|
This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:On July 12 2013 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 12 2013 23:20 Cheerio wrote:On July 12 2013 18:15 Velocirapture wrote:On July 12 2013 15:41 Kaitlin wrote:
Here's what we know:
1. Trayvon told Rachel that "creepy ass cracker" was following him for no reason. At some point she told him to run, and he said "Nah, I'm almost home". (This does not equate to I'm in my fucking backyard...)
2. Zimmerman was parked in his car (at its final parking place) when Trayvon "started running" and Zimmerman lost sight of him as Trayvon went down the "dog walk".
3. Zimmerman got out of his car after this and started heading across the top of the "T" part of the sidewalk.
4. Some "unexplained" time passed. I am unclear on exactly how much time and how they figured it, as it seems they are using Rachel's conversation with Trayvon in conjunction with the 911 calls, but they don't necessarily follow the same baseline. We know the 911 calls will all match up, but the Rachel / Trayvon call was different.
5. There was a confrontation, keys, flashlights, phones, miscellaneous other shit ended up strewn about the scene and George shot Trayvon.
Here's what I think happened:
1. Trayvon noticed Zimmerman following him, relayed his displeasure about it to Rachel, circled Zimmerman's car at one point to check him out, walked across the top of the "T".
2. Trayvon knew George was in the car watching him, so just before he went of Zimmerman's sight, he started to run, as if to bait Zimmerman to get out to follow him so Trayvon could ambush him. Trayvon wanted to beat this "creepy ass cracker's" ass because Trayvon was being profiled simply because he was black, and he likes that about as much as Rachel likes to testify.
3. Trayvon likely stopped running after he got out of Zimmerman's sight and found a nice place to hide in the pitch black, so he could ambush George as he came looking for him. Trayvon likely told Rachel what he was about to do, as this explains why she thought it was "just a fight" and didn't call anyone when texts and phone calls to Trayvon's phone went unanswered. Trayvon probably was waiting for George to come down the "T" where it was nice and dark for a better ambush, but George probably went directly across to check for an address. On George's way back to his car, Trayvon noticed George wasn't coming down the "T" as he had hoped for, so after George had passed, Trayvon came out to confront George.
4. The best I can think of to explain any "unexplained" gaps of time is George may have come down the "T" to see if he could find Trayvon, but not far enough down the "T" for Trayvon to successfully ambush him. It also might be that Rachel's timeline is fucked up because she either heard the entire incident through the phone, or Trayvon disconnected the call beforehand. Rachel's reaction to this is just too fishy to be as she explains it.
5. The confrontation probably went similar to how George described it, as far as dialog. It's entirely possible the confrontation didn't originate at the "T", but down closer to where they were seen by John Good. I have a feeling George just fudged that little distance to remove the "following" aspect of having gone down the "T". In either case, it seems it was a planned ambush by Trayvon and he got shot for it.
Pretty sure that's consistent with all evidence and also matches with the "left to right" movement heard by the one witness in the beginning of the trial, although I think she's full of shit because who remembers people walking outside when there is no reason to remember ? I find this whole "ambush" line of reasoning very suspect given your "what we know" points. I am not saying your story didn't happen, Im simply saying that it conflicts with every experience I have ever had with kids like Tayvon and guys like Zimmerman. Unless this conflicts with some piece of evidence I have not heard the Occam's Razor scenario given the facts is, in my mind, as follows. Tayvon is walking home and notices he is being followed. The first instinct is to be scared since the nature of the follower is uncertain so he flees and hides. Zimmerman pulls over and begins pursuit on foot. At this point Tayvon knows it is just this one guy and he gets angry, comes out and starts barking just like all stupid kids do. With Tayvon in his face, likely saying he is gonna beat his ass, Zimmerman pushes Tayvon away and violence ensues. During the course of a normal fistfight the presence of a gun is revealed and the situation explodes. Now, my account is just as speculative but it has the added bonus of being an extraordinarily typical interaction between people. BTW, none of this means he is guilty of murder. when a normal kid is being followed 30 yards away from "home" he doesn't hide in the neighbours bushes, he runs home. How many "normal kids" do you know that are suspiciously followed by an unannounced person who gets out of their car to chase them? It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals late at night. Actually better yet, civilians shouldn't be following people around late at night full stop, at least police are well marked AND trained to deal with these kind of encounters.
How would you enforce this mythical laws you are talking about? What if I follow someone and prevent a crime without the use of violence? Should I be charged with a crime because I prevented one?
This sort of mythical legal-crafting forgets you need to enforce the laws after you write them and make sure they don't do more harm than good.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 13 2013 00:09 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:09 BigFan wrote:
O'Mara is destroying this! Wonder what the prosecutor will respond with. He'll yell louder and pound his fist harder.
LOL ya just watch. It's gonna happen. Their styles are so difficult, it's really interesting to watch.
On July 13 2013 00:09 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:09 BigFan wrote:
O'Mara is destroying this! Wonder what the prosecutor will respond with. They better have that 1 piece of evidence!! :D~
they can't prove 100% that Zimmerman went after Trayvon to kill him = reasonable doubt = case closed lol. I doubt they'll have that 1 piece of evidence unless it was hidden XD
|
On July 13 2013 00:12 autoexec wrote:
MOM is sounding very cocky. I hope he doesn't go down due to that and an emotional rebuttal.
Attorneys are supposed to mirror the emotions that the jurors are likely feeling in their presentations on closing argument. Showing indignation when pointing out the gaping holes in the State's case and arguments is appropriate.
|
On July 13 2013 00:10 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:08 Sermokala wrote:On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:On July 12 2013 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 12 2013 23:20 Cheerio wrote:
[quote]when a normal kid is being followed 30 yards away from "home" he doesn't hide in the neighbours bushes, he runs home.
How many "normal kids" do you know that are suspiciously followed by an unannounced person who gets out of their car to chase them? It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals around late at night. To be fair he had the gun to protect himself from those criminals late at night. But don't you think it would have been much better if he had simply reported the suspicious person to police and moved on...exactly like neighborhood watch policy instructs? And remember, Martin almost got the gun. Having the gun was kinda a gamble for Zimmerman. If Martin had gotten ahold of it Zimmerman would have been dead instead.
Its past that point.... he was attacked and he defended himself. There is no point in bringing up the 911 call.
|
On July 13 2013 00:15 FarmI3oy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:10 Klondikebar wrote:On July 13 2013 00:08 Sermokala wrote:On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:On July 12 2013 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
How many "normal kids" do you know that are suspiciously followed by an unannounced person who gets out of their car to chase them? It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals around late at night. To be fair he had the gun to protect himself from those criminals late at night. But don't you think it would have been much better if he had simply reported the suspicious person to police and moved on...exactly like neighborhood watch policy instructs? And remember, Martin almost got the gun. Having the gun was kinda a gamble for Zimmerman. If Martin had gotten ahold of it Zimmerman would have been dead instead. Its past that point.... he was attacked and he defended himself. There is no point in bringing up the 911 call.
Not if we're simply talking about the trial. If we extend it to the broader discussion of racial profiling, citizen armament, using guns for personal defense, and vigilante justice, it's a very valid statement (and the 911 call is relevant as well).
|
On July 13 2013 00:15 FarmI3oy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:10 Klondikebar wrote:On July 13 2013 00:08 Sermokala wrote:On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:On July 12 2013 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
How many "normal kids" do you know that are suspiciously followed by an unannounced person who gets out of their car to chase them? It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals around late at night. To be fair he had the gun to protect himself from those criminals late at night. But don't you think it would have been much better if he had simply reported the suspicious person to police and moved on...exactly like neighborhood watch policy instructs? And remember, Martin almost got the gun. Having the gun was kinda a gamble for Zimmerman. If Martin had gotten ahold of it Zimmerman would have been dead instead. Its past that point.... he was attacked and he defended himself. There is no point in bringing up the 911 call.
More importantly, his judgment up to that point was questionable, but did not warrant or justify Martin's actions in any way.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
Trayvon's parents left. Must be pretty difficult to hear your son lost half his blood and suc.
|
Not in the state of florida or pretty much any state. Prior events leading up to the attack are thrown out because he did nothing wrong.
|
Prosecutors look like they want to curl up in a ball and die.
|
On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:On July 12 2013 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 12 2013 23:20 Cheerio wrote:On July 12 2013 18:15 Velocirapture wrote:On July 12 2013 15:41 Kaitlin wrote:
Here's what we know:
1. Trayvon told Rachel that "creepy ass cracker" was following him for no reason. At some point she told him to run, and he said "Nah, I'm almost home". (This does not equate to I'm in my fucking backyard...)
2. Zimmerman was parked in his car (at its final parking place) when Trayvon "started running" and Zimmerman lost sight of him as Trayvon went down the "dog walk".
3. Zimmerman got out of his car after this and started heading across the top of the "T" part of the sidewalk.
4. Some "unexplained" time passed. I am unclear on exactly how much time and how they figured it, as it seems they are using Rachel's conversation with Trayvon in conjunction with the 911 calls, but they don't necessarily follow the same baseline. We know the 911 calls will all match up, but the Rachel / Trayvon call was different.
5. There was a confrontation, keys, flashlights, phones, miscellaneous other shit ended up strewn about the scene and George shot Trayvon.
Here's what I think happened:
1. Trayvon noticed Zimmerman following him, relayed his displeasure about it to Rachel, circled Zimmerman's car at one point to check him out, walked across the top of the "T".
2. Trayvon knew George was in the car watching him, so just before he went of Zimmerman's sight, he started to run, as if to bait Zimmerman to get out to follow him so Trayvon could ambush him. Trayvon wanted to beat this "creepy ass cracker's" ass because Trayvon was being profiled simply because he was black, and he likes that about as much as Rachel likes to testify.
3. Trayvon likely stopped running after he got out of Zimmerman's sight and found a nice place to hide in the pitch black, so he could ambush George as he came looking for him. Trayvon likely told Rachel what he was about to do, as this explains why she thought it was "just a fight" and didn't call anyone when texts and phone calls to Trayvon's phone went unanswered. Trayvon probably was waiting for George to come down the "T" where it was nice and dark for a better ambush, but George probably went directly across to check for an address. On George's way back to his car, Trayvon noticed George wasn't coming down the "T" as he had hoped for, so after George had passed, Trayvon came out to confront George.
4. The best I can think of to explain any "unexplained" gaps of time is George may have come down the "T" to see if he could find Trayvon, but not far enough down the "T" for Trayvon to successfully ambush him. It also might be that Rachel's timeline is fucked up because she either heard the entire incident through the phone, or Trayvon disconnected the call beforehand. Rachel's reaction to this is just too fishy to be as she explains it.
5. The confrontation probably went similar to how George described it, as far as dialog. It's entirely possible the confrontation didn't originate at the "T", but down closer to where they were seen by John Good. I have a feeling George just fudged that little distance to remove the "following" aspect of having gone down the "T". In either case, it seems it was a planned ambush by Trayvon and he got shot for it.
Pretty sure that's consistent with all evidence and also matches with the "left to right" movement heard by the one witness in the beginning of the trial, although I think she's full of shit because who remembers people walking outside when there is no reason to remember ? I find this whole "ambush" line of reasoning very suspect given your "what we know" points. I am not saying your story didn't happen, Im simply saying that it conflicts with every experience I have ever had with kids like Tayvon and guys like Zimmerman. Unless this conflicts with some piece of evidence I have not heard the Occam's Razor scenario given the facts is, in my mind, as follows. Tayvon is walking home and notices he is being followed. The first instinct is to be scared since the nature of the follower is uncertain so he flees and hides. Zimmerman pulls over and begins pursuit on foot. At this point Tayvon knows it is just this one guy and he gets angry, comes out and starts barking just like all stupid kids do. With Tayvon in his face, likely saying he is gonna beat his ass, Zimmerman pushes Tayvon away and violence ensues. During the course of a normal fistfight the presence of a gun is revealed and the situation explodes. Now, my account is just as speculative but it has the added bonus of being an extraordinarily typical interaction between people. BTW, none of this means he is guilty of murder. when a normal kid is being followed 30 yards away from "home" he doesn't hide in the neighbours bushes, he runs home. How many "normal kids" do you know that are suspiciously followed by an unannounced person who gets out of their car to chase them? It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious.
he was continuosly beating the hell out of a person yelling for help for 40 seconds, and probably showed the intention of using the gun that Zimmerman had on him. So if this kind behavior is normal for some personality types then shooting them is an option in some extraordinary circumstances.
|
On July 13 2013 00:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:15 FarmI3oy wrote:On July 13 2013 00:10 Klondikebar wrote:On July 13 2013 00:08 Sermokala wrote:On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:
[quote]
It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals around late at night. To be fair he had the gun to protect himself from those criminals late at night. But don't you think it would have been much better if he had simply reported the suspicious person to police and moved on...exactly like neighborhood watch policy instructs? And remember, Martin almost got the gun. Having the gun was kinda a gamble for Zimmerman. If Martin had gotten ahold of it Zimmerman would have been dead instead. Its past that point.... he was attacked and he defended himself. There is no point in bringing up the 911 call. More importantly, his judgment up to that point was questionable, but did not warrant or justify Martin's actions in any way.
Given the evidence presented, yeah I have to agree. I guess I just need to get it through my head that being a reckless dumbass isn't illegal. God I wish it was illegal sometimes.
|
Are you allowed to walk in late to court and leave early without reprimand? Or are they given special treatment since their son is dead?
|
On July 13 2013 00:21 FarmI3oy wrote:
Not in the state of florida or pretty much any state. Prior events leading up to the attack are thrown out because he did nothing wrong.
GZ did plenty of things wrong, just not criminal in themselves leading up to the attack.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 13 2013 00:21 On_Slaught wrote:
Prosecutors look like they want to curl up in a ball and die.
well, it's not looking good for them at all. He looks like he's about to cry ><
|
I think I saw Dr. Phil's lower lip quivering for a second there...
|
On July 13 2013 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:21 FarmI3oy wrote:
Not in the state of florida or pretty much any state. Prior events leading up to the attack are thrown out because he did nothing wrong. GZ did plenty of things wrong, just not criminal in themselves leading up to the attack.
Which is my point. He did nothing criminal (illegal).
Watching the livestream now really brings the phrase "Knocks it out of the park" to mind.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
Anyone know why the prosecution gets to present for another hour after the defense? I know its 3 hours each but why does the prosecution get to end?
|
On July 13 2013 00:30 BigFan wrote:
Anyone know why the prosecution gets to present for another hour after the defense? I know its 3 hours each but why does the prosecution get to end?
Because they have the burden of proof. They speak first in openings and last in closings.
|
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 13 2013 00:30 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:30 BigFan wrote:
Anyone know why the prosecution gets to present for another hour after the defense? I know its 3 hours each but why does the prosecution get to end? Because they have the burden of proof. They speak first in openings and last in closings.
oh ok makes sense, thanks!
|
On July 13 2013 00:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2013 00:03 zbedlam wrote:On July 13 2013 00:00 Klondikebar wrote:On July 12 2013 23:57 Sermokala wrote:On July 12 2013 23:50 ConGee wrote:On July 12 2013 23:48 aksfjh wrote:On July 12 2013 23:34 ZasZ. wrote:On July 12 2013 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 12 2013 23:20 Cheerio wrote:On July 12 2013 18:15 Velocirapture wrote:
[quote]
I find this whole "ambush" line of reasoning very suspect given your "what we know" points. I am not saying your story didn't happen, Im simply saying that it conflicts with every experience I have ever had with kids like Tayvon and guys like Zimmerman.
Unless this conflicts with some piece of evidence I have not heard the Occam's Razor scenario given the facts is, in my mind, as follows. Tayvon is walking home and notices he is being followed. The first instinct is to be scared since the nature of the follower is uncertain so he flees and hides. Zimmerman pulls over and begins pursuit on foot. At this point Tayvon knows it is just this one guy and he gets angry, comes out and starts barking just like all stupid kids do. With Tayvon in his face, likely saying he is gonna beat his ass, Zimmerman pushes Tayvon away and violence ensues. During the course of a normal fistfight the presence of a gun is revealed and the situation explodes.
Now, my account is just as speculative but it has the added bonus of being an extraordinarily typical interaction between people. BTW, none of this means he is guilty of murder.
when a normal kid is being followed 30 yards away from "home" he doesn't hide in the neighbours bushes, he runs home. How many "normal kids" do you know that are suspiciously followed by an unannounced person who gets out of their car to chase them? It happened to me walking to school (7th-8th grade) once. Pretty sure it was a pedophile, but my walking route was a pretty public street so I just made sure to walk fast. There are many reasons that Trayvon could assume Zimmerman was following him for, and many people are right in that most of them are malicious in nature. But I don't buy the "he didn't want to lead him to his house" argument. For all intents and purposes, in these situations, you are safe once you reach your destination and get off the street. If Trayvon had just hurried home, he would have been fine. I have no doubt that it was the confrontational, alpha male personality that came to light through the data found on his phone that ultimately led to his death that night, so if people are going to try to hold Zimmerman accountable for shooting him, they need to understand that Trayvon was equally accountable for putting himself in a position where he needed to be shot. WTF man? So certain personality types just need a good shooting to set them straight, or what? Certainly you can't be serious. He proceeded to pound Zimmerman's face into the concrete for a least 40 seconds. If pounding someone's face into concrete for forty seconds isn't opening yourself up to the use of deadly force, I don't know what is. I would say He could use a good tazeing for what he did but theres no reason why anyone deserves to die for being a huge dick. I think all of us can agree it would have been a much different and better situation if any "neighborhood watch" people carry tazers instead of a potential murder weapon. This is what I was trying to say earlier in the thread but got laughed off for being a pansy/delusional. Carrying a gun as a neighborhood watch is kinda overkill. Especially since in a lot of countries the police themselves don't even carry guns. And in America, neighborhood watches certainly don't carry guns themselves. Or follow criminals on foot for that matter. But yeah smashing someone's head into the pavement is a bit more aggressive than simple dickishness. A much better alternative would be not allowing people incapable of defending themselves from an unarmed assailant to go around following potential criminals late at night. Actually better yet, civilians shouldn't be following people around late at night full stop, at least police are well marked AND trained to deal with these kind of encounters. How would you enforce this mythical laws you are talking about? What if I follow someone and prevent a crime without the use of violence? Should I be charged with a crime because I prevented one? This sort of mythical legal-crafting forgets you need to enforce the laws after you write them and make sure they don't do more harm than good.
Stalking is considered harassment and intimidation, reporting someone for following you would warrant a response - odds are it would only be a warning if this was your first offense. So following people is already a crime? I don't follow you.
All I'm trying to say is, if someone wants to play local police they should be trained to do so, that way they don't have to shoot the first person that fights them.
If you follow someone and prevented a crime without the use of violence, odds are you would be considered a hero. However if you are going to go out and specifically look for potential criminals, you should be a cop or at least clearly marked so the person you are following doesn't view it as an act of aggression.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
