EPTDouble standards?
Opinions on ban of shark fin - Page 8
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SolidGasPro
93 Posts
Double standards? | ||
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
On October 26 2011 20:41 PolSC2 wrote: What in the WORLD are those used for...? Tiger penises are claimed to be aphrodisiacs (Surprise! Surprise!), although there is no scientific proof for that. Bear bile contains ursodeoxycholic acid which reduces cholesterol absorption, but bears are kept in small cages and have holes punctured in their gall bladders to "milk" them of bile, which causes wounds to get infected and pus accumulate with the bile, resulting in even more delectable bile! Also, in case some people think shark's fin is an important part of the Chinese historical traditions, it isn't. Shark's fin became popular among some of the really affluent during the late 18th century, but it only spread widely, especially to the rising middle class, in the last century. So it is actually a relatively recent trend, not some ancient tradition. | ||
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kidcrash
United States620 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:12 Williammm wrote: I'm not saying they don't feel pain. I'm saying why should that matter, and why are we applying human emotions and concepts to another species whom we deem as food. You're comparing within species killing as oppose to the act of killing for food. Two completely different things. As I said before, it's just something we apply to other living things to make us feel better. Whether I prefer lethal injection or what not performed by ANOTHER human is a completely different issue. I, in that situation am not dehumanised in anyway. So as long as I'm perceived as humanity to the murderer, the humane killing concept applies. As soon as dehumanisation occurs, your end result is something akin to genocide and holocaust, brutal killings etc. Horrible thing because they're still people to me, but the question is why are you trying to make the sharks out like humans? They're just food, and the moment you deny they're food you're just kidding yourself. You've got to be kidding me. What we deem as food is completely subjective. Maybe I think your pet dog is a delicacy? What if I chopped off his legs and "released" him back into his environment? Your whole post is basically a justification for animal abuse and it kind of sickens me. | ||
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PolSC2
United States634 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:23 hippocritical wrote: There is no ban on harvesting the shark itself, it's a ban on consumption. Two very different things that are being banned. Fisherman are still allowed to fish for it, just that people aren't allowed to eat it in that part of Canada. Do you think the people eating it support the harvesting methods themselves? Indirectly. Meaning, they couldn't care less as long as they have their soup. At least that's my opinion. | ||
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Rarak
Australia631 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:23 hippocritical wrote: There is no ban on harvesting the shark itself, it's a ban on consumption. Two very different things that are being banned. Fisherman are still allowed to fish for it, just that people aren't allowed to eat it in that part of Canada. Do you think the people eating it support the harvesting methods themselves? Well given that they know how it is harvested and their demand for it fuels the fishing i would say yes. | ||
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Rarak
Australia631 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:25 SolidGasPro wrote: Nobody cares about the many slain pigs and chickens abundant in our everyday menu, but if we talk about Asians slaying sharks or kittens everybody freaks out. Double standards? Way to miss the point. Chicken are bred for food, and the whole chicken is generally consumed. Wild sharks are killed for their fins, screwing with the ecosystem and a complete waste of the animal. | ||
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thesideshow
930 Posts
On Oct 26 2011 13:25<span style='color:#d20000'> (6 min)</span> SolidGasPro wrote: Nobody cares about the many slain pigs and chickens abundant in our everyday menu, but if we talk about Asians slaying sharks or kittens everybody freaks out. Double standards? To be fair asians slay as many pigs and chickens as westerners do. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
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SolidGasPro
93 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:30 Rarak wrote: Way to miss the point. Chicken are bred for food, and the whole chicken is generally consumed. Wild sharks are killed for their fins, screwing with the ecosystem and a complete waste of the animal. No, sir, you miss the point. So, while we eat the whole chicken or pig, and just 5% of the shark do you say there are less chicken kills compared to shark kills? Only richest Chinese people eat shark fins on special occasions, while the whole world eats chicken and pork multiple times a day. | ||
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
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Railxp
Hong Kong1313 Posts
I dont for a moment support finning. I dont particularly enjoy the taste of this "delicacy". I dont give two rats ass about this "tradition". Shark fin soup is not much of a tradition to begin with, and it doesnt hold jack significance either. A large part of it has always been just a show of wealth and a mix of arrogance and superficial courtesy to guests. Unarguably the practice is brutal, wasteful, and atrocious. That being said, the money in banning should go into education. Culling the demand is the key. This particular demand is artificially and socially inflated to begin with, so kill it in its social roots. Just play that video in every school in china, and it should be enough. Banning is horrible because it gives the illusion that a problem is solved, when it really isn't. People think HERPDEDERP, WE BANNED IT SO NOW PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED :D. and then sweep it under the rug and forget about it. No it damn well isn't, and you're kidding yourself if you think you've managed to change anything in the long run. | ||
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SolidGasPro
93 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:33 Pangpootata wrote: Chicken/Pig farming is sustainable and does not do much ecological damage, while shark farming is just the opposite of that. Don't get why people still keep using these false analogies. Because a big point of shark fin ban is the cruel way a shark is killed! But OK, if you're bread in a farm you have no soul so OK to kill you chicken/pig... Again, double standards? | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32075 Posts
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PolSC2
United States634 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:35 Railxp wrote: Fuck banning shit. You're going to get the contrary effect. Its gonna jack up the prices even more, driving it underground. Banning it in Canada kills the consumption market there, but theres unlimited chinese people, so they'll just ship the stuff elsewhere, and not cull the actual killing of sharks. If you think banning something will get you anywhere, you're wrong and fail to realize social problems only get worse from single dimensioned approaches. I dont for a moment support finning. I dont particularly enjoy the taste of this "delicacy". I dont give two rats ass about this "tradition". Shark fin soup is not much of a tradition to begin with, and it doesnt hold jack significance either. A large part of it has always been just a show of wealth and a mix of arrogance and superficial courtesy to guests. Unarguably the practice is brutal, wasteful, and atrocious. That being said, the money in banning should go into education. Culling the demand is the key. This particular demand is artificially and socially inflated to begin with, so kill it in its social roots. Just play that video in every school in china, and it should be enough. Banning is horrible because it gives the illusion that a problem is solved, when it really isn't. People think HERPDEDERP, WE BANNED IT SO NOW PROBLEM FUCKING SOLVED :D. and then sweep it under the rug and forget about it. No it damn well isn't, and you're kidding yourself if you think you've managed to change anything in the long run. It's just one step... the banning of it. What do you think they should have done first, or think that they should do now? You getting mad that they banned it makes absolutely no sense. | ||
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hippocritical
Australia465 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:27 Rarak wrote: Well given that they know how it is harvested and their demand for it fuels the fishing i would say yes. You assume that they know, which I think in itself is a big assumption. If you have looked at the Gordon Ramsay vid, he interviews some the patrons and they don't know the practice involved in getting the fin itself. What I'm trying to say is, it isn't a concern that harvesting is morally wrong, a lot of morally wrong animal abuse happens in making food; what should be the concern is the dwindling population. Given the nature of the shark fin itself, a ban on the consumption is not a deterrent, it should be a ban on the supply is what I'm trying to say. Or at least a quota set in place, it is not the consumer that actively support it, they support it because they want the fin soup. It's the fishing practices that are a bit sketchy, and I'm sure the result would be a lot better if they did something about the regulation involving fishing for sharks. | ||
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kidcrash
United States620 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:32 Blasterion wrote: I understand what the Canadians are trying to do, and I don't really disagree what they are doing, Hell I don't mind if they raised the price, banning is just no good, If it gets more expensive less and less people will want to buy them, but They shouldn't ban it, that's just terrible of them. To sacrifice human culture for animal benefits I guess if torturing animals is your idea of culture. It's a silly status symbol rooted in an unethical practice which needs to be banned as soon as possible. | ||
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Draconicfire
Canada2562 Posts
First off, let me just say that I love sharks. Sharks are awesome, and I get as giddy as any nerd when Shark Week comes up. It also makes me sad when I hear about how Sharks are getting hunted for their fins and essentially being dumped back into the ocean to die after getting finned. That said, I still enjoy shark fin. Do I feel like something needs to be done about the current situation of harvesting fins? Yea, I do. But, I don't think banning consumption is the right way to do it. I feel that here is a difference from eating an animal hunted environmentally responsibly and the brutal slaughter of animals for food. We should be trying harder to try to find a way to be able to eat sharks for food without damaging the ecosystem. I know that's hard, but it doesn't seem fair to just outright banning such a staple part of traditional Chinese cuisine. I mean, the Japanese and Aboriginal populations still hunt whales for meat even though they're endangered and protected. Why can't we just do something like that for sharks? Overall I just feel like essentially trying to sever and outright kill a piece of culture isn't the right way to go, we need to protect the sharks, yea, but there has to be some other way. | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
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Pangpootata
1838 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:36 SolidGasPro wrote: Because a big point of shark fin ban is the cruel way a shark is killed! But OK, if you're bread in a farm you have no soul so OK to kill you chicken/pig... Again, double standards? Yes, you can argue that both chicken/pig farming and shark farming are cruel. But the point is that it is still a false analogy because shark farming does huge damage to the ecosystem and is unsustainable. I said shark farming is A, but chicken/pig farming is not A, yet you counter by saying "but both of them are B". Logic much? | ||
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Williammm
Australia908 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:25 kidcrash wrote: You've got to be kidding me. What we deem as food is completely subjective. Maybe I think your pet dog is a delicacy? What if I chopped off his legs and "released" him back into his environment? Your whole post is basically a justification for animal abuse and it kind of sickens me. We are on the top of the food chain. Whatever we can eat is food. That's objective truth. The scenario you described is not only unlikely but it's quite removed from the subject. Do you hold some sort of bond with sharks or something? Concept of animal abuse is also subjective and doesn't apply when we're killing the animal for its resources. Like i said before, the moment you choose to kill an animal, no other moral or ethical issues come into play. Death is the definitive end. You're wrong for doing it. With that said, if we are killing for food or its other resources it is completely justified in today's free market society and also biologically speaking ( we are omnivores). Are you going to go vegetarian or vegan? if not, please kindly shut up. If you are, that is your lifestyle and your choice. don't impose your beliefs on other people or bring it up in a topic that doesn't apply to you. If you do happen to have a human connection with animals, good for you, and good day to you sir. | ||
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