|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i know how long 100 yards is but i don't know how long say 20000 yards is. (without converting it into meters)
|
On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant.
The benefits far outweigh the bad side imo. I could make a thousand examples but you have some on the wiki page and the sources. Of course no is going to force a whole country to change its measure system, the only ones affected are the people living there. But you can't ignore that the imperial system makes no sense, especially in today's world.
|
On October 16 2012 01:34 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. So that everyone who is internationally based doesn't have to use two different systems? Also I'm not sure why it would cost "huge sums" of money. huge compared to the money you have available or huge compared to the military expenses of the US?
...What?
Who is using two different systems? I don't know of any scientific discipline where the Imperial and Metric systems are used alongside each other. That doesn't make very much sense. If you're talking about individuals, I'm sure there are people that use the Metric system in their industry, but deal with the Imperial system in their daily life, and it's not that hard. After all, we grew up with the Imperial system, so it's easy for us to visualize how tall someone is in feet, how much they weigh in pounds, and how many fluid ounces come in a cup of Starbucks. I wouldn't say having to use a different system in daily life is holding anybody back.
As for money, "huge sums" of money means way more than the benefit that would be gained from switching. When you can quantify how much we lose from maintaining a different standard of measurement, and prove to me that it is more than the cost of revising millions of government records, signs, standards, labels, etc., I'll be behind switching 100% of the way. Not sure why you decided to throw in the obligatory "Americans spend too much money on military" comment, it just makes you look like a stereotyping fool, but that even proves the point further. If we allocate funds so irresponsibly already, can we really afford to switch systems in the midst of a financial crisis?
|
On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant.
No need to get angry. With the internet these days, the Imperial System will most likely get phased out over the next couple of generations naturally due to availability of information. It's obviously not as easy as saying "Teach the Metric System at School NOW!", but honestly I don't think it's that far from it. Obviously a lot of people rely on the Imperial System these days (people who refuse to switch to anything else), however as generations die out people are becoming a lot more open minded when it comes to education. The world is getting a lot more globalized, and I think that will be the downfall of the Imperial System.
Also from personal experience I can say it fucks me over a little bit, especially since a lot of texts/web servers are from America and use Imperial measures. If I want to check my BMI with an American Script, I generally am forced to calculate pounds - kilograms which waste valuable seconds of my life (It adds up...)
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 16 2012 01:43 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:34 Hryul wrote:On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. So that everyone who is internationally based doesn't have to use two different systems? Also I'm not sure why it would cost "huge sums" of money. huge compared to the money you have available or huge compared to the military expenses of the US? ...What? Who is using two different systems? I don't know of any scientific discipline where the Imperial and Metric systems are used alongside each other.
http://articles.cnn.com/1999-09-30/tech/9909_30_mars.metric_1_mars-orbiter-climate-orbiter-spacecraft-team?_s=PM:TECH
also
http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Analytical_Chemistry/Quantifying_Nature/Case_Studies:_Metric//English_Conversion_Errors
|
On October 16 2012 01:41 NeonFox wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. The benefits far outweigh the bad side imo. I could make a thousand examples but you have some on the wiki page and the sources. Of course no is going to force a whole country to change its measure system, the only ones affected are the people living there. But you can't ignore that the imperial system makes no sense, especially in today's world.
And are any of those benefits worth billions of dollars to pay for them?
Let's also be clear, the imperial system makes sense, if you take the time to understand it. However, it is counter-intuitive, cumbersome, and in pretty much all cases inferior to metric. I acknowledge that. If our country had originated with the metric system, I'd be all for it.
But I haven't really seen an excuse for switching aside from "It's inconvenient to have two standards of measurement, and I don't like Imperial units." OK...that is a perfectly valid opinion, but is it really worth spending billions of dollars on a convenience in our financial state? I disagree with you that the supposed benefits would outweigh the cost. In the areas of the U.S. where metric is necessary, it is already used. Everywhere else Imperial still exists, and people make do just fine.
|
On October 16 2012 01:36 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:34 claybones wrote:
As an engineer living in America, I use standard units when I am forced to. I usually convert into metric as soon as possible though and convert back for finalized work. You have to be careful about that though, because depending what you're working on and how many calculations/conversions you are making, it can actually become difficult to retain accuracy across the systems of measurement. I won't speak for your job, but that's just what I've noticed when I've tried to do it that way. For me, it's just easier to get used to Imperial and stick with it throughout since that's what the final result needs to be.
Quite true, I use my discretion when it comes to conversion but if I have a choice I prefer metric.
|
On October 16 2012 01:19 DownOnMyNiece wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:09 oneofthem wrote:
now that we have a clearer understanding of the flaws of american measurements let's discuss the flaws of cooking measurements.
the standard cup is pretty small and it's not cool to have to buy a measuring cup and spoons etc just to use recipes. Man, you're so right about that. Those measurements are relics of a time when only women would cook and bake and every woman had a firm grasp of how much stuff would fit onto a tablespoon or how large cups are. When talking about "cups" in a cooking sense, they really mean half a human sized coffee cup, which ruined my first experiments with baking...
???
I cook after reciepes and only use measurments like "teaspoon, tablespoon, cup" and never had any issues... I actually like it because i never have to weight anything...
Yeah, it's stupid when scientifically speaking, but it serves it's job perfectly while cooking and isn't used anywhere else.
|
On October 16 2012 01:44 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:43 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:34 Hryul wrote:On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. So that everyone who is internationally based doesn't have to use two different systems? Also I'm not sure why it would cost "huge sums" of money. huge compared to the money you have available or huge compared to the military expenses of the US? ...What? Who is using two different systems? I don't know of any scientific discipline where the Imperial and Metric systems are used alongside each other. http://articles.cnn.com/1999-09-30/tech/9909_30_mars.metric_1_mars-orbiter-climate-orbiter-spacecraft-team?_s=PM:TECHalso http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Analytical_Chemistry/Quantifying_Nature/Case_Studies:_Metric//English_Conversion_Errors
Ahh, the classic Mars orbiter example. Let's not blame incompetence on the standard of measurement. You would think an organization such as NASA would just use metric, since aerospace engineering is an international field, but if they were forced to retain Imperial units, they should have stuck with Imperial units. The fault there lies with NASA, not the standard of measurement. When you're dealing with billions of dollars worth of equipment, you can't make a mistake like that, Imperial, Metric, or otherwise.
|
On October 16 2012 01:44 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. No need to get angry. With the internet these days, the Imperial System will most likely get phased out over the next couple of generations naturally due to availability of information. It's obviously not as easy as saying "Teach the Metric System at School NOW!", but honestly I don't think it's that far from it. Obviously a lot of people rely on the Imperial System these days (people who refuse to switch to anything else), however as generations die out people are becoming a lot more open minded when it comes to education. The world is getting a lot more globalized, and I think that will be the downfall of the Imperial System. Also from personal experience I can say it fucks me over a little bit, especially since a lot of texts/web servers are from America and use Imperial measures. If I want to check my BMI with an American Script, I generally am forced to calculate pounds - kilograms which waste valuable seconds of my life (It adds up...)
Again, as long as historical records, signs, labels, and such continue to be made in Imperial units, it can't be phased out. And they have to continue to be made in Imperial units unless you go back and change the ones we currently have, and that's where overwhelming costs come to bear.
As part of my job I deal with state records going back to 1876 that are all in Imperial measurements. Starting tomorrow we could record everything in metric, except that every single flume, datalogger, model, and historical record in the state would need to be changed to reflect that. It's completely unfeasible. The Imperial system sucks, but we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future unless we find ourselves with a massive surplus we have no idea what to do with.
|
That is by far and wide a failure made by beauracracy and not imperial units
|
Also the idea that the Internet alone will eradicate the use of imperial measurements I hilarious. I have spent a majority of my life in front of a computer screen and still don't even know my own weight in kg. nor can I even reasonably estimate the temperature in Celsius. (Which is just as arbitrary a measurement of heat as Fahrenheit)
|
On October 16 2012 01:56 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:44 blug wrote:On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. No need to get angry. With the internet these days, the Imperial System will most likely get phased out over the next couple of generations naturally due to availability of information. It's obviously not as easy as saying "Teach the Metric System at School NOW!", but honestly I don't think it's that far from it. Obviously a lot of people rely on the Imperial System these days (people who refuse to switch to anything else), however as generations die out people are becoming a lot more open minded when it comes to education. The world is getting a lot more globalized, and I think that will be the downfall of the Imperial System. Also from personal experience I can say it fucks me over a little bit, especially since a lot of texts/web servers are from America and use Imperial measures. If I want to check my BMI with an American Script, I generally am forced to calculate pounds - kilograms which waste valuable seconds of my life (It adds up...) Again, as long as historical records, signs, labels, and such continue to be made in Imperial units, it can't be phased out. And they have to continue to be made in Imperial units unless you go back and change the ones we currently have, and that's where overwhelming costs come to bear. As part of my job I deal with state records going back to 1876 that are all in Imperial measurements. Starting tomorrow we could record everything in metric, except that every single flume, datalogger, model, and historical record in the state would need to be changed to reflect that. It's completely unfeasible. The Imperial system sucks, but we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future unless we find ourselves with a massive surplus we have no idea what to do with.
You can though, and as things start becoming more computerized it will probably occur more gradually rather than instantaneously. Other Countries phased out the Imperial System, as will America eventually. Even in Australia, as the Imperial system was being phased out, there was this really weird transition where some people were using metrics while others were using imperial, however, everybody had in their mind that they would switch as soon as they acquired ed new architectures. As you said, NASA were silly not to implement the Metric System with their new architecture, and you will most likely be saying that about businesses in the future.
It's nothing to do with convenience either, it's to do with efficiency. You say that billions of dollars isn't worth it, but the amount of time wasted on a global scale.... it adds up, especially over a long time. You can even argue that this ideology is partly the reason the world is in a financial crisis, because to many people go for the quick cash grabs but don't think of longevity. This is a longevity issue in itself, that should be rectified sooner rather than later.
|
On October 15 2012 20:47 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2012 20:37 netherh wrote:On October 15 2012 20:19 zatic wrote:
Oh speaking of natural, why does an ounce of water not weigh one ounce? I want to know, seriously. Is there another liquid that does weigh an ounce? One ounce of water does weigh one ounce. One "fluid ounce" of water does not weigh the same as one ounce, because "fluid ounces" measure volume, not weight. Note, however, that using the imperial system, 1 fluid ounce of water does weigh 1 ounce (because the volume system was based on the weight system for water). Nope. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouncehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_ounce28.41g != 28.35g Anyone else?
That's not even right for the US bashing fluid ounces is actually one area imperial differs from US customary units. US units are bigger.
|
On October 16 2012 02:04 blug wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 01:56 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:44 blug wrote:On October 16 2012 01:28 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:19 NeonFox wrote:On October 16 2012 01:11 ZasZ. wrote:On October 16 2012 01:01 Matoo- wrote:
We could rename "meter" in "leg", "liter" in "bladder" and so on and the metric, erm legic system would combine the best of both worlds and Americans can finally join us without looking back. I'd like a bladder of milk please, and give me a quarter leg of that bacon. Is this really what Europeans think? We don't change to metric because we enjoy the imperial system? I don't think you'll find an American in this thread who will (seriously) say that the Imperial system is more intuitive or easier to understand. It's not. But it's the system we have, and it's so far ingrained that it would be hugely cost ineffective and impractical to change it, especially in our financial state. I'll say it again, since all the "Murcans r dum" Europeans are ignoring it: I am an engineer and deal with the Imperial system because that is what irrigators in my state historically recorded their water rights by. If we were to change, it would require revising millions of unique state records so that they are in the metric system as opposed to the imperial system. Completely impractical. Yeah but you will have to change at some point, the amount of data to convert will only get worse. That or you're stuck using it forever. The only 3 countries not using SI are Burma, Liberia and the US. Did you know that fields like medecine, science, most parts of the government, most industries and also the army uses the metric system in the US? I'm sure it could be introduced for the rest of the US and be learned in one or two generations. But to serve what purpose, exactly? Using the metric system for medicine, science, and similar fields (including other engineering disciplines) makes sense to me because in many cases they can be internationally collaborative efforts. My job, however, is not internationally-based, and barely extends outside the state of Colorado. What practical purpose would it serve to switch to metric? To make it easier for college graduates coming into the industry? That was no problem at all, it didn't take me very long at all to get used to using imperial units in engineering. That's the biggest thing that pisses me off about this discussion. The Imperial system is cumbersome and counter-intuitive, but it's there. In some cases, especially when it involves working with other countries, it makes sense to switch to the metric system in the U.S. In other cases, it does not. Why is it so essential that the entire world use the exact same standard of measurement, in all cases, without exception, even when it would cost huge sums of money? It's easier said than done to "change your system, it's stupid," and just makes people look short-sighted and arrogant. No need to get angry. With the internet these days, the Imperial System will most likely get phased out over the next couple of generations naturally due to availability of information. It's obviously not as easy as saying "Teach the Metric System at School NOW!", but honestly I don't think it's that far from it. Obviously a lot of people rely on the Imperial System these days (people who refuse to switch to anything else), however as generations die out people are becoming a lot more open minded when it comes to education. The world is getting a lot more globalized, and I think that will be the downfall of the Imperial System. Also from personal experience I can say it fucks me over a little bit, especially since a lot of texts/web servers are from America and use Imperial measures. If I want to check my BMI with an American Script, I generally am forced to calculate pounds - kilograms which waste valuable seconds of my life (It adds up...) Again, as long as historical records, signs, labels, and such continue to be made in Imperial units, it can't be phased out. And they have to continue to be made in Imperial units unless you go back and change the ones we currently have, and that's where overwhelming costs come to bear. As part of my job I deal with state records going back to 1876 that are all in Imperial measurements. Starting tomorrow we could record everything in metric, except that every single flume, datalogger, model, and historical record in the state would need to be changed to reflect that. It's completely unfeasible. The Imperial system sucks, but we are stuck with it for the foreseeable future unless we find ourselves with a massive surplus we have no idea what to do with. You can though, and as things start becoming more computerized it will probably occur more gradually rather than instantaneously. Other Countries phased out the Imperial System, as will America eventually. Even in Australia, as the Imperial system was being phased out, there was this really weird transition where some people were using metrics while others were using imperial, however, everybody had in their mind that they would switch as soon as they acquired ed new architectures. As you said, NASA were silly not to implement the Metric System with their new architecture, and you will most likely be saying that about businesses in the future. It's nothing to do with convenience either, it's to do with efficiency. You say that billions of dollars isn't worth it, but the amount of time wasted on a global scale.... it adds up, especially over a long time. You can even argue that this ideology is partly the reason the world is in a financial crisis, because to many people go for the quick cash grabs but don't think of longevity. This is a longevity issue in itself, that should be rectified sooner rather than later.
I agree that many things will continue to gradually transition from Imperial to Metric in this country. And wherever that happens, it happens for a reason, usually to promote international collaboration. But there are many areas where a switch to Metric would have to be forced and instantaneous (or at least as instantaneous as it could be), and it's in those cases where it becomes prohibitively expensive in both time and money.
And no, I will not likely be saying that about businesses in the future. The fields where Imperial is still used (mine included) operate that way for a reason. Colorado, going back to the mid 1800's has been divided up into 160-acre tracts of land referred to as Sections, and 36 Sections correspond to a Township and Range designation (sort of like lat/long). It's pretty arbitrary, but was done this way initially because it was easier to designate irrigation parcels and administer stream systems.
As a result, the administration of irrigation and water rights in this state is so firmly entrenched in the Imperial system that I can't even fathom what would happen or how much work it would take to convert. It would definitely overtax an already thin State budget, and I have no idea what would happen to the water rights, the entities that hold them, or the consultants that work for them.
And all of this exists within Colorado. Nobody anywhere else in the country or world would be affected, positively or negatively, if we were to stick with the Imperial system or convert to the Metric system.
Granted, I realize my anecdotal evidence is in the vast minority, and there are many places where the switch could be made for less (but still a sizable) cost. But my example just serves to demonstrate that a global conversion doesn't benefit everyone in the long run. Also worth noting is that even if it made sense to switch, the cost and general laziness of American governments means that it probably won't happen, making the whole discussion a moot point.
|
On December 09 2011 13:32 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Advantages of Standard
1. Standard goes more naturally with fractions - quarter of a pint, half foot, etc. Technically, you don't say half meter but rather 50 centimeters or 500 millimeters.
2. Standard units are more practical and convenient. No one goes to the grocery to buy 400ml drink, instead, they buy it in 12 ounces. No one buys 5 meters of wood, instead, they buy it is 1x1x12, all in feet.
To me these are not true °_° I would presume only people who are used to the Imperial system think that way because they never hear about 1 Liter Milk Packages. I dont even understand why it is more convenient to say 12 ounces than to say 400ml ;o or more Practical. Also we(at least in germany) very well say "half a meter" or "half a liter" and whatever.
---
I've found this picture;
![[image loading]](http://tij1o.wikispaces.com/file/view/map_of_countries_that_dont_.png/88846061/map_of_countries_that_dont_.png)
Is this accurate/true?
|
Man, not even Puerto Rico? Traitors.
|
Farenheit ? Celsius ? Kelvin ?
QWERTY ? QWERTZ ? AZERTY ? Dvorak ?
You can argue but in the end, it's only a matter of habit, and you get confused if you use another one.
|
On October 16 2012 02:52 Daumen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 09 2011 13:32 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
Advantages of Standard
1. Standard goes more naturally with fractions - quarter of a pint, half foot, etc. Technically, you don't say half meter but rather 50 centimeters or 500 millimeters.
2. Standard units are more practical and convenient. No one goes to the grocery to buy 400ml drink, instead, they buy it in 12 ounces. No one buys 5 meters of wood, instead, they buy it is 1x1x12, all in feet.
To me these are not true °_° I would presume only people who are used to the Imperial system think that way because they never hear about 1 Liter Milk Packages. I dont even understand why it is more convenient to say 12 ounces than to say 400ml ;o or more Practical. Also we(at least in germany) very well say "half a meter" or "half a liter" and whatever. --- I've found this picture; Is this accurate/true?
The image is fairly true although it should have different shades to be more accruate.
at "face value" it is that way but for instance if we used white as "completely metric" and red as "completely imperial" and different shades of red to white (light/dark) no country (at least modern) would be red or white, they'd be different shades. For instance Canada uses both but mainly uses metric.
|
Also worth noting is that even if it made sense to switch, the cost and general laziness of American governments means that it probably won't happen, making the whole discussion a moot point.
...
Pretty much everything we discuss in these forums won't yield any actual result. That doesn't make them all 'moot points'.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
