EPTIt actually sounded like some kind of caveman syntax
Interesting series of documentaries about feminism - Page 7
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
It actually sounded like some kind of caveman syntax | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26032 Posts
On November 19 2013 13:25 Djzapz wrote: Men are naturally physically stronger on average. Everything else could be social constructs as far as I know. Some people argue that we're intellectually exactly the same in every way and it's society that shapes us to be the way we are. As far as I can tell, that would be a curious and incredible coincidence. There probably are some potentially marginal and irrelevant differences on average where one sex is better than the other - yet there's no real way to test for it until we raise hundreds if not thousands children in a controlled environment for the sake of testing their cognitive capacities over the course of their life... Meh! It's just that whole nature vs. nurture debate that we'll never get rid off. The thing is especially annoying to discuss because you have die hard supporters of both sides who refuse to understand that different people have different innate faculties AND their environment shapes them also. It's a complex issue, or at least something difficult to prove without large-scale unethical experiments. Going to make a real big push to become planetary overlord so I can settle this once and for all. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On November 19 2013 10:09 Xiphos wrote: Women are better at some things while men are better at others. Its a synergic system we have crafted long ago. You can't be awesome at everything, there must be tradeoff. /close thread. Seriously you guys are writing paragraph long essay when everything is just so simple that it hurts. Really? I must be missing something because I actually thought it was a rather complex issue. Glad to hear you have solved this shit though, maybe you can enlighten the rest of us with your superior understanding. | ||
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jacevedo
31 Posts
On November 20 2013 01:57 Wombat_NI wrote: It's a complex issue, or at least something difficult to prove without large-scale unethical experiments. Going to make a real big push to become planetary overlord so I can settle this once and for all. We don't need unethical experiments. We already have a decent enough control group: babies. And the experiments with babies have already been done. Those experiments have strongly suggested there are in fact significant biological differences between the sexes. Obviously the nature/nurture debate is stupid because it's clearly both, but I think it's fair to say that most experiments today have supported the Nature side of the debate where academia previously pushed Nurture, and biology is progressing in that direction. Unfortunately most people don't hear about these findings so much, because they are terribly inconvenient premises for the sociologists and other potential architects of utopia. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On November 20 2013 07:04 Barrin wrote: When I was younger (not long ago really) I would take pride in being "chivalrous"; I didn't like the idea that "chivalry is dead." For whatever reasons I had a kind of fantasy where I would rescue some "damsel in distress" along with performing some severe act of "retribution". I would take offense when people were condescending towards "white knights" and immediately assumed they were culprits of "chauvinism". I now know that I was being extremely naive. I now hope that I am never unfortunate enough to be in a situation where it would be up to me to enact "justice" with immediate violence (not that I purposely avoid it). If I ever find myself there I hope I will do what is necessary, damsel or not. I wish feminism was about equality for everyone, but I'm afraid that might not be the case in a lot of circles. --- What really started to change my mind was this middle-aged female YouTuber who takes a stance against misandry. You can find her channel here, but there is a higher concentration of videos I've seen if you type "girlwriteswhat" into the YouTube search box. Unfortunately she is long-winded, but she is quite knowledgeable on the subject and very rational, and frankly listening to a woman bash misandry/"feminism" is distinctly convincing. I am afraid one risks becoming misogynistic when consuming too much of www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill, but there are many great examples of modern misandry posted within. If you frequent this place, a good dose of The Art of Manliness can help you from becoming an asshole and getting stuck in the Alpha/Beta paradigm. The nature of http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights makes it decidedly biased (and not without misogyny), but if you're still on the fence about whether or not men have gender-specific issues then it's worth checking out. --- In my other/first post in this thread, I mentioned that I don't think freedoms should be denied (or even discouraged in society) based on sex or gender. I want to clarify that and say that I believe in meritocracy, where the people who are most qualified for a certain job should always get the job over someone less qualified. (This also means that I lean against Affirmative Action, but that's a different story.) In an attempt to counteract any pro-male bias above, let me reiterate the fact that in our "patriarchal society" (U.S.), women tend to make significantly less than men even for the same jobs.[1], [2], [3] (<- all PDF). edit: 'misandry' to 'misandry/"feminism"' Or you can read http://manboobz.com/ which looks at something horrible and toxic like the red pill and turns it into mocking comedy to allow people to cope with such things existing in the world. Or if you want to read comments about how girlwriteswhat is a total idiot that doesn't know what she's talking about. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18114 Posts
In a widely-read study, business school students were given a case assignment on Heidi, a real-life successful entrepreneur in Silicon Valley. But there was a catch. Half of the class randomly received their case with one teensy tiny change made: The name "Heidi" was changed to "Howard." Afterward, the students were surveyed, and though Heidi and Howard were found equally competent (as they should have been because they are the same person), the students found Howard much more likeable. The following ad pretty much sums up why. Source | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
All of our deep-seated hatred of women is instilled at a young age. We must reverse this trend before students grow to be of business school age! Forward march! | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
How many business school students and why are business school students representative of widespread social issues? I would argue, and I mean no offense to individual business school students, that the scum of the earth misogynists are probably over-represented in that area of study. Also this video is a bit annoying. It does bring up valid points in such a clumsy way... Boss -> Bossy. Everybody complains that their Boss is bossy, male or female. Persuasive -> Pushy. Those are completely different things that can clearly be about both men and women. Dedicated -> Selfish. This might be a thing for the people who think women should be limited to their "motherly duties" or whatever. Neat -> Vain. I'm frankly more likely to mock guys who do this. It's bad of me but this one is complete bullshit. Smooth -> Show-off. That never happened in the history of the last 20 years, what the fuck. Prejudice is omnipresents with women being discriminated against in many if not most areas of life. I'm not surprised that Pantene would only come up with a bullshit 1 minute clip on "labels" that don't actually exist in society. | ||
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dark0dave
179 Posts
On November 15 2013 23:09 Zealos wrote: That was some of the biggest pile of rubbish I've ever heard. Please just post it on the MRA reddit, where men like to complain about how hard they have it, instead of leaving it sitting on a forum that I read regularly. The interview video is good though ^^ Hear hear, however there are issues for the male community. That being said sexism against women is still rampent. If you doubt this, look for any strong female characters in video games. | ||
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oBlade
United States5765 Posts
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hummingbird23
Norway359 Posts
On January 07 2014 18:02 oBlade wrote: Why should a survey of fantasy game characters be the first thing you go to when characterizing the problems between the sexes? Because it's a facet of culture. The same way that one might characterize say, common themes and tropes in Hollywood action films. To use the word "first" is misleading, it's one of many things that can be analyzed. People write what they think, unconsciously. And also, especially in video game culture (and virtually everything else), it's not just "problems between the sexes", but rather "problems about the portrayal of both sexes". | ||
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sc4k
United Kingdom5454 Posts
My conclusion after having pondered it for a while is that there should be no difference - the people in any imagined (but ultimately similar to our) world who are going to grow up to become, for example, 'fighters', are not usual, standard people. Those standard people are doing the farming and the fishing. In whatever circumstance a woman or man could become something like a fighter, they would almost certainly have to have a certain strength and ability about them. Games, like movies, are all about creating a character whose story can be as unique as it needs to be to have them be the protagonist - for that reason, despite the fact that it might be rarer in today's society or any other society to find a woman who is as strong as a *strong* man, there's no reason why our protagonist in question can't be that rare person. I should also point out that in a fantasy context, the strength and body structure required to fight handily with swords and shields is fairly unique. It takes a certain type of body control and endurance rather than simply muscle mass, and in terms of being effective with weapons, it can be closer to golf than it can to, say, chopping wood. I have a friend who is a reenactor who also fights with real, blunted weapons, who has told me several of the women in his company are as tough a task as any of the men to defeat. A final point is that the term 'strength' covers so much that it would be a little ridiculous to cut down women's as standard. Strength often goes into 'chance to hit' which is clearly bizarre to give women a penalty in. Carrying weight - seeing as this isn't about making a one-time push but literally carrying things around - it's heavily based on endurance and mental tolerance, and I don't see how there is any sense in arguing that all women should start off at a disadvantage to men in that aspect. Damage done to enemy when they hit - to be honest, you are never going to be swinging at your maximum strength in a fight. You put in what you need to do to get your sharp, heavy blade to slice or stab your opponent - which isn't much. It's more about timing and accuracy. Even wielding a warhammer or battleaxe requires a lot more craft than just bashing your opponent - and even when considering this, you will mostly be letting the weight of the weapon do the 'talking'. I'm sorry if this is wildly off topic for the purists...just felt like picking up a topic that hasn't already been beaten to death and is still something of a 'hot point' in video game culture. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5296 Posts
On December 13 2013 09:46 Djzapz wrote: How many business school students and why are business school students representative of widespread social issues? I would argue, and I mean no offense to individual business school students, that the scum of the earth misogynists are probably over-represented in that area of study. Also this video is a bit annoying. It does bring up valid points in such a clumsy way... Boss -> Bossy. Everybody complains that their Boss is bossy, male or female. Persuasive -> Pushy. Those are completely different things that can clearly be about both men and women. Dedicated -> Selfish. This might be a thing for the people who think women should be limited to their "motherly duties" or whatever. Neat -> Vain. I'm frankly more likely to mock guys who do this. It's bad of me but this one is complete bullshit. Smooth -> Show-off. That never happened in the history of the last 20 years, what the fuck. Prejudice is omnipresents with women being discriminated against in many if not most areas of life. I'm not surprised that Pantene would only come up with a bullshit 1 minute clip on "labels" that don't actually exist in society. it is actually way simpler: men are perceived as good while women perceived as evil. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On January 07 2014 10:49 dark0dave wrote: Hear hear, however there are issues for the male community. That being said sexism against women is still rampent. If you doubt this, look for any strong female characters in video games. If you call that sexism then it goes both way. When the primary audience for a media is women, they paint men the way it pleases them (songs, women magazines, some movies/TV-shows). When the primary audience is men, they paint women the way it pleases them (car magazines, video games). But to begin with, I don't even agree this is a problem. If you want to argue sexism, which I think exists (both ways), pick a subject that really matters like jobs, education, rights etc. Edit: And I'm annoyed I cannot access the study in question (a few posts above) without having to pay the PDF. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
For most companies you'd need a tremendous difference in skill or intelligence to really see one company dominate others. It's possible that going into a somewhat untapped employee pool would bring a new perspective which might help a company/business, but that really shouldn't be the case. It is entirely possible that men are being considered more for certain high position jobs and a higher percent female workforce would not give one company an edge over the other. You can, however, still argue that female individuals who are far more competent than other male individuals aren't getting the job due to sexism, but I find that's a really strange argument to make (employers in large companies I'd guess like money more than they like to make their workforce primarily male). So I do believe it's possible that sexism may be a final decider for two equally skilled or similarly skilled employees. A mandatory 50/50 split should make sense (AS LONG AS THERE ARE AN EQUAL NUMBER OF APPLICANTS. IF THERE AREN'T, THEN A SPLIT BASED ON THE APPLICANT POOLS SIZE IS MORE APPROPRIATE). Someone else brought up the idea that if sexism wasn't around (loose summary), then you'd expect to see a natural 50/50 split. If you didn't, then biological reasons should account for the difference. Makes sense. So then the argument follows that this possible biological difference can influence the situation while social biases are present. Neurochemical and biological differences certainly say it's possible, but from what I understand, the degree of differences shouldn't be that big in abilities. Physique-wise, a woman working out to the same degree as a man won't be incredibly far behind the man in terms of strength, which is why saying the average woman is weaker than the average man by a good degree is pretty stupid to chock up to biology. Men tend to work out more than women on average, and casually going to the gym or even taking gym classes more seriously in school is not that uncommon, whereas less importance is placed on physical fitness for women (past a certain extent, of course). The reason for this whole paragraph of text is to say that there may be a reason for women not being represented well in job requiring physical labor outside of biology, and takes much more from a social aspect. The reason this is important is because despite this, there isn't any mandatory 50/50 split for service individuals in companies requiring good amounts of physical fitness. So, the 50/50 rule isn't applied evenly to all professions. And last comment, the point of that last paragraph or so was to say that I agree that the 50/50 rule for employment is relatively stupid, as it doesn't actually try to make society equal. It makes whichever jobs people feel are important more equal. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
not significant. The name Heidi is clearly of german origin and a negative attitude towards germans might have changed the results considerably. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On January 08 2014 09:45 Yuljan wrote: not significant. The name Heidi is clearly of german origin and a negative attitude towards germans might have changed the results considerably. Seriously? The entire world is not Greece. However, that commercial was disgusting. It basically took a legitimate issue, in this case women's rights and tried to use it to sell a product . Buy Pantene to show that you are against labels concerning the sexes. But something does tell me that most people did not notice this was a commercial for a shiny hair product. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
On January 07 2014 10:49 dark0dave wrote: Hear hear, however there are issues for the male community. That being said sexism against women is still rampent. If you doubt this, look for any strong female characters in video games. Indirect evidence of the issue is usually bad for making a point, especially when citing information from a industry that has good reason to design games for men: they make up most of the consumer base, especially for the less casual products. As a guy who is almost incapable of things like sexism and racism, I never really cared about the lack of strong female characters. Just didn't give a shit until some people got uppity and said that if there aren't tons girls in games, the games are sexist and they turn the guys playing them into sexists, at which point I got uppity because they're fucking with my games. Perhaps a better way to make your point would be to cite the flame Anita Sarkeesian got. No matter your opinion about her video series, people got really pissed and they really crossed too many lines. | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
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