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Neither governments nor individuals have the right to put limitations in this. It is the woman's responsability and thus the choice is up to her... You can disagree, get disgusted or whatever, but you will never have the right to pose limitations on that. quite simple
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On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control.
The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution.
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On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution.
Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever.
That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country.
More edits: 1) Choose another University. 2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University 3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2.
Seems eminently fair.
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On March 03 2012 23:41 Aterons_toss wrote:
Also... isn't there a law in the US that if the child is born the father has to pay some kind of compensation to the mother until he reaches maturity ? ( there was even a thread about this a few months ago i believe )
So what I gather from reading articles, and from a friend of mine with a deadbeat dad, that compensation is not nearly enough to adequately raise a child, and it's difficult for poor women to pursue legal action on the matter. I guess I brought up the point as more of a theoretical question on how it would change the debate.
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On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country.
Catholic institutions are already tax-exempted and subjected to hundreds of other legal breaks that non-religious organizations don't have. If you want to talk responsibility, lets repeal those, let religious institutions exempt contraceptives, and have government use that revenue to provide women in those institutions contraceptive coverage. I'm sure nobody backing the existing contraceptive law would mind.
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On March 03 2012 05:14 Fealthas wrote:
I don't think a child should be killed because a woman can't keep her pants on.
I hope that abortion gets some serious regulations. Employers should be able to deny because its their company, you don't have to work there.
User was warned for this post
ugh the problem with religious logic is that if god wanted the baby to be born why would he also allow humans to create such a method to NOT allow it to be born?
broken logic and as a human the only REAL answer is that we cant have an answer and to just let people do whatever they want. i dont get why other people are allowed to enforce such ideals on others. it really makes no sense and goes against the people who condemn said activitys logic making them hypocrits.
sickening how politics are about religion when there was separation of church and state for a reason
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On March 03 2012 23:58 SerpentFlame wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. Catholic institutions are already tax-exempted and subjected to hundreds of other legal breaks that non-religious organizations don't have. If you want to talk responsibility, lets repeal those, let religious institutions exempt contraceptives, and have government use that revenue to provide women in those institutions contraceptive coverage. I'm sure nobody backing the existing contraceptive law would mind.
They have existing unrelated benefits so should should not get this one? Doesn't make much sense to me, I have to admit.
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On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. More edits: 1) Choose another University. 2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University 3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2. Seems eminently fair.
It really isnt fair though. Why should you have to choose between a high quality degree or job because you need medication? There are so many religiously affiliated colleges/universities/ hospitals etc that its somewhat absurd to say you should just go ahead and cross those off your list of employers or schools for medical reasons.
Edit: And I think the Catholic Church needs to change their stance on this topic anyways. It goes against the actual practice of most Catholics- they use birth control. Institutions need to adapt to the current social contexts and not what was said by a group of males decades ago. There is nothing in the Bible about birth control, which has existed in many forms since the beginning of human culture. This isnt a new phenomenon, we just finally now have some that actually work and some that can be used for many other medicinal reasons.
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On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it?
TL is most comprised of conservative males.
The general stance shouldn't surprise you.
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On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. More edits: 1) Choose another University. 2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University 3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2. Seems eminently fair.
A+
Businesses have a right to run themselves in whatever way they want within the constitution. I think this is well within constitutional protections.
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On March 04 2012 00:00 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:58 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. Catholic institutions are already tax-exempted and subjected to hundreds of other legal breaks that non-religious organizations don't have. If you want to talk responsibility, lets repeal those, let religious institutions exempt contraceptives, and have government use that revenue to provide women in those institutions contraceptive coverage. I'm sure nobody backing the existing contraceptive law would mind. They have existing unrelated benefits so should should not get this one? Doesn't make much sense to me, I have to admit.
The reason religious institutions get tax breaks is because they provide a public good. If they're going to not perform some public service that other institutions do, then deduct from their tax break that rewardes them from providing public services. It's not that difficult.
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On March 04 2012 00:06 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. More edits: 1) Choose another University. 2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University 3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2. Seems eminently fair. A+ Businesses have a right to run themselves in whatever way they want within the constitution. I think this is well within constitutional protections.
So they can fire people for being homosexual or atheists or whatever else they dont morally agree with? That seems like a poor business model to me.
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On March 03 2012 23:52 SerpentFlame wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:41 Aterons_toss wrote:
Also... isn't there a law in the US that if the child is born the father has to pay some kind of compensation to the mother until he reaches maturity ? ( there was even a thread about this a few months ago i believe ) So what I gather from reading articles, and from a friend of mine with a deadbeat dad, that compensation is not nearly enough to adequately raise a child, and it's difficult for poor women to pursue legal action on the matter. I guess I brought up the point as more of a theoretical question on how it would change the debate.
There are already cases of women getting pregnant on purpose to be able to raise a child with whoever they want and "steal" money from the guy which is the father since he did not want the kid.
A women is able to abort if all contraception fail a man is not and if the compensation would be higher/easier to get it would get "exploited" way to much.
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On March 04 2012 00:07 SerpentFlame wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:00 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:58 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. Catholic institutions are already tax-exempted and subjected to hundreds of other legal breaks that non-religious organizations don't have. If you want to talk responsibility, lets repeal those, let religious institutions exempt contraceptives, and have government use that revenue to provide women in those institutions contraceptive coverage. I'm sure nobody backing the existing contraceptive law would mind. They have existing unrelated benefits so should should not get this one? Doesn't make much sense to me, I have to admit. I'm never said they shouldn't get religious exemption. The reason religious institutions get tax breaks is because they provide a public good. If they're going to not perform some public service that other institutions do, then deduct from their tax break that rewardes them from providing public services. It's not that difficult.
But your definition of public good is providing contraception? You have to understand that's a thin bridge to walk. It's not like they stop being positive institutions because they don't do this one thing you'd like them to do.
I mean it almost seems like you're turning this argument into railing against religion and their privileged status in America.
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On March 04 2012 00:10 Aterons_toss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:52 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 Aterons_toss wrote:
Also... isn't there a law in the US that if the child is born the father has to pay some kind of compensation to the mother until he reaches maturity ? ( there was even a thread about this a few months ago i believe ) So what I gather from reading articles, and from a friend of mine with a deadbeat dad, that compensation is not nearly enough to adequately raise a child, and it's difficult for poor women to pursue legal action on the matter. I guess I brought up the point as more of a theoretical question on how it would change the debate. There are already cases of women getting pregnant on purpose to be able to raise a child with whoever they want and "steal" money from the guy which is the father since he did not want the kid. A women is able to abort if all contraception fail a man is not and if the compensation would be higher/easier to get it would get "exploited" way to much.
Wow yeah, Im sure this doesnt happen often enough to even bother bringing up. Its pretty offensive actually. How can she get pregnant on purpose without the guy realizing it? He is very much part of the act
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On March 04 2012 00:15 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:07 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 04 2012 00:00 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:58 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. Catholic institutions are already tax-exempted and subjected to hundreds of other legal breaks that non-religious organizations don't have. If you want to talk responsibility, lets repeal those, let religious institutions exempt contraceptives, and have government use that revenue to provide women in those institutions contraceptive coverage. I'm sure nobody backing the existing contraceptive law would mind. They have existing unrelated benefits so should should not get this one? Doesn't make much sense to me, I have to admit. I'm never said they shouldn't get religious exemption. The reason religious institutions get tax breaks is because they provide a public good. If they're going to not perform some public service that other institutions do, then deduct from their tax break that rewardes them from providing public services. It's not that difficult. But your definition of public good is providing contraception? You have to understand that's a thin bridge to walk. It's not like they stop being positive institutions because they don't do this one thing you'd like them to do. I mean it almost seems like you're turning this argument railing against religion and their privileged status in America.
Um, no. You deduct as much from their exemption as they are saving from not providing contraception. Its not an all or nothing debate. If they're not going to do something other businesses have to, then they should pay for the money they save. That's basic responsibility.
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On March 04 2012 00:09 aminoashley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:06 Bigtony wrote:On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. More edits: 1) Choose another University. 2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University 3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2. Seems eminently fair. A+ Businesses have a right to run themselves in whatever way they want within the constitution. I think this is well within constitutional protections. So they can fire people for being homosexual or atheists or whatever else they dont morally agree with? That seems like a poor business model to me.
The only thing that determines if something is a good business model or not is if it is making a lot of money, long term.
It doesn't matter, from the business prespective, what are the means, only the goal.
On March 04 2012 00:16 aminoashley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:10 Aterons_toss wrote:On March 03 2012 23:52 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 Aterons_toss wrote:
Also... isn't there a law in the US that if the child is born the father has to pay some kind of compensation to the mother until he reaches maturity ? ( there was even a thread about this a few months ago i believe ) So what I gather from reading articles, and from a friend of mine with a deadbeat dad, that compensation is not nearly enough to adequately raise a child, and it's difficult for poor women to pursue legal action on the matter. I guess I brought up the point as more of a theoretical question on how it would change the debate. There are already cases of women getting pregnant on purpose to be able to raise a child with whoever they want and "steal" money from the guy which is the father since he did not want the kid. A women is able to abort if all contraception fail a man is not and if the compensation would be higher/easier to get it would get "exploited" way to much. Wow yeah, Im sure this doesnt happen often enough to even bother bringing up. Its pretty offensive actually. How can she get pregnant on purpose without the guy realizing it? He is very much part of the act
"Honey... i'm pregnant!"
"But... how? you said you took the pill..."
"Yeah... guess I forgot"
"Well... you're going to abort the baby, right?"
"No... I guess i'm going to keep it, I like the idea of being a mother"
And then, the guy is legally obliged to pay for the baby.
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On March 04 2012 00:17 RageBot wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 00:09 aminoashley wrote:On March 04 2012 00:06 Bigtony wrote:On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:48 SerpentFlame wrote:On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012. I don't think the bill will pass, it's interesting reading the views from outside the country though. I don't understand why everyone cares so much was goes on in the US. Edit: I just have to go a bit more in depth cause I think I skipped over your main point. We have birth control. The point here is the mandated coverage for religious objectors, which everyone seems to just skip over and point WE LIKE BIRTH CONTROL. Hey, nothing wrong with birth control. The problem is that our system is set up so that almost everyone gets insured through their employer. Exempting religious organizations from having to make contraceptives available makes birth control a good deal harder to access for women at a Catholic university or similar institution. Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever. That doesn't comport in my head. Choose another University. There's no personal responsibility in this country. More edits: 1) Choose another University. 2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University 3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2. Seems eminently fair. A+ Businesses have a right to run themselves in whatever way they want within the constitution. I think this is well within constitutional protections. So they can fire people for being homosexual or atheists or whatever else they dont morally agree with? That seems like a poor business model to me. The only thing that determines if something is a good business model or not is if it is making a lot of money, long term. It doesn't matter, from the business prespective, what are the means, only the goal.
And you think people are going to support a business- buying their goods etc- if they are openly discriminating against people. I Dont think so
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On March 03 2012 23:41 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 23:03 Haemonculus wrote:On March 03 2012 20:49 SF-Fork wrote:
First of all I would like to point out that reading this thread diagonally makes me think that somehow woman is the only sex responsible of birth control. Are we serious?
Thank you. It also seems we're entirely to blame for the decision to have sex in the first place, zzzzz... Keep in mind that women aren't the only ones that benefit from this policy. These are your girlfriends, wives, potential-hook-ups-at-a-bar, etc. Giving them affordable control over their own reproductive cycles is a great thing for everyone. I know just about everyone on this forum is young and male, but control over when you get pregnant is *crucial* to women's autonomy. Women's lives were quite different when one unwanted or unplanned pregnancy can completely throw your life off the tracks. The views on sex in this thread are astounding me. What year is it? Come on. Women are overwhelmingly the deciding party in sex, precisely because it's 2012.
Just because you will fuck anything with two legs if given the chance does not mean that women are the deciding party. Just that you have lower standards then they do.
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On March 03 2012 23:52 SimDawg wrote:
Well you say that with a straight face. You're at a Catholic University. You're in a situation where you need birth control. And you feel the Catholic University should be forced against it's beliefs to provide that for you/whoever.
No, it's asking for the insurance company to provide it.
1) Choose another University.
There are enough barriers between students and the universities they wish to attend. To create another would be entirely needless.
2) Prepare yourself better so you don't need contraception while on a Catholic University
What are you talking about? Prepare yourself to not get ovarian cysts?
3) Pay for it yourself if you screw up 1 and 2.
If it were that simple this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. Contraception can cost a significant amount of money and many wouldn't be able to afford it.
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EPT
