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On November 12 2011 05:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +Well, that explains why US prison population is so ridiculously high.
That's so fucking ridiculous. I read a guy got 10 years for stealing 100 dollars this year. This is a parody of justice. At least we know who it benefits. archaic drug and sentencing laws also judges have almost total freedom in sentencing and sentencing guidelines are generally broad. and once you go in on a multiyear sentence it's pretty hard to get parole before you do a majority of your sentence. so there's lots of guys who've been there for 10 or 12 years on a 15 year sentence when they probably shoulda been let out after 6 or 7, things like that. politicians make building prisons too attractive to businesses that build and run them and to smaller towns where the new prisons are usually built. new jobs, new bloated contracts, new taxes, new campaign donations + a "tough on crime" talking point, everybody gets their big fat piece of the pie. except the prisoners of course. and, in the end, the taxpayers.
Yeah. It's really bad when stuff like prisons get privatized. Suddenly some very powerful groups really have interest so that the biggest amount of people go in jail for as long as possible. And well, unfortunately, interest of those groups are not necessarily the interest of Justice.
But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it  Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start.
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On November 12 2011 07:10 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 05:43 DeepElemBlues wrote:Well, that explains why US prison population is so ridiculously high.
That's so fucking ridiculous. I read a guy got 10 years for stealing 100 dollars this year. This is a parody of justice. At least we know who it benefits. archaic drug and sentencing laws also judges have almost total freedom in sentencing and sentencing guidelines are generally broad. and once you go in on a multiyear sentence it's pretty hard to get parole before you do a majority of your sentence. so there's lots of guys who've been there for 10 or 12 years on a 15 year sentence when they probably shoulda been let out after 6 or 7, things like that. politicians make building prisons too attractive to businesses that build and run them and to smaller towns where the new prisons are usually built. new jobs, new bloated contracts, new taxes, new campaign donations + a "tough on crime" talking point, everybody gets their big fat piece of the pie. except the prisoners of course. and, in the end, the taxpayers. Yeah. It's really bad when stuff like prisons get privatized. Suddenly some very powerful groups really have interest so that the biggest amount of people go in jail for as long as possible. And well, unfortunately, interest of those groups are not necessarily the interest of Justice. But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu? I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start.
The real problem, as always, is the 24-hour news cycle. Point out how dumb some particular clause in an anti-CP law is, and bam, CNN, FoxNews, and MSNBC are all over it, and label you as some pervert weirdo. Its even worse for politicians, i.e. the people who actually have the power to do something. If they raise the point that some law is dumb, well their opponent says "HURR DURR SO-AND-SO IS SOFT ON CRIME" and they have to try to defend themselves in a couple of sentences, because that's all the news media is going to play. And so sentences never ever get lowered, only increased, until you get nonsense like the 3-strike law in California, where petty shoplifters end up with LIFE IN PRISON because they got busted one too many times.
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But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start.
well it does take two to tango.
there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself.
you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution.
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and this is why when I discovered child pornography on my computer about 3 years ago (I to this day have no idea how it got there, it was after a LAN party) I literally destroyed the hard drive with an axe as soon as possible.
With penalties like this being thrown around, it was not even worth going to the police and saying "hey, i just found this on my computer I have no idea how it got there" isn't worth it. It's a shame really...
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On November 12 2011 12:26 skipgamer wrote:
and this is why when I discovered child pornography on my computer about 3 years ago (I to this day have no idea how it got there, it was after a LAN party) I literally destroyed the hard drive with an axe as soon as possible.
With penalties like this being thrown around, it was not even worth going to the police and saying "hey, i just found this on my computer I have no idea how it got there" isn't worth it. It's a shame really...
I don't think they would really do anything bad. I don't think that they'd lock you up when you came them and revealed it. They'd have to have pretty weird minds to somehow justify them putting you in prison.
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On November 12 2011 11:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start. well it does take two to tango. there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself. you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution.
Funny you don't get it.
In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?)
In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer.
You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long.
Conclusions: don't privatize prisons and the problem is fucking solved.
(PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming)
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On November 12 2011 22:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 11:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start. well it does take two to tango. there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself. you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution. Funny you don't get it. In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?) In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer. You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long. Conclusions: don't privatize prisons and the problem is fucking solved. (PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming)
Well, it IS partly some Keynesian plot. Building prisons IS an easy way to boost employment. That's not all of it, there are lobbying interests with huge amounts of money to spend on it, but you can't blame ONLY them.
Who goes to jail for bribery? It's not only the person paying the bribe; the person accepting it is just as guilty.
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On November 13 2011 03:57 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2011 22:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 12 2011 11:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start. well it does take two to tango. there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself. you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution. Funny you don't get it. In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?) In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer. You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long. Conclusions: don't privatize prisons and the problem is fucking solved. (PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming) Well, it IS partly some Keynesian plot. Building prisons IS an easy way to boost employment. That's not all of it, there are lobbying interests with huge amounts of money to spend on it, but you can't blame ONLY them. Who goes to jail for bribery? It's not only the person paying the bribe; the person accepting it is just as guilty.
Do you want me to facepalm to death?
France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> much more "keynesian", socialist, or whatever you want than the US
France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> prison sector not privatized
France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> 0,07% people in jail against 1% in US
Conclusion: people are not put in jail to create artificially employment, but because it benefits a for-profit industry.
Seriously, just the fact that you can believe something like that leaves me speechless.
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On November 13 2011 05:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 03:57 Millitron wrote:On November 12 2011 22:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 12 2011 11:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start. well it does take two to tango. there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself. you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution. Funny you don't get it. In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?) In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer. You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long. Conclusions: don't privatize prisons and the problem is fucking solved. (PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming) Well, it IS partly some Keynesian plot. Building prisons IS an easy way to boost employment. That's not all of it, there are lobbying interests with huge amounts of money to spend on it, but you can't blame ONLY them. Who goes to jail for bribery? It's not only the person paying the bribe; the person accepting it is just as guilty. Do you want me to facepalm to death? France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> much more "keynesian", socialist, or whatever you want than the US France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> prison sector not privatized France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> 0,07% people in jail against 1% in US Conclusion: people are not put in jail to create artificially employment, but because it benefits a for-profit industry. Seriously, just the fact that you can believe something like that leaves me speechless.
I agreed with you. I totally agree that lobbying is a big part of it. Its not the whole story though; politicians jump at any chance to spend money, because its an easy way to show the voters that they're involved.
Saying ONLY lobbyists are to blame is like only punishing the guy who solicited a hit-man, while letting the hit-man go free.
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Funny you don't get it.
No you?
In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?)
You don't know anything about the situation in the United States, you just have to view everything through your narrow anti-capitalist prism.
Privatization of prisons is something that's become widespread in the last 20 years, it has been almost 35 years since the start of the prison boom. Business moved in after government made it a cash cow. Harsher sentences as part of the "law and order" mood of the country post-Counterculture era was in the late 70s and early 80s. Harsh anti-drug sentences are from the 80s. Get tough on crime was a reaction to hippies, race riots, and then the crack epidemic. All those things went away but get tough on crime remained. Before prison privatization.
You don't know what happened and you don't know why it happened. Cleaning up the business end is just a third of the solution, but you seem to only care about solutions where government has its nose in business everywhere but no similar burden being placed on government. Because I guess government can't possibly be run by corrupt men unless business is free to corrupt them, right?
You don't know the history so you just have to try to stretch your presumptions to fit an explanation and call stuff dumb.
In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer.
Profit of who? You don't know everyone that profits, you seem to think it's just one group.
You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long.
How can a weak government have enough power to be an attractive target of plutocrats?
Your cognitive dissonance is almost as bad as your contempt.
Conclusions: don't privatize prisons and the problem is fucking solved.
Simplistic and ignorant reasoning results in simplistic and ignorant conclusions. That would not solve the problem. State and local governments aren't going to release huge numbers of prisoners just because privately-run prisons aren't around. They'll just build more themselves so they can keep saying they're "tough on crime." The sentencing guidelines and harsh sentencing / parole approval mindset aren't a product of business pressure. They predate widespread prison privatization.
(PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming)
If government had little money to give and little power to make and break the rules, what benefit would business get corrupting it?
Dumb irrational pity those are all the signs of a weak argument voiced from passion not reason.
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Ya, that's pretty terrifying. I thought people were willing to admit sexual preference is not a choice? Why would pedophelia be any different?
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wow i think that sentance is a bit over the line. :o i cant really see whats wrong with watching child porn except for more people who watch child porn = more people make child porn.  i always go after the "everyone have their own personal taste"
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On November 13 2011 10:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:No you? Show nested quote +In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?)
You don't know anything about the situation in the United States, you just have to view everything through your narrow anti-capitalist prism. Privatization of prisons is something that's become widespread in the last 20 years, it has been almost 35 years since the start of the prison boom. Business moved in after government made it a cash cow. Harsher sentences as part of the "law and order" mood of the country post-Counterculture era was in the late 70s and early 80s. Harsh anti-drug sentences are from the 80s. Get tough on crime was a reaction to hippies, race riots, and then the crack epidemic. All those things went away but get tough on crime remained. Before prison privatization. You don't know what happened and you don't know why it happened. Cleaning up the business end is just a third of the solution, but you seem to only care about solutions where government has its nose in business everywhere but no similar burden being placed on government. Because I guess government can't possibly be run by corrupt men unless business is free to corrupt them, right? You don't know the history so you just have to try to stretch your presumptions to fit an explanation and call stuff dumb. Show nested quote +In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer. Profit of who? You don't know everyone that profits, you seem to think it's just one group. Show nested quote +You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long. How can a weak government have enough power to be an attractive target of plutocrats? Your cognitive dissonance is almost as bad as your contempt. Simplistic and ignorant reasoning results in simplistic and ignorant conclusions. That would not solve the problem. State and local governments aren't going to release huge numbers of prisoners just because privately-run prisons aren't around. They'll just build more themselves so they can keep saying they're "tough on crime." The sentencing guidelines and harsh sentencing / parole approval mindset aren't a product of business pressure. They predate widespread prison privatization. Show nested quote +(PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming) If government had little money to give and little power to make and break the rules, what benefit would business get corrupting it? Dumb irrational pity those are all the signs of a weak argument voiced from passion not reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg
=> Creation of Correction Corporation of America: 1983. I'm sure you can read a graph.
http://thephoenix.com/Boston/News/73092-Freedom-watch-Jailhouse-bloc/?page=3#TOPCONTENT
It is, of course, in these private prisons' economic interests to see more people in prison serving longer sentences. And with current facilities bursting at the seams, times for this burgeoning industry are good. The country's largest private prison provider, the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), spent more than $2.7 million from 2006 through September 2008 on lobbying for stricter laws. Last year alone, the company, listed on the New York Stock Exchange, generated $133 million in net income.
http://diversityinc.com/investigative-series/who-profits-from-the-prison-boom/
"For decades, the Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and other private-prison companies have been active members of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), a powerful lobby based in Washington, D.C., responsible for numerous laws that have put millions of people behind bars."
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=867
Consider the growth of the Corrections Corporation of America, the industry leader whose stock price has climbed from $8 a share in 1992 to about $30 today and whose revenue rose by 81 per cent in 1995 alone. Investors in Wackenhut Corrections Corp. have enjoyed an average return of 18 per cent during the past five years and the company is rated by Forbes as one of the top 200 small businesses in the country. At Esmor, another big private prison contractor, revenues have soared from $4.6 million in 1990 to more than $25 million in 1995.
Ten years ago there were just five privately-run prisons in the country, housing a population of 2,000. Today nearly a score of private firms run more than 100 prisons with about 62,000 beds. That's still less than five per cent of the total market but the industry is expanding fast, with the number of private prison beds expected to grow to 360,000 during the next decade.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison–industrial_complex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrections_Corporation_of_America
Anything else?
On November 13 2011 10:23 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 05:09 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 13 2011 03:57 Millitron wrote:On November 12 2011 22:47 Biff The Understudy wrote:On November 12 2011 11:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start. well it does take two to tango. there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself. you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution. Funny you don't get it. In France we have proportionally TEN TIMES less prisoners than the US. Why? Because nobody is making pressure on the parliament and the judges, and do hardcore lobbying like pigs to make more and more repressive laws, because nobody has interest to increase the number of prisoners (and no, it's not some Keynesian evil plot by government and unions to create employment by making huge prison public sector. How do you manage not to laugh by writing things THAT dumb?) In America, prison are for profit, therefore you have groups that spend 400 million dollars a year in lobbying so that politicians make more and more repressive laws, and surprise! People and groups with money are influential and you end up with people going to jail for life because they had some bad stuff on their computer. You blame the government. You shouldn't. That's precisely because your government is weak and vulnerable to your almighty corporations that things like that happen. You should blame the ones that make pressure on the government, and the absence of laws that should prevent these same people to do wild lobbying. Pity, you do exactly the opposite, all day long. Conclusions: don't privatize prisons and the problem is fucking solved. (PS: and no, the problem is NOT that government want to spend more money by putting more people in jail because you know, they want to spend more money. Just preventing the dumb irrational reasoning that is obviously coming) Well, it IS partly some Keynesian plot. Building prisons IS an easy way to boost employment. That's not all of it, there are lobbying interests with huge amounts of money to spend on it, but you can't blame ONLY them. Who goes to jail for bribery? It's not only the person paying the bribe; the person accepting it is just as guilty. Do you want me to facepalm to death? France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> much more "keynesian", socialist, or whatever you want than the US France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> prison sector not privatized France, Germany, Italy, etc... ===> 0,07% people in jail against 1% in US Conclusion: people are not put in jail to create artificially employment, but because it benefits a for-profit industry. Seriously, just the fact that you can believe something like that leaves me speechless. I agreed with you. I totally agree that lobbying is a big part of it. Its not the whole story though; politicians jump at any chance to spend money, because its an easy way to show the voters that they're involved. Saying ONLY lobbyists are to blame is like only punishing the guy who solicited a hit-man, while letting the hit-man go free.
Politicians struggle like hell to pay for social services such as education and health services. They don't even have money to fix your broken and obsolete infrastructures. If you think they spend money just for fun by throwing it in a useless and unproductive industry because people want more taxes, you should maybe stop watching Fox News and get other referents than Glenn Beck.
Now, people who have invented and supported this "law and order" shit are precisely the one who have privatized prisons. Namely, the Republicans, under Reagan and afterward.
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Some of the replies in this thread really make me ashamed to live on this planet.
He could of just gone out and killed a child, and would probably have a less harsh sentence.
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I must admit, it weirds me out saying this, but I too think this is an overreaction. In the interview it states he has no idea how the pictures came to be on his computer. Okay, it's probably a lie, but unless it can be proven that he willingly downloaded those things, he shouldn't even get the minimum penalty. And 20ish years seem more then enough for me, as long as there is no direct offence.
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An emotional issue where the punishment doesn't come close to fitting the crime. Any issues related with child pornography are always vastly blown out of proportion. He could have killed or raped a child and gotten off with a smaller sentence.
This is a disgrace that set's a worrying precedent - sentencing via manipulation of the emotions of the masses.
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On November 14 2011 01:43 ThePinkFloyd wrote:
I must admit, it weirds me out saying this, but I too think this is an overreaction. In the interview it states he has no idea how the pictures came to be on his computer. Okay, it's probably a lie, but unless it can be proven that he willingly downloaded those things, he shouldn't even get the minimum penalty. And 20ish years seem more then enough for me, as long as there is no direct offence.
What the fuck? You realize what 20 years is?
Now, just make a fucking effort, just think, and imagine that now you go to jail for 20 years. Your life is destroyed. You won't marry. You won't have kids. You won't study. You won't have a job. Your parents will be dead when you get out. And you will have spent 2 fucking decades in a ultra violent monstrous environment. So on top of that you'll be seriously traumatized when, at 45, you finally get out to end up you miserable and wasted life.
You talk of 20 ish years as if it was nothing. I think you just don't think. I hope you don't think.
This guy should take 3 years at most, which is already a lot considering that all he did is to get stupid stuff on the net. 3 years is an enormous punishment already. That's like, between now and god damn 2015. A judge who is not an idiot or a criminal would give him few months or a year in jail, and twice more of provisional sentence.
The judge who did that and the idiots who agreed just don't have a soul.
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That's if you survive. 20 years for child porn is 20 years of being raped and beaten if you're lucky not to be stabbed.
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On November 12 2011 11:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +But anyway, one has to be fucking dumb to even have the idea of privatizing prisons, huhu?
I'm sure you'll come with a twisty reasoning explaining why it's because government is too important, though. It will be tough, but I'm sure you'll make it Saying that it's politicians who make it attractive instead of corporation that corrupt / influence politicians is a good place to start. well it does take two to tango. there's usually a family or personal connection going on at the local level for the construction / maintenance and a union connection since the new jobs will undoubtedly be union jobs. also the state government provides money with little oversight on how the locals spend it, as long as a prison gets built. and then since there's this new concentration of convicts local police start saying they need more money; it builds on itself. you can't end pigs overfeeding at the government trough if the government has the food and the inclination to feed indiscriminately. moderate government's hunger to throw more money at any problem and you're a third of the way to a solution.
Awesome strawman. I'm sure it's a matter of fact that governments barely oversee the spending.
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On November 13 2011 23:54 Westy wrote:
Some of the replies in this thread really make me ashamed to live on this planet.
He could of just gone out and killed a child, and would probably have a less harsh sentence.
The thing is that most of the people would rather someone be "HELPED" and corrected/cured if you will as to sweeping the mess under the carpet if you know what I mean. Most people would like it dealt with and dealt with properly and I'm not going to get into equality of sexes but really I do hope you understand.
If not just take a good moment to think about it, place yourself or a friend in a similar situation because not all sicknesses are visible most people feel cornered or trapped where there is no escape, making it increasingly difficult to make it out on your own.
For example mine Schizophrenia I had to go to the doctor my self after years and years of hiding (My doctor was surprised himself) at some point I knew there was a problem I started in November 2007 trying to get help and only now 2011 am I getting it and still struggling with it but remember I had to do this on my own most people never get any help it's not something that people ask about everyday most people don't care. So when I ask someone how are you, I really mean it when I ask not gonna listen and say oh after a heart felt explanation I'm gonna get involved on some level.
If there is something that I dislike about this site is the lack of engagement. All I really tend to read are the most dodgy, cowardly and afraid to commit excuses at times. Men are engaging real men are engaging and hardly make excuses we also think through logic reason and understanding please utilize these tools more and you can understand people better.
Finally he got caught and sent away for life, right now I'd say a great majority think it's right and the others wrong not gonna bash the legal system it's a circus anything we don't like can or dislike can happen. What needs to be done now is take preventative measures like having guards in place so a bank robbery is not attempted that metaphor yes I like it. Now I don't have all the ideas but people themselves or at least communities can come up with ways to spot things as these. Education really helps in these moments as a tool for good!
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EPT
