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President Obama Re-Elected - Page 920

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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 20:51:22
October 20 2012 20:50 GMT
#18381
On October 21 2012 05:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 04:03 TheFrankOne wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


As I pointed out at the end of the last page, Republicans put a fair bit of effort into getting those voters for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Thanks Nixon! He not only opened relations with China and passed a slew of environmental regulations but made sure my party would look better than his in the future since his would be full of racists. I love that guy!


He also tried to pass one of the best-intentioned healthcare reforms in history.



wait what? you mean privatizing health care?

How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
October 20 2012 21:03 GMT
#18382
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 20 2012 21:16 GMT
#18383
On October 21 2012 05:50 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 05:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 21 2012 04:03 TheFrankOne wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


As I pointed out at the end of the last page, Republicans put a fair bit of effort into getting those voters for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Thanks Nixon! He not only opened relations with China and passed a slew of environmental regulations but made sure my party would look better than his in the future since his would be full of racists. I love that guy!


He also tried to pass one of the best-intentioned healthcare reforms in history.



wait what? you mean privatizing health care?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmHTte8jRLk


It was public beforehand? If so that's news to me.

Btw, I see nothing wrong with anything said in that video.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7229 Posts
October 20 2012 21:26 GMT
#18384
On October 21 2012 06:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 05:50 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 05:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 21 2012 04:03 TheFrankOne wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


As I pointed out at the end of the last page, Republicans put a fair bit of effort into getting those voters for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Thanks Nixon! He not only opened relations with China and passed a slew of environmental regulations but made sure my party would look better than his in the future since his would be full of racists. I love that guy!


He also tried to pass one of the best-intentioned healthcare reforms in history.



wait what? you mean privatizing health care?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmHTte8jRLk


It was public beforehand? If so that's news to me.

Btw, I see nothing wrong with anything said in that video.



Maybe he couldn't foresee a time when health care costs would explode, but to use the guise that his goal was for everyone to have access to health care yet have it run by for profit businesses seems disingenuous. I feel like hes partly to blame for the problems we see today.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
October 20 2012 21:30 GMT
#18385
Iran agrees to nuclear arms talks! Where my foreign policy bros, bring em out bring em out
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
October 20 2012 21:31 GMT
#18386
On October 21 2012 06:03 turdburgler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.

Planned parenthood was created specifically to eliminate the black population. Eugenics was created with the belief that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites. Eugenics is based on racism. You obviously don't understand your history.

And you still haven't answered why the non racist population would vote for racists if all the racists wanted to become non racist.
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7229 Posts
October 20 2012 21:42 GMT
#18387
On October 21 2012 06:31 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:03 turdburgler wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.

Planned parenthood was created specifically to eliminate the black population. Eugenics was created with the belief that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites. Eugenics is based on racism. You obviously don't understand your history.

And you still haven't answered why the non racist population would vote for racists if all the racists wanted to become non racist.



gonna need a citation for that planned parenthood claim. And to say the entire goal of Eugenics was to eliminate the black race is laughable. I'm sure that is why they practiced it in Europe, because you know they were full of black people in places like Poland and Germany.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 20 2012 21:43 GMT
#18388
On October 21 2012 06:42 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:31 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:03 turdburgler wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.

Planned parenthood was created specifically to eliminate the black population. Eugenics was created with the belief that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites. Eugenics is based on racism. You obviously don't understand your history.

And you still haven't answered why the non racist population would vote for racists if all the racists wanted to become non racist.



gonna need a citation for that planned parenthood claim. And to say the entire goal of Eugenics was to eliminate the black race is laughable. I'm sure that is why they practiced it in Europe, because you know they were full of black people in places like Poland and Germany.

Go read about Margaret Sanger.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 21:46:09
October 20 2012 21:45 GMT
#18389
On October 21 2012 06:43 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:42 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:31 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:03 turdburgler wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.

Planned parenthood was created specifically to eliminate the black population. Eugenics was created with the belief that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites. Eugenics is based on racism. You obviously don't understand your history.

And you still haven't answered why the non racist population would vote for racists if all the racists wanted to become non racist.



gonna need a citation for that planned parenthood claim. And to say the entire goal of Eugenics was to eliminate the black race is laughable. I'm sure that is why they practiced it in Europe, because you know they were full of black people in places like Poland and Germany.

Go read about Margaret Sanger.

If one can read about Sanger and the beginnings of planned parenthood and come up with that absolute trash coming from this Arcbound guy, reading comprehension must have died in her metaphorical sleep.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 21:48:55
October 20 2012 21:48 GMT
#18390
On October 21 2012 06:43 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:42 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:31 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:03 turdburgler wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.

Planned parenthood was created specifically to eliminate the black population. Eugenics was created with the belief that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites. Eugenics is based on racism. You obviously don't understand your history.

And you still haven't answered why the non racist population would vote for racists if all the racists wanted to become non racist.



gonna need a citation for that planned parenthood claim. And to say the entire goal of Eugenics was to eliminate the black race is laughable. I'm sure that is why they practiced it in Europe, because you know they were full of black people in places like Poland and Germany.

Go read about Margaret Sanger.



Your point? So she believed in Eugenics and was apparently a racist. What does that have to do with planned parenthood and birth control. Eugenics at the time wasn't nearly as controversial as it is nowadays.

Either way this entire argument is stupid because anyone who argues that planned parenthood is about eliminating the black race or sterilizing people deemed "unfit" to reproduce nowadays is a moron.

the STD testing and contraception planned parenthood provides outweighs the abortion issue easily.



Someone needs to stop reading prisonplanet and the NWO
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
sc2superfan101
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
3583 Posts
October 20 2012 21:52 GMT
#18391
On October 21 2012 04:54 TheFrankOne wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On October 21 2012 04:14 sc2superfan101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 03:51 TheFrankOne wrote:
Edit @Fan: Progressivism is not a cogent political philosophy, it is contantly changed in definition as it is defined by current issues in a political dialogue. For the most part what the "progressives" of the early 1900s supported everyone would support today. You are conflating the turmoil in the democratic party on race issues in the early part of this century with some philosophy of "progressivism" this is not relevant to the current election or even a reasonable argument.

Throughout our wonderful history on race issues, the majority of people in both parties believed things that today are abhorrent. I'm going to profile you as one of those people who really likes Thomas Jefferson, and I have a literary recommendation is that is true.

http://www.amazon.com/Master-Mountain-Thomas-Jefferson-Slaves/dp/0374299560

I'm not the one who brought up progressivism, he did. I'm just allowing that the Democrats were progressives, and are progressives, and that many of those same social progressives who belonged to the Democratic party were the segregationists, and they (largely) remained a part of the Democratic party.

I have a lot of contempt for Thomas Jefferson. I am a strict Hamiltonian.

Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 04:03 Sadist wrote:
This is a fair point regarding individuals but the entire point was that the parties themselves switched their narrative over time (whether it is through people dying off or whatever, it doesnt really matter). To say the republican party of today is the same one as lincoln is asinine.

the parties never switched! no one here has given any evidence of any switch at all, and further, the narrative never really changed between the parties. Democrats were social progressives before and after. even more asinine than saying the Republican party is the same (it largely is), is to make the suggestion that the Democratic party somehow became the Republican party during the Nixon administration...

the Southern Strategy doesn't prove anything.



Segregationists did not remain (largely) with the Democratic party, that's what the Southern Strategy proves.

In the god damn 1970s Nixon courted the South (Dixiecrats) using racism as an explicit part of his campaign strategy and pulled the elements of the Democratic party you are referring to out. This is basic stuff, not at all disputed history. It also clearly changes the composition of each party, the "switched" so to speak, large portions of their base voting blocks who have significant influence over their platform since. What do you think the implications of the southern strategy are? The parties didn't change a bit?

Further proof is in the party change of the black vote following that strategy, which, again, changes the core issues of the parties as their constituents change. I have said repeatedly they are wholly different today than near or during the Civil war so "switching" is a bad description, and that what party Lincoln was is irrelevant to the 2012 election.

I also posted their 1860 platforms just so you can see the idea of parties "switching" or "being the same" is asinine. Both of them have checkered legacies on almost every issue related to "rights" or damn near anything else thats been important for over 100 years.

They are different now than they used to be. How we treat new territories entering into the US is not a fucking issue today. Enforced segregation, not an issue today, legal slavery, not an issue today.


http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/turningpoints/tp-036/?action=more_essay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette,_Sr.

Okay, I have now provided sources that say the Republicans have courted the white racist vote, abandoning both the black vote and the people those votes represent, and that in 1900 Progressives were in control of the Republican party. So, they did switch on a lot of issues, this has been proven. You have yet to prove it in any fucking way matters today. Parties are not discreet entities, they change slowly, and the Dixiecrats became Republican and that is the voting block that essentially determines which party is "racist", fortunately today its not really similiar. (Don't get me wrong, I am calling Republicans the racist party, they're just less racist than the Dixiecrats were back when traditional values like racism were respected.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrat
(Don't quote the first line of the article that says its leader mostly went back to Democrats, that was before things changed.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid_South (this explains when things change a little more)

On race issues, the parties did switch, its just that today "race issues" are far less important than they were mostly because that whole slavery and segregation thing was far more fucked up than what's going on today.

Also, sorry I'm using Wikipedia but because this is not controversial history at all, plus cause I'm lazy, that's how its gonna be.

its all true you can pretty easily find better source if you want one.

@johnny: That's some sound advice about getting those federals dollars. Sadly Planned Parenthood faces a mission conflict with following it.

I hope you are ready for this, it's gonna be long:

+ Show Spoiler +
You are conflating two completely different socio-political movements, and then throwing all kinds of irrelevant facts together to piece together your theory. the problem here is that your looking at historical shifts and evolutions through a completely flawed prism. First is the assertion that Nixon ran on a racist platform. This has no basis in reality.

Nixon ran an anti-Communist and anti-crime centered campaign in the 1968 election. The person running the racist, segregationist platform was George Wallace. You’re completely neglecting the existence of the American-Independent party. Wallace won 5 states. Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas. The segregationists stuck with the segregationists. This goes back to 1948, when Truman desegregated the military, and then the pissed off segregationist southern-Democrats created the Dixiecrat party. They tried to punish Truman for it, and he ended up trouncing Dewey and them. That was when the Democrat platform on race and civil rights BEGAN it’s evolution. At this time (1948), the Republicans were still the civil rights party.

Now. What followed was the Second Great Migration of African-Americans from the South to the other parts of the country. This lasted until 1970. What coincided with this was another transplantation of Republicans from the North, to the South. Almost all of these Republicans were still very deep in the fight for Civil Rights, and still considered that a large part of their platform. This was the beginning of the Republican evolution. But it was NOT an evolution of platform as much as it was an evolution of geography. (The evolution of platform came later).

The beginning of the “southern strategy” is not in the 70s with Nixon (btw, Nixon was already President by 1970 for two years). It is found in the 1964 election. Goldwater was a strict conservative, and opposed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and any further federal civil rights actions. He did not do this because of racism, nor did he act like he was. He was clear about his opposition to a federal expansion of government using desegregation as an excuse. This attracted a lot of white Southerners who were pro-segregation, yes. But that was only because his goal happened to coincide with their goal. His reasons were 100% different from theirs.

And why was his reason different? Because the Civil Rights movement, which had been dominated by the Republican Party, had recently split. One side considered the fight mainly won (on the federal level) and wanted no more federal action. The other side thought that Civil Rights should naturally lead to a further redistribution and federally enforced nation-wide desegregation of most or all industries, schools, and governments. It was this that led to a Republican rejection of things like affirmative-action (which Nixon supported).

Lyndon Johnson ran a pretty dirty campaign in 1964, and his strategy included blasting Goldwater for voting against the Civil Rights Act (while not mentioning Goldwater’s historic support for civil rights) in the North (running a commercial that likened Goldwater to the leader of the KKK). At the same time, he ran commercials detailing Goldwater’s historic support of civil rights in the Deep South, thus garnering a lot of the segregationist, racist vote. This campaign, along with Goldwater’s refusal to support further federal action on civil rights, was what caused the African Americans to begin their break with the Republicans. They even went so far as to reelect Al Gore Sr., a segregationist, over the Republican.

Now we go to the 1968 election. In the primary, Nixon was actually lauded by civil rights leaders for not referring to the race riots in his anti-crime campaign. It was only during the actual election that he did reference the race riots, and in response, the liberals labeled his pro-state’s rights positions as code for segregation. Nixon was not a segregationist by any means, and in fact would later create a federal affirmative action program. He was specifically trying to appeal to the anti-Communist, anti-socialist elements within the Southern whites, which had already begun dropping their segregationist ideals. His platform was in no way segregationist. George Wallace was the segregationist, and he was the one who got the segregationist vote.

The black vote switched because of the perception that the Republicans had abandoned civil rights (they had not) and also because they were more likely to support the social programs that the Democrats supported. It also helped that the Democrats had largely dropped their explicit racism and support of segregation. Johnson was largely responsible for the change in perception, but anyone can see that his campaign against Goldwater was hardly honest about Goldwater’s positions. Even further, the perception of the African-Americans about the issue, are irrelevant to the truth of the issue.

Posting platforms from 1860 is even more irrelevant. Because no one has tried to claim that the parties do not evolve in their political positions. But just because one party evolves does not mean that it has suddenly become the other party. And it doesn’t mean that it isn’t the same fucking party. And yet further, the Progressives never took over the Republican Party, and actually were eventually driven out of the party. And they didn’t necessarily come from within the party either, they just latched onto the Republicans because the Democrats, at the time, were still largely segregationist, and were still largely regional (the Solid South). The Democrats evolved, yes. They became a home of progressivism as opposed to Republican conservatism, which had existed since the days of Lincoln, and still exists today.

The relevancy of my arguments is that there is some importance to being historically honest. To suggest that the Republicans became the Democrats, or visa versa, is to continue the spread of a complete fabrication. To suggest that the Republicans ever took up segregationist policies is to suggest something with no basis in historical fact. Republicans never got the segregationist vote until long after the segregationist vote had completely dropped segregation as a part of their fucking voting interests. You ask me why this is important while you are calling the party of Lincoln the “racist” party. How does it matter? You make it matter by claiming that this fabrication of Johnson’s is somehow applicable today.

From the wikipedia article on Dixiecrats that you posted but did not read:

The States' Rights Democratic Party dissolved after the 1948 election, as Truman, the Democratic National Committee, and the New Deal Southern Democrats acted to ensure that the Dixiecrat movement would not return in 1952 presidential election. Some local diehards, such as Leander Perez of Louisiana, attempted to keep it in existence in their districts.[9] Regardless of the power struggle within the Democratic Party concerning segregation policy, the South remained a strongly Democratic voting bloc for local, state, and federal Congressional elections, but not in presidential elections.


And no I will not ignore the most important part of the article, which is that most of the Dixiecrat leaders returned to the Democrat party!

Now on to the Deep South and why the Democrats lost it. Goldwater managed to get some votes because of the Republican migrations and because of his coincidental opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. However, George Wallace did more to hurt the Democrats there than anyone else. He decisively split segregationists and anti-Communists by running a pro-segregation, isolationist campaign. When Jimmy Carter ran in 72 and 76, he managed to win the South back to the Democrats. However, the fracture was complete with the election of Reagan and the ending of segregation as an issue in the South. This let those southerners who were Republican migrants, and those southerners who were anti-Communist, to come together, and gave the Republicans the Southern White vote. However, they didn’t completely win the votes of the southern white, working class, pro-segregationists, until the 90s. LONG after they had dropped segregation as an issue.

On race issues, the parties did not switch. The Republicans had always been anti-segregation, pro-Civil rights, and they remains so today. They are also conservative, and they do no support federal expansion or federal enforcement of affirmative action or other redistributive policies. Civil rights leaders wanted redistribution, and they tied that fight for redistribution to the civil rights battle, though the battle had long since been won. Republicans rejected the redistribution and were forever branded as segregationists and racists because of it.

That is why this is important. A perception of the second largest political party in the United States exists, and that perception is false and is based on the malice of liberals who never forgave Republicans for forcing progressivism out.


TL;DR: LBJ was a dick and he ran a dirty campaign. Oh and all the consensus that you're saying exists actually doesn't 1) exist and 2) say what you think they say.
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
October 20 2012 21:54 GMT
#18392
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
October 20 2012 21:59 GMT
#18393
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.

Come on, you've been posting long enough to know that spitting out polls without any reference is the stuff of fools and partisan toddlers. Which one are you?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 22:00:26
October 20 2012 21:59 GMT
#18394
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.


if Romney wins michigan after not supporting the auto bailouts it will be a miracle, and also an indictment on how stupid UAW voters and the state worker voters are.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 22:04:58
October 20 2012 22:03 GMT
#18395
On October 21 2012 06:59 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.

Come on, you've been posting long enough to know that spitting out polls without any reference is the stuff of fools and partisan toddlers. Which one are you?


Sorry, but if people don't know what the polls are and they complain that I haven't linked to them, that's their problem for not informing themselves. Anyone can go to any one of the numerous sites that aggregate all polls (although RealClearPolitics is still the best) and they should already know about them.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html#battlegrounds

Go to each state and look at the history. Obama's leads in various battleground states are either 1-2 points where they were 4-6 before (or more), or Romney is ahead.

if Romney wins michigan after not supporting the auto bailouts it will be a miracle, and also an indictment on how stupid UAW voters and the state worker voters are.


Obama will win Michigan but the fact that it's even single-digits there just shows how weak Obama is.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 22:21:18
October 20 2012 22:17 GMT
#18396
On October 21 2012 06:26 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On October 21 2012 05:50 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 05:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 21 2012 04:03 TheFrankOne wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


As I pointed out at the end of the last page, Republicans put a fair bit of effort into getting those voters for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Thanks Nixon! He not only opened relations with China and passed a slew of environmental regulations but made sure my party would look better than his in the future since his would be full of racists. I love that guy!


He also tried to pass one of the best-intentioned healthcare reforms in history.



wait what? you mean privatizing health care?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmHTte8jRLk


It was public beforehand? If so that's news to me.

Btw, I see nothing wrong with anything said in that video.



Maybe he couldn't foresee a time when health care costs would explode, but to use the guise that his goal was for everyone to have access to health care yet have it run by for profit businesses seems disingenuous. I feel like hes partly to blame for the problems we see today.


Uh, global HMOs would have shrunk healthcare costs immensely-the only reason they started spiraling was that the HMOs were all killed by public backlash in the 90s for no good reason.

If you're going to have employer-based insurance, HMOs are the only way to go. German sickness funds aren't that different (well, they are now I guess, but they weren't for a long time).


Edit:
On October 21 2012 07:03 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:59 farvacola wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.

Come on, you've been posting long enough to know that spitting out polls without any reference is the stuff of fools and partisan toddlers. Which one are you?


Sorry, but if people don't know what the polls are and they complain that I haven't linked to them, that's their problem for not informing themselves. Anyone can go to any one of the numerous sites that aggregate all polls (although RealClearPolitics is still the best) and they should already know about them.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/2012_elections_electoral_college_map.html#battlegrounds

Go to each state and look at the history. Obama's leads in various battleground states are either 1-2 points where they were 4-6 before (or more), or Romney is ahead.

Show nested quote +
if Romney wins michigan after not supporting the auto bailouts it will be a miracle, and also an indictment on how stupid UAW voters and the state worker voters are.


Obama will win Michigan but the fact that it's even single-digits there just shows how weak Obama is.


Please don't cite RCP then make predictions that have nothing to do with the RCP model like "Romney will win 40 states."
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7229 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-20 22:19:28
October 20 2012 22:18 GMT
#18397
On October 21 2012 07:17 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:26 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 06:16 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On October 21 2012 05:50 Sadist wrote:
On October 21 2012 05:45 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 21 2012 04:03 TheFrankOne wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


As I pointed out at the end of the last page, Republicans put a fair bit of effort into getting those voters for themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Thanks Nixon! He not only opened relations with China and passed a slew of environmental regulations but made sure my party would look better than his in the future since his would be full of racists. I love that guy!


He also tried to pass one of the best-intentioned healthcare reforms in history.



wait what? you mean privatizing health care?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmHTte8jRLk


It was public beforehand? If so that's news to me.

Btw, I see nothing wrong with anything said in that video.



Maybe he couldn't foresee a time when health care costs would explode, but to use the guise that his goal was for everyone to have access to health care yet have it run by for profit businesses seems disingenuous. I feel like hes partly to blame for the problems we see today.


Uh, global HMOs would have shrunk healthcare costs immensely-the only reason they started spiraling was that the HMOs were all killed by public backlash in the 90s for no good reason.

If you're going to have employer-based insurance, HMOs are the only way to go.


employer based insurance isn't a good thing imo. also the idea of insurance on your health is inherently immoral anyway but ill drop the topic.
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
BallinWitStalin
Profile Joined July 2008
1177 Posts
October 20 2012 22:20 GMT
#18398
On October 21 2012 06:31 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:03 turdburgler wrote:
On October 21 2012 03:55 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
People forget the large numbers of companies that supported democrats. Planned Parenthood was created in the 1930's in Hitlers image and supported the democrat party. The New York Times supported democrats since the 1850's. In order for the huge shift to happen not only would all the voters have to switch, but all republican and democrat supporting free market businesses would have to fire all their workers and higher new ones.

But that still doesn't answer why would non racist people want to vote for the racist party. And then you also have to ignore all the (ex) KKK members who were democrats until they died. It's all anecdotal evidence but it all points not only to democrats and republicans not changing sides, but that all the overtly racist democrats died off.


you are completely missing the point of what people are saying, they arent saying that the people switched sides they are saying the sides switched and the people stayed the same.

i dont even understand what your point is about planned parenthood? in the early 20th century eugenics was seen as a serious science, not as a quasi racist means to segregate. many countries investigated the implications. when people saw what the logical conclusion of what was in nazi germany most countries dismantled their eugenics programs, the US company named planned parenthood shifted its focus but kept its name, it is in no way related to what was done 90 years ago.

Planned parenthood was created specifically to eliminate the black population. Eugenics was created with the belief that blacks were evolutionarily inferior to whites. Eugenics is based on racism. You obviously don't understand your history.

And you still haven't answered why the non racist population would vote for racists if all the racists wanted to become non racist.


This is a ridiculous point. Who cares if planned parenthood was founded as a eugenics organization. Are they that way today? Do they in any way support eugenics? Are the people at planned parenthood all disguised Nazi's intent on purifying America?

Judge them on their current agenda. Best red herring I've seen in this thread in ages.
I await the reminiscent nerd chills I will get when I hear a Korean broadcaster yell "WEEAAAAVVVVVUUUHHH" while watching Dota
Signet
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1718 Posts
October 20 2012 22:26 GMT
#18399
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Even if Romney does better than expected, there is no way he wins 40.

MA, RI, DE, MD, DC, NY, VT, IL, WA, CA, HI.

That leaves 40. Good luck sweeping ME, CT, NJ, MN, OR, NM, and all of the swing states.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
October 20 2012 22:32 GMT
#18400
On October 21 2012 06:59 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2012 06:54 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Romney's gonna win 40 states, it's gonna be the most hilarious night of my life.

Florida is gone.

The rest of the south is gone. Obama is going to lose North Carolina and Virginia both.

Romney's erased an 11-point deficit in Wisconsin in ~2 weeks, he's down by 1 there now. A 7-8 point deficit in Ohio is now a tie. He's leading in Pennsylvania. He's only a few points behind in Michigan. Iowa and Nevada are a tie. All of these states had Obama in the lead by 4-10 points less than a month ago.

Obama's last chance is the final debate and we saw last week that he isn't going to land a knockout punch on Romney in a debate.

The Obama campaign took out a $15 million loan from Bank of America this week, because they desperately need money to buy advertising in states they thought were safe, like Wisconsin and Michigan. Their fundraising can't keep up with their expenses (wow, what a shocker there).

The preference cascade started after the first debate and hasn't stopped, though it has slowed a little. Romney will win nationally by a margin similar to 2008 (6-7 points) and will have a lopsided electoral vote victory. There just isn't anything Obama can do, he's been trying like a desperate man to stop the shift to Romney for two weeks and it hasn't worked.

Unless Obama has pictures of Romney uppercutting a 10 year old or something, this election cake is baked. Romney is going to be the next president.


if Romney wins michigan after not supporting the auto bailouts it will be a miracle, and also an indictment on how stupid UAW voters and the state worker voters are.


Why? The auto bailouts were horribly executed.
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