EPTOn November 06 2017 06:29 Nebuchad wrote:
Yeah, a lot of truth to that. And guns are only a portion of the evils sustained by lobbying.
If you're seeing this topic then another mass shooting hap…
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
|
Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
Yeah, a lot of truth to that. And guns are only a portion of the evils sustained by lobbying. | ||
|
Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On November 06 2017 06:29 Nebuchad wrote: The 10% figure is way off. | ||
|
Incognoto
France10239 Posts
| ||
|
Nebuchad
Switzerland12391 Posts
There are specific gun regulations that have 90% support, but it won't be the ones that stop something like this. Banning assault weapons was at 80% in october with 70% republican support, so there's that. | ||
micronesia
United States24754 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States45297 Posts
On November 06 2017 06:04 Faruko wrote: https://www.google.cl/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html At least 27 killed Seeing as how people were literally praying when they were being mowed down, I think it's safe to say that "thoughts and prayers" isn't enough to stop mass shootings in the United States. | ||
|
mortyFromRickAndMort
85 Posts
On November 06 2017 12:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Seeing as how people were literally praying when they were being mowed down, I think it's safe to say that "thoughts and prayers" isn't enough to stop mass shootings in the United States. Top kek. Thoughts and prayers, a. k. a. the Republican Forcefield. Is this year an outlier, or is it always this bad? Also, these mass shootings are less than 5% of gun deaths in the USA, so assault weapons bans won't really do much to address the larger issue of gun violence. Most gun deaths are from pistols. | ||
|
DarkPlasmaBall
United States45297 Posts
On November 06 2017 19:13 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: Top kek. Thoughts and prayers, a. k. a. the Republican Forcefield. Is this year an outlier, or is it always this bad? Also, these mass shootings are less than 5% of gun deaths in the USA, so assault weapons bans won't really do much to address the larger issue of gun violence. Most gun deaths are from pistols. I believe that from year to year, the number of gun-related deaths in the USA has been relatively stable or even slightly decreasing, although over the past few years, we've pretty much had an average of one mass shooting per day, defining mass shooting as four or more casualties in a single incident. You're right, though, that mass shootings don't account for a significant percentage of the 30,000+ annual gun deaths in America or the 70,000+ annual gun injuries. And I think about 1/3 of those statistics come from suicide, so the entire issue is extremely complex. Until we seriously start to understand depression and mental illness, deal with poverty, actually address racial and prejudicial issues, and have common sense gun laws in this country, the problem isn't going to be magically fixed. Americans have become desensitized to the fact that about 80-100 people die each day in this country from a gun for a ton of different reasons. | ||
|
mortyFromRickAndMort
85 Posts
Assault weapons ban? Sure, that sounds entirely reasonable, but that targets far less than five percent of gun deaths. Can anyone explain the undue influence the NRA has in this to an outsider? According to WSJ, the NRA had a total revenue of 350kk, which isn't that much money. However much of that they spend on lobbying, a single liberal Hollywood or Silicon Valley billionaire could cancel that out. They only have 5kk members, which is less than 2% of Americans, so where does their political clout come from? | ||
|
Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
On November 06 2017 23:13 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: These stats make it very difficult for me take Democrats seriously when they get up on their high horse re: gunreform. Assault weapons ban? Sure, that sounds entirely reasonable, but that targets far less than five percent of gun deaths. Can anyone explain the undue influence the NRA has in this to an outsider? According to WSJ, the NRA had a total revenue of 350kk, which isn't that much money. However much of that they spend on lobbying, a single liberal Hollywood or Silicon Valley billionaire could cancel that out. They only have 5kk members, which is less than 2% of Americans, so where does their political clout come from? I also am curious about this | ||
|
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On November 06 2017 23:13 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: These stats make it very difficult for me take Democrats seriously when they get up on their high horse re: gunreform. Assault weapons ban? Sure, that sounds entirely reasonable, but that targets far less than five percent of gun deaths. Can anyone explain the undue influence the NRA has in this to an outsider? According to WSJ, the NRA had a total revenue of 350kk, which isn't that much money. However much of that they spend on lobbying, a single liberal Hollywood or Silicon Valley billionaire could cancel that out. They only have 5kk members, which is less than 2% of Americans, so where does their political clout come from? there is the oft-cited "fact" that the NRA funded by the gun lobby, and if it weren't for these evil selfish manufacturers of death machines, the NRA wouldn't have the influence it has. which is absolutely nonsense. i think this lie can be traced back to the "Blood Money" report put out by the Violence Policy Center, which isn't exactly a neutral unbiased organisation. one only has to look closely at some of the big claims made in the report to realise how badly they misrepresent the figures. it's the closest you can get to lying, without actually lying. and yes, billionaire elites who live in their gated communities like Bloomberg have pledged millions for gun control. just how democratic is that? | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15737 Posts
On November 06 2017 11:42 Plansix wrote: It's hard to create laws to ban specific types of fire arms since the gun manufacturers will redesign the gun to avoid the restrictions. There needs to be some way to control rate of fire in some kind of digital way. If time since last fire < (minimum time between shots), do not fire sort of deal. Would basically put guns on par with knives for these kinds of situations. | ||
|
IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On November 06 2017 23:13 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: These stats make it very difficult for me take Democrats seriously when they get up on their high horse re: gunreform. Assault weapons ban? Sure, that sounds entirely reasonable, but that targets far less than five percent of gun deaths. Can anyone explain the undue influence the NRA has in this to an outsider? According to WSJ, the NRA had a total revenue of 350kk, which isn't that much money. However much of that they spend on lobbying, a single liberal Hollywood or Silicon Valley billionaire could cancel that out. They only have 5kk members, which is less than 2% of Americans, so where does their political clout come from? So from https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=d000000082 it seems the NRA spent 3.89 million this year on lobbying. While 5 million people might not be that great in % of Americans, it is a large voting block. If you could get 80 + % of that number to vote how you want you get a VERY politically powerful org. Now I am not sure what % of the members vote and how they vote so take this part with a grain of salt. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
For starters, the shooter managed to pass a background check and buy his gun from a sporting store despite a bad conduct discharge from the military for domestic violence. Somebody fucked up here. It also appears that a good guy with a gun took down the shooter halfway through the mass shooting. I think it's a safe bet that the good guy also used an AR-15 variant; it's the most common rifle in America. The usual suspects are arguing that the count would have been zero given "commonsense" legislation. The other usual suspects are claiming that the shooting would have been closer to Brevik or the Bataclan otherwise. If the Las Vegas shooting changed nothing, this isn't going to change anything either. On November 07 2017 00:12 Mohdoo wrote: There needs to be some way to control rate of fire in some kind of digital way. If time since last fire < (minimum time between shots), do not fire sort of deal. Would basically put guns on par with knives for these kinds of situations. Repeating firearms were invented over a hundred years before the transistor. Limiting guns through computer science would be extremely difficult. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On November 07 2017 00:28 IyMoon wrote: While 5 million people might not be that great in % of Americans, it is a large voting block. If you could get 80 + % of that number to vote how you want you get a VERY politically powerful org. Now I am not sure what % of the members vote and how they vote so take this part with a grain of salt. It should be noted that the majority of Americans (~55%) support the NRA*. Moreover, I think it's safe to say that people who do NOT support the NRA tend to be disproportionately clustered into large cities in safely Democratic states. To put it another way, swing states really, really like the NRA. Political representatives behave accordingly. *More to the point, the vast majority of gun owners support the NRA and vote accordingly. It's really hard to find a gun range or gun store in America that doesn't advertise its NRA credentials. In states that require training to obtain a gun license or concealed carry permit, the NRA is the major source of credentialed instructors. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15737 Posts
On November 07 2017 00:30 acker wrote: Repeating firearms were invented over a hundred years before the transistor. Limiting guns through computer science would be extremely difficult. I don't think I understand. Why would it be difficult? There are a million other physical processes that we keep reliant on digital feedback. I'm sure there are lots of creative ways to accomplish this. | ||
|
Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On November 06 2017 23:13 mortyFromRickAndMort wrote: These stats make it very difficult for me take Democrats seriously when they get up on their high horse re: gunreform. Assault weapons ban? Sure, that sounds entirely reasonable, but that targets far less than five percent of gun deaths. Can anyone explain the undue influence the NRA has in this to an outsider? According to WSJ, the NRA had a total revenue of 350kk, which isn't that much money. However much of that they spend on lobbying, a single liberal Hollywood or Silicon Valley billionaire could cancel that out. They only have 5kk members, which is less than 2% of Americans, so where does their political clout come from? It is a combination of things. Basically, they care more. If it were put to a national vote gun control would be increased a fair amount based on public opinion. However, gun control is not a #1 issue for the vast majority of people- except for those against it. So when a gun control bill is up a congress person gets like 99-1 phone calls against legislation. This is maintained by the NRA having a "just say no" stance. No matter what, they're against gun control. This makes it so they don't have to engage in tough arguments about where to draw the line, and means their members can lobby/phone senators without needing lots of knowledge about arguments. | ||
|
acker
United States2958 Posts
On November 07 2017 01:18 Mohdoo wrote: I don't think I understand. Why would it be difficult? There are a million other physical processes that we keep reliant on digital feedback. I'm sure there are lots of creative ways to accomplish this. People build AR-15s and AK-47s in their garage on a daily basis using hand tools; guns are mechanically simple in a way a "million other physical processes" aren't. Their method of operation is completely independent of electricity, let alone electronics. | ||
|
Mohdoo
United States15737 Posts
On November 07 2017 01:38 acker wrote: People build AR-15s and AK-47s in their garage on a daily basis using hand tools; guns are mechanically simple in a way a "million other physical processes" aren't. Their method of operation is completely independent of electricity, let alone electronics. I guess my assumption is that the % of mass-shooter types who are also able to build their own guns is low? And when you look at where most gun deaths come from, that number gets even lower. | ||
| ||
