistribution to the civil rights battle, though the battle had long since been won. Republicans rejected the redistribution and were forever branded as segregationists and racists because of it.

That is why this is important. A perception of the second largest political party in the United States exists, and that perception is false and is based on the malice of liberals who never forgave Republicans for forcing progressivism out.


TL;DR: LBJ was a dick and he ran a dirty campaign. Oh and all the consensus that you're saying exists actually doesn't 1) exist and 2) say what you think they say.


Very well done I'm impressed, and must have not made my point clear earlier the only real argument I have is I would say that re-distributive policies are inherently tied to the civil rights movement which has significant implications, but that's a whole separate argument and might be what were actually disagreeing about I feel like you read a lot into what I said that I didn't mean,

I'll admit I was not anywhere near as precise as I could of been I mean, that's a hell of a wall of text I didn't want to write, left a lot of things out, didn't really reread my posts and a few of my statements were hyperbolic but honestly, I'm not sure what we're arguing about at this point. I'm certainly not calling any Republicans segregationist.

Today Republicans are viewed as unwilling to support minorities (not really "racist") because the civil rights leaders were successful in tying the fight for redistributive policy to the civil rights movement. I'm not sure you can lay that all on LBJ. I know you are arguing that the lack of intervention is because of a belief in small government but this unwillingness to act is exactly what makes them look "racist" to us liberals since "small government" is sort of a pick and choose kind of thing. The social issue policies of the party are perceived as big government so their inaction is viewed as apathy and racism. .

Its a different kind of racism, an apathy towards the struggle of a different group not viewing them as subhuman or anything so extreme.

Disclaimer: I have started drinking and need to leave in a minute so take anything I said with a grain of salt and don't expect a reply, I might back away from it in the morning but felt your wall of text deserved a reply.
nevermindthebollocks
Profile Joined October 2012
United States116 Posts
October 20 2012 23:24 GMT
#18407
On October 21 2012 07:55 sam!zdat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 07:54 xDaunt wrote:
On October 21 2012 07:45 sam!zdat wrote:
The auto bailouts were in fact executed quite badly. I read Posner's book on it and his analysis was damning, though I'm not enough of an economist to recapitulate the argument or anything.

edit: I still wanna know what kind of jobs people think are gonna get created.

I already gave you my brilliant jobs plan.


yeah, drill for more oil so we can keep squandering it like fools and giving our children asthma in the process. Great idea xdaunt.

asthma is a small price to pay for exxon profits. what good is big employment and gdp numbers if you can't breathe the air? idon't get it
Anarchy!
nevermindthebollocks
Profile Joined October 2012
United States116 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 23:34:28
October 20 2012 23:33 GMT
#18408
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.

yeah i posted yesterday when mc was down 0-3.see how that turned out?

people are finally going to hear barack's side in the next two weeks and the only poll that counts will come election day when people choose between over 3 years of job creation versus a plan that is more money for the rich and magic
Anarchy!
urashimakt
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1591 Posts
October 20 2012 23:44 GMT
#18409
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.

You'll have to forgive some of us, some of these "facts" were a little difficult to look up. The RCP model doesn't support the prediction of Romney winning 40 states or even that Romney is guaranteed to win at all.

I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that you're seeing what you want to see in the tea leaves since the $15 million loan Obama's campaign took out "this week" is actually a $15 million dollar loan that was taken out last month and mimics a $20 million loan Romney's campaign took out.

If you're truly and earnestly interested in where the cards are going to fall you need look no further than Ohio. Florida is going to be a red state again this year and you shouldn't be worrying about that at this stage in the game. Ohio is your Kingmaker.

There were two polls released on Friday that dealt specifically with Ohio voters: one from Fox News and one from Harvard/Mellen. Fox put Obama up 3 and Harvard put him up 8. If you're rooting for Romney, you want to watch for those numbers to come down. If you're rooting for Obama, you want them to stay relatively put.
Who dat ninja?
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 20 2012 23:45 GMT
#18410
americans are not smart enough to hear the story. it's not even sad but true. it's just true

User was temp banned for this post.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Amnesty
Profile Joined April 2003
United States2054 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 23:50:28
October 20 2012 23:46 GMT
#18411
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.



I like how you say Florida is gone with authority with its 1.7 lean to Romney.
Then go on to list every state with 1.6 to 5.0 Obama favor is still on the table.

Truth is Obama banked a voting advantage. Which would mean, Obama has a much better chance in upsetting Florida then Romney has upsetting any of Obama lean states. As a banked vote is far superior then a likely vote.

538 has been upticking Obama slightly over the past week as well. It would seem the Denver cascade has stopped and with a slight nod to Obama still.
Which will probably hold since it looks like its getting really hard to move the needle now with the pool of uncommitted voters being really small.

Virginia seems like the most unpredictable state right now. I'm not sure what the banked vote advantage is in this State but if its in line with Ohio, Iowa, or the Wisconsin advantage. It would be impossible for Romney to take it on election day. He would need to show a significant advantage here and not a tie.

The sky just is, and goes on and on; and we play all our BW games beneath it.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 23:53:24
October 20 2012 23:49 GMT
#18412
On October 21 2012 08:12 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 07:55 sam!zdat wrote:
On October 21 2012 07:54 xDaunt wrote:
On October 21 2012 07:45 sam!zdat wrote:
The auto bailouts were in fact executed quite badly. I read Posner's book on it and his analysis was damning, though I'm not enough of an economist to recapitulate the argument or anything.

edit: I still wanna know what kind of jobs people think are gonna get created.

I already gave you my brilliant jobs plan.


yeah, drill for more oil so we can keep squandering it like fools and giving our children asthma in the process. Great idea xdaunt.

A bit of caution - we aren't going to do the environment any favors by buying Canadian tar sand oil instead of drilling for our own.


ah yes an excellent point what should we do about that. let me put my thinking cap on.

edit: at any rate, I don't buy the idea that oil is going to save our economy, even if it were a good idea in the first place. What sort of jobs are people going to do? More useless retail? More pushing paper? More generation of useless trash consumer goods? What is the new economy? hi tech is jobless.
shikata ga nai
mambar
Profile Joined February 2012
United States841 Posts
October 20 2012 23:54 GMT
#18413
On October 21 2012 08:33 nevermindthebollocks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.

yeah i posted yesterday when mc was down 0-3.see how that turned out?

people are finally going to hear barack's side in the next two weeks and the only poll that counts will come election day when people choose between over 3 years of job creation versus a plan that is more money for the rich and magic

yeah we're "finally going to hear barack's side"

...
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 20 2012 23:57 GMT
#18414
the answer to canadian tar sand is clearly american oil shale. DOUBLE IT jay wilson style
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 20 2012 23:57 GMT
#18415
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.


so, i'm guessing you're a libertarian of some sort who wants marijuana legalized, because you've got to be smoking something there.

a big lead is a lead. a small lead is a lead. it's not good as a big lead, but its still a lead.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
October 20 2012 23:59 GMT
#18416
On October 21 2012 08:45 oneofthem wrote:
americans are not smart enough to hear the story. it's not even sad but true. it's just true

You've honestly gotta be one of the worst posters I've seen on this site. Nearly every one of your posts are random one-liners, of which 70% are straw men, 25% are condescending or insulting opinions. The other 5% actually have some kind of information or argument. At least when Sam!zdat makes one liners they are compelling or interesting. I would report you but I've learned that calling a nationality stupid is tolerated so long as it's Americans.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 21 2012 00:01 GMT
#18417
you should be glad i'm not in the mood of posting a lot of words or your libertarianism will be further in the dumpster than you'd like.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
October 21 2012 00:05 GMT
#18418
On October 21 2012 09:01 oneofthem wrote:
you should be glad i'm not in the mood of posting a lot of words or your libertarianism will be further in the dumpster than you'd like.

Not in the mood? You practically spam shit about it every single day. I didn't know you were capable of another mood. You really contribute to the conversation man, please stick around this thread.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 21 2012 00:09 GMT
#18419
you are not supposed to attack the cheerleaders of the other team, even if they make you mad.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 21 2012 00:11 GMT
#18420
On October 21 2012 08:57 oneofthem wrote:
the answer to canadian tar sand is clearly american oil shale. DOUBLE IT jay wilson style

The answer to oil being dirty is clearly not to switch to the dirtiest form of oil out there. NIMBY isn't the same as clean.
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