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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On August 27 2018 03:58 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, how do I push the view that we should talk about mass shootings less in a way that isn't, in itself, contributing to the problem of talking about mass shootings?
I don't think we should talk about it less. I understand and even agree to the idea of not giving these people more attention, yet if we start talking less about these it then they are also going to become less important. They should be at the forefront of everyone's minds until people start voting in politicians with a resemblance of humanity in them.
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Bisutopia19366 Posts
For anyone one who knows I live in Jacksonville, Fl, I am safe. Scary times for the people at GLHF bar right now.
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China10252 Posts
From that twitch video, one of the players had a red laser dot over his torso area right before the shots started or am I just seeing things?
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You're not seeing things.
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Yea, you're not seeing things. :\
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On August 27 2018 05:07 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2018 03:58 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, how do I push the view that we should talk about mass shootings less in a way that isn't, in itself, contributing to the problem of talking about mass shootings? I don't think we should talk about it less. I understand and even agree to the idea of not giving these people more attention, yet if we start talking less about these it then they are also going to become less important. They should be at the forefront of everyone's minds until people start voting in politicians with a resemblance of humanity in them.
Do you understand that the nature of the objection is that talking about these things causes them to become more common? and that if they were not splashed all over the news and everywhere else all the time, they might become less common as a result?
on another note, What do you make of the objection that the focus on these shootings is a distortion of the problem, and focuses too much on these instances while ignoring/downplaying all the other murders that happen? (i.e. the note that while you're discussing this shooting/murders, the other 40 murders that happened today in the US aren't getting the same kind of attention or effort put into them; are those other 40 murders at the forefront of your mind? what about the 160 murdered in brazil today?)
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I think there's an important point in understanding why these mass shootings of innocent people have a few things besides them using a gun in common.
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Casual racism disguised as concern. It never fails
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yeah that's pretty obvious
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Can anyone fucking enlighten me how its even possible to bring a gun to a competition.
No security checks? This is like a first-class lawsuit on organizers and everyone responsible right here!
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On August 27 2018 06:05 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote:Casual racism disguised as concern. It never fails
It's all we know about the shooter, and it's a common thread in most of the mass shootings of innocent people at public places we've seen recently. I don't know why you would perceive that as racism?
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United States44060 Posts
On August 27 2018 06:13 ForTehDarkseid wrote:
Can anyone fucking enlighten me how its even possible to bring a gun to a competition.
No security checks? This is like a first-class lawsuit on organizers and everyone responsible right here!
Because guns are legal in the US and surrounding everywhere with security checks is an incredibly bad and inefficient way of keeping guns from getting places. Instead of searching every person every time they enter every public place to check if they have a gun it'd be much easier to decide either
A) they're allowed to have guns in all places
B) they're allowed to have guns in no places
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let's separate speculation and misinformation from fact in the jacksonsville shooting...
here is the official police source.
https://twitter.com/JSOPIO
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On August 27 2018 06:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote:let's separate speculation and misinformation from fact in the jacksonsville shooting... here is the official police source. https://twitter.com/JSOPIO
I'm not sure how their twitter feed does any of that?
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It’s not like police ever get facts wrong or anything.
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On August 27 2018 05:49 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2018 05:07 Excludos wrote:On August 27 2018 03:58 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, how do I push the view that we should talk about mass shootings less in a way that isn't, in itself, contributing to the problem of talking about mass shootings? I don't think we should talk about it less. I understand and even agree to the idea of not giving these people more attention, yet if we start talking less about these it then they are also going to become less important. They should be at the forefront of everyone's minds until people start voting in politicians with a resemblance of humanity in them. Do you understand that the nature of the objection is that talking about these things causes them to become more common? and that if they were not splashed all over the news and everywhere else all the time, they might become less common as a result? on another note, What do you make of the objection that the focus on these shootings is a distortion of the problem, and focuses too much on these instances while ignoring/downplaying all the other murders that happen? (i.e. the note that while you're discussing this shooting/murders, the other 40 murders that happened today in the US aren't getting the same kind of attention or effort put into them; are those other 40 murders at the forefront of your mind? what about the 160 murdered in brazil today?)
You just answered your own question. You're telling me we should talk less about it because it will become more common, then asks why we aren't talking about all the other murders which happened today (of which there are a lot).
Do you know what makes these things more common? Doing nothing. Ignoring that they happen and continue with your lives while politicians implement zero new policies because there's not enough pressure from society compared to the money they rake in by not doing it.
Again I will emphasize that while I agree coverage almost guarantees copycats, we should not and can not downplay this in any way shape or form if you want it to stop altogheter! You want it to stop? Not covering it isn't going to do that, fixing your broken gun laws however might. And unfortunately you can not have it both ways; not covering it and simultaneously expecting anyone to care enough for anything to change.
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Mass shooting of innocent people aren't the same issue as "all the other murders" banding them together doesn't help any of the two issues.
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Can anyone who used to or still does frequent gaming tournaments in the US describe how do security measures at those events look like? I'm guessing they're minimal at smaller tournaments, I'm mostly curious about bigger titles.
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On August 27 2018 07:16 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2018 05:49 zlefin wrote:On August 27 2018 05:07 Excludos wrote:On August 27 2018 03:58 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, how do I push the view that we should talk about mass shootings less in a way that isn't, in itself, contributing to the problem of talking about mass shootings? I don't think we should talk about it less. I understand and even agree to the idea of not giving these people more attention, yet if we start talking less about these it then they are also going to become less important. They should be at the forefront of everyone's minds until people start voting in politicians with a resemblance of humanity in them. Do you understand that the nature of the objection is that talking about these things causes them to become more common? and that if they were not splashed all over the news and everywhere else all the time, they might become less common as a result? on another note, What do you make of the objection that the focus on these shootings is a distortion of the problem, and focuses too much on these instances while ignoring/downplaying all the other murders that happen? (i.e. the note that while you're discussing this shooting/murders, the other 40 murders that happened today in the US aren't getting the same kind of attention or effort put into them; are those other 40 murders at the forefront of your mind? what about the 160 murdered in brazil today?) You just answered your own question. You're telling me we should talk less about it because it will become more common, then asks why we aren't talking about all the other murders which happened today (of which there are a lot). Do you know what makes these things more common? Doing nothing. Ignoring that they happen and continue with your lives while politicians implement zero new policies because there's not enough pressure from society compared to the money they rake in by not doing it. Again I will emphasize that while I agree coverage almost guarantees copycats, we should not and can not downplay this in any way shape or form if you want it to stop altogheter! You want it to stop? Not covering it isn't going to do that, fixing your broken gun laws however might. And unfortunately you can not have it both ways; not covering it and simultaneously expecting anyone to care enough for anything to change.
no, I explicitly did not answer my own question; and it's VERY rude of you to misrepresent my argument like that, by asserting it is something other than what it is.
The points I made are separate, and intentionally so, I separated them by paragraph, and with a remark to note the separation. I asked you to respond to them separately, and you instead respond by lumping them together. And you very pointedly did NOT answer the question posed in the second paragraph. Please answer it if you intend to discuss in good faith.
By your own admission, you are intentionally supporting killing people so that the problem gets addressed (and yes, you are literally advocating that, since you say we should not downplay it, even if doing so would reduce copycat killings); Nor do you have any reasonable basis for the conclusion that ignoring it (and by ignoring we mean not talking about it so much) wouldn't have any effect in reducing the problem.
It's most certainly possible to have it both ways: to have a social understanding that we should talk about it LESS, while still doing something about it, quietly and behind the scenes.
@alpino you missed the point of the objection. that objection has to do with the unreasonable amount of focus put on these mass shootings, while far less attention is given to a far greater source of murders. The amount of attention things gets affects how they're responded to and how funding is allocated sinc eit affects popular perception. This can mean alot more funding is put into stopping mass shootings (wherein it does some good), when if that money were simply put into more general homicide prevention, it'd end up saving considerably more lives.
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On August 27 2018 07:16 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2018 05:49 zlefin wrote:On August 27 2018 05:07 Excludos wrote:On August 27 2018 03:58 zlefin wrote:
Hmmm, how do I push the view that we should talk about mass shootings less in a way that isn't, in itself, contributing to the problem of talking about mass shootings? I don't think we should talk about it less. I understand and even agree to the idea of not giving these people more attention, yet if we start talking less about these it then they are also going to become less important. They should be at the forefront of everyone's minds until people start voting in politicians with a resemblance of humanity in them. Do you understand that the nature of the objection is that talking about these things causes them to become more common? and that if they were not splashed all over the news and everywhere else all the time, they might become less common as a result? on another note, What do you make of the objection that the focus on these shootings is a distortion of the problem, and focuses too much on these instances while ignoring/downplaying all the other murders that happen? (i.e. the note that while you're discussing this shooting/murders, the other 40 murders that happened today in the US aren't getting the same kind of attention or effort put into them; are those other 40 murders at the forefront of your mind? what about the 160 murdered in brazil today?) You just answered your own question. You're telling me we should talk less about it because it will become more common, then asks why we aren't talking about all the other murders which happened today (of which there are a lot). Do you know what makes these things more common? Doing nothing. Ignoring that they happen and continue with your lives while politicians implement zero new policies because there's not enough pressure from society compared to the money they rake in by not doing it. Again I will emphasize that while I agree coverage almost guarantees copycats, we should not and can not downplay this in any way shape or form if you want it to stop altogheter! You want it to stop? Not covering it isn't going to do that, fixing your broken gun laws however might. And unfortunately you can not have it both ways; not covering it and simultaneously expecting anyone to care enough for anything to change.
Do you not think its more about the quality of the coverage instead of the decision to cover it at all? Ubiquitous profiles of the mass murderers that reminds any psycho of the easiest way to get in the news; flashy, almost dramatized news segments that are as visceral as possible; constant 24 hour coverage etc.
This stuff is damaging for no other reason than to get ratings. You can cover the story without over-sensationalizing it.
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