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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
On November 20 2011 06:50 tonning wrote: What if it was fake cops, like thiefs looking at you're dorm room to see if you got something valuable there? Seems like an awfully big risk for trying to peak into someones dorm. :D | ||
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Voldron
Greece91 Posts
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
Residence halls are university property. Therefore, the staff have the right to enter a room if they feel university policy is being broken. Usually they will not just "key in" and instead ask to come in after knocking. When I suspected things like alcohol we would never knock because we thought they were drinking - I'd knock because the room was loud and breaking quiet hours policy. If they took longer than 10 seconds to answer the door THEN I'd ask to come in. The only time we ever keyed into a room was when a student with depression had a bad night, got really drunk, yelled at friends, said something about suicide, slammed the door, and then other residents heard a loud bang and a window breaking. Turns out he just slammed his chair on the ground and the pieces broke his window, but my point is that the situation needed to be VERY bad to exercise keying privileges. The police became involved for two reasons with me: the situation was out of the hall director's control OR there was suspected drug activity. There were a couple major drug busts in my time, but I was never involved. I got the potheads! How it worked was we would smell it, call the police, and wait. No knocking, no warning, just waiting and smelling that crap (sometimes for over an hour since campus police are quite busy). The police would arrive and ask to enter. They have no right to enter the space without permission, even if the hall director has the master key right next to them. Most residents would hide their cache and let them in. The cops usually put them through the ringer, but they couldn't search anything that wasn't in plain site. As RA's we would get by that by asking the residents to move things, open refrigerators, open drawers, etc. Police sometimes did that, but mostly tried to scare them. In pot cases the police would eventually leave, most the time leaving the guilty residents scared. From there, they could call the station, draft a search warrant, fax it to a judge for signing, and have another officer drive it over (took about 20 minutes, even at 4am), but I only ever heard of that happening when a bunch of drunk residents were loudly screaming at RA's and Hall Directors since they were caught with alcohol and refused to cooperate with hall staff. After receiving the warrant hall staff unlocked the door and police kicked it in to break the chain lock. In short, you should let hall staff enter your room if they ask. If you have no idea why they're at your front door they'll be in and out before you know it. Same goes for police. If you ARE doing something illegal, specifically underage drinking, then you should definitely deal with the hall staff. If they're knocking on your door you're already busted. Things like underage drinking is illegal and it's infinitely better to go through a hall conduct meeting instead of a police citation. tldr: *Hall staff has the right to enter residence hall space. *You have the decision to let them in or not, but you really should, especially if you have no idea why they're there. *Always ask WHY they want to enter. I personally would not let them in unless I got specifics. Something vague like "drug use", "alcohol", or "weird smells" is sufficient because it shows you their motivation. The fact OP wasn't told tells me they were probably looking for drugs. *Staff and police CANNOT search anything. They CAN ask you to search your own things in front of them. *Police can ONLY search your space independently with a search warrant. They can get these rather quick with probable cause. *Refusing to cooperate with staff or police is an indication that you're hiding something. Special note: Before anyone gets on my case about marijuana in halls - I have nothing against the plant (besides its smell), but I have everything against creating a fire hazard in public living space. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On November 20 2011 22:25 Robinsa wrote: Seems like an awfully big risk for trying to peak into someones dorm. :D This is a big risk. If you have concerns about the police or hall staff there are a few steps. First of all, you should know all the RA's and Hall Directors for your hall. If you don't know them personally you should at least know their face. Pictures are usually posted in public areas (like the hall office). If you have doubts about the police ask for their name and badge number, call the station, and confirm. I've seen a few residents do this without issue. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On November 20 2011 14:06 Mastermind wrote: If they ask for your permission, that means they need it. Otherwise they wouldnt ask. They would just tell you they are searching your room. This isn't true for hall staff. At my old University the policy was that hall staff could enter a room "if they suspected University policy was being broken". When I asked residents to let me in it was a sign of respect. When entering I would always tell them why I asked to come in, usually "I heard loud noises and was going to tell you to quiet down since it's past midnight, but you didn't answer the door, I heard a bunch of people running around. This sounds really bad and I need to do my job and make sure everything is ok." Again, this is a sign of respect because all I was obligated to say was "read your policy book". Police, on the other hand, need permission even if they're accompanied by hall staff (almost always the hall director). | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On November 20 2011 23:19 Servius_Fulvius wrote: The cops usually put them through the ringer, but they couldn't search anything that wasn't in plain site. As RA's we would get by that by asking the residents to move things, open refrigerators, open drawers, etc. Police sometimes did that, but mostly tried to scare them. In pot cases the police would eventually leave, most the time leaving the guilty residents scared. From there, they could call the station, draft a search warrant, fax it to a judge for signing, and have another officer drive it over (took about 20 minutes, even at 4am), but I only ever heard of that happening when a bunch of drunk residents were loudly screaming at RA's and Hall Directors since they were caught with alcohol and refused to cooperate with hall staff. After receiving the warrant hall staff unlocked the door and police kicked it in to break the chain lock. I have a few questions: In the pot case did nothing happen? and what's a ringer? | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:28 JieXian wrote: I have a few questions: In the pot case did nothing happen? and what's a ringer? through the ringer means the cops asked them a bunch of questions and shit. | ||
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On November 21 2011 01:28 JieXian wrote: I have a few questions: In the pot case did nothing happen? and what's a ringer? The previous comment was correct, the ringer = cops asked you a bunch of questions. They may ask the same questions in different ways. They're looking for nonverbal communication that reveals guilt. For most of the pot cases the room smelled like marijuana, the residents' eyes were bloodshot, and they usually had a pipe in plain site. They'd be questioned for about an hour in some cases. More than once the male residents would start crying. The more they seemed to be hiding the longer it took. In almost all the pot cases the cops settled with a long period of hard questions, would confiscate pipes since they were defined as "drug paraphernalia" in university policy, and left it at that. This is how the 5 or so pot calls I made ended up. Most times the residents would flush their stash or hide it. After questioning for an hour the officer usually didn't want to pursue a search warrant. Marijuana calls were pretty low priority on the department's priority list. One time during a football game I smelled it and dispatch told me no one could come. I got the feeling most of the responding officers didn't like these calls, so they were usually happy with scaring recreational users. On the other hand, if they were dealing they were pursued pretty hard. Officers in my hall seized an entire vaporizer filled with dime bags. Across campus they took down a dorm room dealer selling cocaine, ecstacy, and marijuana. About the search warrant bit you italicized: that particular incident happened in the hall across the street. One of the RA's involved was a friend of mine. | ||
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Kluey
Canada1197 Posts
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On November 20 2011 21:46 Flyingdutchman wrote: Since when do contract clauses nullify constitutional rights? That can never hold up in court over here, I assumed the same for the states Lets think, NDA's prohibit you from speaking freely. Rights can be freely waived, right? you can ignore a miranda warning and talk to the cops if you want. Doesn't mean your right doesn't exist...it means you gave it up voluntarily. You did that when you signed a contract. | ||
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Orcasgt24
Canada3238 Posts
On November 20 2011 06:39 Scv4life wrote: To make the story short, I was playing some session on bent in my dorm when I heard a knock on the door. When I opened the door two cops showed up and asked if they could search my dorm. When i asked them why, all they gave me was some vague answer like its for a ongoing investigation. I thought I would get in trouble if I refused so I let them search my room. After about 1~2min of looking around they just left. I really don't know whats going on right now or why my room was the only one searched on the floor. So basically what I am asking is: Will I get into any legal trouble for refusing the cops to search by dorm if this happens again? Any input would be greatly appreciated, thnx. Regardless of wether or not they are legaly allowed to search your dorm, if you have nothing to hide then let them. By dening them they will assume you have something to hide and probably try and find out what that something is, even if it is nothing. Life is alot easier with being hounded by the police. | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
On November 24 2011 14:29 Orcasgt24 wrote: Regardless of wether or not they are legaly allowed to search your dorm, if you have nothing to hide then let them. By dening them they will assume you have something to hide and probably try and find out what that something is, even if it is nothing. Life is alot easier with being hounded by the police. Terrible advice. If you have nothing to hide just let them search you.... is what many a person said until they found out that some one of their friends stashed something in their room they didn't know about. Same thing with cops searching your car. If you don't have to let them search you, don't let them. If they have a suspicion but no evidence, then they won't bother with a warrant. If they do get a warrant, you lost nothing by exercising your rights. | ||
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
On November 20 2011 06:52 Phailol wrote: DO NOT consent to any searches without a warrant. They will NOT respect your property in any way Yeah I've seen this happen quite a number of times | ||
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Bigtony
United States1606 Posts
On November 20 2011 21:46 Flyingdutchman wrote: Since when do contract clauses nullify constitutional rights? That can never hold up in court over here, I assumed the same for the states I believe we would call this type of contract "unconscionable," or just unconstitutional. I must echo the sentiment to politely decline. The cops are not your friends. However, I have to stress BE RESPECTFUL. I don't have anything against cops. My pastor is a cop, my friends are cops, I work with cops every day, BUT they are not your friends. Any police officer will give you the same advice. Respectfully decline to give permission. They will either oblige and if they are serious they'll get a warrant, etc. If they force their way in and mess up your stuff you will have a valid defense in court. Check out this website. http://www.school-training.com/newsletter/articles/dorm-searches-response.shtml Looks pretty legit and cites case law. Specifically notice: Second, some private institutions have a state authorized police department. In those cases, the police officers on campus will be bound by the Constitution notwithstanding the fact that they are employed by a private entity since they derive their authority from state law. Colleges/Universities may have rules that allow for health/safety exceptions. These inspections, conducted by non-law enforcement personnel and which have no criminal investigation purpose do not violate the 4th Amendment when conducted pursuant to a college/university rule. These searches fall under the auspices of administrative searches which have a much lower threshold than criminal investigation searches. [My note - basically this says that your RA and dorm room staff can search without a warrant, as mentioned previously] Items located and seized by resident assistants may be turned over to law enforcement and may be used in a criminal prosecution. If law enforcement, in any way directs the search, the resident assistants become agents of law enforcement thus requiring that all criminal investigation rules, i.e. warrant, exigency or consent, be met before entry is made, before search is conducted or before items are seized. If law enforcement personnel want to enter the dormitory room they must first meet the criminal investigation requirements of warrant, exigency or consent. However if you go on to read the example at the bottom, it says that a University employee may conduct the search without any guidance from police and that anything they find may be used as evidence. | ||
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