• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:10
CET 15:10
KST 23:10
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy5ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool40Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw? Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win
Tourneys
World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Team League Season 10 KSL Week 87
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Soulkey's decision to leave C9 JaeDong's form before ASL BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
U4GM Tips Counter Enemy Gadgets Fast in Black Ops rsvsr How to Keep Reward Chains Rolling in Monopol u4gm What to Do First in MLB The Show 26 Spring
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1592 users

President Obama Re-Elected - Page 361

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 359 360 361 362 363 1504 Next
Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here.

The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
August 30 2012 04:09 GMT
#7201
On August 30 2012 12:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Paul Ryan attacks Obama on medicare, Ryan holds the same position. Then attacks Obama on Simpson - Bowles he was against said plan warned the GOP that if passed Obama would have a victory.

Person A: "Let's take $100 from the budget and give it to charity."
Person B: "Let's take $100 from the budget and throw ourselves a party."
Person C: "They have the same policy of taking $100 from the budget."

And if we put your understanding of Ryan's opposition to Simpson-Bowles in StarCraft II terms, it'd be like the game requiring more placement games because you don't even qualify for Bronze.
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
August 30 2012 04:14 GMT
#7202
On August 30 2012 12:15 Defacer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 12:10 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Paul Ryan attacks Obama on medicare, Ryan holds the same position. Then attacks Obama on Simpson - Bowled he was against said plan warned the GOP that if passed Obama would have a victory.


Exactly. Paul Ryan was instrumental in cock-blocking a bipartisan plan that would have reduced the deficit.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/29/simpson-bowles-plan-rejected-house-vote_n_1387601.html
The House voted decisively late Wednesday to reject a bipartisan budget mixing tax increases with spending cuts to wring $4 trillion from federal deficits over the coming decade.

The 382-38 roll call paved the way for Republicans to muscle through their own, more stringent budget


382 votes! That's like over a hundred Democrats! Ryan the bipartisan intellectual math genius.
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
August 30 2012 04:23 GMT
#7203
On August 30 2012 12:34 Defacer wrote:
Ryan did everything he could to get GM to stay

No. Did you even read what you posted? He was part of a group that talked to GM, but that is far from everything Ryan could have done.

There's also this weird (or more honestly intellectually lazy) idea that saying things like government does too much means that you must be against 100% of the government everywhere every time. Talking to GM about what would keep a plant open is not the same thing as the massive bailout Obama orchestrated for his auto union pals.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 04:24:54
August 30 2012 04:23 GMT
#7204
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 04:39:37
August 30 2012 04:38 GMT
#7205
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D

You know, most of our memories of past great presidents are caricatures of what they actually were. We talk a lot about FDR and Lincoln but they also won bitter campaigns with profound accusations that they were leading the country into ruin.

This is like saying the Celtics are in a slump so they should bring back Larry Bird. He would never be a starter in today's NBA.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15742 Posts
August 30 2012 04:38 GMT
#7206
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D


The president who is responsible for the South not seceding? Are you crazy? Think for a moment how glorious our country would be without the south and tell me that's a good idea.
Souma
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 04:53:08
August 30 2012 04:52 GMT
#7207
On August 30 2012 13:38 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D

You know, most of our memories of past great presidents are caricatures of what they actually were. We talk a lot about FDR and Lincoln but they also won bitter campaigns with profound accusations that they were leading the country into ruin.

This is like saying the Celtics are in a slump so they should bring back Larry Bird. He would never be a starter in today's NBA.


Tell me about it. I've been reading up on Thomas Jefferson lately, and although I find him to be a figure worthy of utmost admiration, along with being one of the most amazing intellectuals and incredible writers ever, the stuff he did in his day... lol.

On August 30 2012 13:38 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D


The president who is responsible for the South not seceding? Are you crazy? Think for a moment how glorious our country would be without the south and tell me that's a good idea.


I must admit, you gave me a good laugh.
Writer
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 30 2012 05:01 GMT
#7208
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Defacer
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada5052 Posts
August 30 2012 05:22 GMT
#7209
On August 30 2012 13:38 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D

You know, most of our memories of past great presidents are caricatures of what they actually were. We talk a lot about FDR and Lincoln but they also won bitter campaigns with profound accusations that they were leading the country into ruin.

This is like saying the Celtics are in a slump so they should bring back Larry Bird. He would never be a starter in today's NBA.


coverpunch, I'm sick of your filthy fucking lies and misinformation!!!!!!

antelope591
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada820 Posts
August 30 2012 05:43 GMT
#7210
On August 30 2012 13:38 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D

You know, most of our memories of past great presidents are caricatures of what they actually were. We talk a lot about FDR and Lincoln but they also won bitter campaigns with profound accusations that they were leading the country into ruin.

This is like saying the Celtics are in a slump so they should bring back Larry Bird. He would never be a starter in today's NBA.


Larry Bird wouldn't start in today's NBA? Are u seriously retarded? I hope you don't actually watch basketball cause my brain hurts after that one. If you want to actually use a half decent example you could say someone like Bob Cousy or George Mikan...but Larry Bird? Seriously?
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
August 30 2012 06:01 GMT
#7211
On August 30 2012 13:38 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 13:23 3FFA wrote:
I'm really wishing there was someone to vote for, for real. Like, someone who actually wants to do something. Hmm... can we revive Abraham Lincoln? :D

You know, most of our memories of past great presidents are caricatures of what they actually were. We talk a lot about FDR and Lincoln but they also won bitter campaigns with profound accusations that they were leading the country into ruin.

This is like saying the Celtics are in a slump so they should bring back Larry Bird. He would never be a starter in today's NBA.


LOL what? I wasn't even a Larry Bird fan but that guy was sick good.
As for Ryan's speech...Idk. It served its purpose right?
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 30 2012 06:53 GMT
#7212
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

You'll see on the debates how tight handling fares. PBS, CNN, ABC, CBS could hardly be considered in Romney's camp. Those are the network stars hosting the coming debates. Tune in and see just how much Romney OR Obama has been coddled in their campaigns.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
August 30 2012 07:02 GMT
#7213
On August 30 2012 15:53 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

Show nested quote +
We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

You'll see on the debates how tight handling fares. PBS, CNN, ABC, CBS could hardly be considered in Romney's camp. Those are the network stars hosting the coming debates. Tune in and see just how much Romney OR Obama has been coddled in their campaigns.




what a pinko
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 30 2012 07:37 GMT
#7214
On August 30 2012 11:48 Defacer wrote:
Ugh ... this speech is so poorly written and poorly delivered and so -- confusing.

So Ryan's complaining about cuts to Medicare -- the exact same cuts that the Romney and Ryan administration propose to make -- and is now railing about the Obama administration spending money that he doesn't have?

'Tax Fairness'. That's what they're calling it now?

Awkward segueway to mom ...

BTW, Solyndra was not 'crony-capitalism'. It was a bad government funded invested that fucking failed, but one project out of many from a energy budget where every other project did well. R. Congressman Issa investigated it and could not find any evidence of wrongdoing or 'crony-capitalism'.


Beacon power also defaulted. Regardless, its not a line of work I want the government involved in.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 07:58:44
August 30 2012 07:56 GMT
#7215
On August 30 2012 15:53 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

Show nested quote +
We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

Again, he never said the government was "more responsible" for your success than you were. He was simply pointing out that it ALSO plays an important role, that individual initiative does not happen in a vacuum. I really don't get how there can still be confusion over this.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Minus`
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 08:10:40
August 30 2012 08:09 GMT
#7216
On August 30 2012 15:53 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

Show nested quote +
We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

You'll see on the debates how tight handling fares. PBS, CNN, ABC, CBS could hardly be considered in Romney's camp. Those are the network stars hosting the coming debates. Tune in and see just how much Romney OR Obama has been coddled in their campaigns.

At no point does this insinuate that the government is more responsible than you for your own successes. I can't believe you quoted the text in full, acknowledged the meaning (mostly), and then still managed to misunderstand.

That keyboard you typed this on? You didn't build that. Neither did the government. But someone did, and it wasn't you. There's no reason you shouldn't acknowledge that. But the things you do with it, that's the part that matters. The part that you build, born from your own thoughts, that's the important part. Otherwise it's just an object, or it's just infrastructure, or it's just a forum. You are the driving force, you made the important decisions, you created the final product. But it's nonsensical to assume that you did that in a vacuum.

No one who stands on the shoulders of giants should have the gall to spit down on them. There were a lot of things that happened to you, outside of your control, to bring you to where you are right now, that other people's hard work enabled you to do. Even the small things that other people say or do around you, that's shaped your life. And then you took this collected experience, and you built on it to become who you are, to think how you think, to become an individual. The type of selfishness that claims anyone has done anything apart from their environment is completely absurd -- whatever you do, you'll have done it either (in part) because of your environment, or (in part) in spite of it.

That "you didn't build that" bit is the centerpiece of these ads for a good reason alright, but it isn't because Obama wants to denigrate the value of hard work. I hope that isn't what you really believe. It must be a perspective thing, because I honestly don't understand how an otherwise reasonable-seeming person such as yourself came to this conclusion.

Shit, even Romney conceded that much when he made nearly the same point to a crowd of the hardest working athletes in the world. ...But, then again, that was in 2002. I'm sure he's changed his mind by now.

Nowadays a politician who even mentions "community" gets labeled a communist. That's poison.
[11:02:30 PM] <gryzor> calling coh an rts is like calling an sheep a car
Infernal Knight
Profile Joined July 2012
United States557 Posts
August 30 2012 08:09 GMT
#7217
On August 30 2012 16:56 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 15:53 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

Again, he never said the government was "more responsible" for your success than you were. He was simply pointing out that it ALSO plays an important role, that individual initiative does not happen in a vacuum. I really don't get how there can still be confusion over this.


If one gives Obama the benefit of the doubt, then I believe it's a fairly simple process to realize he was attempting to say that there are a lot of 'invisible' things the government does to help businesses that people sort of take for granted. Unfortunately, politics is rarely about giving one's opponent the benefit of the doubt, and despite Obama trying to paraphrase Elizabeth Warren's "You built a factory" riff, he ordered his words in a way that unfortunately leaves him politically vulnerable. Had he qualified a little more, such as "Even if you have a business, you didn't build those things," it would have been less easy to slice up and turn into a Republican catchphrase. Had his remarks simply not had "you didn't build that" immediately following "If you have a business", it would have been easier still, but what's said has been said. Such is politics - it's not often connected to policy, but it's how we run our elections, and have done so for quite a while. US elections going all the way back to the ones after George Washington have had a habit of being nasty.

That said, I don't think "You did build that" or "We built it" are quite as strong as Republicans want them to be. Neither of them is particularly catchy in a linguistic sense, not the "did build" strangeness nor the somewhat awkward 'built it' construction. It feels to me more like a conservative dog-whistle; it's great for pumping up those already conservative against Obama, and maybe pulling those already leaning Republican closer in, but I don't think it's going to have the same impact on a voter who isn't quite as susceptible to pure anti-Obamaness. I also feel like there's a bit of self-congratulatory smarm in a lot of these political catchphrases that can sound a little grating to the uninitiated. Moreover, hearing "you did build it" ad infinitum seemed to magnify the fact that the phrase just doesn't contain any strong words - not a yes, a no, or particularly evocative words. It's not like "No new taxes" or "It's the economy, stupid" or "war on terror" or even "yes we can".

Anyway, I realize I didn't have much to say in terms of policy, but I figured the politics of the election are just about as important - much as I personally wish it was not the case.
"It's like you were running away from bears, except that the bears have the power to make forcefields." - QxC
Leporello
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2845 Posts
August 30 2012 09:17 GMT
#7218
On August 30 2012 17:09 Infernal Knight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 16:56 kwizach wrote:
On August 30 2012 15:53 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

Again, he never said the government was "more responsible" for your success than you were. He was simply pointing out that it ALSO plays an important role, that individual initiative does not happen in a vacuum. I really don't get how there can still be confusion over this.


If one gives Obama the benefit of the doubt, then I believe it's a fairly simple process to realize he was attempting to say that there are a lot of 'invisible' things the government does to help businesses that people sort of take for granted. Unfortunately, politics is rarely about giving one's opponent the benefit of the doubt, and despite Obama trying to paraphrase Elizabeth Warren's "You built a factory" riff, he ordered his words in a way that unfortunately leaves him politically vulnerable. Had he qualified a little more, such as "Even if you have a business, you didn't build those things," it would have been less easy to slice up and turn into a Republican catchphrase. Had his remarks simply not had "you didn't build that" immediately following "If you have a business", it would have been easier still, but what's said has been said. Such is politics - it's not often connected to policy, but it's how we run our elections, and have done so for quite a while. US elections going all the way back to the ones after George Washington have had a habit of being nasty.

That said, I don't think "You did build that" or "We built it" are quite as strong as Republicans want them to be. Neither of them is particularly catchy in a linguistic sense, not the "did build" strangeness nor the somewhat awkward 'built it' construction. It feels to me more like a conservative dog-whistle; it's great for pumping up those already conservative against Obama, and maybe pulling those already leaning Republican closer in, but I don't think it's going to have the same impact on a voter who isn't quite as susceptible to pure anti-Obamaness. I also feel like there's a bit of self-congratulatory smarm in a lot of these political catchphrases that can sound a little grating to the uninitiated. Moreover, hearing "you did build it" ad infinitum seemed to magnify the fact that the phrase just doesn't contain any strong words - not a yes, a no, or particularly evocative words. It's not like "No new taxes" or "It's the economy, stupid" or "war on terror" or even "yes we can".

Anyway, I realize I didn't have much to say in terms of policy, but I figured the politics of the election are just about as important - much as I personally wish it was not the case.


I think the problem is transparency. Republicans, whether they can admit it to themselves, are branding themselves with their negativity. It's becoming too predictable, and too audacious. Even if you do believe that Obama is a "socialist" or what have you, I think very few people sincerely believe that he'd insult the accomplishment of building a small business -- if only because it lacks tact. It's something that sort of just has to be taken out of context -- and sure enough, it largely is.

And I don't think Republicans, as a whole, understand that this is the stuff that cost them the election in 2008. They see it worked in 2004, where they really used everything they could possibly throw at John Kerry, digging up every quote he ever made and taking it in the worst possible context, and that's just become their M.O. You see it in the Tea Party, you see it in the right-wing media, and now they're bringing it right to their national convention. All the politicians make jokes and take cheap-shots, but when you're addressing the voters on a national scale, it's something you should only slide in on occasion. You don't make it your party's mantra. It's like when McCain/Palin started talking about Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers. No one outside of the indoctrinated is going to seriously contemplate the fallacious idea that the president is an anti-American terrorist. It's like tabloid-headline gossip, but instead of letting the tabloid's peddle the cheap crap, they bring it right to the campaign trail.

If today's convention proceedings were a representation of Romney's campaign, this election is in the bag for Obama. This is also why the Republicans will unknowingly lose themselves the debates. Paul Ryan can't say at the debates what he said tonight. At a debate, you're simply held more responsible for what you say. People will see that contrast in both Ryan and Romney. Republicans will see it as weakness on Ryan's part for not taking the Obama administration to task like they "know" he can, and Democrats will see it as affirmation that Republicans lie a lot when addressing their own audiences.

But either way, Republicans are branding themselves with very willful, resentful negativity. Their biggest slogan thus far, "We built that", is the exact sort of "it's all in the game" gotcha crap that I think independent voters are just completely sick of. If someone hasn't been convinced that Obama is a commie/socialist by this point, your slogans aren't going to suddenly convince them otherwise. This has all been completely self-serving to the Republican's base, but that's not what's going to give Romney a win in this election. By the time they start appealing to the better nature of people, it'll just lack too much sincerity -- and sincerity is something Romney has issue with enough already.
Big water
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-30 09:30:24
August 30 2012 09:27 GMT
#7219
[image loading]

Oh the irony.

"We built it" plastered by Republicans on a wall of a convention center that was mostly built by government money. So, no, they did NOT build that.

All this in a convention where they video edited Obama's remarks to completely change it's original meaning: http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/lies-damn-lies-and-gop-video/
Infernal Knight
Profile Joined July 2012
United States557 Posts
August 30 2012 09:36 GMT
#7220
On August 30 2012 18:17 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2012 17:09 Infernal Knight wrote:
On August 30 2012 16:56 kwizach wrote:
On August 30 2012 15:53 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2012 14:01 ticklishmusic wrote:
It's a shame that Romney's media appearances are so tightly regulated that no one has been able to force him to admit that a good half of his campaign is built on quoting Obama out of context.

Though it would be fair to say that this tight handling applies to most politicians.

We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

Well, there's the context. Now tell me that Obama does not believe that government is more responsible for your business's success than you were. You are just doing what the fine list of government's assets, including teachers, the internet, "American system", and roads and bridges, enabled you to do. This has been the centerpiece of Romney's recent campaign commercials and for good reason.

Again, he never said the government was "more responsible" for your success than you were. He was simply pointing out that it ALSO plays an important role, that individual initiative does not happen in a vacuum. I really don't get how there can still be confusion over this.


If one gives Obama the benefit of the doubt, then I believe it's a fairly simple process to realize he was attempting to say that there are a lot of 'invisible' things the government does to help businesses that people sort of take for granted. Unfortunately, politics is rarely about giving one's opponent the benefit of the doubt, and despite Obama trying to paraphrase Elizabeth Warren's "You built a factory" riff, he ordered his words in a way that unfortunately leaves him politically vulnerable. Had he qualified a little more, such as "Even if you have a business, you didn't build those things," it would have been less easy to slice up and turn into a Republican catchphrase. Had his remarks simply not had "you didn't build that" immediately following "If you have a business", it would have been easier still, but what's said has been said. Such is politics - it's not often connected to policy, but it's how we run our elections, and have done so for quite a while. US elections going all the way back to the ones after George Washington have had a habit of being nasty.

That said, I don't think "You did build that" or "We built it" are quite as strong as Republicans want them to be. Neither of them is particularly catchy in a linguistic sense, not the "did build" strangeness nor the somewhat awkward 'built it' construction. It feels to me more like a conservative dog-whistle; it's great for pumping up those already conservative against Obama, and maybe pulling those already leaning Republican closer in, but I don't think it's going to have the same impact on a voter who isn't quite as susceptible to pure anti-Obamaness. I also feel like there's a bit of self-congratulatory smarm in a lot of these political catchphrases that can sound a little grating to the uninitiated. Moreover, hearing "you did build it" ad infinitum seemed to magnify the fact that the phrase just doesn't contain any strong words - not a yes, a no, or particularly evocative words. It's not like "No new taxes" or "It's the economy, stupid" or "war on terror" or even "yes we can".

Anyway, I realize I didn't have much to say in terms of policy, but I figured the politics of the election are just about as important - much as I personally wish it was not the case.


I think the problem is transparency. Republicans, whether they can admit it to themselves, are branding themselves with their negativity. It's becoming too predictable, and too audacious. Even if you do believe that Obama is a "socialist" or what have you, I think very few people sincerely believe that he'd insult the accomplishment of building a small business -- if only because it lacks tact. It's something that sort of just has to be taken out of context -- and sure enough, it largely is.

And I don't think Republicans, as a whole, understand that this is the stuff that cost them the election in 2008. They see it worked in 2004, where they really used everything they could possibly throw at John Kerry, digging up every quote he ever made and taking it in the worst possible context, and that's just become their M.O. You see it in the Tea Party, you see it in the right-wing media, and now they're bringing it right to their national convention. All the politicians make jokes and take cheap-shots, but when you're addressing the voters on a national scale, it's something you should only slide in on occasion. You don't make it your party's mantra. It's like when McCain/Palin started talking about Reverend Wright and Bill Ayers. No one outside of the indoctrinated is going to seriously contemplate the fallacious idea that the president is an anti-American terrorist. It's like tabloid-headline gossip, but instead of letting the tabloid's peddle the cheap crap, they bring it right to the campaign trail.

If today's convention proceedings were a representation of Romney's campaign, this election is in the bag for Obama. This is also why the Republicans will unknowingly lose themselves the debates. Paul Ryan can't say at the debates what he said tonight. At a debate, you're simply held more responsible for what you say. People will see that contrast in both Ryan and Romney. Republicans will see it as weakness on Ryan's part for not taking the Obama administration to task like they "know" he can, and Democrats will see it as affirmation that Republicans lie a lot when addressing their own audiences.

But either way, Republicans are branding themselves with very willful, resentful negativity. Their biggest slogan thus far, "We built that", is the exact sort of "it's all in the game" gotcha crap that I think independent voters are just completely sick of. If someone hasn't been convinced that Obama is a commie/socialist by this point, your slogans aren't going to suddenly convince them otherwise. This has all been completely self-serving to the Republican's base, but that's not what's going to give Romney a win in this election. By the time they start appealing to the better nature of people, it'll just lack too much sincerity -- and sincerity is something Romney has issue with enough already.


I do agree with you. It's mostly that my personal experience was of wishing that, somehow, the American people would just 'wake up' and see that the Republicans frequently distorted the truth in their campaign attacks and in day-to-day policy dealings, and then agonized at how the Democrats always just seemed to sit there and take hits to the face without doing anything. This is why I've been mostly behind Obama's campaign strategy even if it's being criticized for 'negativity' - just sitting back and waiting for people to see that X charge is false is not how you win. Even if, for a Democrat, countering a Republican claim requires repeating a truth so obvious it feels like you shouldn't even need to say it, you still have to say it. It's sort of the feeling that I got after going through the youthful rebellious phase that one has to get the proverbial skin in the game and help your favored side win. I dealt with a lot of friends who held mostly liberal views but would then end with "they're both corrupt and voting doesn't matter, so I'm going Ron Paul. LOL" and this kind of apathy is what lets a motivated minority get outsized influence.

This sort of refusal to counter Republican messaging is what I think led to the 2010 midterm results, and I'm glad to see that sort of passivity isn't going to happen again. I do also believe that eventually Republicans will push themselves so far to the right they'll have another Barry Goldwater moment (I don't think Romney is personally extreme enough for that) and there'll be a rebalancing of the political scene.
"It's like you were running away from bears, except that the bears have the power to make forcefields." - QxC
Prev 1 359 360 361 362 363 1504 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#79
WardiTV714
OGKoka 250
Rex113
IntoTheiNu 21
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 193
ProTech128
LamboSC2 127
Rex 111
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 12706
Bisu 3112
Horang2 1836
Jaedong 1677
Shuttle 1106
Sharp 820
Hyuk 689
Larva 412
BeSt 401
Mini 391
[ Show more ]
Stork 391
Soma 281
Light 278
Rush 232
Leta 195
Snow 170
Zeus 127
Backho 116
ggaemo 102
Pusan 94
PianO 63
Shinee 62
Sea.KH 61
[sc1f]eonzerg 55
Shine 47
ToSsGirL 37
Nal_rA 34
ajuk12(nOOB) 31
Aegong 28
Movie 24
Free 24
Hm[arnc] 21
yabsab 21
zelot 19
910 19
Bale 18
soO 18
sorry 18
IntoTheRainbow 18
GoRush 16
Noble 11
Terrorterran 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6170
League of Legends
Reynor48
Counter-Strike
fl0m3313
Fnx 2169
olofmeister998
shoxiejesuss812
byalli552
kennyS511
oskar14
Other Games
singsing2287
B2W.Neo787
hiko671
XBOCT460
Beastyqt395
Lowko390
crisheroes305
OGKoka 269
Happy149
Sick96
Mew2King60
ArmadaUGS53
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV205
• Noizen55
• lizZardDota250
League of Legends
• Nemesis1665
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 50m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19h 50m
Afreeca Starleague
19h 50m
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
1d 18h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 19h
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Platinum Heroes Events
5 days
BSL
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
5 days
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-22
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.