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On November 20 2011 06:55 CoolSea wrote:
Next time, if you feel uncomfortable letting them search your room say no until either they get a warrant or an RA or some other school official says you must let them search your room.
This. Always say no, be assertive and forceful in your non-consent, if they really have permission, they will just do it or get the RA to explain that you signed into it upon moving in there.
In Miami at least, there's been a real problem with fake cops doing robberies.
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On November 20 2011 06:53 cgrinker wrote:
When we would enter spaces at my college there are two components:
1) Residence halls are exempt from giving notice about entering dorms. Essentially the law reads that the hall staff can come in whenever they want, and the hall will reserve those rights to protect your privacy.
2)Campus Police cannot enter your space without a warrent, though often if you say "not without a warrent" they will either
a) Have the hall staff do it, and then charge you through the campus conduct office or
b) Call a judge, have the RA's deputized over the phone, and then come into your space.
Know your Rights!
Thank you for this post. I was unaware that people living in dorms had that many rights. I assumed all the police would have to do is request permission from the college to enter a dorm.
OP: I wouldn't worry too much they were probably just doing their investigation of something unrelated to you. You did the manner thing by letting them do their job so they could get out of your hair.
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No, never, ever, ever, ever let police in your home/dorm-room/apartment without cause. Don't be stupid. If one of your friends stashes drugs in your room then your in deep shit and have to prove you knew nothing about it.
If the police want to use some campus regulations to get a university staffer in your room thats fine, but not the police and i would not let that staffer search anything until I knew he had the right to do so - which I doubt he does. He's a f*#@ing staffer.
Again, do not let them in, nothing good can come from it, only trouble for you.
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
On November 20 2011 07:45 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 07:44 Fenrax wrote:
Interesting to read about that in the comments. I didnt know that contracts that allow the police or campus police to look at your room whenever they want are legal in the USA. Doesn't that go against a person's fundamental rights? Like inviolability of the home or property? the patriot act?
I don't know much about that, honestly. It just sounds like China, and not USA. Police can just come to your place and search it for no reason? What is this. My initial feeling would have been that contracts like this should be worth nothing in front of a court.
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It really depends on where you live and whether if you go to a public or private university. It should all be outlined in your contract somewhere, but usually police officers (not campus security) do have to have a warrant to enter your room. However, campus staff, such as maintenance people, cleaning staff, safety inspectors, RAs, hall directors, and even sometimes counselors can enter your room without cause. They also have the authority to grant any officer of the law permission to enter your property without your consent. Generally if an officer is asking permission to search your room (be careful to watch their language for granting permission to enter is not the same as giving permission to search), they were called there by the RA or the hall director. This means they will usually be standing by the officers when they come knocking. So if they come to your door and you don't see an RA with them ask for a search warrant, if they tell you they have been given prior permission then ask them to get an RA to confirm it (also remember officers of the law are legally allowed to lie search your property and persons). There is also the issue of probable cause, but that is a can of worms I don't want to get into.
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You have the right not to talk to the police/let them search your room... id say you should use it, next time ask for a warrant or more info imo.
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On November 20 2011 06:42 forgotten0ne wrote:
I can almost guarantee your dorm contract negates that right. They usually allow themselves full permission for search and seizure at their disposal.
For instance, when I was in the dorms, my roommate moved out. The day after, they came in when I wasn't there, and took a bunch of pictures (to validate that the room had "appropriate living space" [ie my shit wasn't on his side]).
This man is correct.
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You can just ask the cops if you can refuse. If they aren't clear then just say no. They will force themselves in eitherway, but you have more legal footing when you decide to argue it. I've been through this kind of shit, the best rule of thumb is not cooperate in anyway, say nothing, and don't resist them. It'll sort itself out in the end.
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It is amazing how some people attempt a "fuck the police" answer and actually have no idea.
As was stated by some helpful people earlier in this thread, you may have no right to refuse a dorm room search by police staff who were asked to investigate by the university. Furthermore, you are never allowed to obstruct an officer in the execution of his duty -- so the only resistance you are legally allowed is verbal. If they have what is called "probable cause", they can force their way into your dorm room, even your house/car, and you may never physically stop them. The only thing you can do is deny consent and let them decide if they do want to take it further.
Please note that in most cases they have no probable cause and are just asking to get some more information on an ongoing investigation, like in your case. You would never actually get into trouble with either your university or the police for denying consent. Denying consent is one of your rights. Stopping a room search is not.
"Know your rights" does not mean "fuck the police, always ask for a warrant, they can't control you man". It means you actually have to inform yourself about what rights you have, and not just post stupid shit on the internet, or believe stupid shit someone else has posted.
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On November 20 2011 06:51 Mity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:50 tonning wrote:
What if it was fake cops, like thiefs looking at you're dorm room to see if you got something valuable there? Whoa whoa whoa, you just blew my mind.
probably not the smartest move to dress up as a cop and walk around at the university,because you would attract a lot of attention 
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On November 20 2011 08:47 Jinsho wrote:
It is amazing how some people attempt a "fuck the police" answer and actually have no idea.
As was stated by some helpful people earlier in this thread, you may have no right to refuse a dorm room search by police staff who were asked to investigate by the university. Furthermore, you are never allowed to obstruct an officer in the execution of his duty -- so the only resistance you are legally allowed is verbal. If they have what is called "probable cause", they can force their way into your dorm room, even your house/car, and you may never physically stop them. The only thing you can do is deny consent and let them decide if they do want to take it further.
Please note that in most cases they have no probable cause and are just asking to get some more information on an ongoing investigation, like in your case. You would never actually get into trouble with either your university or the police for denying consent. Denying consent is one of your rights. Stopping a room search is not.
"Know your rights" does not mean "fuck the police, always ask for a warrant, they can't control you man". It means you actually have to inform yourself about what rights you have, and not just post stupid shit on the internet, or believe stupid shit someone else has posted.
It's interesting, because you're wrong (or at least partially wrong). If you're going to be condescending, you might want to check that first. In the US (where the OP is from), the issue of whether you're able to physically stop police from entering your property without probable cause/a warrant is a state's issue. This means some states allow it and others do not. I know this because my state's supreme court recently decided that we cannot. In some places, you can apply physical resistance if the police are trying to conduce an improper or illegal search (though you better be prepared to defend it in court). Further, I don't even know where you got this from, as not one suggested physically preventing them from entering.
Also, it's difficult to determine whether police have probable cause. They'll often claim it, and come up with a reason for it later. The part of your post about denying consent vs stopping a search appears to be total word salad. You're basically saying, "you can always deny consent, but if they don't need it they're going to come in anyway." In other words, it's fine to deny consent when it doesn't matter in the first place...
While it's true that "know your rights" doesn't mean "fuck the police," I'd also like to note that these ideas are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to both know your rights and say "fuck the police." The police are there to do their job, which sometimes mean they're there to protect you, and sometimes means they're there to screw you. If you think it's the latter, i don't know why you'd make it easier than you have to.
Also, most of this goes straight out the window for most dorm searches, as the majority of universities require to wave your right to stop a search in your housing contract.
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Although the consensus seems to be that campus PD are able to enter your dorm with or without your consent, from personal experience a few months ago (I go to Rutgers) you can decline them entry from your dorm without a warrant. Know your rights! (Of course this probably varies by dorm contracts and stuff like that).
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if you say no they will come back with a warrant and trash your room.
Trust me
*experience*
If you have something REALLY bad in there that you know about then yea just refuse, but for like pot or bongs it's really not a big deal.
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i'm pretty sure you can say no but they don't need a search warrant; it's property owned by the university and you're merely renting the space. if they needed permission it wouldn't take long for them to call the university itself and get the permission.
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On November 20 2011 10:31 Fallen33 wrote:
i'm pretty sure you can say no but they don't need a search warrant; it's property owned by the university and you're merely renting the space. if they needed permission it wouldn't take long for them to call the university itself and get the permission.
I think it's still worth it to make them get the warrant or call the university. At the very least it allows you to know they actually are police and not something else. (maybe a bit far fetched but has certainly happened before)
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United States7483 Posts
On November 20 2011 06:39 Scv4life wrote:
To make the story short, I was playing some session on bent in my dorm when I heard a knock on the door. When I opened the door two cops showed up and asked if they could search my dorm. When i asked them why, all they gave me was some vague answer like its for a ongoing investigation. I thought I would get in trouble if I refused so I let them search my room. After about 1~2min of looking around they just left. I really don't know whats going on right now or why my room was the only one searched on the floor. So basically what I am asking is: Will I get into any legal trouble for refusing the cops to search by dorm if this happens again? Any input would be greatly appreciated, thnx.
No, if the cops ask, ask for a warrant. Do not ever let the cops in unless they have a valid, legal document saying they have permission to search, even if you have nothing to hide.
Do not let them in.
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I probalby can't help as much as the other people in this thread, but my guess is that you should have told them no, unless there's something in your contract
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As far as dorm rooms go, they don't need a warrant to search the room. Dorm rooms are public property, if they get a report of something happening they can come in and check. Now they can't go looking through stuff of yours that's in your own containers or anything like that, but if anything is sitting out in the open it can give them probable cause to search without the warrant. Been through it myself at school, luckily the cops were nice about underage drinking on campus and we got off with just a fine.
Edit: This is also for a public university. Private Uni's could be very different, and your contract would probably lay out what exactly cops are able to do.
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On November 20 2011 10:41 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On November 20 2011 06:39 Scv4life wrote:
To make the story short, I was playing some session on bent in my dorm when I heard a knock on the door. When I opened the door two cops showed up and asked if they could search my dorm. When i asked them why, all they gave me was some vague answer like its for a ongoing investigation. I thought I would get in trouble if I refused so I let them search my room. After about 1~2min of looking around they just left. I really don't know whats going on right now or why my room was the only one searched on the floor. So basically what I am asking is: Will I get into any legal trouble for refusing the cops to search by dorm if this happens again? Any input would be greatly appreciated, thnx. No, if the cops ask, ask for a warrant. Do not ever let the cops in unless they have a valid, legal document saying they have permission to search, even if you have nothing to hide. Do not let them in.
99.99995 of the time, this is the correct thing.
At a university, it's different. You need to know ahead of time whether they're allowed in without a warrant (in most cases, they are). Campus police are significantly more likely than normal police to go easy on you if you're nice.
If they need a warrant to search your room, tell them they can't enter. If they're allowed in no matter what, you might as well let them in. It sucks, but it's the best chance you have of them not destroying your room, and potentially going easy on you if they find anything.
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On November 20 2011 06:50 tonning wrote:
What if it was fake cops, like thiefs looking at you're dorm room to see if you got something valuable there?
I must be paranoid, but I thought the exact same thing, haha.
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EPT
