On October 26 2011 18:17 Sasquatch wrote: I have no problem with people wanting to eat shark fin soup, but currently it is being harvested in a completely insane and unsustainable manner. Greed tends to ruin any good thing.
For reference, here's a piece Gordon Ramsay did on shark fin harvesting:
I never saw this video before, never "liked" Gordon Ramsay but seeing one of the worlds "best" ( or at least considered best ) chefs saying a delicacy has "no taste" is just as ignorant as a teen saying classical music sucks compared to the 21century pop music. It might be that shark fin soup is "wasteful" in terms of how much of the shark is actually used for something and you really need to have "acquired" a taste for it before you can actually justify the cost but banning it is just silly and i see no real reason for doing so. If you want to ban shark fishing/selling thats fine but banning a certain product... i can't fathom a good reason for that unless its a drug.
On October 26 2011 20:24 Williammm wrote: Banning due to sustainability issues, I can understand.
But anything like moral and ethical issues are just bullshit. There is no humane way to kill an animal. Killing is killing, and I know most people associate degrees of pain an animal feels to calculate the level of ethical responsibility and morality. Honestly though, why should that even matter. The moment you decide to kill a living thing, you've already breached issues of ethics and morality. Stop being so self righteous.
The reasons for the ban were justified assuming that they're true. /story
Are you saying animals don't feel pain? Would you like to have all your limbs cut off, then left to bleed out & die in the middle of the street? or would you prefer to have a lethal injection / gunshot to the head / anything else painless/instant.
Totally agree that killing is killing and it's already crossing ethical/moral lines, but saying 'there is no human way' to kill an animal is bullshit.
If they are going to run around killing sharks for their fins, at least stab it's brain, like any normal person who goes fishing.
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: But Chinese will defend anything China even if they actually disagree, apparently. Don't give me this fake loyalty.
The more I learn about China, the less I respect it.
Once again, an example of ignorance. Good Cantonese soup cost a lot of money to make. Even the soup my dad makes regularly costs $50-100 a pot.
Also, your comment makes no sense. He said no soup is worth more than 5 dollar. You call that ignorance. It's his fucking opinion. Your argument just proves his point. You are both wrong and ignorant as well as unable to understand the reasoning of others or express your own opinion using reasoning.
He's ignorant because he has never even tasted the soup before. Opinions can be ignorant.
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: Knowing the prize would spoil the taste when eating it. Especially when you realize the context is in a third world country.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: I hear the noises of Han Chinese bring good luck as a good luck charm. And the good news is, there's a Han Chinese for every one of us. Let's harvest them as a Chinese doesn't really need a nose. Immoral? Nooo, don't infringe on culture.
If that's your culture, then cool. Hunting Han chinese seems much more dangerous than hunting sharks though.
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: But Chinese will defend anything China even if they actually disagree, apparently. Don't give me this fake loyalty.
The more I learn about China, the less I respect it.
Once again, an example of ignorance. Good Cantonese soup cost a lot of money to make. Even the soup my dad makes regularly costs $50-100 a pot.
Also, your comment makes no sense. He said no soup is worth more than 5 dollar. You call that ignorance. It's his fucking opinion. Your argument just proves his point. You are both wrong and ignorant as well as unable to understand the reasoning of others or express your own opinion using reasoning.
He's ignorant because he has never even tasted the soup before. Opinions can be ignorant.
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: Knowing the prize would spoil the taste when eating it. Especially when you realize the context is in a third world country.
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: I hear the noises of Han Chinese bring good luck as a good luck charm. And the good news is, there's a Han Chinese for every one of us. Let's harvest them as a Chinese doesn't really need a nose. Immoral? Nooo, don't infringe on culture.
If that's your culture, then cool. Hunting Han chinese seems much more dangerous than hunting sharks though.
I believe he's saying China is a third world country. Could be wrong though, as I have no idea either. Lol
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: But Chinese will defend anything China even if they actually disagree, apparently. Don't give me this fake loyalty.
The more I learn about China, the less I respect it.
Whatever else you think about shark-finning, please turn down the Sinophobia. I wonder if those lines would have been nearly as palatable if the word China was replaced by America.
I get where they're getting at with this, and it's not like I disagree, but this really makes me very very sad, One of my favorite things going out the window
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: Knowing the prize would spoil the taste when eating it. Especially when you realize the context is in a third world country.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
I think what he's trying to say is that your enjoyment of the food will change once you know the value(price) of it.
I.e. If shark fin isn't so rare and expensive we might find it not as tasty as it is now. Talking about shark fin, many people think "Woon Zai Chee" tastes qutie similar to shark fin soup. If the price are similar for both, may people find that the shark fin soup is really tasty/good?
Edit: Sometimes I do think people eat shark fin soups not simply because of the taste becoz to show their socio-economical status etc
I come from South Africa and is it is an established historic fact that when twins were born in some Native African tribes (I will omit the tribe names, so that I do not offend) more than a century ago one was killed since it was believed that the weaker twin is draining the life of the stronger one. Do you thing these people knew that they were committing murder? No infact from their viewpoint it was love that motivated them. They wanted the strong one to survive.
Today this is not practiced since it is clearly wrong and not scientific. What if you tried to justify this old practice as a cultural heritage that spanned thousands of years? The point being cultural justifications aren't true justifications at all and never will be.
Thus the Chinese might feel Canada(Western if you will) are failing to see their perspective but is it not actually the other way around. They do not see the perspective from Canada that would rather ban a practice that is clearly not sustainable.In the long run there wont be any sharks left. The same net results for the Chinese that have to make do without shark fin either way, but a way different outcome for the sharks and nature as a whole if the hunting is banned.
Please also understand that all the arguments are pointless that says if all the meat is used it would be better. The reason is that the shark-fin is hunting is driving force behind the killing of sharks elevating them to endangered status. If the meat is used or not is irrelevant it is still endangered. Logical conclusion ban shark fin hunting to let numbers stabilize. Guess what if it stabilized it might be allowed again in a controlled sustainable manner, that would be something to fight for. Still a gradual ban would have been the best.
So the only possible complaint is that the right thing was done too fast and affected the livelihoods of certain Chinese people that would have appreciated some warning of the impending shortage. In the immortal words of iRobot's Vicky: "My logic is undeniable"
On October 26 2011 18:17 Sasquatch wrote: I have no problem with people wanting to eat shark fin soup, but currently it is being harvested in a completely insane and unsustainable manner. Greed tends to ruin any good thing.
For reference, here's a piece Gordon Ramsay did on shark fin harvesting:
I never saw this video before, never "liked" Gordon Ramsay but seeing one of the worlds "best" ( or at least considered best ) chefs saying a delicacy has "no taste" is just as ignorant as a teen saying classical music sucks compared to the 21century pop music. It might be that shark fin soup is "wasteful" in terms of how much of the shark is actually used for something and you really need to have "acquired" a taste for it before you can actually justify the cost but banning it is just silly and i see no real reason for doing so. If you want to ban shark fishing/selling thats fine but banning a certain product... i can't fathom a good reason for that unless its a drug.
Looking at his facial expression after tasting it, I think he almost spitted it out due to distastefulness but decided to swallow it at the end.
On October 26 2011 20:24 Williammm wrote: Banning due to sustainability issues, I can understand.
But anything like moral and ethical issues are just bullshit. There is no humane way to kill an animal. Killing is killing, and I know most people associate degrees of pain an animal feels to calculate the level of ethical responsibility and morality. Honestly though, why should that even matter. The moment you decide to kill a living thing, you've already breached issues of ethics and morality. Stop being so self righteous.
The reasons for the ban were justified assuming that they're true. /story
Are you saying animals don't feel pain? Would you like to have all your limbs cut off, then left to bleed out & die in the middle of the street? or would you prefer to have a lethal injection / gunshot to the head / anything else painless/instant.
Totally agree that killing is killing and it's already crossing ethical/moral lines, but saying 'there is no human way' to kill an animal is bullshit.
If they are going to run around killing sharks for their fins, at least stab it's brain, like any normal person who goes fishing.
I'm not saying they don't feel pain. I'm saying why should that matter, and why are we applying human emotions and concepts to another species whom we deem as food. You're comparing within species killing as oppose to the act of killing for food. Two completely different things.
As I said before, it's just something we apply to other living things to make us feel better. Whether I prefer lethal injection or what not performed by ANOTHER human is a completely different issue. I, in that situation am not dehumanised in anyway. So as long as I'm perceived as humanity to the murderer, the humane killing concept applies. As soon as dehumanisation occurs, your end result is something akin to genocide and holocaust, brutal killings etc. Horrible thing because they're still people to me, but the question is why are you trying to make the sharks out like humans? They're just food, and the moment you deny they're food you're just kidding yourself.
Pain isn't a human concept. Every animal feels pain. You're not trying to humanize a shark if you want to reduce it's suffering because pain isn't exclusively human.
On October 26 2011 18:41 T.O.P. wrote: It's an example of the majority infringing on the rights of the minority. The law unfairly targets people of Chinese descent by banning one of their cultural traditions.
Traditional customs need to be assessed for what they are. The idea of Eating monkey brains and shark fins is just not ok to many people these days.
In some parts of papua new guinea its custom for young boys to drink sperm from old men "to get strong" doesnt mean its ok...
Fyi i speak chinese (mandarin) and have been to china.. Nothing against the chinese at all, but i think they have a few outdated customs which should not be defended.
On October 26 2011 21:16 Paperplane wrote: Pain isn't a human concept. Every animal feels pain. You're not trying to humanize a shark if you want to reduce it's suffering because pain isn't exclusively human.
I'd stop if I were you. That troll actually believes what ridiculous shit he spouts out.
Ban is OK. The Chinese are FAMOUS for their animal cruelty because they don't give ANY shit about animal welbeing. they just take what they need and leave animals to die gruesomely and slowly because actually putting it out if their misery would mean they have to actually do something other than make profit. Chinese fur farms anyone?
On October 26 2011 20:37 Suisen wrote: Knowing the prize would spoil the taste when eating it. Especially when you realize the context is in a third world country.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
I think what he's trying to say is that your enjoyment of the food will change once you know the value(price) of it.
I.e. If shark fin isn't so rare and expensive we might find it not as tasty as it is now. Talking about shark fin, many people think "Woon Zai Chee" tastes qutie similar to shark fin soup. If the price are similar for both, may people find that the shark fin soup is really tasty/good?
Edit: Sometimes I do think people eat shark fin soups not simply because of the taste becoz to show their socio-economical status etc
Yup, and did you hear about the guys who ate gold flakes.... Lol
On October 26 2011 20:57 T.O.P. wrote: If that's your culture, then cool. Hunting Han chinese seems much more dangerous than hunting sharks though.
Haha, very true. You're going to need a bigger boat.
Still all fishery needs to scale back to be sustainable and pretty much none of it is. The Cods running out in the North Sea/Atlantic and the blue fin are all but gone... claims that it's only the chinese that do unsustainable fishery are right up there with the usual middle class racism (why should I cut down on my carbon emmissions when china has a growing economy etc. - despite per capita emmisions being a tiny fraction of those in the west)
Theres not going to be anything left before long, the whales, sharks, fish any of it. And nobodys stopping the damn humans multiplying.... oh wait, except china....
In short, yeah finning is bad, but so's the rest of factory fishery.
On October 26 2011 18:41 T.O.P. wrote: It's an example of the majority infringing on the rights of the minority. The law unfairly targets people of Chinese descent by banning one of their cultural traditions.
No.
It's called calling you out on morally wrong harvesting methods and the sharks dwindling population.
There is no ban on harvesting the shark itself, it's a ban on consumption. Two very different things that are being banned. Fisherman are still allowed to fish for it, just that people aren't allowed to eat it in that part of Canada. Do you think the people eating it support the harvesting methods themselves?
EPT
