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On another note, judging from the bolded part..
2004: Aransas County Court-At-Law Judge William Adams took a belt to his own teenage daughter as punishment for using the internet to acquire music and games that were unavailable for legal purchase at the time. She has had ataxic cerebral palsy from birth that led her to a passion for technology, which was strictly forbidden by her father's backwards views. The judge's wife was emotionally abused herself and was severely manipulated into assisting the beating and should not be blamed for any content in this video. The judge's wife has since left the marriage due to the abuse, which continues to this day, and has sincerely apologized and repented for her part and for allowing such a thing, long before this video was even revealed to exist. Judge William Adams is not fit to be anywhere near the law system if he can't even exercise fit judgement as a parent himself. Do not allow this man to ever be re-elected again. His "judgement" is a giant farce. Signed, Hillary Adams, his daughter.
I'm so hoping that this woman finds the courage to move forward. The way she acts in that video is similar to what I've seen from young adults (though she's clearly older than that =P) who have been abused themselves put into the position of the "punisher". The whole "I try to somehow make it not that bad but I'm kinda helpless at that task."
On one hand she tries to "de-escalate" by hitting her instead of the father (since she only hits once and not on the legs/random spots I'm excluding that she "wants a piece of the cake"), but everything is not in a mercyfull or loving context but in a cold and calculated way. The second her husband talks to her she agrees with him to 100% (beaten into submission already?) and shifts all blame towards her daughter.
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cant wait till hes in prison and his little buddies are telling HIM to bend over the bed
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And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy.
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On November 02 2011 12:49 Geosensation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:45 socommaster123 wrote:On November 02 2011 12:36 Geosensation wrote:On November 02 2011 12:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On November 02 2011 12:30 Geosensation wrote:On November 02 2011 12:26 r.Evo wrote:On November 02 2011 12:22 Geosensation wrote:
Glad to see a bit more sense here on TL compared to youtube and reddit. Disciplining your children like this may not be considered the right way to parent now, but it is perfectly legal. I snooped around the Texas Attorney General's website on child abuse and found this:
The law specifically excludes “reasonable” discipline by the child’s parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law. An act or omission is abusive only if “observable and material impairment” occurs as a result, or if it causes “substantial harm,” or exposes the child to risk of substantial harm.
Doesn't seem to me like it caused substantial harm or material impairment. YES it is hard to watch and pretty cruel, but parents have the discretion to discipline their children as they see fit.
Also it's just a belt, not a bat. It's not like he's going to kill her or break all the bones in her body. It's superficial harm.
He doesn't deserve to get thrown in jail, disbarred, or any other punishment because he has done nothing illegal based on the video alone. Stop freaking out everyone.
If I slap an adult in the face on the street, will he hit me back? Most likely. If a teacher hits a kid with the flat hand in the face to "teach him/her a lesson", will it go all over the place and will the teacher face consequences? Yes, most likely. If I beat my kid with a belt, multiple times just for the fun of it (HE KEEPS FUCKING COMING BACK IN FOR MORE. THEY USE TWO FUCKING BELTS AT ONE POINT), I can get away with it because "it was reasonable"? If that's the law, the law has to be changed. Why? Because it's inhumane. Plain and simple. So you feel like parents should be told by the government how to raise their kids? I'm sorry I just don't agree with that. The parent/child relationship is a special one and is treated as such by the law. If the government starts telling parents they can't discipline their children reasonably then the next thing you know children are suing their parents when they don't let them go to a concert they wanted or because they grounded them for a weekend for breaking some rule they set down. Sorry if it seems harsh to you but that's the way it is. How do we go from "Cant beat child with belt" to "Cant tell children what to do"? There's a fucking enormous middle ground that we just magically teleported across to get to where you think we would be. It's a slippery slope example. The point is to show how the enormous middle ground will be eroded if what seems wrong, but is not unreasonable, is forbidden. I don't agree with parents using corporal punishment on their children but it's about as natural as any other form of parenting. I don't think the government should be getting involved in parenting when it isn't clear abuse which could result in actual harm to a child. side note: Hi Jinro <3 u Yea having 2 people beat their kids butt with 2 belts and coming back in over and over... Then Threatening that if she "looks at him wrong" or "raises her voice" to him or his wife He will be excited to beat her ass again. He threatens her and admits to enjoying beating her... Youre a sick fuck there is no middle ground with beating your daughter and threatening her. Wooah slow down on the personal attack there, I'm not defending him, just explaining my understanding of the law that governs the parent/child relationship.
I get where you're coming from. However, my point is: If what's shown in that video is legal and will go unpunished by law, the law has to be changed. Plain and simple.
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On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy.
....he beat the shit out of her for using a computer. how is that getting off easy?
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Canada5155 Posts
On November 02 2011 12:30 Geosensation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:26 r.Evo wrote:On November 02 2011 12:22 Geosensation wrote:
Glad to see a bit more sense here on TL compared to youtube and reddit. Disciplining your children like this may not be considered the right way to parent now, but it is perfectly legal. I snooped around the Texas Attorney General's website on child abuse and found this:
The law specifically excludes “reasonable” discipline by the child’s parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law. An act or omission is abusive only if “observable and material impairment” occurs as a result, or if it causes “substantial harm,” or exposes the child to risk of substantial harm.
Doesn't seem to me like it caused substantial harm or material impairment. YES it is hard to watch and pretty cruel, but parents have the discretion to discipline their children as they see fit.
Also it's just a belt, not a bat. It's not like he's going to kill her or break all the bones in her body. It's superficial harm.
He doesn't deserve to get thrown in jail, disbarred, or any other punishment because he has done nothing illegal based on the video alone. Stop freaking out everyone.
If I slap an adult in the face on the street, will he hit me back? Most likely. If a teacher hits a kid with the flat hand in the face to "teach him/her a lesson", will it go all over the place and will the teacher face consequences? Yes, most likely. If I beat my kid with a belt, multiple times just for the fun of it (HE KEEPS FUCKING COMING BACK IN FOR MORE. THEY USE TWO FUCKING BELTS AT ONE POINT), I can get away with it because "it was reasonable"? If that's the law, the law has to be changed. Why? Because it's inhumane. Plain and simple. So you feel like parents should be told by the government how to raise their kids?
Yes?
There are certain things that the defence of "raising my kids" does not protect. That claim has always been absurd to me. "They're my kids and the government should butt out."
This is such a dehumanizing claim. One would make this same argument for how they handle their personal property. "It's my land and I can do what I want with it."
The difference between what you do with and on your private property and how you raise your child is that the latter is a human being. They eventually come of age and enter society. It is public concern.
Obviously, how a child is raised greatly impacts how they conduct themselves when they grow up. It needs to be done "properly."
What's proper in this case? Very debatable, but "humane" is probably one word I'd assume most people would agree upon.
Sticking your genitals together with someone else and making a child does not suddenly deem you to be an authority on what is the best way to raise a child. If beating is okay as a form of punishment, why not sexual abuse? Every time you disobey, daddy sticks it in you? Putting it that way is pretty graphic, yes, but do we not treat assault and sexual abuse as crimes among human beings in any other context?
This isn't a matter of how they turn out; there is an immediate wrong in the assault of a person. Why is it a defence to say, "This is how I raise my kids and the government should butt out!"
The point here is that this is a matter of public concern. Children are both human and citizens of the country they are in. The reason they are deprived of basic rights, such as the security of person, is a matter of cultural customs.
When else is custom a good reason to assault someone?
I've already discussed this, but I can see no reasonable argument in favour of corporal punishment as an effective way to teach children.
If it's not absolutely necessary to raising a child, why do we allow this infringement of rights to persist? Many people are effectively raised without being beaten. I can see no reasonable answer to this question.
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On November 02 2011 12:54 hytonight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy. ....he beat the shit out of her for using a computer. how is that getting off easy?
you're missing a point, in a household breaking the rules is breaking the rules now i have no idea about what went on before this incident or how it escalated to that point but rules are rules man and sometimes u have to lay them down. whether its for taking a cookie from the shelf or getting expelled from school
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On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy.
Honestly it's not the physical acts that bother me as much as the whole psychology of it. The fact that he is using his daughter as a punching bag to let out his anger. This is how 6-year-olds should be dealing with anger, not grown men who are supposed to be role models for their children.
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On November 02 2011 12:50 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:44 MaGariShun wrote:
You are making a far too big deal out of this. I was kinda disturbed by it too, when I first skimmed over it, but on a second view-through you can clearly see how the situation evolved. He is never aiming to injure or permanently hurt her (only hits her legs because she refuses to turn around). It is clear he stepped over the line and it is not good practice especially on a 16 year old to do this kind of thing, but you can't tell people how to raise their children. Even the mother seems to disagree with how he handles the situation (she takes the belt herself and tries to get the daughter to turn around by talking to her and then spanks her only once).
We don't have any information about how often this argument had already come up and how it was handled. Maybe violence was his last resort after they had tried to resolve the matter "normally". Why did she make the video? She apparently knew this was gonna happen, but was it because he always handles arguments that way and abused her before, or was it because he threatened her with it and she still disobeyed knowing what would happen to then tape it? Did he regret his actions afterwards? Did he maybe even apologize? Was this the only time this happened?
I'm not jumping to any conclusions and neither should you. I certainly wouldn't do such things to my kids if I had any, but saying things like he should be executed/raped/killed/whatever are way overboard. I agree that he should at least be confronted publicly so he probably has to give up his career, but no hard legal action should be taken. I almost never (probably like 2 times in my whole childhood, like when I repeatedly called my mother a bitch or such hard cases) got physically punished by my parents, but I know I had particularly loving and caring parents. I know a lot of people in my age who did not have that fortune and they are not "forever scarred" or something. Most of our parents probably were raised with physical punishment and they turned out mentally healthy and with good relationships to their own parents. As long as things like this remain an exception and are not part of the regular family life, I don't see how it is that big of a deal. Yeah. Not a big deal at all.
I'm not defending him, I too think that he stepped way overboard. My point is you can't judge him with the information we have. Besides, he does not actually hit her in the face even after she still refuses to turn around. He seems kind of sadistic, but once again, you can't judge that from one video without any other information.
EDIT: I am sorry, I hadn't read the paragraph with the explanation. That of course changes a lot. Throw that dick in jail!
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That sissy, wouldn't ever be caught in a fare fight. Hes just a bully abusing his power in a situation where its no contest.
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And this is just a judge, go up the ladder, and with the increasing power and how it maddens people, you'll get even sicker crimes and behaviour.
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I just don't get from where do people even get the idea of hitting a child being right. Causing physical harm to another adult is illegal, but for some reason children's human rights should be constricted? Children are weaker, i.e. more likely to get hurt and less able to fight back.
Didn't look at the video, don't care for it. I've gotten my share of beatings and seen my siblings get theirs too (with each end of the belt, to give you a nice image  ). I don't care about my mother at all, we just kind-of get along. I don't hate her or want revenge - I did as a teenager though - but I just want to be away from her and forget about her as much as possible. So much for the "special relationship" parents and children have...I don't have them and I've grown up to believe that family connections don't matter - I can choose my friends, not my family.
EDIT: Btw anyone who says people should be physically punished for physically punishing their children still don't get the idea imo.
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I got beat with a cane as a kid. (asian, go figure) While I agree parents should be able to discipline their kids in their own methods, assuming the girl's medical condition is true (also factoring the age), then the methods should be appropriate as well.
Why is the dad doing the beating though.. i mean men can exert much more force than women.. jeez it does look like abuse.
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On November 02 2011 12:56 HawaiianPig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:30 Geosensation wrote:On November 02 2011 12:26 r.Evo wrote:On November 02 2011 12:22 Geosensation wrote:
Glad to see a bit more sense here on TL compared to youtube and reddit. Disciplining your children like this may not be considered the right way to parent now, but it is perfectly legal. I snooped around the Texas Attorney General's website on child abuse and found this:
The law specifically excludes “reasonable” discipline by the child’s parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law. An act or omission is abusive only if “observable and material impairment” occurs as a result, or if it causes “substantial harm,” or exposes the child to risk of substantial harm.
Doesn't seem to me like it caused substantial harm or material impairment. YES it is hard to watch and pretty cruel, but parents have the discretion to discipline their children as they see fit.
Also it's just a belt, not a bat. It's not like he's going to kill her or break all the bones in her body. It's superficial harm.
He doesn't deserve to get thrown in jail, disbarred, or any other punishment because he has done nothing illegal based on the video alone. Stop freaking out everyone.
If I slap an adult in the face on the street, will he hit me back? Most likely. If a teacher hits a kid with the flat hand in the face to "teach him/her a lesson", will it go all over the place and will the teacher face consequences? Yes, most likely. If I beat my kid with a belt, multiple times just for the fun of it (HE KEEPS FUCKING COMING BACK IN FOR MORE. THEY USE TWO FUCKING BELTS AT ONE POINT), I can get away with it because "it was reasonable"? If that's the law, the law has to be changed. Why? Because it's inhumane. Plain and simple. So you feel like parents should be told by the government how to raise their kids? Yes? There are certain things that the defence of "raising my kids" does not protect. That claim has always been absurd to me. "They're my kids and the government should butt out." This is such a dehumanizing claim. One would make this same argument for how they handle their personal property. "It's my land and I can do what I want with it." The difference between what you do with and on your private property is different than how you raise your kid. Children are human beings. They eventually come of age and enter society. It is public concern. Obviously, how a child is raised greatly impacts how they conduct themselves when they grow up. It needs to be done "properly." What's proper in this case? Very debatable, but "humane" is probably one word I'd assume most people would agree upon. Sticking your genitals together with someone else and making a child does not suddenly deem you to be an authority on what is the best way to raise a child. If beating is okay as a form of punishment, why not sexual abuse? Every time you disobey, daddy sticks it in you? Putting it that way is pretty graphic, yes, but do we not treat assault and sexual abuse as crimes among human beings otherwise? This isn't a matter of how they turn out; there is an immediate wrong in the assault of a person. Why is it a defence to say, "This is how I raise my kids and the government should butt out!" The point here is that this is a matter of public concern. Children are both human and citizens of the country they are in. The reason they are deprived of basic rights, such as the security of person, is a matter of cultural customs. When else is custom a good reason to assault someone? I've already discussed this, but I can see no reasonable argument in favour of corporal punishment as an effective way to teach children. If it's not absolutely necessary to raising a child, why do we allow this infringement of rights to persist? Many people are effectively raised without being beaten. I can see no reasonable answer to this question.
I'm having a huge fanboy boner for you right now, HawaiianPig.
Thanks for putting your thoughts into words in that way. <3
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HawaiianPig's post pretty much wins the thread in my view, so I won't bother to repeat it.
However, I will throw in my personal experience: My father used corporal punishment on me up until I was about 12~13 (don't remember exactly) and it didn't work at all. Instead, it turned me into a really fucking good liar and ruined my relationship with my father.
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On November 02 2011 12:56 pandaBee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:54 hytonight wrote:On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy. ....he beat the shit out of her for using a computer. how is that getting off easy? you're missing a point, in a household breaking the rules is breaking the rules now i have no idea about what went on before this incident or how it escalated to that point but rules are rules man and sometimes u have to lay them down. whether its for taking a cookie from the shelf or getting expelled from school
im pretty sure you are missing the point here.
he beat the shit out of her.....for playing internet games. thats not "laying down the law," thats beating the shit out of her.
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On November 02 2011 12:53 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:49 Geosensation wrote:On November 02 2011 12:45 socommaster123 wrote:On November 02 2011 12:36 Geosensation wrote:On November 02 2011 12:31 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On November 02 2011 12:30 Geosensation wrote:On November 02 2011 12:26 r.Evo wrote:On November 02 2011 12:22 Geosensation wrote:
Glad to see a bit more sense here on TL compared to youtube and reddit. Disciplining your children like this may not be considered the right way to parent now, but it is perfectly legal. I snooped around the Texas Attorney General's website on child abuse and found this:
The law specifically excludes “reasonable” discipline by the child’s parent, guardian, or conservator; corporal punishment is not in itself abusive under the law. An act or omission is abusive only if “observable and material impairment” occurs as a result, or if it causes “substantial harm,” or exposes the child to risk of substantial harm.
Doesn't seem to me like it caused substantial harm or material impairment. YES it is hard to watch and pretty cruel, but parents have the discretion to discipline their children as they see fit.
Also it's just a belt, not a bat. It's not like he's going to kill her or break all the bones in her body. It's superficial harm.
He doesn't deserve to get thrown in jail, disbarred, or any other punishment because he has done nothing illegal based on the video alone. Stop freaking out everyone.
If I slap an adult in the face on the street, will he hit me back? Most likely. If a teacher hits a kid with the flat hand in the face to "teach him/her a lesson", will it go all over the place and will the teacher face consequences? Yes, most likely. If I beat my kid with a belt, multiple times just for the fun of it (HE KEEPS FUCKING COMING BACK IN FOR MORE. THEY USE TWO FUCKING BELTS AT ONE POINT), I can get away with it because "it was reasonable"? If that's the law, the law has to be changed. Why? Because it's inhumane. Plain and simple. So you feel like parents should be told by the government how to raise their kids? I'm sorry I just don't agree with that. The parent/child relationship is a special one and is treated as such by the law. If the government starts telling parents they can't discipline their children reasonably then the next thing you know children are suing their parents when they don't let them go to a concert they wanted or because they grounded them for a weekend for breaking some rule they set down. Sorry if it seems harsh to you but that's the way it is. How do we go from "Cant beat child with belt" to "Cant tell children what to do"? There's a fucking enormous middle ground that we just magically teleported across to get to where you think we would be. It's a slippery slope example. The point is to show how the enormous middle ground will be eroded if what seems wrong, but is not unreasonable, is forbidden. I don't agree with parents using corporal punishment on their children but it's about as natural as any other form of parenting. I don't think the government should be getting involved in parenting when it isn't clear abuse which could result in actual harm to a child. side note: Hi Jinro <3 u Yea having 2 people beat their kids butt with 2 belts and coming back in over and over... Then Threatening that if she "looks at him wrong" or "raises her voice" to him or his wife He will be excited to beat her ass again. He threatens her and admits to enjoying beating her... Youre a sick fuck there is no middle ground with beating your daughter and threatening her. Wooah slow down on the personal attack there, I'm not defending him, just explaining my understanding of the law that governs the parent/child relationship. I get where you're coming from. However, my point is: If what's shown in that video is legal and will go unpunished by law, the law has to be changed. Plain and simple.
The great thing about the law is that we don't change it based on an emotional response to something that seems atrocious. Very smart people reasonably consider the ramifications of changing the law on a macro level and work from there. I just don't think the potential negatives outweigh the positives. Some food for thought: Most domestic abuse goes unreported out of fear of the consequences. So the consequences of changing the law to punish all corporal punishment from parents to children will all be the negative ones which degrade the authority of parents, while those who deserve to be punished will escape justice because they threaten the victims into submission.
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On November 02 2011 12:56 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy. Honestly it's not the physical acts that bother me as much as the whole psychology of it. The fact that he is using his daughter as a punching bag to let out his anger. This is how 6-year-olds should be dealing with anger, not grown men who are supposed to be role models for their children.
daughter breaks rules >>> daddy gets angry >>> booty spanking
i don't think there's a problem with this.
daddy gets angry >> finds excuse to booty spank daughter >> finds excuse >> booty spanking
this is a different matter entirely and i would argue that the process above is "wrong"
but how do u know that it was the 2nd and not the 1st process?
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On November 02 2011 13:00 hytonight wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 12:56 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 12:54 hytonight wrote:On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy. ....he beat the shit out of her for using a computer. how is that getting off easy? you're missing a point, in a household breaking the rules is breaking the rules now i have no idea about what went on before this incident or how it escalated to that point but rules are rules man and sometimes u have to lay them down. whether its for taking a cookie from the shelf or getting expelled from school im pretty sure you are missing the point here. he beat the shit out of her.....for playing internet games. thats not "laying down the law," thats beating the shit out of her.
it would be just "beating the shit out of her" if he didn't specify that she was not supposed to play internet games
but how do u know that there was never such a mentioning?
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On November 02 2011 13:01 pandaBee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 13:00 hytonight wrote:On November 02 2011 12:56 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 12:54 hytonight wrote:On November 02 2011 12:52 pandaBee wrote:
And why is a 16 yo girl getting a booty spanking a big deal? spanking is getting off easy. ....he beat the shit out of her for using a computer. how is that getting off easy? you're missing a point, in a household breaking the rules is breaking the rules now i have no idea about what went on before this incident or how it escalated to that point but rules are rules man and sometimes u have to lay them down. whether its for taking a cookie from the shelf or getting expelled from school im pretty sure you are missing the point here. he beat the shit out of her.....for playing internet games. thats not "laying down the law," thats beating the shit out of her. it would be just "beating the shit out of her" if he didn't specify that she was not supposed to play internet games but how do u know that there was never such a mentioning?
so he has to threaten her before he can beat the shit out of her..then its justified.
good to know
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EPT
