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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
Not taking any stance in this, but just pointing out. I'm sure certain verbal exchange wouldn't protect him, for example "I'm going to rob you.", or "I'm going to kill you". Then the guy who initiated assault may become self defense?
That would be assault, so yea, no matter what words he said barring assault* then.
The new footage from ABC at the police station seems to indicate that the shooter was unharmed after the arrest. It will be difficult in the court to prove that the shooter was under any real threat since there is no proof of any struggle. A heated discussion and possibly an attempt to push the shooter over may not be sufficient enough claim the right to take action.
He could have cleaned up, they do that. Video footage at the police station isn't really proof. I'm sure the cops have video footage that's more recent though. The cops did say they saw him bloodied, if the witness testimony means nothing.
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With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them
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On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them
I tend to disagree strongly with this opinion. Having an history of marijuana consumption or graffiti doesn't make you a threatening individual. The reason why Trayvon punched Zimmerman is that, in my opinion, he was afraid. If what Zimmerman says is true (i.e he punched him hard and slammed his head against the floor), then Trayvon way overreacted to the sentiment of fear.
But in any case, does that make an excuse for shooting a teenager? From my European point of view, I would say definitely no. The power to sanction is in the hands of the state, and the fact that any individual has the right to defend its land or property with guns is a slippery slope. I don't want this thread to derail into a gun control argument, but my opinion on that matter is that allowing people to own and carry guns is a bit dangerous, and this additional danger does not overweight the fact that it can sometimes be useful for people to defend themselves.
For instance, let's think of a bar fight for a second. People are drunk, are exchanging words, and want to fight. If neither of them carry guns, the worst that can happen is one punching the other badly. If one of them carry a gun or a knife, death can occur, for something as trivial as a drunken argument.
Now let's see this situation from what happened to Trayvon. What if Zimmerman was not entitled to shoot or carry a gun? The person responsible for the violent assault would have been sent before the judge and sentenced to something appropriate. No death whatsoever. My conclusion is that you can't blame Zimmerman if all that was said is true, but you should definitely rethink the "Stand your ground law", or even gun control (but once again, rethinking gun control won't happen, and this is my European opinion).
Regards, and I hope I could make myself clear despite english not being my first language.
I'm open to any discussion regarding what I said.
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There circulate so many versions of this event. Presumably Zimmerman said he was attacked by Trayvon from behind one time. Another time it was the "Do you have a problem", "No", "Now you have one" exchange. Both don't really account for what Trayvon's girlfriend heard.
With this conflicting information to say you are 100% sure Zimmerman did the right thing speaks a lot about your perception of reality (and if Trayvon's backstory counts so much without any charges of violence what about Zimmermans background with multiple charges all dropped (his father being a judge and all)).
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On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them
I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior.
Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case.
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On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior.
How can you not think that his past behavior is relevant? His history of theft implies that he could very well have been behind some of the previous burglaries in the neighborhood and his violent history with the bus driver implies that he may very well have jumped Zimmerman first as he walked back to his car. Zimmerman did not have to understand any of Martins past, thats the thing. He just thought he looked suspicious and when evidence like this comes out against Martin, it makes Zimmermans story become much more believable.
Side note, the video they just released about Zimmerman getting out of the cop car was horribly skewed by anderson cooper (big surprise). It is pretty inconclusive as far as Im concerned but you do see a cop look at zimmermans head multiple times and wipe his hands off after touching him as well. I dont know why police would lie about him being bloody in their report so why would anderson cooper and Fox try to imply anything else?
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On March 29 2012 20:44 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. How can you not think that his past behavior is relevant? His history of theft implies that he could very well have been behind some of the previous burglaries in the neighborhood and his violent history with the bus driver implies that he may very well have jumped Zimmerman first as he walked back to his car. Zimmerman did not have to understand any of Martins past, thats the thing. He just thought he looked suspicious and when evidence like this comes out against Martin, it makes Zimmermans story become much more believable.
Because, you can't evaluate how reasonable Zimmerman's action were while assuming that he knew he was following a delinquent. Though you are right that it does help in evaluating the credibility of a story, that isn't the same thing.
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On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them
what new info could make any reasonable mind think zimmerman did the right thing "100" percent? IMO, the 100 percent right thing to do would be to say "the dispatch said i don't need to follow him, let me stay and wait for the police"....
with the new footage of him arriving at the police station, it just muddies this whole thing even more, and like i said in the couple posts i made in the original thread the police are seeming more and more responsible for this clusterfuck (i.e. what happened after the tragic event). So sure, zimmerman could have "cleaned" up before arriving at the police station. but seeing what he's gotten out of before, having what seems to be decent council and a retired judge father for christs sake, why hasn't anyone in his corner released pictures, up close of his injuries? i dont see how it could hurt him, it could only make people think...uh oh, he may have a point, look at his nose etc etc.....
there are also reports from the guy who prepared Martin's body for his funeral:
http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/28/funeral-director-saw-no-signs-of-fight-on-trayvons-hands/?iref=allsearch
[quote]“As for his hands and knuckles, I didn’t see any evidence he had been fighting anybody,” Kurtz said.
Citing police sources, the Orlando Sentinel reported that Zimmerman told investigators Martin punched him and slammed his head into the ground repeatedly before he fired the shot that killed the unarmed 17-year-old. He claimed he shot Martin in self-defense, and he has not been charged in the case at this point.
While Kurtz is not a forensics expert, the funeral director said he has handled the bodies of many homicide victims in his career. This case in particular affected him as he learned more about what happened to Trayvon Martin and how the case was handled.
“I think the police investigation was the most unprofessional one I've ever seen in my lifetime,” Kurtz said./quote]
now he does say he is not a forensic expert, so take with a grain of salt...but this, and, moreso those surveillance tapes, just really give me some chills. however i want to see what the medical reports and other info have to say (or what the special investigation comes up with) before i call the tape a "smoking gun" or whatever
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On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case.
It's about framing. Framing the story in a light that doesn't necessarily portray Trayvon as a perfect high school kid, only carrying skittles. (Make sure to mention skittles everytime you describe him, it helps, the news does it)
It shows that maybe he DID look suspicious to Zimmerman and rightly so, maybe he did attempt to fight, etc. Of course using drugs and burglary don't necessary mean he should die, but it paints the entire picture in the light it should be painted in, instead of showing us the half-truths, the doctored images, the fake backstory here.
As for the police video, I think it's a wash overall. Yeah, I don't SEE any gash on the back of his head, we don't know how big it was or where exactly, and the video isn't exactly of the highest quality. Yeah, almost certainly, he was treated and cleaned up before he came in, they don't detain people who are bleeding everywhere without treating them. As for the nose, it's impossible to tell from the video. A nose can break without blood or even really pain (After the initial impact) and doesn't necessarily need to be in a splint. I know, I've broken my nose, it's a little crooked now, but it was never put in a splint, didn't bleed, and honestly, didn't even hurt. You wouldn't have known it two hours later that I had broken my nose, even if you had stood in front of me and inspected me.
As for the funeral director, I'm not totally discounting his testimony, I'd just like to see it backed up by a more official source, like an autopsy. Just a few stray quotes from the guy who prepared the body aren't much to go on. Though it would be interesting to know the detail he mentioned.
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On March 29 2012 21:26 Felnarion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case. It's about framing. Framing the story in a light that doesn't necessarily portray Trayvon as a perfect high school kid, only carrying skittles. (Make sure to mention skittles everytime you describe him, it helps, the news does it) It shows that maybe he DID look suspicious to Zimmerman and rightly so, maybe he did attempt to fight, etc. Of course using drugs and burglary don't necessary mean he should die, but it paints the entire picture in the light it should be painted in, instead of showing us the half-truths, the doctored images, the fake backstory here.
Zimmerman quite clearly didn't follow Martin because he looked burglarly and drug usery, he wasn't high and considering he was alone and on his way to his father's girlfriends house he was not about to do any burglaring, he followed him because he was a young black guy in a hoodie. The fact of the matter is that there was nothing about Martin that could have possibly been a good reason to follow him, or call the police for. Racism was definitely a motivator, I'm not sure if anyone is disputing this?
While I agree that trying to paint Martin as a harmless child and continually mentioning Skittles is horribly manipulative. It is equally deceptive to portray Zimmerman as anything other than a paranoid racist nutcase. Because, from the facts about him, that is the conclusion I would come to.
That said, Zimmerman may well have acted in self-defense in a manner that is not punishable by US/Florida law, and Martin may have been guilty of assault under these same laws. But fact of the matter is that a young person is dead because a racist was being racist, and that does not sit well with me.
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On March 29 2012 21:48 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:26 Felnarion wrote:On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case. It's about framing. Framing the story in a light that doesn't necessarily portray Trayvon as a perfect high school kid, only carrying skittles. (Make sure to mention skittles everytime you describe him, it helps, the news does it) It shows that maybe he DID look suspicious to Zimmerman and rightly so, maybe he did attempt to fight, etc. Of course using drugs and burglary don't necessary mean he should die, but it paints the entire picture in the light it should be painted in, instead of showing us the half-truths, the doctored images, the fake backstory here. Zimmerman quite clearly didn't follow Martin because he looked burglarly and drug usery, he wasn't high and considering he was alone and on his way to his father's girlfriends house he was not about to do any burglaring, he followed him because he was a young black guy in a hoodie. The fact of the matter is that there was nothing about Martin that could have possibly been a good reason to follow him, or call the police for. Racism was definitely a motivator, I'm not sure if anyone is disputing this? While I agree that trying to paint Martin as a harmless child and continually mentioning Skittles is horribly manipulative. It is equally deceptive to portray Zimmerman as anything other than a paranoid racist nutcase. Because, from the facts about him, that is the conclusion I would come to. That said, Zimmerman may well have acted in self-defense in a manner that is not punishable by US/Florida law, and Martin may have been guilty of assault under these same laws. But fact of the matter is that a young person is dead because a racist was being racist, and that does not sit well with me.
Unless of course you consider a 17 year old kid walking around on a rainy night, alone, in a bad neighborhood, who you perceive to be "on drugs" (Which he could have been, lets be honest, we need the autopsy for that) suspicious.
Which I do.
EDIT: Maybe not a bad neighborhood necessarily, but one dealing with a rash of burglaries, break ins, and crime.
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On March 29 2012 23:07 Haemonculus wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475Interesting new video from the night of the shooting. I admit I haven't been following this case as close as others, but can anyone confirm that this footage is from that night? If so the whole "he was smashing my face into the pavement" defense seems to have just gone up in smoke...
This is in fact video that took place after the incident
Police at the scene said the 28-year-old shooter was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head, and Zimmerman’s lawyer said his client suffered a broken nose from Martin’s punch.
But no blood or bruising is visible in the video taken by a police surveillance camera that shows uniformed officers leading a handcuffed Zimmerman into the police station, nor are there blood stains visible on his clothes.
ABC obtained the video from Sanford authorities, who said it would be made available on the city’s website.
source: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-killer-george-zimmerman-appears-uninjured-in-security-video-after-shooting/
edit: Is there any information as to the number of shots fired, and the bullet's point of entry? I haven't been able to find anything.
I've seen some people in this thread talking about Zimmerman's pre-shooting actions being in step with what would be expected from a neighborhood watch. This is from the U.S. neighborhood watch's official twitter. https://twitter.com/#!/USAonWatch
Our hearts go out to the #Martin family. #NeighborhoodWatch does not support any act of intervention by a watch group or individual ever.
I'm guessing that an act of intervention would include any form of interaction with the "suspicious person" beyond contacting authorities.
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On March 29 2012 23:11 Zorkmid wrote:This is in fact video that took place after the incident Show nested quote +Police at the scene said the 28-year-old shooter was bleeding from the nose and the back of the head, and Zimmerman’s lawyer said his client suffered a broken nose from Martin’s punch.
But no blood or bruising is visible in the video taken by a police surveillance camera that shows uniformed officers leading a handcuffed Zimmerman into the police station, nor are there blood stains visible on his clothes.
ABC obtained the video from Sanford authorities, who said it would be made available on the city’s website. source: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03/29/trayvon-martin-killer-george-zimmerman-appears-uninjured-in-security-video-after-shooting/edit: Is there any information as to the number of shots fired, and the bullet's point of entry? I haven't been able to find anything.
It's been stated in this thread multiple times that he was "shot in the chest". I haven't seen anything more conclusive than that. From the recorded 911 call and from witnessreports there was one shot and then silence.
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On March 29 2012 23:07 Haemonculus wrote:http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/george-zimmerman-police-surveillance-16024475Interesting new video from the night of the shooting. I admit I haven't been following this case as close as others, but can anyone confirm that this footage is from that night? If so the whole "he was smashing my face into the pavement" defense seems to have just gone up in smoke...
As some here have already mentioned, the EMTs at the scene would certainly have cleaned and treated Zimmerman. A grainy police video is hardly evidence that Zimmerman had no injuries. Also, if people choose to believe what they see in the video and ignore all else, you are essentially accusing the police, Zimmerman, and the witnesses of a conspiracy as they have all said Zimmerman was bloodied and looked like he had been in a struggle.
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On March 29 2012 21:48 Crushinator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:26 Felnarion wrote:On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case. It's about framing. Framing the story in a light that doesn't necessarily portray Trayvon as a perfect high school kid, only carrying skittles. (Make sure to mention skittles everytime you describe him, it helps, the news does it) It shows that maybe he DID look suspicious to Zimmerman and rightly so, maybe he did attempt to fight, etc. Of course using drugs and burglary don't necessary mean he should die, but it paints the entire picture in the light it should be painted in, instead of showing us the half-truths, the doctored images, the fake backstory here. Zimmerman quite clearly didn't follow Martin because he looked burglarly and drug usery, he wasn't high and considering he was alone and on his way to his father's girlfriends house he was not about to do any burglaring, he followed him because he was a young black guy in a hoodie. The fact of the matter is that there was nothing about Martin that could have possibly been a good reason to follow him, or call the police for. Racism was definitely a motivator, I'm not sure if anyone is disputing this? While I agree that trying to paint Martin as a harmless child and continually mentioning Skittles is horribly manipulative. It is equally deceptive to portray Zimmerman as anything other than a paranoid racist nutcase. Because, from the facts about him, that is the conclusion I would come to. That said, Zimmerman may well have acted in self-defense in a manner that is not punishable by US/Florida law, and Martin may have been guilty of assault under these same laws. But fact of the matter is that a young person is dead because a racist was being racist, and that does not sit well with me.
how do you know that Zimmerman followed him and suspected him because he was black? that is a pure assumption on your part, and it's a baseless assumption at that. there is no evidence at this point to suggest that Zimmerman is a racist, so calling him one based off what "might have happened" seems totally unfair to me. maybe he is a racist, maybe he isn't. maybe he followed Trayvon because he saw a black kid in a hoodie, or maybe it was because he honestly thought that there was something legitimately suspicious about the kid. you have no idea and are just making up an explanation that sounds like it fits a narrative. what facts about him lead you to believe that he is a racist nutcase?
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On March 29 2012 23:37 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 21:48 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 21:26 Felnarion wrote:On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case. It's about framing. Framing the story in a light that doesn't necessarily portray Trayvon as a perfect high school kid, only carrying skittles. (Make sure to mention skittles everytime you describe him, it helps, the news does it) It shows that maybe he DID look suspicious to Zimmerman and rightly so, maybe he did attempt to fight, etc. Of course using drugs and burglary don't necessary mean he should die, but it paints the entire picture in the light it should be painted in, instead of showing us the half-truths, the doctored images, the fake backstory here. Zimmerman quite clearly didn't follow Martin because he looked burglarly and drug usery, he wasn't high and considering he was alone and on his way to his father's girlfriends house he was not about to do any burglaring, he followed him because he was a young black guy in a hoodie. The fact of the matter is that there was nothing about Martin that could have possibly been a good reason to follow him, or call the police for. Racism was definitely a motivator, I'm not sure if anyone is disputing this? While I agree that trying to paint Martin as a harmless child and continually mentioning Skittles is horribly manipulative. It is equally deceptive to portray Zimmerman as anything other than a paranoid racist nutcase. Because, from the facts about him, that is the conclusion I would come to. That said, Zimmerman may well have acted in self-defense in a manner that is not punishable by US/Florida law, and Martin may have been guilty of assault under these same laws. But fact of the matter is that a young person is dead because a racist was being racist, and that does not sit well with me. how do you know that Zimmerman followed him and suspected him because he was black? that is a pure assumption on your part, and it's a baseless assumption at that. there is no evidence at this point to suggest that Zimmerman is a racist, so calling him one based off what "might have happened" seems totally unfair to me. maybe he is a racist, maybe he isn't. maybe he followed Trayvon because he saw a black kid in a hoodie, or maybe it was because he honestly thought that there was something legitimately suspicious about the kid. you have no idea and are just making up an explanation that sounds like it fits a narrative. what facts about him lead you to believe that he is a racist nutcase?
The fact that he once called police to report a "suspicious black kid about 7-9" years old means he might not have the best judgement as to what should be deemed suspicious.
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All I can say is that the new events which were released certainly turned the tables a bit.
I'd say shooting the kid is a bit too extreme, but don't give Zimmerman the full punishment since he was in a situation where he could do next to nothing.
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On March 29 2012 23:42 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:37 sc2superfan101 wrote:On March 29 2012 21:48 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 21:26 Felnarion wrote:On March 29 2012 20:20 Crushinator wrote:On March 29 2012 18:26 pellejohnson wrote:
With all the new info that has leaked especially about trayvons past actions I can honestly say that zimmerman did the right thing 100%. I used to be neutral about it but with all the new facts you'd have to be crazy to defend trayvon.
What bothers me is once again how people listen to the media without thinkin for themselves, it's so sad to see the current generation and how they eat everything media feeds them I don't even know how Martin's past naughty teenage behavior is in any way relevant to the situation, Zimmerman was not even aware of any of these things, so they could not possibly have influenced his decisionmaking. Your argument is basically that shooting someone isn't a big deal if in retrospect it turns out they had a history of deliquent behavior. Your comment about listening to the media without thinking for yourself is quite ironic, considering you seem to have based your own opinion on minor facts about Martin selected by these same media. Also, your assertion that anyone that doesn't share your opinion is crazy is not only fallacious but shows a deep lack of understanding of the various considerations that go into this case. It's about framing. Framing the story in a light that doesn't necessarily portray Trayvon as a perfect high school kid, only carrying skittles. (Make sure to mention skittles everytime you describe him, it helps, the news does it) It shows that maybe he DID look suspicious to Zimmerman and rightly so, maybe he did attempt to fight, etc. Of course using drugs and burglary don't necessary mean he should die, but it paints the entire picture in the light it should be painted in, instead of showing us the half-truths, the doctored images, the fake backstory here. Zimmerman quite clearly didn't follow Martin because he looked burglarly and drug usery, he wasn't high and considering he was alone and on his way to his father's girlfriends house he was not about to do any burglaring, he followed him because he was a young black guy in a hoodie. The fact of the matter is that there was nothing about Martin that could have possibly been a good reason to follow him, or call the police for. Racism was definitely a motivator, I'm not sure if anyone is disputing this? While I agree that trying to paint Martin as a harmless child and continually mentioning Skittles is horribly manipulative. It is equally deceptive to portray Zimmerman as anything other than a paranoid racist nutcase. Because, from the facts about him, that is the conclusion I would come to. That said, Zimmerman may well have acted in self-defense in a manner that is not punishable by US/Florida law, and Martin may have been guilty of assault under these same laws. But fact of the matter is that a young person is dead because a racist was being racist, and that does not sit well with me. how do you know that Zimmerman followed him and suspected him because he was black? that is a pure assumption on your part, and it's a baseless assumption at that. there is no evidence at this point to suggest that Zimmerman is a racist, so calling him one based off what "might have happened" seems totally unfair to me. maybe he is a racist, maybe he isn't. maybe he followed Trayvon because he saw a black kid in a hoodie, or maybe it was because he honestly thought that there was something legitimately suspicious about the kid. you have no idea and are just making up an explanation that sounds like it fits a narrative. what facts about him lead you to believe that he is a racist nutcase? The fact that he once called police to report a "suspicious black kid about 7-9" years old means he might not have the best judgement as to what should be deemed suspicious.
i don't know anything about that, but the fact that Zimmerman allegedly tutored black kids for free on weekends at his home, has black family members and black friends could also be good evidence to suggest he's not racist. sometimes things aren't as simple as: suspected a black kid of doing something wrong=racist, paranoid nutcase. maybe he is a racist paranoid nutcase, but we can't know that and no facts suggest that he is, as far as i know. that's my only point.
tragic mistakes sometimes happen, and i think this was a case of two people who were both tragically mistaken. Zimmerman probably honestly believed Martin was up to something, and Martin probably believed Zimmerman was being threatening and that he might have to protect himself with violence. it seems like a tragic accident to me.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://cdn2.dailycaller.com/2012/03/Photo_on_2010-06-17_at_16.05__2_DC-300x225.jpg)
