President Obama Re-Elected - Page 512

On September 17 2012 07:20 rogzardo wrote:


Debate on what 'that' was specifically referring aside, do you think that your average business owner built his or her business on their own? Without any outside help?

On September 17 2012 07:10 Kaitlin wrote:


It's only a distortion to avid supporters of Obama, no matter what. Listening to the entire context, as objectively as one reasonably can, leads an intellectually honest person to conclude that Obama was referring to a business as 'that'. Roads and bridges are 'those', not 'that', as well. So, it doesn't matter how many times it's denied (or explained per your word choice), it doesn't make it so. Honest people can listen to the actual context and fairly conclude that he was not referring to roads and bridges, but to the business.

On September 17 2012 07:32 Kaitlin wrote:


If I start a lemonade stand today. I purchase the lemonade. I pay for the permits to operate my lemonade stand. I spend my $$ marketing my product. I am liable for anyone who gets sick from the lemonade I serve. I can get sued, if somebody slips in front of my lemonade stand because the customer in front of them dropped their lemonade on the floor, which of course, I have to replace for fear that I will receive bad press from some self-entitled brat who deserves to drink a lemonade, even though they dropped the first. I have to fill out all the government forms and tax returns, remitting sales taxes collected, and deal with government regulators since I'm serving a food product to the public. If my lemonade stand doesn't make a profit, then not only do I net get paid for the time I spend selling lemonade and preparing it, and doing all the b.s. compliance tasks, but I am still out of pocket. My neighbor is an employee of a construction company that received the contract to build the road in front of my house. He worked on that road for 2 weeks and was compensated from his employer for two weeks of work, at the contracted rate. Now, you ask, how much did my neighbor contribute to my business. Not a motherfucking thing, how about that ? He should be happy that the money I generate from my lemonade stand generates tax revenue to our community so that he is hired in the future to build another road somewhere else. What risk has my neighbor taken ? He wants to be responsible for a business, he should open his own construction business and keep his grimy paws out of my lemonade stand's tiller.

On September 17 2012 07:23 kwizach wrote:

So my argument about the fact that there are different definitions and types of measures of unemployment is unrelated to your claim about what the so-called "actual" unemployment rate is? Let me repeat: the most common measure of unemployment is U3. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. According to how unemployment is defined by the ILO, which is what the U3 measure is based on, the current unemployment rate is 8.1%. That's the "actual unemployment rate" as defined by the ILO and as calculated by most states.

Now, you're free to disagree with that definition, and you're free to prefer using other measures of unemployment, for example U4, U5 or U6. But it's idiotic to declare that the "actual unemployment rate is not 8.1%", when it clearly is according to the commonly-accepted definition of unemployment and the measure of unemployment universally used.

On September 17 2012 07:30 Defacer wrote:


I haven't read a report that they where warned of the attacks in Lybia ahead of time. I think your confusing Egypt and Lybia. Also, bear in mind there are multiple plots, every year since 9/11, to attack something on it's anniversary. Even if there was evidence, it might not be actionable.

I haven't read anywhere that the administration is claiming that the attacks were not premeditated. They might be investigating it still. But links, plz.

On September 17 2012 07:32 Kaitlin wrote:


If I start a lemonade stand today. I purchase the lemonade. I pay for the permits to operate my lemonade stand. I spend my $$ marketing my product. I am liable for anyone who gets sick from the lemonade I serve. I can get sued, if somebody slips in front of my lemonade stand because the customer in front of them dropped their lemonade on the floor, which of course, I have to replace for fear that I will receive bad press from some self-entitled brat who deserves to drink a lemonade, even though they dropped the first. I have to fill out all the government forms and tax returns, remitting sales taxes collected, and deal with government regulators since I'm serving a food product to the public. If my lemonade stand doesn't make a profit, then not only do I net get paid for the time I spend selling lemonade and preparing it, and doing all the b.s. compliance tasks, but I am still out of pocket. My neighbor is an employee of a construction company that received the contract to build the road in front of my house. He worked on that road for 2 weeks and was compensated from his employer for two weeks of work, at the contracted rate. Now, you ask, how much did my neighbor contribute to my business. Not a motherfucking thing, how about that ? He should be happy that the money I generate from my lemonade stand generates tax revenue to our community so that he is hired in the future to build another road somewhere else. What risk has my neighbor taken ? He wants to be responsible for a business, he should open his own construction business and keep his grimy paws out of my lemonade stand's tiller.

On September 17 2012 07:35 kmillz wrote:


Unemployed adults in the United States is not 8.1%. It's idiotic to declare that adults who are not in the work force are NOT unemployed.

On September 17 2012 07:32 kwizach wrote:

There's really not much to say in response to this except that it's just not true. The only thing Obama is guilty of here is a grammatical error, since he indeed should have used "those" instead of "that", but any intellectually-honest person will in fact conclude that he was referring to the "roads and bridges" that he had mentioned in the previous sentence (and by the way, fact-checkers like politifact.com clearly recognized that Obama's words had been distorted by Romney). The context of the speech very clearly confirms this, since in it Obama underlines the importance of both individual initiative and doing things together.


Did you build the possible demand for lemonade? Did you build the road that allows people to get to your lemonade stand? Did you build the infrastructure that allows human beings to live sufficiently close to your lemonade stand to potentially buy some of your lemonade?

On September 17 2012 05:54 kwizach wrote:

The "one liner" is a complete distortion of what he said, since he was not talking about any business but about roads and bridges. I'm surprised it's even still brought up considering the amount of times it's been explained. And regarding the so-called "attacks [...] on the rich, the successful and private enterprise", care to share examples?

On September 17 2012 07:37 rogzardo wrote:


You didn't answer the question, because the only answer is that every business in the country utilizes infrastructure supported by the government.

I bet Obama loves the revenue your lemonade stand generates, and the taxes you provide. You should probably enjoy the 1,000,000,000 other things that are supported by the government that allows you to have your lemonade stand.

Now the depressing details of the [August] jobs report:

– Nonfarm payrolls increased by only 96,000 in August, the Labor Department said, versus expectations of 125,000 jobs or more. The manufacturing sector, much touted by the president in his convention speech, lost 15,000 jobs.

– Since the start of the year, job growth has averaged 139,000 per month vs. an average monthly gain of 153,000 in 2011.

– As the chart at the top shows, the unemployment rate remains far above the rate predicted by Team Obama if Congress passed the stimulus. (This is the Romer-Bernstein chart.)

– While the unemployment rate dropped to 8.1% from 8.3% in July, it was due to a big drop in the labor force participation rate (the share of Americans with a job or looking for one). If fewer Americans hadn’t given up looking for work, the unemployment rate would have risen.

– Reuters notes that the participation rate is now at its lowest level since September 1981.

– If the labor force participation rate was the same as when Obama took office in January 2009, the unemployment rate would be 11.2%.

– If the participation rate had just stayed the same as last month, the unemployment rate would be 8.4%.

On September 17 2012 04:52 HunterX11 wrote:


There was a "crackdown" under Bush but it only targeted a handful of people so I'm not sure how much of a chilling effect it had. I believe the only person to go to jail was Max Hardcore. Quite notably, a woman was convicted of writing obscene stories. Everyone who talks about how America has free speech compared to other countries quite conveniently ignores how the government in America can arrest you for writing stories deemed too inappropriate. True, it was only one person, and she accepted a plea bargain for house arrest and probation, in part to avoid a trial because she is an agoraphobe (which is suppose also makes house arrest a bit less harsh? Still unacceptable, however).

On September 17 2012 07:41 Kaitlin wrote:


Did I build the possible demand for lemonade ? What kind of liberal bullshit argument is that ? I didn't build the road. I pretty clearly stated as much. It's clear, however, that whoever build the road and infrastructure were paid as employees, so they have no right to claim any ownership or right to the rewards generated from risks that I take.

On September 17 2012 07:42 JonnyBNoHo wrote:

Sure,

Attacking Romney for "vulture capitalism"
Complaining about oil companies' "excessive profits"
"fat cats" on wall st
Saying the rich don't pay their "fair share"
Bullying B of A into dropping their debt card fee
Breaking bankruptcy law in the GM bailout
NLRB not letting Boeing build a plant where it wanted to

The business community thought of Obama as anti-business long before 'you didn't build that' became a rallying cry.

On September 17 2012 07:41 Kaitlin wrote:


Did I build the possible demand for lemonade ? What kind of liberal bullshit argument is that ? I didn't build the road. I pretty clearly stated as much. It's clear, however, that whoever build the road and infrastructure were paid as employees, so they have no right to claim any ownership or right to the rewards generated from risks that I take.

On September 17 2012 07:45 kwizach wrote:

Who the hell is "claiming ownership" of your stand?! What kind of crazy strawman of the point Obama was making is this?! All he's saying is that individual initiative does not happen in a vacuum, and that we should therefore recognize the importance of both individual initiative and the fact that we live in a society and do some things together. As long as you recognize that some of the things that allow you to sell lemonade were not built by you (for example the roads that bring potential customers to your stand and more generally the infrastructure that allow humans to live in its relative vicinity), it means you agree with him.

On September 17 2012 07:48 rogzardo wrote:


Obama's point is that business owners in the United States utilize infrastructure supported by the government. Roads, police, mail, cities, and almost anything else you can imagine exists because a government exists. Without government, you have no business.

On September 17 2012 07:48 rogzardo wrote:


Obama's point is that business owners in the United States utilize infrastructure supported by the government. Roads, police, mail, cities, and almost anything else you can imagine exists because a government exists. Without government, you have no business.

On September 17 2012 07:53 Kaitlin wrote:


Do you have difficulty in separating the need for roads and infrastructure, in general, from irresponsible government spending and control ? Nobody thinks we should live in a society without the basic infrastructure that promotes commerce among us.

On September 17 2012 07:54 kwizach wrote:

Then you agree with the point he was making in that speech. The end.

On September 17 2012 07:54 Kaitlin wrote:


Yes, clearly the only alternative to Obama's policies is complete anarchy. Well considered.