EPTI don't really know how it matters that he smoked weed and was suspended. That suddenly makes Zimmerman shooting him totally okay even though there is no way in hell that ZImmerman could have possibly known that?
Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Page 9
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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
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tokicheese
Canada739 Posts
I don't really know how it matters that he smoked weed and was suspended. That suddenly makes Zimmerman shooting him totally okay even though there is no way in hell that ZImmerman could have possibly known that? | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On March 29 2012 07:50 SidianTheBard wrote: The fact of the matter is that Zimmerman didn't do anything wrong. There is nothing wrong with following someone in your car, getting out and questioning that person. He's neighborhood watch, he hasn't seen the kid before, if he wants to question him he's more then welcome too. Martin doesn't have to answer him if he doesn't want to, he can easily ignore him and keep walking or just say "I'm going to my girlfriends". There is no evidence of Zimmerman doing anything dangerous towards Martin to allow Martin to tackle him and start smashing his head into the ground. So, from what we can tell, Zimmerman got out of his car, talked to Martin, was going back to his car and then he got jumped and at that point his life was at risk, hence the screaming for help and all the blood & bruises he sustained. Saying something again and again does not make it true. The 911 call shows that Zimmerman wasn't in a friendly disposition, to say the least. To think that his behaviour could not have had any impact on the incident is delusional. Portraying him as a harmless good-samaritan is a mistake that screams out biased filtering. Being followed by a stranger in nighttime and later approached and questioned would be threatening to anyone with a little self-preservation instinct. Do you really expect an immature 17 year old teenager to respond in a cool, calm collected manner under the circumstances? Regardless of culpability, Zimmerman is incompetent and showed poor judgement. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:26 tokicheese wrote: http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475 Footage of Zimmerman at the police station I don't really know how it matters that he smoked weed and was suspended. That suddenly makes Zimmerman shooting him totally okay even though there is no way in hell that ZImmerman could have possibly known that? ill add that to the op, thanks. zimmerman looks in shape and fucking scary if i met him in a dark alley. i always pictured him as this semi-obese mall cop based on his height and weight, which dont appear to be accurate. | ||
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woody60707
United States1863 Posts
On March 29 2012 08:20 Sufficiency wrote: My understanding of the issue here is the following: one can only claim self-defense if the confrontation is initiated by the other party. That is, if someone tries to rob me with a gun, I am allowed to fight back because the robber initiated the confrontation. On the other hand, if I am the robber who tries to rob a guy, and that guy fights back, then I killed him, it's NOT self-defense because I initiated the confrontation. In this case, I think it is without a doubt that Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. But I am not sure if he is doing it out of his duty as a volunteer neighbourhood watch... I am not sure if this position offers him any protection, or duty, to confront him. Yes, and if Zimmerman tried to rob Martin, or in any way committed any illegal acts, you would be 100% right. Now what you are thinking of is if someone commits an illegal act. Any reasonable actions that stems out from that act are also the fault of said person. Now did Zimmerman commit any illegal actions. The short answer is as far as anyone can tell, no Now self defense is an affirmative defense in the US. It's illegal to kill someone, but you are saying you were justify in your action. Meaning now the burden of proof is on you. The (voluntary) manslaughter charge is odd. Manslaughter is one of those "we'll split the difference" law. It's saying your actions directly cause the death of a person, but the state recognizes it wasn't murder (for a whole host of reasons). So it seems the police are saying this isn't murder, but this wasn't right either. And most the internet doesn't think this was right either. Now when this got bounced to the DA, "this doesn't seem right" wasn't enough to press charges. Zimmerman had piss poor judgement that night, but if none of your action are illegal (or proven to be illegal), what can you do? | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:26 Saryph wrote: I'm just irritated that the police asked for a warrant to arrest him the night it happened, because they didn't believe Zimmerman's story, etc etc, but some elected official told them no. i doubt they asked for a warrant. they already had him in custody and a warrant was most likely not necessary for an arrest (i am not up to par on Florida criminal procedure). the police probably did initial interviews and kicked it up to the state attorneys' office (where i live they tend to be in the same building, just different floors) and asked whether to arrest the person. then a state attorney said there was not enough evidence and told them not to arrest him. once again I am not familiar with Florida, but in California, the District Attorney is elected, but not his/her underlings who are employees. on this particular night, i doubt the case went to a big-wig for review, probably just some underling that was an unelected employee. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:32 dAPhREAk wrote: ill add that to the op, thanks. zimmerman looks in shape and fucking scary if i met him in a dark alley. i always pictured him as this semi-obese mall cop based on his height and weight, which dont appear to be accurate. Not to mention the mug shot they keep posting in news reports. I was always under the impression that the weight difference between him and Trayvon was mostly "gut." | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:47 aksfjh wrote: Not to mention the mug shot they keep posting in news reports. I was always under the impression that the weight difference between him and Trayvon was mostly "gut." Again, that mugshot is from an arrest from five years ago, and he wasn't convicted either. The news reports should not be considered a credible source, at all. All they care about is their ratings, and sadly, the truth just doesn't make a good story. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:46 dAPhREAk wrote: i doubt they asked for a warrant. they already had him in custody and a warrant was most likely not necessary for an arrest (i am not up to par on Florida criminal procedure). the police probably did initial interviews and kicked it up to the state attorneys' office (where i live they tend to be in the same building, just different floors) and asked whether to arrest the person. then a state attorney said there was not enough evidence and told them not to arrest him. once again I am not familiar with Florida, but in California, the District Attorney is elected, but not his/her underlings who are employees. on this particular night, i doubt the case went to a big-wig for review, probably just some underling that was an unelected employee. ...The Sanford Police Department requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney's Office in the Trayvon Martin shooting, a special prosecutor in the case said Tuesday.... Source | ||
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SystemAddict
Korea (South)28 Posts
I think it shows the maturity of African Americans, automatically assuming everything is about race. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:54 SystemAddict wrote: I like how the guy is half white half mexican, and everyone's like, O it's just another typical case of White racism towards African Americans. I think it shows the maturity of African Americans, automatically assuming everything is about race. It shows the maturity of SystemAddict to lump an entire race of people into one group, based on his personal, uneducated feelings. | ||
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Heweree
United Kingdom497 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:58 Saryph wrote: It shows the maturity of SystemAddict to lump an entire race of people into one group, based on his personal, uneducated feelings. These 2 men are right xD, the racist thing is way overhyped imo | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
hmmm... that doesnt make sense to me. warrants are issued by judges and magistrates, not state attorneys. i have never heard of a "capias warrant" before. i'm just going to fall back on the fact that i am not familiar with Florida law. http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/capias/ this is even more interesting from the article though: "I don’t know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: ‘We’re through with our investigation and here it is for you.' The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in mid-stream," Corey said. http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-Shooting-Sanford-Cops-Requested-Arrest-Warrant-144606055.html | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On March 29 2012 09:32 dAPhREAk wrote: ill add that to the op, thanks. zimmerman looks in shape and fucking scary if i met him in a dark alley. i always pictured him as this semi-obese mall cop based on his height and weight, which dont appear to be accurate. also interesting to note is he has no blood or bruises on his face, which is hard to do considering he says his face was beaten into the ground. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
he only addresses two hypothetical situations though, and there is potentially a third where zimmerman is the initial aggressor, retreats (or not) and then is attacked; he notes this possibility and the relevant law, but dismisses it because he says zimmerman isnt arguing it. something for you to consider on your own. http://volokh.com/2012/03/27/floridas-self-defense-laws/ | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 29 2012 10:13 PrinceXizor wrote: also interesting to note is he has no blood or bruises on his face, which is hard to do considering he says his face was beaten into the ground. i was thinking the same thing. but note that the police report said he received medical care before he went to the police station. still, he doesnt have a splint or bandages on his nose/face or back of the head. so how serious are the injuries? i would love to see the actual medical records, which the paramedics most likely prepared. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On March 29 2012 10:20 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking the same thing. but note that the police report said he received medical care before he went to the police station. still, he doesnt have a splint or bandages on his nose/face or back of the head. so how serious are the injuries? i would love to see the actual medical records, which the paramedics most likely prepared. I think we were told a while back he was released that day so the injuries couldn't be anything close to a concussion which they would keep him there for showing signs of. though i never read the original source, just second hand references from interviewers themselves on local news. I think it's safe to say either way, that given zimmerman's face in that video and his quick release, that he was not ever knocked unconscious, did not get a black eye, did not cut his face, did not injure his legs (no limp in his step) more than scrapes, did not injure his arms, did not injure his ribs (he is breathing regularly). the list of possible injuries he could have sustained is mostly scrapes/bruises on his legs/chest. Which doesn't seem to work with him being pounded to the ground beaten in the face and having his face thrown into cement. | ||
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Triscuit
United States722 Posts
On March 29 2012 10:20 dAPhREAk wrote: i was thinking the same thing. but note that the police report said he received medical care before he went to the police station. still, he doesnt have a splint or bandages on his nose/face or back of the head. so how serious are the injuries? i would love to see the actual medical records, which the paramedics most likely prepared. Yeah, this is odd. The way those on the side of Zimmerman portray the situation is that Zimmerman was being beaten so badly that he legitimately feared for his life. But I really don't see anything wrong with the guy. At around 1:05, I see a dark spot on the back of his head, slightly right of center, and that looks somewhat like a bandage, but it might be an artifact of resolution/lighting. I'm trying to see if there's any bruising to the face or anything in the last few seconds, but the player is so garbage that it's hard to get it to smoothly play back. Would he have had time to change his clothes if he was treated for a broken nose? Because he'd probably be covered in blood if that were the case. | ||
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SySLeif
United States123 Posts
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Saryph
United States1955 Posts
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