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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
Plus having the ban in Toronto, or all of Canada or all of North America even isn't gonna change anything globally. The Chinese are still gonna hunt the hell out of it and make soups. Let them kill all of them and then cry about it when they're all gone, who cares. | ||
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sorrowptoss
Canada1431 Posts
THE PROBLEM IS A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SURVIVE BY MAKING MONEY BY FISHING THOSE SHARKS. We now have a double-face problem. Let sharks live and people die? or sharks die and people live? Where is the justice? Do we need absolute justice? Is money, once again, in the middle of the problem? Why??? WHY??? | ||
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Leopoldshark
United States176 Posts
I think the argument of the morality behind shark finning and the legislation needs to be separated. Regulation is completely useless if it can't be enforced. And the trade will still exist, people will find ways of obtaining the stuff they want. It could even cause an increase in demand of shark fins because it's a "rare delicacy". As I said before, education needs to be our biggest weapon. If we can convince the consumers about the harms involved with purchasing and consuming shark fins, then we will take power away from the harvesters who continue this practice in order to make more money. | ||
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Warlike Prince
371 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:31 repsac wrote: what does it matter, removing the fin kills the shark. is your retarded, primitive, and outmoded tradition worth killing sharks so that you and people like you can eat something of negligible nutritional value just so that you can feel better about yourselves? "what does it matter, removing the fin kills the shark" so you are ok as long as the whole shark is used. I dont think it should be legal to fin it and throw it back, but not for moral reasons, because I dont like to be wastefull im white and have only eaten it a couple times, its not my tradition but I do like it. You seem enraged at what animals people like to eat but do you get this mad about the countless wars going on aroudn the world. You likely eat beef and chicken, why is it different I guess my views are way different than the current norm, animals are animals, people are people, and I would gladly extinct and entire speices to save 1 human life Honestly all this talk about shark fin and wasted parts makes me really wanna try a shark steak Also way to dodge the part where i said that not all fishers just fin it and leave it to die, just people some people do doesnt means they all do. | ||
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ydeer93
United Kingdom66 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:36 Warlike Prince wrote: not put them back ... put them in zoos, eventally there will be no room for animals. Read my other post, thats just my thoughts on animals in general, not necessarily sharks in this situation. Also eventually there will be water based citys because we can only go up and down so far Right now thjere is 7 billion, how long till 70 billion or even 700 billion. How long can we care about what happens to other species before it effects the numbers of our own? The fin adds no taste, its good that they are banning it! and to be fair to you mate, 70 billion ? 700 billion? gota be joking right haha, by the time we reach like 12+ the planets resources and food will be short | ||
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Kiarip
United States1835 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:47 sorrowptoss wrote: This is terrible. We should definitely stop killing those poor sharks just for their fins and throwing them back into the water helplessly, dying amidst the ever-degrading aquatic biosphere. THE PROBLEM IS A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SURVIVE BY MAKING MONEY BY FISHING THOSE SHARKS. We now have a double-face problem. Let sharks live and people die? or sharks die and people live? Where is the justice? Do we need absolute justice? Is money, once again, in the middle of the problem? Why??? WHY??? Tons of random species go extinct all the time. mostly they're some obscure insects or plants or fungi... Whatever, who cares, it's gonna happen. If the Chinese really want to shell out tons of money for some random shark fin, then the Sharks are gonna get killed either way. Why turn law-abiding citizens making a living into criminals? | ||
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R4TM
Brazil140 Posts
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Warlike Prince
371 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:49 ydeer93 wrote: The fin adds no taste, its good that they are banning it! and to be fair to you mate, 70 billion ? 700 billion? gota be joking right haha, by the time we reach like 12+ the planets resources and food will be short You have no idea how big the planet is do you, or how much room we have? also try to imagine a thousand years down the road mile high buildings that ue some floors for trees / plants for air and some floors for animals to eat. Now imagine every inch of land mass covered in them. 700 billion completely possible. 70 billion easy with current tech | ||
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Deadeight
United Kingdom1629 Posts
On October 26 2011 18:41 T.O.P. wrote: It's an example of the majority infringing on the rights of the minority. The law unfairly targets people of Chinese descent by banning one of their cultural traditions. lol don't just play the race card. It shouldn't receive any special treatment just for being a cultural tradition. + Show Spoiler + Spartans and other cultures killed weak looking babies Cannibalism was a tradition in some societies Human sacrifice has been a tradition in a lot of societies etc etc The above is a stupid comparison but I've just stuck in extreme examples to illustrate my point. It has nothing to do with targeting people of Chinese descent. It has everything to do with ethics, and more importantly sustaining the environment (by not over-fishing species into extinction). It just so happens that a large portion of the affected people are of Chinese descent, as it relates to one of their traditions. | ||
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IreScath
Canada521 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:47 sorrowptoss wrote: This is terrible. We should definitely stop killing those poor sharks just for their fins and throwing them back into the water helplessly, dying amidst the ever-degrading aquatic biosphere. THE PROBLEM IS A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SURVIVE BY MAKING MONEY BY FISHING THOSE SHARKS. We now have a double-face problem. Let sharks live and people die? or sharks die and people live? Where is the justice? Do we need absolute justice? Is money, once again, in the middle of the problem? Why??? WHY??? Do you honestly believe that stopping this activity will result in people dieing?.... Are you kidding me? | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On October 27 2011 01:40 fush wrote: don't make me laugh. you think supermarkets are supplied by "reputable" local butchers? how do you enforce this "humane" killing anyway, you willing to pay your tax dollars to community watchdogs? it's not even the killing - it's the raising of the animals that can be considered ethically/humanely questionable. i personally turn a blind eye to it since i love meat, but if you're going to use this as an argument for "inhumane" killing of sharks, then you're awfully misinformed or naive. Where did I say supermarkets are supplied by reputable butchers? Obviously if pick up some prepackaged frozen beef at Superstore you have no idea what kind of life it lived. It's the smaller shops, or get them straight from the people that raised the animals. I wasn't even arguing against shark killing, I was just making the point that not every animal you eat (Unless you go to Superstore) was raised in a cage and slaughtered cruelly, and that you probably can't find that with shark fins. | ||
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Eilvin
Sweden12 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:36 Warlike Prince wrote: not put them back ... put them in zoos, eventally there will be no room for animals. Read my other post, thats just my thoughts on animals in general, not necessarily sharks in this situation. Also eventually there will be water based citys because we can only go up and down so far Right now thjere is 7 billion, how long till 70 billion or even 700 billion. How long can we care about what happens to other species before it effects the numbers of our own? If there eventually will be no more room for animals, then there will be no more room for us either. Even though we don't specifically need the meat from animals to survive, animals are needed for many many plants to reproduce, get nutrients etc. We can't prioritize ourselves over animals forever, in the end that will be the end of us aswell. Our focus should be to try to limit our own population, not to try to make room for an increase. We're already operating at a level that's not sustainable. And once again shark fin soup has _nothing_ to do with our own survival, its a vanity treat that's very low on nutrients, as all meat from apex predators is. Meat from apex predators is more often than not actually harmful to eat because toxins accumulate the higher you get in the food-chain. And if you look at shark populations, most of the sharks used for fin-soup has decreased by roughly 70% in the last 20-30 years. At this rate sharks will become extinct in the upcoming decades. And without sharks the eco-systems will collapse and who knows what species might become extinct as a result of this? maybe a species that actually is of great importance for our survival. Stop being so blind and realise that we cannot live alone on this planet we need the other species aswell. | ||
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darkcloud8282
Canada776 Posts
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Leopoldshark
United States176 Posts
The people who rely on shark finning for their income will find another way to survive. The sharks, however, won't, as without fins they will sink to the bottom of the ocean and perish. Edit: Shark farms won't be very effective because sharks take a long time to reproduce (not until their twenties). If you want them to live long enough to keep a healthy supply of sharks AND harvest their fins for money, then your business will not do very well. | ||
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CCitrus
Canada164 Posts
There are valid points against this ban: One is the harm the collapse of an industry may cause to individuals. Don't harmful, outdated industries deserve to be put to rest? What happened to the fluorocarbon industry when we discovered it burning our ozone layer? We axed it. Two is the cultural significance of shark fin. Could we not look at creating a synthetic replacement? It may have been a part of past culture, but it is no longer practical. Some of my ancestor's past-times included colonial subjugation of native populations, but no one is clamouring for that. Historical importance is not enough to justify unsustainable activites. Oh yeah, cutting the fins off of sharks is immoral. But that's relative, so not really a valid argument. | ||
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Eilvin
Sweden12 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:53 Warlike Prince wrote: You have no idea how big the planet is do you, or how much room we have? also try to imagine a thousand years down the road mile high buildings that ue some floors for trees / plants for air and some floors for animals to eat. Now imagine every inch of land mass covered in them. 700 billion completely possible. 70 billion easy with current tech What kind of sci-fi world do you live in? Where the hell would you get the material for these building? | ||
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HeroHenry
United States1723 Posts
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Childplay
Canada263 Posts
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Leopoldshark
United States176 Posts
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On October 27 2011 04:49 Warlike Prince wrote: "what does it matter, removing the fin kills the shark" so you are ok as long as the whole shark is used. I dont think it should be legal to fin it and throw it back, but not for moral reasons, because I dont like to be wastefull the problem with sharks is the mecury levels. there are warnings from food safety groups and organizations around the world regarding mercury levels in sharks because they at the top of the food chain. | ||
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