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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12490 Posts
And again, it's important to stress that the country isn't divided on things like universal background checks. I'll run the risk of saying it again, this vision where the poor politician is trying to do things, but can't because the public is too dumb and he's bound to the will of the electorate, is quite naive. Also, quite elitist too. Not a lot of redeeming qualities in that view imo. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 04 2018 04:14 zlefin wrote: just because you don't hear of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. you shouldn't assume things like that. there's still a few illegal guns around; as well as a few misused legal ones. looking at https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/homicide indicates 26 shooting deaths that year; with similar or slightly higher numbers in other years. it's likely that germany has a similar number a year as well. and you shouldn't complain about people's reading comprehension when they had a very understandable and reasonable viewpoint. Huh. You know that actually surprised me. I thought there was more than that, due at least to London's underworld scene (there's reps of several organised crime families in London as well as its own native criminals). Of course, the British stereotype isn't that someone will come around and kill you, it's that they'll come round and break your legs, so maybe our underworld prefers extreme violence over killing where they can. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
___ On June 04 2018 07:26 ShambhalaWar wrote: Can't we all just agree what's happening in America is crazy and stupid as all hell? It really sounds like everyone agrees with that. + Show Spoiler + On June 04 2018 04:14 zlefin wrote: just because you don't hear of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. you shouldn't assume things like that. there's still a few illegal guns around; as well as a few misused legal ones. looking at https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/homicide indicates 26 shooting deaths that year; with similar or slightly higher numbers in other years. it's likely that germany has a similar number a year as well. and you shouldn't complain about people's reading comprehension when they had a very understandable and reasonable viewpoint. It sounds like around 26 shootings per year is a wet dream for my country... A fantasy, a unicorn ffs. We get half that in one school shooting here, and the difference between our country and UK? Not the amount of mentally ill people, not the amount of mental health counseling available... not access to knives or cars... *It's the gun laws. Well, if you have been following the past 50 pages or so, I think you'll find several of your countrymen happily asserting that everything is fine. Gun laws should not be changed on either the basis that they need the guns, to that some gun legislation introduced would lead to effective gun legislation. Anyways, I think you may find that general mental health is vastly better in the UK. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/27/knives-sharp-filing-solution-soaring-violent-crime-judge-says/ | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On June 04 2018 22:36 ahswtini wrote: it's fine, the british response to the recent stabbings epidemic is to call for kitchen knives to have their points filed down https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/27/knives-sharp-filing-solution-soaring-violent-crime-judge-says/ Not to minimise the nastiness, but I find it delightful that we're referring to 8 deaths in one week as an 'epidemic'. Just hope it doesn't keep increasing in frequency. Then we might have the equivalent of one whole American shooting's worth! 62 whole deaths to knives this year. It's a bad year, for sure. one of the worst on record. A national shame. | ||
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
A SWAT team was dispatched to a home that local media reports matches the address of Parkland school shooting survivor and gun control activist David Hogg's family Tuesday morning. time.comThe team arrived at the home after authorities received a report of a barricaded subject inside the house, an official with the Broward County Sherff’s Office told TIME. The report turned out to be baseless, the official said, but the SWAT team cleared out the home as a precautionary measure. Local media helicopters were over the home during the incident. Hogg was not home at the time, as he is in Washington, D.C. to accept the Robert F. Kennedy human rights award. The incident appears to be an example of "swatting," in which a false report of an emergency is made with the intention of getting a SWAT team dispatched to a location where no such emergency exists. Swatting incidents, which can result in tense and dangerous standoffs between police and confused residents, have led to at least one death, leading some to call for laws that would explicitly ban the practice. Posted here because I'm pretty sure this is connected to his pro-regulation activism. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
I’ll agree that SWAT tactics need a change to reduce the incidents of innocent people killers (and/or their pets). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
And to be clear for those who are not aware, this isn't a prank. This more akin to attempted murder. | ||
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Kyadytim
United States886 Posts
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Dan HH
Romania9241 Posts
On June 06 2018 03:08 Plansix wrote: And to be clear for those who are not aware, this isn't a prank. This more akin to attempted murder. Police issues aside, there seem to be more and more kids raised by Twitch chat that don't know the difference between those two. This guy swatted someone last winter which led to a death and is awaiting sentencing: + Show Spoiler + "I didnt do shit" is the key phrase there, there's a complete disconnect in his mind between internet 'lulz' and real life culpability. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
https://www.cnet.com/news/three-men-indicted-in-call-of-duty-linked-swatting-death/ They were charged with murder, not voluntary manslaughter. I don't think these crimes would qualify, since the outcome of these Swattings going sideways is well known to be death or great bodily harm. Edit: I'll leave my fuck up here, but I was corrected. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 06 2018 06:58 Plansix wrote: That is not how the charges have been brought in these cases. https://www.cnet.com/news/three-men-indicted-in-call-of-duty-linked-swatting-death/ They were charged with murder, not voluntary manslaughter. I don't think these crimes would qualify, since the outcome of these Swattings going sideways is well known to be death or great bodily harm. Barriss is charged with manslaughter for the alleged "swatting" call -- when someone makes a false report to police and describes kidnapping, murder or other violent crimes, in the hopes of having a SWAT team dispatched. LAPD officers arrested Barriss last December. In addition to manslaughter, Barriss has also been charged with cyberstalking, wire fraud, conspiracy and interstate threats. Viner is charged with conspiracy for asking for the swat call, while Gaskill is charged with wire fraud for giving a false address that led to Finch's death. The two teens are also charged with obstruction of justice for deleting their messages .From your link... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 06 2018 07:04 Danglars wrote: . From your link... I stand corrected and look like a damn fool. The life sentence must be associated with another charge. However, swatting someone is not just a manslaugther charge, there are numerous crimes associated with it. I would also point out that it can be murder if the person making hoax call is doing so with teh intent to get someone killed. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24213 Posts
Swatting innocent people is obviously fubar, but police have to be pretty shitty at their jobs to not be able to tell the difference between a hostage situation and someone playing video games. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 06 2018 07:19 GreenHorizons wrote: I bet if police officers living out of their own jurisdiction started getting swatted on the regular they'd find protocols that didn't so reliably end up in the non-criminal of the situation getting killed. Swatting innocent people is obviously fubar, but police have to be pretty shitty at their jobs to not be able to tell the difference between a hostage situation and someone playing video games. This part is not talked about enough. The fact that they clear entire houses on hair triggers rather than going "Um...I think we got played folks" and slowing their roll shows they might need more training. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9241 Posts
On June 06 2018 06:37 Danglars wrote: Attempted voluntary manslaughter can go up to 5.5 years where I’m at. That guys tweets on death sentence are overreacting. He's not overreacting, he used death sentence and suicide solely for the purpose of his false dichotomy. I'll translate his argument to normal speak: he's saying the victim's death is either completely his fault (this is the part where he suggests his own death) or not his fault at all (this is the part where he suggests that him "serving ANY time" would not justify it), then brings up the cop to say it's not the first option. In other words, he's denying that the concept of manslaughter enters this equation because he wasn't there and "didn't do shit'. This is what I was trying to point out in that post, how responsible do these teens consider themselves for the result of their prank call? Not a whole lot, if at all. E: Just noticed the guy in question is 28, did not expect that based on how and what he writes. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On June 06 2018 07:26 Plansix wrote: This part is not talked about enough. The fact that they clear entire houses on hair triggers rather than going "Um...I think we got played folks" and slowing their roll shows they might need more training. Not nearly enough! I'll never understand how America can simultaneously hold police officers in such high respect while also expecting so very little from what is considered a highly trained profession. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8277 Posts
Swatting incidents, which can result in tense and dangerous standoffs between police and confused residents, have led to at least one death, leading some to call for laws that would explicitly ban the practice. It's already illegal.. Do they want to double ban it..? That said, having a swat team bust down your door with a no-knock warrant is not common practice anywhere else, why is it in the US? Shouldn't they at least try to gather some more intel about the situation before running in guns blazing? A phone call for instance to the house in question seems like a good start. | ||
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