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On October 19 2011 21:36 ChinaLifeXXL wrote:
Just watched the vid and I mean, if you didn't see the car hit the kid or the incident it just looks like a child wailing in the middle of the street. Not like some sort of accident victim. The civilians who didn't do anything cannot be blamed, in my opinion. Too hard to tell what happened unless you saw the actual crushing take place.
She was lying down in a pool of blood, according to the report. You can clearly see a pool of liquid forming around her. I don't think that counts as a child just randomly wailing in the street.
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On October 20 2011 00:20 RogerX wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 00:02 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 23:50 101toss wrote:On October 19 2011 23:28 matjlav wrote:Yangcheng Evening News quoted the man who first struck Yue Yue as saying, "If it was you who hit someone, you'd run too. You can see the little girl, looking around when she walked. If she walked properly, how could I hit her?" Jesus Christ, what a fucking scumbag. What I found even worse was running over the kid, stopping, and proceeding to run over the kid a second time with the rear tires here's the train of thought Driver: oh shit I hit some one, thinks a moment, I might as well kill her so I just pay a fatality fine vs a mountain of medical bills. /accelerator I wish there was some way to encourage save the life, idk maybe make fatality fine higher, or a lighter sentence for saving what you harmed would work Well, the lady who helped her got rewarded with 1000+ dollars and also a fixed work, I think thats contributing a bit more towards influncing people to help those that are in need.
No i am implying something entirely different,
The first hit was light, and did no do alot of damage to the child,
The reason that the injuries became severe is because the driver intended to kill her after the accident. The drivers wanted to avoid paying her medical bills for life, and to save themselves and just pay a traffic fatality fee attempted murder, unluckily for them, and luckily for the girl, she survived.
Now what happens after is irrelevant.
The main problem is that the system encourage "If you fuck up, you better silence the victim". And I believe a change that encourages, helping the victim, be made to the system. If I hit someone and I help them, It must be less costly than paying a traffic fatality fine. If this is implemented then This tragedy would not occur in the first place.
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On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin
You're completely retarted. Walking by and doing nothing is a sin.
Are you serious? Moralfaggotry?
We call this civil courage. You probably dont know what that means.
We have a law here that sais you must help if someone is in need. If you dont help you go to jail up to one year. You know why we have that law? because it's absolutely sick if you dont help...
Chinese government must be really fucked up.
Toss your families future? What a joke. People there dont even call the emergency doctor...
People that dont help are scam nothing more. The least thing they could do is calling a doctor but who am i speaking with anyways...
User was temp banned for this post.
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On October 20 2011 00:53 Mczeppo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin You're completely retarted. Walking by and doing nothing is a sin. Are you serious? Moralfaggotry? We call this civil courage. You probably dont know what that means. We have a law here that sais you must help if someone is in need. If you dont help you go to jail up to one year. You know why we have that law? because it's absolutely sick if you dont help... Chinese government must be really fucked up. Toss your families future? What a joke. People there dont even call the emergency doctor... People that dont help are scam nothing more. The least thing they could do is calling a doctor but who am i speaking with anyways...
The Holocaust
User was warned for this post
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The guy that ran the kid over literally said, himself, that he was scared he would have to pay more if the child lived.
And some of you think the system doesn't incentivize that decision? The man just said it himself!! Herpy derp derp.
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On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin
I'm really hoping I misunderstood your comment. How in the world is saving a dying 4 year old going to harm my family? If someone was getting mugged at gunpoint, sure a lot of people would do nothing as their personal lives could be in danger. Sitting behind a monitor, most would claim that they would rise to the occasion and help the victim. However when the time comes most react differently. This is wrong, yet understandable.
But when a defenseless four year old has been run over by a van and is just lying there in the middle of a busy street with immediate need for a doctor's attention to make sure she doesn't die I see zero excuse for people who walk buy "afraid to help" or even those slimy fucks who say that they can "understand them".
As far as I'm concerned there are no "consequences" for helping her out. Worst case scenario, if I am really in a hurry for something that I just cannot miss I would call a fucking ambulance to the location at least. Hell, people always have the option to make an anonymous call if they're "so scared". I just couldn't live with myself for walking away.
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On October 20 2011 00:53 Mczeppo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin You're completely retarted. Walking by and doing nothing is a sin. Are you serious? Moralfaggotry? We call this civil courage. You probably dont know what that means. We have a law here that sais you must help if someone is in need. If you dont help you go to jail up to one year. You know why we have that law? because it's absolutely sick if you dont help... Chinese government must be really fucked up. Toss your families future? What a joke. People there dont even call the emergency doctor... People that dont help are scam nothing more. The least thing they could do is calling a doctor but who am i speaking with anyways...
You are so arrogant and self-righteous in your tone that your point will be completely ignored. Ironically it is through similar sentiments that extremism and fascism arise. I sense that European politics is heading towards dark times.
Also your point that has been discussed to death in this thread, everyone here knows that the Chinese gov't is fucked beyond what the average westener can imagine and no one is arguing that it was sad/tragic/wrong to not do anything too. Lol@ calling it a "scam"...
Even more LOL @ calling the Chinese out for civil courage.
Side story: The balcony of my neighbours collapsed once, and a lady was trapped in the ruins. My parents and their friends were there, they immediately went after her, clearing out the debris and rescuing her without a second thought. Yet none of us would has the means to risk helping everyone in the street in China for fear of scam. Let's just say that everyone knows better.
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Wow that is such a relief to hear that the girl is still alive, I was so sad to read it for the first time that she didn't survive.
I really hope that she lives through this. Really sad video to watch.
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On October 20 2011 02:51 Bibdy wrote:
The guy that ran the kid over literally said, himself, that he was scared he would have to pay more if the child lived.
And some of you think the system doesn't incentivize that decision? The man just said it himself!! Herpy derp derp.
I'm fine with the kid getting run over. It sucks, but shit happens. Hell, I'm even okay with the man running away, hes probably a coward who can't stand up to his mistakes. What I'm not okay with, and what I'm sure most people would agree, are the fucking bystanders. They have nothing to lose from helping get the poor kid to a hospital. No excuses, simple.
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On October 20 2011 03:07 peekn wrote:
Wow that is such a relief to hear that the girl is still alive, I was so sad to read it for the first time that she didn't survive.
I really hope that she lives through this. Really sad video to watch.
She's going to be a vegetable. Not much consolation in my opinion
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On October 20 2011 02:57 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin I'm really hoping I misunderstood your comment. How in the world is saving a dying 4 year old going to harm my family? If someone was getting mugged at gunpoint, sure a lot of people would do nothing as their personal lives could be in danger. Sitting behind a monitor, most would claim that they would rise to the occasion and help the victim. However when the time comes most react differently. This is wrong, yet understandable. But when a defenseless four year old has been run over by a van and is just lying there in the middle of a busy street with immediate need for a doctor's attention to make sure she doesn't die I see zero excuse for people who walk buy "afraid to help" or even those slimy fucks who say that they can "understand them". As far as I'm concerned there are no "consequences" for helping her out. Worst case scenario, if I am really in a hurry for something that I just cannot miss I would call a fucking ambulance to the location at least. Hell, people always have the option to make an anonymous call if they're "so scared". I just couldn't live with myself for walking away.
It seems, in 2006 there was an example for a man helping an elderly woman that had fallen, and was then sued by her family to pay the medical expenses. The judge in the trial said he finds it unlikely that the man would have helped if he would not have been involved in the accident. The man was deemed liable and had to pay.
If you imagine the same could potentially happen to someone that helps the kid in this case, this could lead to being sued to pay for medical expenses and perhaps the livelihood of the kid in the future, because the kid may end up disabled and unable to work. Also, it seems there is no law that requires a liability insurance for car owners, and only the middle class and rich pay for something like that in China. This would explain the ridiculous behaviour of the van driver.
Additionally, the difference between the poor and the rich in China is at the moment even worse than in the US. Your family needs every penny of your income to, for example, pay for education for the kids, for them to have better chances in their future. It seems these circumstances are common knowledge and everyone is regularly reminded to look out for their family first and avoid all potential problems, which results in that cruel mindset in the bystanders that ignored the kid.
(This is how I understood the posts in this thread and the reports in the media about this case.)
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On October 20 2011 03:07 peekn wrote:
Wow that is such a relief to hear that the girl is still alive, I was so sad to read it for the first time that she didn't survive.
I really hope that she lives through this. Really sad video to watch.
Although I felt the same when I found out she was still alive, but she isn't doing well. In fact latest report shows her condition has worsen, and she is in a near brain dead state. Doctor said at best she might just ended up in a vegetable state, and that still hurt me just as much.
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On October 20 2011 03:21 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 02:57 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin I'm really hoping I misunderstood your comment. How in the world is saving a dying 4 year old going to harm my family? If someone was getting mugged at gunpoint, sure a lot of people would do nothing as their personal lives could be in danger. Sitting behind a monitor, most would claim that they would rise to the occasion and help the victim. However when the time comes most react differently. This is wrong, yet understandable. But when a defenseless four year old has been run over by a van and is just lying there in the middle of a busy street with immediate need for a doctor's attention to make sure she doesn't die I see zero excuse for people who walk buy "afraid to help" or even those slimy fucks who say that they can "understand them". As far as I'm concerned there are no "consequences" for helping her out. Worst case scenario, if I am really in a hurry for something that I just cannot miss I would call a fucking ambulance to the location at least. Hell, people always have the option to make an anonymous call if they're "so scared". I just couldn't live with myself for walking away. It seems, in 2006 there was an example for a man helping an elderly woman that had fallen, and was then sued by her family to pay the medical expenses. The judge in the trial said he finds it unlikely that the man would have helped if he would not have been involved in the accident. The man was deemed liable and had to pay. If you imagine the same could potentially happen to someone that helps the kid in this case, this could lead to being sued to pay for medical expenses and perhaps the livelihood of the kid in the future, because the kid may end up disabled and unable to work. Also, it seems there is no law that requires a liability insurance for car owners, and only the middle class and rich pay for something like that in China. This would explain the ridiculous behaviour of the van driver. Additionally, the difference between the poor and the rich in China is at the moment even worse than in the US. Your family needs every penny of your income to, for example, pay for education for the kids, for them to have better chances in their future. It seems these circumstances are common knowledge and everyone is regularly reminded to look out for their family first and avoid all potential problems, which results in that cruel mindset in the bystanders that ignored the kid. (This is how I understood the posts in this thread and the reports in the media about this case.)
Whatever dude..... I'd gladly be sued for helping save a child's life.. At least I can sleep in peace when the dust settles. I don't want to hear about socioeconomic excuses when shes lying in a busy street where one selfish soul couldn't grow the balls to help her out. She got run over AGAIN before that woman helps her to the side.
For a culture that is know for valuing 'honor' and 'family' its pretty pathetic disgusting .
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I guess they thought it was the will of god. It would figure.
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This is one of the most disturbing images i have ever seen.
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On October 20 2011 03:31 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 03:21 Ropid wrote:On October 20 2011 02:57 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin I'm really hoping I misunderstood your comment. How in the world is saving a dying 4 year old going to harm my family? If someone was getting mugged at gunpoint, sure a lot of people would do nothing as their personal lives could be in danger. Sitting behind a monitor, most would claim that they would rise to the occasion and help the victim. However when the time comes most react differently. This is wrong, yet understandable. But when a defenseless four year old has been run over by a van and is just lying there in the middle of a busy street with immediate need for a doctor's attention to make sure she doesn't die I see zero excuse for people who walk buy "afraid to help" or even those slimy fucks who say that they can "understand them". As far as I'm concerned there are no "consequences" for helping her out. Worst case scenario, if I am really in a hurry for something that I just cannot miss I would call a fucking ambulance to the location at least. Hell, people always have the option to make an anonymous call if they're "so scared". I just couldn't live with myself for walking away. It seems, in 2006 there was an example for a man helping an elderly woman that had fallen, and was then sued by her family to pay the medical expenses. The judge in the trial said he finds it unlikely that the man would have helped if he would not have been involved in the accident. The man was deemed liable and had to pay. If you imagine the same could potentially happen to someone that helps the kid in this case, this could lead to being sued to pay for medical expenses and perhaps the livelihood of the kid in the future, because the kid may end up disabled and unable to work. Also, it seems there is no law that requires a liability insurance for car owners, and only the middle class and rich pay for something like that in China. This would explain the ridiculous behaviour of the van driver. Additionally, the difference between the poor and the rich in China is at the moment even worse than in the US. Your family needs every penny of your income to, for example, pay for education for the kids, for them to have better chances in their future. It seems these circumstances are common knowledge and everyone is regularly reminded to look out for their family first and avoid all potential problems, which results in that cruel mindset in the bystanders that ignored the kid. (This is how I understood the posts in this thread and the reports in the media about this case.) Whatever dude..... I'd gladly be sued for helping save a child's life.. At least I can sleep in peace when the dust settles. I don't want to hear about socioeconomic excuses when shes lying in a busy street where one selfish soul couldn't grow the balls to help her out. She got run over AGAIN before that woman helps her to the side. For a culture that is know for valuing 'honor' and 'family' its pretty pathetic disgusting .
I am not judging or defending or anything. You asked what the poster meant by saying you would risk harming your family, and this was the explanation. The bystanders in the video evidently seem to believe in that reasoning, or they have zero conscience, which is unlikely, I guess, as there were supposedly 18 people involved that did not help (I do not remember where I heard that 18 mentioned).
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On October 20 2011 03:21 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 02:57 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin I'm really hoping I misunderstood your comment. How in the world is saving a dying 4 year old going to harm my family? If someone was getting mugged at gunpoint, sure a lot of people would do nothing as their personal lives could be in danger. Sitting behind a monitor, most would claim that they would rise to the occasion and help the victim. However when the time comes most react differently. This is wrong, yet understandable. But when a defenseless four year old has been run over by a van and is just lying there in the middle of a busy street with immediate need for a doctor's attention to make sure she doesn't die I see zero excuse for people who walk buy "afraid to help" or even those slimy fucks who say that they can "understand them". As far as I'm concerned there are no "consequences" for helping her out. Worst case scenario, if I am really in a hurry for something that I just cannot miss I would call a fucking ambulance to the location at least. Hell, people always have the option to make an anonymous call if they're "so scared". I just couldn't live with myself for walking away. It seems, in 2006 there was an example for a man helping an elderly woman that had fallen, and was then sued by her family to pay the medical expenses. The judge in the trial said he finds it unlikely that the man would have helped if he would not have been involved in the accident. The man was deemed liable and had to pay. If you imagine the same could potentially happen to someone that helps the kid in this case, this could lead to being sued to pay for medical expenses and perhaps the livelihood of the kid in the future, because the kid may end up disabled and unable to work. Also, it seems there is no law that requires a liability insurance for car owners, and only the middle class and rich pay for something like that in China. This would explain the ridiculous behaviour of the van driver. Additionally, the difference between the poor and the rich in China is at the moment even worse than in the US. Your family needs every penny of your income to, for example, pay for education for the kids, for them to have better chances in their future. It seems these circumstances are common knowledge and everyone is regularly reminded to look out for their family first and avoid all potential problems, which results in that cruel mindset in the bystanders that ignored the kid. (This is how I understood the posts in this thread and the reports in the media about this case.)
Modern China has a very cynical society. I think most expats can tell you this much.
The desire to do good is correlated with the degree of trust that exists within a community, and there is very little trust in modern China. This has to do with political corruption, it has to do with crony capitalism, and it has to do with the day-to-day experience of the average Chinese person in a rapidly developing country where there is a lack of financial security and moral accountability.
If you lived in a society where you are constantly being screwed over by people around you, where lie and deceit is the norm of those in power, where goodness is not rewarded but punished, where bribery and nepotism determine your lot in life, and where the rule of law is non-existent for the rich and the powerful but endeavors to obstruct those trying to make an honest living, then apathy and indifference is your "typical" response.
The reason Chinese like Blasterion place their own family first to such a large degree, I gather, is that their family is the only people they can trust, and who they can trust to help them in times of need. If your expectation is that a stranger with no familial ties to you is unlikely to ever help you, then it is unlikely that you will be motivated to help strangers.
Apathy is a vicious cycle because it operates on the psychological notion of reciprocity. The only hope is that as people become more secure in their finances and individual lives, they will become more attentive to the rest of the society around them because, at the end of the day, they have to live in it. But there isn't a guarantee that, as society becomes richer, people will become more sympathetic towards each other. The income gap may never narrow, and the cycle of apathy may continue to sap the vitality of a society for centuries to come.
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It's simple diffusion of responsibility/bystander effect. The people who didn't help don't necessarily have no conscience, it's just that it's very easy for your brain to convince you "someone else would take care of this, no worries, just keep moving".
All this criticism and analysis of Chinese culture is nice and everything but a lot of it is bullshit and not really relevant to the case at hand.
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On October 20 2011 04:07 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2011 03:21 Ropid wrote:On October 20 2011 02:57 sGs.Kal_rA wrote:On October 19 2011 08:13 Blasterion wrote:On October 19 2011 08:00 Mczeppo wrote:On October 18 2011 09:46 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Oh God, is there some conspiracy on TL I don't know about that equates to "post every bad thing that happens in China"? The strong majority of threads about something bad happening as a result of people's actions have to do with China. I don't get it :S. This is a tragedy, but shit like this happens anytime, anywhere. It isn't exclusive to just China. I know, from experience, there's a fair chance there's going to be some sinophobic posts in this thread like there are in every other one concerning China. Already, there's a bit of a slant in the OP, such as this statement: This phenomenon of watching idly may seem barbaric to us in the US as if implying that all Americans are high-class mannered folks and Chinese are evil and barbaric (lol). No, this phenomenon is not barbaric in the US. I've heard it happen plenty of times and even seen it happen (I've usually gone to the rescue in those several occasions, and in one case I was even indicted as the perpetrator even when the victim vouched for me... it took above-godly tact and argumentation to get out of that pickle), despite the "Good Samaritan" law. People getting beat up, shot, hit by vehicles, you name it. The best I've seen or heard of is something calling an ambulance and then going along their way, by strangers that is (obviously a family member or good friend is going to be of some serious assistance). Hell what am I saying? Just a couple months ago, a relative was at a gas station in the evening, got assaulted, tried to fight back and was shot a few times (and the thugs left), and people still came to the gas station and didn't do shit, the people/employees inside the store didn't do shit. She had to crawl her way into there and basically show them her condition and to call the police before anyone did anything. stop talking please! this would probably NEVER happen in germany, probably not in spain, france and other EU countries, whatever they are. i dont know about the US but i'm sure it would not happen there as well. Things like this happen "anywhere, anytime." Crap I'm completely shocked about how the majority of the chinese people didnt give a shit in this video. Comments like "i can understand them", "they are afraid to help" make me sick. You see what death penalty causes! Think it through before you start posting, think thru all the possibilities, and consequences, and ask yourself, it's a 10% chance that you could toss your family's future out the window, I would make a decision that would not harm my family, Many may not know this but moralfaggotry is a sin I'm really hoping I misunderstood your comment. How in the world is saving a dying 4 year old going to harm my family? If someone was getting mugged at gunpoint, sure a lot of people would do nothing as their personal lives could be in danger. Sitting behind a monitor, most would claim that they would rise to the occasion and help the victim. However when the time comes most react differently. This is wrong, yet understandable. But when a defenseless four year old has been run over by a van and is just lying there in the middle of a busy street with immediate need for a doctor's attention to make sure she doesn't die I see zero excuse for people who walk buy "afraid to help" or even those slimy fucks who say that they can "understand them". As far as I'm concerned there are no "consequences" for helping her out. Worst case scenario, if I am really in a hurry for something that I just cannot miss I would call a fucking ambulance to the location at least. Hell, people always have the option to make an anonymous call if they're "so scared". I just couldn't live with myself for walking away. It seems, in 2006 there was an example for a man helping an elderly woman that had fallen, and was then sued by her family to pay the medical expenses. The judge in the trial said he finds it unlikely that the man would have helped if he would not have been involved in the accident. The man was deemed liable and had to pay. If you imagine the same could potentially happen to someone that helps the kid in this case, this could lead to being sued to pay for medical expenses and perhaps the livelihood of the kid in the future, because the kid may end up disabled and unable to work. Also, it seems there is no law that requires a liability insurance for car owners, and only the middle class and rich pay for something like that in China. This would explain the ridiculous behaviour of the van driver. Additionally, the difference between the poor and the rich in China is at the moment even worse than in the US. Your family needs every penny of your income to, for example, pay for education for the kids, for them to have better chances in their future. It seems these circumstances are common knowledge and everyone is regularly reminded to look out for their family first and avoid all potential problems, which results in that cruel mindset in the bystanders that ignored the kid. (This is how I understood the posts in this thread and the reports in the media about this case.) Modern China has a very cynical society. I think most expats can tell you this much. The desire to do good is correlated with the degree of trust that exists within a community, and there is very little trust in modern China. This has to do with political corruption, it has to do with crony capitalism, and it has to do with the day-to-day experience of the average Chinese person in a rapidly developing country where there is a lack of financial security and moral accountability. If you lived in a society where you are constantly being screwed over by people around you, where lie and deceit is the norm of those in power, where goodness is not rewarded but punished, where bribery and nepotism determine your lot in life, and where the rule of law is non-existent for the rich and the powerful but endeavors to obstruct those trying to make an honest living, then apathy and indifference is your "typical" response. The reason Chinese like Blasterion place their own family first to such a large degree, I gather, is that their family is the only people they can trust, and who they can trust to help them in times of need. If your expectation is that a stranger with no familial ties to you is unlikely to ever help you, then it is unlikely that you will be motivated to help strangers. Apathy is a vicious cycle, once it has taken root in a society, and it seems that it has taken root in modern China, for the time being. The only hope is that as people become more secure in their finances and individual lives, they will become more attentive to the rest of the society around them because, at the end of the day, they have to live in it. But there isn't a guarantee that, as society becomes richer, people will become more sympathetic towards each other. The income gap may never narrow, and the cycle of apathy may continue to sap the vitality of a society for centuries to come.
This is exactly how I feel about people in China. In Canada I feel life is a lot simpler because I never feel like strangers are potential pickpockets or eyeing you for a potential robbery or people coming to you for a potential scam later. If I were to visit China I would not have the same feeling at all, reading from Chinese newspapers about the things that go on there as well as relatives who still live there. Other than people I know I would never ever drop my guard when dealing with local people in China.
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I just find it shocking that the Chinese culture and laws have made it so that a dying four year old child in the middle of the street has made the public so desensitized to the situation that they didn't even bother stopping for 5 seconds to investigate the situation.
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EPT
