Should ex-cons be allowed to own and carry Guns? - Page 4

Khenra

Netherlands885 Posts

February 19 2012 17:46 GMT

#61

On February 20 2012 02:44 NNTP wrote:

and that worked out great in Syria didn't it? unarmed demonstrations to be turned into scenes of massacre by an oppressive government

And you suggest it would have been better if the people carried guns? Somehow I doubt that.

AllSalesFinal

United States211 Posts

February 19 2012 17:47 GMT

#62

On February 20 2012 01:40 DOUDOU wrote:

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so what you are saying is, the carceral system doesn't work
if ex convicts are forever doomed to a outlaw life, and don't have any rights, why not just directly hang them all?

how about using them as slaves? there's no way an ex convict would try to make a life anyway

Any convicts that were convicted of violent crimes should be directly hung, why not indeed. When you commit a crime you are saying you do not care about the laws of the land, so why SHOULD you have the same rights? I don't care if Joe Criminal committed a crime 10 years ago, 10 days ago or 10 minutes ago. He is a criminal, he gave up some of his rights the moment he committed the crime.

Candadar

2049 Posts

February 19 2012 17:47 GMT

#63

On February 20 2012 02:44 NNTP wrote:

Show nested quote +

and that worked out great in Syria didn't it? unarmed demonstrations to be turned into scenes of massacre by an oppressive government

Legalize guns! So that even more people can die unnecessarily!

In the name of Freedom!

Alizee-

United States845 Posts

February 19 2012 17:48 GMT

#64

As a member of a gun forum that have discussed this issue dozens of times the answer is simple. Yes, they should be able to carry to the greatest extent of the law. It is a natural, God given right that the government PROTECTS rather than GRANTS. You can't grant rights, they are ours from our first breath. When you go to prison you lose that right. When you're out of prison you get that right restored. It boils down to this VERY clear and simple fact:

If the person is still a threat to society be it with a gun, a knife, a hammer, or his fists then he should remain locked up otherwise let him exercise his rights freely.

Candadar

2049 Posts

February 19 2012 17:49 GMT

#65

On February 20 2012 02:48 Alizee- wrote:
As a member of a gun forum that have discussed this issue dozens of times the answer is simple. Yes, they should be able to carry to the greatest extent of the law. It is a natural, God given right that the government PROTECTS rather than GRANTS. You can't grant rights, they are ours from our first breath. When you go to prison you lose that right. When you're out of prison you get that right restored. It boils down to this VERY clear and simple fact:

If the person is still a threat to society be it with a gun, a knife, a hammer, or his fists then he should remain locked up otherwise let him exercise his rights freely.

So someone who is shown to be mentally unstable and stabbed his parents should be granted access to walk into a Wal-Mart and grab a shotgun when he is released, because "God gave him his rights back when he was released from prison and the government shouldn't tell us what to do"?

I'm lost.

Redox

Germany24794 Posts

February 19 2012 17:50 GMT

#66

nvm misread

Souldrinkah

Sweden48 Posts

February 19 2012 17:51 GMT

#67

like the law would stop them.

NNTP

Canada47 Posts

February 19 2012 17:51 GMT

#68

On February 20 2012 02:46 Khenra wrote:

Show nested quote +

And you suggest it would have been better if the people carried guns? Somehow I doubt that.

When it comes to that, after all the talking have failed, people have the responsibility to protect their loved ones. Relying on foreign help is irresponsible. Of course it is nice to receive help but you endanger your sovereignty when you allow foreign "liberation troops" set foot on your soil as we all know nothing comes free. Foreigners do not have the same culture nor same reasons for such a war, making a deal with the devil doesn't seem like a good deal for taking care of an internal issue between brothers.

BluePanther

United States2776 Posts

February 19 2012 17:51 GMT

#69

On February 20 2012 02:44 Candadar wrote:

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see:

Show nested quote +

On February 20 2012 02:42 Candadar wrote:

On February 20 2012 02:35 NNTP wrote:
The argument that no one should carry guns as such as owning one increases the chances of going on a killing spree is just wrong. A knife, baseball bat, a woman's stiletto heels for crying out loud can be used for such a purpose. It is not the gun that kills people. It is the other way around, people kill people. A responsible society is one that knows restraint and how to defend itself from foreign, and domestic aggression. Law enforcers are there to protect the society but law makers are elected by the people and as such they are subject to safeguarding and writing policies that increase the well being of the society it serves. Civilians have the right to revolt against an oppressive government that does not obey its constitution and populace. There are checks and balances of power in every country or should be. The people should have the option of taking arms and form a militia when it is deemed necessary. In an ideal world, there should not be violence or weapons but peace and tools but until this is possible (unlikely) then people should not be sheep and hope the lions protect them from wolves.

300 years ago a bunch of people could grab some guns and revolt against their government.

In a day of jets, aircraft carriers, tanks, light armor vehicles, rockets, and automatic weapons that's very different. The law was put in place so that people (a militia) could rise up against their government if they needed to. Not so that you could own an automatic weapon with military grade rounds and go faffing about for shits and giggles. I'm actually all for people having guns in an organized environment. However, Johnny shouldn't be able to go down to the gun store and pick up an automatic weapon or go to a Wal-Mart and buy a 12 gauge shotgun because of "OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SAID IT WAS OKAY"

And yes, you can walk into Wal-Mart and buy a 12 gauge shotgun with basically nothing stopping you other than proving you are of legal age. It's kind of sad, really.

And just for you, I'll pick it out:

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First, maybe you should re-read DC v. Heller. The Supreme Court held that the second amendment protects gun use for "self-defense", not for "revolt". The ability to revolt is just one portion of "self-defense". The 2nd protects against more than the narrow protections you are giving it. And this isn't "the founding fathers". Rather, this was a compromise between the states to ratify the constitution, along with our CURRENT SUPREME COURT.

Second, you can't just walk into WalMart and buy a gun. You need to have a permit. Also, the ATF monitors gun purchases rather rigorously.

Vorgrim

Korea (North)1601 Posts

February 19 2012 17:53 GMT

#70

I'm glad nobody is allowed to freely carry an armed weapon in my country. Going hunting? Sure, not for going to the store.

BluePanther

United States2776 Posts

February 19 2012 17:53 GMT

#71

Candadar

2049 Posts

February 19 2012 17:54 GMT

#72

On February 20 2012 02:51 BluePanther wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 20 2012 02:44 Candadar wrote:

On February 20 2012 02:42 BluePanther wrote:

On February 20 2012 02:24 Candadar wrote:
No one should have that kind of power as a plain old civilians, plain as.

But the government should?

see:

On February 20 2012 02:42 Candadar wrote:

And just for you, I'll pick it out:

I'm actually all for people having guns in an organized environment. However, Johnny shouldn't be able to go down to the gun store and pick up an automatic weapon or go to a Wal-Mart and buy a 12 gauge shotgun because of "OUR FOUNDING FATHERS SAID IT WAS OKAY"

When I was a kid, my father walked into Wal-Mart, showed his ID, and bought a 22 gauge shotgun to teach me how to shoot. All he had to do was show his ID and he was good. I don't know about the rest of the states, but that's horrifying that someone can do that where I used to live.

weekendracer

United States37 Posts

February 19 2012 17:55 GMT

#73

On February 20 2012 01:41 Bone.be wrote:
In belgium 40 % of the ex cons get back in jail within the 2 years.
I don't know if the numbers are the same in the US. But I guess it's even worse (I've been to the US several times).

But if the system declares someone to be ready to join back into normal life they should get the same rights as everyone, unless they are released on conditions for a certain perdiod of time.

Everyone can buy a gun in the US at the age of 16. Do you think everyone at the age of 16 is rational enough to use their gun wisely? Death by gun statistics in the US are way to high, but guns are still for sale to almost everyone.

To change:
Don't sell guns so easely.
Follow excons true their jail time and even after so they get a real chance at rejoining normal life.

You have no idea what you are typing. You are not the only one, just the one I quoted.

Here, a quick google search from the ATF on the actual federal law. Some states restrict this law further.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#age-requirements

Generally you have to be 18 to own a longarm. 21 to own a handgun. I'm talking the 'legal' definition, not the 'mah pappy gav me a gewn wen eye wus three' definition.

When people fear the government, there is tyranny.
When the government fears the people, there is freedom.

Hertzy

Finland355 Posts

February 19 2012 17:55 GMT

#74

I've taken the liberty of posting a thread on gun rights in general, to hopefully keep this thread on topic of ex-con gun rights; http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313472

Candadar

2049 Posts

February 19 2012 17:56 GMT

#75

On February 20 2012 02:55 weekendracer wrote:

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How about a world where neither fears neither?

Crazy, right?

Trotske

410 Posts

February 19 2012 17:56 GMT

#76

I feel like certain crimes should carry a "no longer allowed to have a gun" type punishment.

Yongwang

United States196 Posts

February 19 2012 17:57 GMT

#77

Wow I'm actually a little surprised at how many naive authoritarian lefties there are here. It's really quite sad that some people here hate freedom as much as they do. I'm not calling out any members in particular, just making an observation.

Candadar

2049 Posts

February 19 2012 17:59 GMT

#78

On February 20 2012 02:57 Yongwang wrote:
Wow I'm actually a little surprised at how many naive authoritarian lefties there are here. It's really quite sad that some people here hate freedom as much as they do. I'm not calling out any members in particular, just making an observation.

Fucking classic.

Call anyone who disagrees with you an "authoritarian lefty" and that they "hate freedom"

That's about my cue to leave the thread, when this kind of shit is being slung.

Twas' fun.

One more note though:

On February 20 2012 03:00 llKenZyll wrote:

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Well you cant just walk around with a gun in the USA either....

Yes, yes you can. If you got a permit, you can walk around with a gun in your waistband or an automatic weapon in your trunk if you so wish, completely legally.

llKenZyll

United States853 Posts

February 19 2012 18:00 GMT

#79

On February 20 2012 02:53 Vorgrim wrote:
I'm glad nobody is allowed to freely carry an armed weapon in my country. Going hunting? Sure, not for going to the store.

Well you cant just walk around with a gun in the USA either....

NNTP

Canada47 Posts

February 19 2012 18:03 GMT

#80

Not surprising as we are on a gaming forum

I used to think the world could be forever peaceful without the use of violence as mahatma Gandhi preached but growing up, I found out that in all of civilization and in the animal kingdom this is not realistic. I am not saying we should not try to attain this but however honorable such a quest is, we must look reality into the eye and realize and see it as it is. Even Gandhi preached the use of "JUSTIFIED" violence.

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