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Hey guys! We'll be closing this thread shortly, but we will make an American politics megathread where we can continue the discussions in here. The new thread can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383301 | ||
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Liman
Serbia681 Posts
As non-American i found that it doesnt matter who is US president,because that person is just for show.Real power is in the hands of industrialists (not all of them are even americans). Elections and politics are used to make people think they have a choice and that their oppinion matters. I believe this thread is pointless. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On August 30 2012 20:43 Liman wrote: As non-American i found that it doesnt matter who is US president,because that person is just for show.Real power is in the hands of industrialists (not all of them are even americans). Elections and politics are used to make people think they have a choice and that their oppinion matters. I believe this thread is pointless. You didn't "find" that. You think that. And you're wrong. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On August 30 2012 20:43 Liman wrote: As non-American i found that it doesnt matter who is US president,because that person is just for show.Real power is in the hands of industrialists (not all of them are even americans). Elections and politics are used to make people think they have a choice and that their oppinion matters. I believe this thread is pointless. Because the Yugoslavian countries are all about democracy and freedom of choice in elections, right? No. It doesn't work like that. People have votes. Them votes are counted, and a president is elected using the electoral college as a means of bunching votes together. Industrialists and lobbyists can only influence, not force a person to vote one way or another. | ||
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Agathon
France1505 Posts
What's their arguments for blaming objective verifying of facts? I don't get how they can justify that's something bad... | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On August 30 2012 21:21 Agathon wrote: I read on a french newspaper (Le Monde) that republicans are blaming US' newspapers and website for "fact-checking" (Bloomberg, Slate, New York Times, Washington Post, New York Daily Mag, Talking Points Memo, The New Republic, Salon, Fox News, Politifact). What's their arguments for blaming objective verifying of facts? I don't get how they can justify that's something bad... "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers" -Romney campaign. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/23/mitt-romney-_n_1836139.html This statement is in response to criticisms of Romney's ads claiming that Obama will remove the work requirement to get welfare, which fact checkers have called a "pants on fire" lie: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/aug/07/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-barack-obamas-plan-abandons-tenet/ There are other lies too. See: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/opinion/how-the-republicans-built-it.html/?_r=1&hp http://keller.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/28/lies-damn-lies-and-gop-video/ | ||
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Liman
Serbia681 Posts
On August 30 2012 21:06 Praetorial wrote: Because the Yugoslavian countries are all about democracy and freedom of choice in elections, right? No. It doesn't work like that. People have votes. Them votes are counted, and a president is elected using the electoral college as a means of bunching votes together. Industrialists and lobbyists can only influence, not force a person to vote one way or another. Ex Yugoslavian countries are the best example of fake democracies,we see the influence of Industrialists in our countries.That is why I understand much better than you what ``democracy`` rely is. In this day and age its naive to think that your vote can change anything. Sorry. And sorry for being off topic. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On August 30 2012 22:02 Liman wrote: Ex Yugoslavian countries are the best example of fake democracies,we see the influence of Industrialists in our countries.That is why I understand much better than you what ``democracy`` rely is. In this day and age its naive to think that your vote can change anything. Sorry. And sorry for being off topic. To quote John Taylor: ![[image loading]](https://kitchabichin.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/dinass.jpg) | ||
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Jumbled
1543 Posts
On August 30 2012 21:58 paralleluniverse wrote: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers" -Romney campaign. That quote is brilliant. It really sums up the entire republican platform. | ||
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jungsu
United States279 Posts
Well then what do I need to worry about?!? It's all taken care of! Thanks Ryan! /sarcasm | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On August 30 2012 21:21 Agathon wrote: I read on a french newspaper (Le Monde) that republicans are blaming US' newspapers and website for "fact-checking" (Bloomberg, Slate, New York Times, Washington Post, New York Daily Mag, Talking Points Memo, The New Republic, Salon, Fox News, Politifact). What's their arguments for blaming objective verifying of facts? I don't get how they can justify that's something bad... The problem is that "fact checking" makes it sound objective. But it's not. Fact checking articles are editorials where the writer is judge, jury, and executioner of whether a statement is "factual". They're opinions. I think they're a good part of a vibrant discussion, mind you. I just don't like the name because it's misleading. | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 30 2012 16:56 kwizach wrote: Again, he never said the government was "more responsible" for your success than you were. He was simply pointing out that it ALSO plays an important role, that individual initiative does not happen in a vacuum. I really don't get how there can still be confusion over this. At this point conservatives simply don't trust Obama when it comes to the economy due to choices he has made (like the GM bailout). They see him as a socialist and "you didn't build that" symbolizes that belief. The actual context of the phrase is irrelevant at this point. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 31 2012 01:14 coverpunch wrote: The problem is that "fact checking" makes it sound objective. But it's not. Fact checking articles are editorials where the writer is judge, jury, and executioner of whether a statement is "factual". They're opinions. I think they're a good part of a vibrant discussion, mind you. I just don't like the name because it's misleading. Politifact peddles all sorts of bullshit under the guise of "fact checking." | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On August 31 2012 00:44 jungsu wrote: "Our rights come from nature and god, and not from government!" Well then what do I need to worry about?!? It's all taken care of! Thanks Ryan! /sarcasm We're been through this on this thread. It's actually a pretty important distinction. Rights given by the government can be taken away by the government. The whole point of "human rights" is that they're inherent and can't be lawfully taken away. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On August 31 2012 01:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote: At this point conservatives simply don't trust Obama when it comes to the economy due to choices he has made (like the GM bailout). They see him as a socialist and "you didn't build that" symbolizes that belief. The actual context of the phrase is irrelevant at this point. It also symbolizes the belief that literally anything the government does is wrong and as one republican so eloquently put it 'I want government to be small enough to drown it in my bathtub'. The phrase has now become hollow to a point where depending on the government to help you out in life is completely unacceptable, but just living off your parents trustfund is justified. And the instances where government has helped individuals out get conveniently ignored. See Ann Romney's comments about how hard she and Mitt had it when they were students. Their dining table was a fold out ironing board and they had to sell stock to make it through it. Genuinely believing that they had it 'rough' is probably the funniest thing to come out of this convention so far. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On August 31 2012 01:15 JonnyBNoHo wrote: At this point conservatives simply don't trust Obama when it comes to the economy due to choices he has made (like the GM bailout). They see him as a socialist and "you didn't build that" symbolizes that belief. The actual context of the phrase is irrelevant at this point. The quote was deliberately taken out of context by the Romney campaign and others to capitalize on it politically. | ||
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kwizach
3658 Posts
On August 31 2012 01:19 xDaunt wrote: Politifact peddles all sorts of bullshit under the guise of "fact checking." No, you disagree with politifact because of your partisan, fact-proof, stance. | ||
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Mortal
2943 Posts
On August 30 2012 21:58 paralleluniverse wrote: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers" -Romney campaign. Source: huffingtonpost/ Ah the HuffPo, always a solid source of hilarity and mind-bogglingly stupid statements. | ||
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TrickyGilligan
United States641 Posts
On August 31 2012 01:14 coverpunch wrote: The problem is that "fact checking" makes it sound objective. But it's not. Fact checking articles are editorials where the writer is judge, jury, and executioner of whether a statement is "factual". They're opinions. I think they're a good part of a vibrant discussion, mind you. I just don't like the name because it's misleading. This is a real problem I have with media and politics in the US right now. It's sort of the Wikipedia effect. No one is sure what is true and what isn't, because you can go online and find sources to back up any insane argument you want to make. Perhaps not credible sources, but that doesn't seem to matter to people. Facts are not opinions. It's possible to have different opinions about facts, but there is something called "truth." Yet somehow, we've convinced ourselves that it's all opinion, and everyone's opinion is valid. I can't believe that. Some opinions are based on real things happening in the world. Lots of other opinions are based on misinformation, and whatever the speaker thinks you want to hear. Not all opinions are created equal. | ||
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
On August 31 2012 01:23 Derez wrote: It also symbolizes the belief that literally anything the government does is wrong and as one republican so eloquently put it 'I want government to be small enough to drown it in my bathtub'. The phrase has now become hollow to a point where depending on the government to help you out in life is completely unacceptable, but just living off your parents trustfund is justified. And the instances where government has helped individuals out get conveniently ignored. See Ann Romney's comments about how hard she and Mitt had it when they were students. Their dining table was a fold out ironing board and they had to sell stock to make it through it. Genuinely believing that they had it 'rough' is probably the funniest thing to come out of this convention so far. As a Democrat watching the convention, this little tale of trust fund baby struggle has definitely been my favorite part, as it does a good job of illustrating just how out of touch certain people are in the United States when it comes to financial struggle. I'm reminded of frat boys I knew while going to OSU who thought their having to make their own meals was a huge burden while they described their weekend travels to the Bahamas. Eating Ramen Noodles does not a life of struggle make. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
No, you disagree with politifact because of your partisan, fact-proof, stance. Fact checkers write opinion pieces under the guise of checking accuracy, they're worthless. They've been criticized by both Democrats and Republicans because they're full of shit. | ||
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