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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 09 2013 21:57 SweetNJoshSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 21:41 ninini wrote:On January 05 2013 15:18 Millitron wrote:On January 05 2013 15:13 Destine3 wrote:
i hate to see people use the phrase "ITS IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS!" Cause they KNOW that is like that so the British wouldnt come into our houses and kill us (along with wild bear... -_-) some hundred years ago. It is obvious that times has changed and the laws should flex along with it. Except that's not why it's in the Bill of Rights. It's in the BoR because the founding fathers wanted to the people to always be able to defend themselves from tyranny, both foreign and domestic. "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. " - Thomas Jefferson And you're going to live your life according to the words of a spoony old president? There's some truth in those words, but as a generalization it's not true. You have to put it in the right context. The whole concept of democracy relies on the fact that the ppl can peacefully overthrow the government whenever they want. If you live in a democracy, there is no need whatsoever to be afraid of the government. Does the government fear the ppl today? I think they do atleast here in Sweden, but then our media is much more independent than in USA. Still, I believe that the same is true for USA, just that the american politicians have more faith in projecting their beliefs to the ppl, aka propaganda. But propaganda in itself, although dangerous, doesn't eliminate democracy, and for the most part, it's up to the opposing parties to expose the propaganda. But how well democracy works in a country, depends on to what extent the common ppl uses common sense. The way that americans idolize the "founding fathers" is scary, because it's that exact behaviour that lead to the communistic personality cults, and the islamic theocracies. When ppl don't think for themselves, and just accept what certain "wise ppl" are saying as the truth, you become a slave. Some of you claim that the founding fathers had every possible future scenario in mind, when they formed the ammendments. Prove it! Think of it like this. If the 2nd ammendment didn't exist, then would you have added it today, and for what reason? That's how you should look at it. If you don't criticize old laws, you can't have democracy. The founding fathers don't have all the answers. Look at the world at that time. The height of colonization, and the height of slavery. USA was actually the only country that sent for slaves, (they transported them from Africa to America), while the british and other european powers mainly used domestic slave labour in their colonies. Most of the british blacks are descended from the Caribbeans, from their colonies, while most of the black americans are from Africa, where the white americans never even set their foot on. Spoony old president? Stopped reading right there. Well, actually I read on. Only until "If you live in a democracy there is no need to be afraid of the government". Then I stopped It's amazing how black and white some people in the thread are. Seriously dude, are you like 12 years old or something? Those are the most ridiculous posts Ive read in this thread
Just a tip, but if you don't have anything to add, don't post.
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On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents.
I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo.
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On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo.
Its not irrational at all when they see and hear about it happening around them all the time. The people out in the country don't have the gang problems that the cities do so they don't see the reason for any gun control. same goes for knives. If they had a complete weapon ban they'd start going after knife bans like they do in the uk.
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Dear Hertzy,
I say no To guns, excluding hunting and military uses, but for all intensive purposes, Please make do with a Poll so you can quickly see what choice is more popular.
Thank you for your time,
PROPro.
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United States24569 Posts
On January 10 2013 00:34 PROPrototype wrote:
Dear Hertzy,
I say no To guns, excluding hunting and military uses
How do you propose to make guns available to hunters, but not other people? Will hunters be allowed to target shoot for practice? If not, you'll see lots of deer getting shot in the ass and stuff.
Please make do with a Poll so you can quickly see what choice is more popular. What will this accomplish? I guess the title of the thread is "should people be allowed to own and carry guns" but a poll won't change anyone's mind whereas a detailed thought process, explained, might actually educate someone. Even if everyone in the thread decided no, civilians should not have any access to guns, what exactly should be done about it? In the USA, which has one of the biggest gun problems anywhere, making a new law won't solve our gun problems... it is a complicated issue which requires planning as much as convincing.
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On January 10 2013 00:32 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Its not irrational at all when they see and hear about it happening around them all the time. The people out in the country don't have the gang problems that the cities do so they don't see the reason for any gun control. same goes for knives. If they had a complete weapon ban they'd start going after knife bans like they do in the uk.
It is very irrational to suddenly freak out when someone you already know and trust has a weapon. Its merely that the weapon is there, as though its going to do something on its own. Some people won't even touch it, it just freaks them out so much. Textbook phobia.
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On January 10 2013 00:41 smokeyhoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Its not irrational at all when they see and hear about it happening around them all the time. The people out in the country don't have the gang problems that the cities do so they don't see the reason for any gun control. same goes for knives. If they had a complete weapon ban they'd start going after knife bans like they do in the uk. It is very irrational to suddenly freak out when someone you already know and trust has a weapon. Its merely that the weapon is there, as though its going to do something on its own. Some people won't even touch it, it just freaks them out so much. Textbook phobia.
I'm not saying its a phobia what I'm saying is that its not irrational. They've seen what horrible things these weapons do and they imagine that all weapons like that are the same. An "assault weapons ban" is just a symbolic gesture to these suburbanites that think that it will do anything to calm them down and make them happy. It won't do anything positive for the gun control people and it'll only hurt them when it fails and "assault weapons" become legal again and the NRA is able to make tons of bucks for the gun manufacturers by baiting out the same legislation from lawmakers.
Like I've been thinking about it a lot like everyone else probably and I don't really see how anything positive changes from this. What is the real path forward for gun control advocates?
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On January 10 2013 00:56 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:41 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 10 2013 00:32 Sermokala wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Its not irrational at all when they see and hear about it happening around them all the time. The people out in the country don't have the gang problems that the cities do so they don't see the reason for any gun control. same goes for knives. If they had a complete weapon ban they'd start going after knife bans like they do in the uk. It is very irrational to suddenly freak out when someone you already know and trust has a weapon. Its merely that the weapon is there, as though its going to do something on its own. Some people won't even touch it, it just freaks them out so much. Textbook phobia. I'm not saying its a phobia what I'm saying is that its not irrational. They've seen what horrible things these weapons do and they imagine that all weapons like that are the same. An "assault weapons ban" is just a symbolic gesture to these suburbanites that think that it will do anything to calm them down and make them happy. It won't do anything positive for the gun control people and it'll only hurt them when it fails and "assault weapons" become legal again and the NRA is able to make tons of bucks for the gun manufacturers by baiting out the same legislation from lawmakers. Like I've been thinking about it a lot like everyone else probably and I don't really see how anything positive changes from this. What is the real path forward for gun control advocates?
Do you know what irrational means? Someone afraid to touch a gun may have valid emotional reasons for that fear, it doesn't mean its not irrational.
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On January 10 2013 00:37 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:34 PROPrototype wrote:
Dear Hertzy,
I say no To guns, excluding hunting and military uses How do you propose to make guns available to hunters, but not other people? Will hunters be allowed to target shoot for practice? If not, you'll see lots of deer getting shot in the ass and stuff..
it's like this in France ( and probably in most european countries).
You need to get a licence to buy a weapon and to have no judiciary background.
It means that only people who know how to shoot can get one, then you need an additionnal licence to carry it around ( and still it must be in it's locked container).
Furthermore the hunting habits of hunters are strictly regulated so that it's not a slaughter in the forests.
Doesn't that seem like the smart thing to do?
What's amazing in the US is that people who never tried once to shoot and don't have a clue about any safety rules when holding guns, can buy it nonetheless. (talking about legal stuff, of course people who have no clue about how tu use guns can buy some illegally anywhere )
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On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo.
Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here.
What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful.
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On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful.
Walk around in the wrong hood in the U.S. and you may find yourself in a life or death situation pretty fast. Denmark is just... different from the U.S. It's hard for someone with no concept of a truly shitty neighbourhood where practically everyone is armed or cracked out to fathom the type of situations that can arise in one. Canada has less of a "self-defense" mentality surrounding guns, simply because we have less crime, but I'll tell you, with the amount of wildlife and the popularity of outdoor activities here, I couldn't imagine not being able to legally and responsibly carry around a rifle or a shotgun if I really wanted to enjoy the great white North. The very concept sounds oppressive and totalitarian to me.
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On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful.
That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it?
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On January 10 2013 02:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful. That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it?
To draw an analogy, using a condom to prevent incurable STD's (as opposed to the easily fixed variety) could be called irrational under his logic. Not that many people in America have incurable STD's, and they certainly aren't trying to spread them around, so wearing a condom is irrational and paranoid.
I can't even begin to understand how people consider it crazy to carry a weapon for self defense against the unlikely circumstances. Unlikely and impossible are two different things. We rant about "abstinence only" birth control and sex ed, because it's stupid and irresponsible, but a large portion of the same political demographic then turns around and preaches "abstinence only" gun control.
Are they directly comparable? No. Obviously. But enough parallels can be drawn that it starts to seem like pure extremism isn't the solution.
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On January 10 2013 02:24 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 02:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful. That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it? To draw an analogy, using a condom to prevent incurable STD's (as opposed to the easily fixed variety) could be called irrational under his logic. Not that many people in America have incurable STD's, and they certainly aren't trying to spread them around, so wearing a condom is irrational and paranoid. I can't even begin to understand how people consider it crazy to carry a weapon for self defense against the unlikely circumstances. Unlikely and impossible are two different things. We rant about "abstinence only" birth control and sex ed, because it's stupid and irresponsible, but a large portion of the same political demographic then turns around and preaches "abstinence only" gun control. Are they directly comparable? No. Obviously. But enough parallels can be drawn that it starts to seem like pure extremism isn't the solution.
What if some of the STDs were caused by condoms?
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On January 10 2013 02:30 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 02:24 JingleHell wrote:On January 10 2013 02:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful. That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it? To draw an analogy, using a condom to prevent incurable STD's (as opposed to the easily fixed variety) could be called irrational under his logic. Not that many people in America have incurable STD's, and they certainly aren't trying to spread them around, so wearing a condom is irrational and paranoid. I can't even begin to understand how people consider it crazy to carry a weapon for self defense against the unlikely circumstances. Unlikely and impossible are two different things. We rant about "abstinence only" birth control and sex ed, because it's stupid and irresponsible, but a large portion of the same political demographic then turns around and preaches "abstinence only" gun control. Are they directly comparable? No. Obviously. But enough parallels can be drawn that it starts to seem like pure extremism isn't the solution. What if some of the STDs were caused by condoms?
Well, some people ARE violently allergic to latex, and internal contact with something you're allergic to can be pretty bad. So, does that mean we should ban latex condoms, because they could hurt someone, and you only need to carry one if you're paranoid?
http://www.newyorknymedicalmalpracticeblog.com/2012/07/47-million-jury-verdict-after-latex-allergy-death.shtml
+ Show Spoiler +I was actually hoping this would be brought up to attempt to discredit my analogy.
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lol this has become silly... but what i meant to say is that there is kind of a wierd logic that dictates that you have to carry guns for protection in case someone attacks you with a gun....
I guess its true where guns aren't easily banned. Once again i find myself posting in this thread that i promised not to post in anymore... There's no easy answer here, but everyone should chill their views out a little.
Guns ain't gonna get banned in the USA, but stopping dangerous people having them (including ignorant people who don't know how or when to use them) is just common sense, and arming as many people as possible is a crazy psychopathic thing to do...
edit:
LOL at the spoiler xD
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On January 10 2013 02:37 Jockmcplop wrote:
lol this has become silly... but what i meant to say is that there is kind of a wierd logic that dictates that you have to carry guns for protection in case someone attacks you with a gun....
I guess its true where guns aren't easily banned. Once again i find myself posting in this thread that i promised not to post in anymore... There's no easy answer here, but everyone should chill their views out a little.
Guns ain't gonna get banned in the USA, but stopping dangerous people having them (including ignorant people who don't know how or when to use them) is just common sense, and arming as many people as possible is a crazy psychopathic thing to do...
edit:
LOL at the spoiler xD
I know it seems silly on the surface, but the same logic really can be applied without twisting. I'm actually all for sensible gun control, and I have a 9mm in my closet. I also wear condoms. My problem is that most proposed gun control isn't sensible in the slightest.
Wanting to be safe against a fringe circumstance, and doing so with something that can also be used maliciously (a condom could also be used in a rape, so there's not just the risk of latex allergy), doesn't automatically mean you're paranoid or irrational. The problem is the people who do irresponsible or illegal things, not the people who believe irresponsible or illegal things can happen.
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On January 10 2013 02:24 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 02:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful. That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it? To draw an analogy, using a condom to prevent incurable STD's (as opposed to the easily fixed variety) could be called irrational under his logic. Not that many people in America have incurable STD's, and they certainly aren't trying to spread them around, so wearing a condom is irrational and paranoid. I can't even begin to understand how people consider it crazy to carry a weapon for self defense against the unlikely circumstances. Unlikely and impossible are two different things. We rant about "abstinence only" birth control and sex ed, because it's stupid and irresponsible, but a large portion of the same political demographic then turns around and preaches "abstinence only" gun control. Are they directly comparable? No. Obviously. But enough parallels can be drawn that it starts to seem like pure extremism isn't the solution.
I would much prefer it if you did not try and put words in my mouth. I have not argued for "absolute abstinence" at any point. If this is to be fruitful in any way, that shit needs to stop right now.
Furthermore your analogy is horribly flawed - it fails to recognize any sort of intent for starters - leading you to draw conclusions on flawed premises.
@ Smokeyhood:
I am arguing that instead of choosing the extreme option which introduces an entirely new level of danger (lethality) into the picture of a mugging one should prefer the non-lethal options (tazers, mazes) which also have the added advantage over a gun carried merely for the fearfactor that these could be carried with the intent of actual use. I do not think that is an irrational stance, but then again, I care less about my vallet than I do about peoples lives (and let us not forget that a gun does in no way have 100% accuracy - there is always the risk of hitting an innocent bystander when you decide to take matters into your own hands).
I once again think it is irrational to believe that you are improving the overall safety of the public by adding more guns to the picture, especially when there are non-lethal options out there which work equally well.
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On January 10 2013 02:53 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 02:24 JingleHell wrote:On January 10 2013 02:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful. That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it? To draw an analogy, using a condom to prevent incurable STD's (as opposed to the easily fixed variety) could be called irrational under his logic. Not that many people in America have incurable STD's, and they certainly aren't trying to spread them around, so wearing a condom is irrational and paranoid. I can't even begin to understand how people consider it crazy to carry a weapon for self defense against the unlikely circumstances. Unlikely and impossible are two different things. We rant about "abstinence only" birth control and sex ed, because it's stupid and irresponsible, but a large portion of the same political demographic then turns around and preaches "abstinence only" gun control. Are they directly comparable? No. Obviously. But enough parallels can be drawn that it starts to seem like pure extremism isn't the solution. I would much prefer it if you did not try and put words in my mouth. I have not argued for "absolute abstinence" at any point. If this is to be fruitful in any way, that shit needs to stop right now. Furthermore your analogy is horribly flawed - it fails to recognize any sort of intent for starters - leading you to draw conclusions on flawed premises. @ Smokeyhood: I am arguing that instead of choosing the extreme option which introduces an entirely new level of danger (lethality) into the picture of a mugging one should prefer the non-lethal options (tazers, mazes) which also have the added advantage over a gun carried merely for the fearfactor that these could be carried with the intent of actual use. I do not think that is an irrational stance, but then again, I care less about my vallet than I do about peoples lives (and let us not forget that a gun does in no way have 100% accuracy - there is always the risk of hitting an innocent bystander when you decide to take matters into your own hands). I once again think it is irrational to believe that you are improving the overall safety of the public by adding more guns to the picture, especially when there are non-lethal options out there which work equally well.
Just the fact that you make a strong emotional connection with a group that was clearly not intended to include specific individuals suggests that maybe you do think that way. It's a fairly valid blanket statement, when I make it clear that I don't inherently mean everyone within a group, or any specific individual.
The analogy DOES hold up, I discussed the potential for intent later. A condom can be used to reduce forensic evidence in a rape, which is malicious intent, if a fringe circumstance, along with the possibility of fatal accidents such as a latex allergy. Just like malicious intent and fatal accidents are a minority with firearms in America.
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On January 10 2013 02:58 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 02:53 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 02:24 JingleHell wrote:On January 10 2013 02:01 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 10 2013 01:45 Ghostcom wrote:On January 10 2013 00:25 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 23:46 Velr wrote:On January 09 2013 21:29 smokeyhoodoo wrote:On January 09 2013 21:13 Velr wrote:
"Fun" fact:
After the recent shooting in the US gun sales went up.
After the recent shooting in Switzerland, more people than before gave up their gun ownership.
It's just a diffrent mentality you cowboys got over there ^^. Arguing about it is pointless because for some reason, guns in the US seem to be a very emotional thing, seemingly to the extend of nearly being something religious.
You can't argue with faith, be it faith in god or faith in guns... Its hard to argue with an irrational fear of firearms derived from not growing up around and shooting them. I live in rural america. We go shooting regularly, regardless of political beliefs. Most people own guns, again, regardless of their political beliefs. I shot guns before I was 10. When some city slicker tells me my culture is unacceptable it sounds snobbish, arrogant, and self-important. The last murder in my town was years ago, and wasn't even done with a gun. We're not worried about it. Your problem is... We also grow up "around" guns, ffs ~60-70% of the male population is undergoing military training with an assault rifle... So there is hardly some "irrational fear" of guns, it's just that most non-hunters/sport-shooters don't see a (smart) use for them in our day to day lives and therefore many of us rather remove the possible danger out of our lives instead of having it in case some weird scenario happens. I see were you coming from and I actually agree that guns aren't the problem, BUT guns are easily capable of making existing problems unload in a terrible way and on top of that can and do create very sad accidents. I was addressing people who don't. There is definitely a lot of irrational fear of guns. Talking to rich city folk, they get scared or look at you funny if they realize you own a gun. Some are even sketched out about knives, and will think you're crazy if you carry one in your pocket. Its highly irrational, and qualifies as a phobia imo. Being one of those city folks who will look funnily at people if they tell me they carry a gun or any knife bigger than a victorinox around with them regularly is not due to some irrational fear. It is due to the implications that you for some reason feel it is necessary for you to walk around with these "tools" on an average day in life, because that is what is irrational here. What situation in your daily life have YOU encountered where a gun was needed to resolve the issue? I will admit to being fairly young (mid-twenties), but I have yet to even experience a drunken fight (despite getting extremely cocky when I get drunk and getting drunk in the shadier parts of town), a mugging or anything in which a gun would be remotely useful. That's good, I'm glad you've never been into trouble. But you're arguing that carrying a weapon to prevent something that's a rare occurrence is irrational. The purpose of gun control is to prevent something that is a rare occurrence. So isn't it... irrational? A person carrying a gun can prevent themselves from being raped, mugged, assaulted etc. without even having to kill the person. They can simply pull it out and watch them run away. These crimes have a much higher rate of incidence than homicide does. How does it make sense to trade my freedom to carry a gun, when the return is so meager and far less than what I get if I keep it? To draw an analogy, using a condom to prevent incurable STD's (as opposed to the easily fixed variety) could be called irrational under his logic. Not that many people in America have incurable STD's, and they certainly aren't trying to spread them around, so wearing a condom is irrational and paranoid. I can't even begin to understand how people consider it crazy to carry a weapon for self defense against the unlikely circumstances. Unlikely and impossible are two different things. We rant about "abstinence only" birth control and sex ed, because it's stupid and irresponsible, but a large portion of the same political demographic then turns around and preaches "abstinence only" gun control. Are they directly comparable? No. Obviously. But enough parallels can be drawn that it starts to seem like pure extremism isn't the solution. I would much prefer it if you did not try and put words in my mouth. I have not argued for "absolute abstinence" at any point. If this is to be fruitful in any way, that shit needs to stop right now. Furthermore your analogy is horribly flawed - it fails to recognize any sort of intent for starters - leading you to draw conclusions on flawed premises. @ Smokeyhood: I am arguing that instead of choosing the extreme option which introduces an entirely new level of danger (lethality) into the picture of a mugging one should prefer the non-lethal options (tazers, mazes) which also have the added advantage over a gun carried merely for the fearfactor that these could be carried with the intent of actual use. I do not think that is an irrational stance, but then again, I care less about my vallet than I do about peoples lives (and let us not forget that a gun does in no way have 100% accuracy - there is always the risk of hitting an innocent bystander when you decide to take matters into your own hands). I once again think it is irrational to believe that you are improving the overall safety of the public by adding more guns to the picture, especially when there are non-lethal options out there which work equally well. Just the fact that you make a strong emotional connection with a group that was clearly not intended to include specific individuals suggests that maybe you do think that way. It's a fairly valid blanket statement, when I make it clear that I don't inherently mean everyone within a group, or any specific individual. The analogy DOES hold up, I discussed the potential for intent later. A condom can be used to reduce forensic evidence in a rape, which is malicious intent, if a fringe circumstance, along with the possibility of fatal accidents such as a latex allergy. Just like malicious intent and fatal accidents are a minority with firearms in America.
You refer directly to me, make a statement about "people" and then you do not expect me to understand that as you have included me in that group? Please... Now you are just being silly.
And no, the analogy still does not hold up. What was the gun designed for? Killing. What was the condom designed for? To protect against STDs. Furthermore there are designed latex-free condoms for this exact reason.
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EPT
