EPTlove thy neighbor?
The Affordable Healthcare Act in the U.S. Supreme Court -…
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
love thy neighbor? | ||
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liberal
1116 Posts
On March 25 2012 09:18 a176 wrote: dear christian majority of america, love thy neighbor? -_- Love thy neighbor, by buying health insurance??? Come on now... | ||
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Gluon
Netherlands407 Posts
On March 25 2012 08:38 liberal wrote: Exactly this. The right wing in America imposes more government control through corporatism, militarism, and reduced civil liberties. The left wing imposes more government control through greater economic control, regulation, and taxation. Neither side succeeds in rolling back the extensions of power of the other party. This is why it makes no difference which party gets elected. They are both inching us towards statism and totalitarianism. I usually think at some point the American people will wake up to this fact, until I see so many posts like this: I blame the educational system for failing to teach the people something as basic and as obvious as the importance of enumerated powers. Forgive me, but I fail to see your point? It makes no difference which party gets elected, ok. You further state some conspiracy theories about corporatism and statism and all that, without any arguments? And then you feel like the Americans should have 'realized' this by now, but:, and then you quote a few people talking about the constitution. What exactly is the link that I am missing? | ||
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liberal
1116 Posts
On March 25 2012 09:45 bblack wrote: Forgive me, but I fail to see your point? It makes no difference which party gets elected, ok. You further state some conspiracy theories about corporatism and statism and all that, without any arguments? And then you feel like the Americans should have 'realized' this by now, but:, and then you quote a few people talking about the constitution. What exactly is the link that I am missing? I thought my point was very clear... The US is slowly moving towards statism and totalitarianism. It's not a "conspiracy," it's simply a consequence of people being ignorant of the importance of strictly enumerated powers in a government. The constitution's purpose is to enumerate federal powers, which is why I brought up the quotes of people disregarding it to prove my point. | ||
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Gluon
Netherlands407 Posts
On March 25 2012 09:55 liberal wrote: I thought my point was very clear... The US is slowly moving towards statism and totalitarianism. It's not a "conspiracy," it's simply a consequence of people being ignorant of the importance of strictly enumerated powers in a government. The constitution's purpose is to enumerate federal powers, which is why I brought up the quotes of people disregarding it to prove my point. Perhaps, time will tell. From my point of view it does seem like people in the US tend to be more afraid of their government. Ah well, let's see what happens  | ||
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OsmOse
Canada18 Posts
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
You further state some conspiracy theories about corporatism and statism and all that, without any arguments? And then you feel like the Americans should have 'realized' this by now, but:, and then you quote a few people talking about the constitution. What exactly is the link that I am missing? These are not consipracy theories. Once Dick Cheyney became VP, things really began to roll- although it was in motion before that. Cheyney has always been well-known for his stance on increasing the powers of the Executive Branch (ffs it has been one of his top career goals). I thought this was common knowledge? The system of Checks and Balances has been shit on ever since, and although both parties are to blame, this is mainly a Republican influence (despite the party's rhetorical droning about the Founding Fathers' inentions). Looking at any of the main players in the GOP, they are all for increasing the powers of the Executive Branch, but the biggest supporter of this on the extreme is Dick Cheyney. Out of all the grievances brought about by today's political players, the using of the Constitution as toilet paper (in systemic issues) has been most grievous by the GOP. | ||
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HyperLink
Canada172 Posts
On March 25 2012 09:29 liberal wrote: -_- Love thy neighbor, by buying health insurance??? Come on now... Why not try the sharing of the food to feed the 5000? It's recorded in all four gospels (John 26:1-14; Matthew 14:13-21; Mark 6:32-44; Luke 9:10-17) so shouldn't that be important...? Moral of the story, share what you have so everyone can be better off... | ||
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liberal
1116 Posts
On March 25 2012 10:58 HyperLink wrote: Why not try the sharing of the food to feed the 5000? It's recorded in all four gospels (John 26:1-14; Matthew 14:13-21; Mark 6:32-44; Luke 9:10-17) so shouldn't that be important...? Moral of the story, share what you have so everyone can be better off... The Affordable Care Act has absolutely nothing to do with "sharing." We are discussing the constitutionality of the individual mandate, not some kind of philosophical or ethical argument for socialized medicine. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
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Chunhyang
Bangladesh1389 Posts
On March 25 2012 11:28 liberal wrote: The Affordable Care Act has absolutely nothing to do with "sharing." We are discussing the constitutionality of the individual mandate, not some kind of philosophical or ethical argument for socialized medicine. Ethics and public policy do in fact sway judges, no matter how much they try to stick to the law's letter. A discussion on the rightness or wrongness of sharing the burden is never completely off topic. Does the word "Obamacare" sound good to you guys? It seems like a word coined by people opposed to the healthcare reform, and thus by linking it to Obama, it comes out that you are automatically an Obama supporter if you in any way shape or form support this. | ||
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Lockitupv2
United States496 Posts
On March 25 2012 10:13 OsmOse wrote: So happy I live in Canada. My sister lives in the US, and is still paying for her 2 children's child birth. The healthcare system down there is beyond curropt. Oddly enough, pets and animals have better healthcare in Canada than humans. If you want something done in a timely manner, Canadians come to the US, why is that? | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On March 25 2012 23:08 Lockitupv2 wrote: Oddly enough, pets and animals have better healthcare in Canada than humans. If you want something done in a timely manner, Canadians come to the US, why is that? So I heard sources are good for redicolous claims. | ||
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Lockitupv2
United States496 Posts
On March 25 2012 23:38 HellRoxYa wrote: So I heard sources are good for redicolous claims. watch the rest of the video, or the whole series if you like. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On March 25 2012 23:54 Lockitupv2 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7XsRzfckneg#t=102s watch the rest of the video, or the whole series if you like. Ancedotal evidence, much like how Michael Moore shows anecdotes for the other side. Medical tourism is like any other trade - it has both imports and exports. You have to look at both to get a meaningful comparison, you can't just say "Canadians come to the US for health care, therefore US health care is superior." That's like pointing out that China buys lots of US products, therefore the US must have a stronger export sector. Wrong. In 2007, an estimated 60-85k foreigners visited the United States for health care. That same year, an estimated 750k Americans visited foreign countries for health care. The market seems to think better services are available elsewhere. http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/Mapping_the_market_for_travel_2134 [edit - if the registration blocks you, this article talks a little about it http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/03/BUGA121GPF.DTL&type=health ] | ||
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liberal
1116 Posts
On March 26 2012 01:44 Signet wrote: Ancedotal evidence, much like how Michael Moore shows anecdotes for the other side. Medical tourism is like any other trade - it has both imports and exports. You have to look at both to get a meaningful comparison, you can't just say "Canadians come to the US for health care, therefore US health care is superior." That's like pointing out that China buys lots of US products, therefore the US must have a stronger export sector. Wrong. In 2007, an estimated 60-85k foreigners visited the United States for health care. That same year, an estimated 750k Americans visited foreign countries for health care. The market seems to think better services are available elsewhere. http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/Mapping_the_market_for_travel_2134 [edit - if the registration blocks you, this article talks a little about it http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/03/BUGA121GPF.DTL&type=health ] There's no way that 750k number is accurate, that sounds way too high. From looking at the article it also says: "I think that's very optimistic," said Towers Perrin's Taylor, who says host countries probably are inflating their reported numbers of American patients. I agree with you though that there is rising medical tourism out of the US, because the costs abroad are so much lower. People are failing to actually assess the reasons for the higher costs and just say the solution is to expand the pool. Basically they are taxing healthy people more to reduce the costs to the unhealthy, instead of actually reducing the costs of the care itself, which is the real problem. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On March 26 2012 02:29 liberal wrote: I agree with you though that there is rising medical tourism out of the US, because the costs abroad are so much lower. People are failing to actually assess the reasons for the higher costs and just say the solution is to expand the pool. Basically they are taxing healthy people more to reduce the costs to the unhealthy, instead of actually reducing the costs of the care itself, which is the real problem. True, cost control and access are somewhat separate questions. And in fact better cost control would help access issues, since more people could afford coverage even without government assistance. | ||
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STYDawn
137 Posts
I agree with most of the regulations, as they will serve as a barricade from corporate greed. But I highly disagree with the penalty's and crap that will begin in 2013. | ||
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Lockitupv2
United States496 Posts
On March 26 2012 09:05 STYDawn wrote: The real fundamental problem is that our Health care is just ineffcient and overpriced as hell. We spend so much of our GDP for Health Care, while getting a fraction of the results of other countries with socialized medicine. But socialized medicine will change nothing as there is a corrupt corporate climate in this country that places money almost always before people. There are exceptions of course, but that is the general rule. I agree with most of the regulations, as they will serve as a barricade from corporate greed. But I highly disagree with the penalty's and crap that will begin in 2013. The left has done a wonderful job of instilling the idea that having money is actually bad. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On March 25 2012 23:08 Lockitupv2 wrote: Oddly enough, pets and animals have better healthcare in Canada than humans. If you want something done in a timely manner, Canadians come to the US, why is that? Shockingly, people with money are willing to go to a country that expedites their service for said money. | ||
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