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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
Start backing claims up with links, good lord. Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. Just because one item works for you doesn't mean it works the same for another. Erowid.org is the best resource you can find for drugs and user related stories (read : anecdotal) | ||
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
On October 18 2011 06:57 SupLilSon wrote: What massive problems in today's society does marijuana cause? I've been purposely avoiding your posts because they seem to lack any empirical basis. Blindly believing that marijuana is the root of all evil despite scientific research pointing towards the contrary, is similar to Nazi Germany buying into the propaganda that Jews and Non-Aryans were the root of all evil despite what logic would tell you. You are the only one being offensive with your baseless posts. Godwin's Law. It only too 31 pages! :D On topic, I feel like marijuana causing problems in society isn't the issue here. I feel that just because something's not bad for society doesn't mean it's not okay to discriminate against users. Take, for example, people who don't have the mental fortitude to stop a video game in the middle even for relative emergencies. I certainly don't want to put my trust in that kind of person, but they're not actually causing problems for society. I think we can stop with the "you're offensive," "no you're offensive" talk because this is a forum not a battleground. Calm yourselves! | ||
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oldgregg
New Zealand1176 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:24 UmiNotsuki wrote: Godwin's Law. It only too 31 pages! :D On topic, I feel like marijuana causing problems in society isn't the issue here. I feel that just because something's not bad for society doesn't mean it's not okay to discriminate against users. Take, for example, people who don't have the mental fortitude to stop a video game in the middle even for relative emergencies. I certainly don't want to put my trust in that kind of person, but they're not actually causing problems for society. I think we can stop with the "you're offensive," "no you're offensive" talk because this is a forum not a battleground. Calm yourselves! Then what would your reason be for discriminating against someone who comes home at the end of the day and smokes a joint? | ||
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:19 AutomatonOmega wrote: Central Oregon. College town. Coincidentally, this town has a really bad job market. Might contribute to the amount of deadbeats around here. There is nothing to do in central Oregon, except hang out outside, that and its extremely easy to find around here/there. Weed definitely can be addictive (and I will never argue that inhaling burning debris isn't bad for you) so it definitely can have a negative impact on your life, but when you learn the facts or try if for yourself and see, you will easily see that caffeine, alcohol, and tobacco are all just as bad (if not X10 worse) for you than cannabis. The societal norm of weed is pure propaganda. And its sad that our government thinks its okay to legislate all the good that cannabis (and hemp) could do while supporting and making money off the others. Most doctors are glorified pill pushers that do nothing but prescribe people who don't need it heron in a pill form with a cute little bottle, that says its legal and okay. I know drug addicts and I have friends who would/have called themselves that. Sure I generally like to avoid hanging out with people who are drug "addicts" but these people are my friends and I have seen the good in them too. My uncle is a recovering Meth addict. I've always thought about him whenever hardcore drugs are ever brought up, I won't do anything but smoke weed because of those thoughts (okay maybe if I'm comfortable I might do another psychedelic at some point in the future). Addict is a word that will always come with a negative connotation because it implies someone is out of control, so yeah I guess I avoid those people, but I also try my hardest to never judge people. | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
I smoke cannabis every day. I have been for the past eleven months or so. I'm very open about it. I'm also very offended when people discriminate against me for it. People do it all the time; they'll assume I'm stupid or they'll try to manipulate me as if I'm a young child. Why judge someone over a lifestyle choice that has no effect on you? Judging someone for the drugs they use is no different than judging someone for the food they eat. So what if it's unhealthy? If someone is made happy by eating nothing by McDonalds, why should you care? | ||
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Bruky
Czech Republic161 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:17 beg wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2011 06:55 Bruky wrote: Well for me I just have to wonder why would anybody start taking drugs (even if it is smoking weed) in the first place? Want to feel cool because it is illegal? If this is the case it absolutely has negative impact on my perception of someone. If it is not the case then you had to start because you wanted to feel better. That's kind of sad so again, it negatively affects my view on a person. I know you cant be happy all the time but to take drugs is just running away from the problems and i dont like this kind of weak aspect of the person. Well you can say that even about alcohol, but despite that its much easier for me to accept somebody who is drinking once a week than if he for example smokes weed. In my opinion there is a big difference between alcohol and drugs. With drugs you dont have any immediate negative effects. If you drink a little too much you will barf, you will feel sick next day and sometimes you wont remember a thing what happened. You hear so many times people say "i wont drink again". But if you overuse marijuana? You gonna feel thirsty and hungry? Oh come one. So its much more dangerous in this way, because it will have affect negatively in long run. The last thing i would like to point out is that people usually drink while partying or whatever. And I think its perfect. You wanna have fun with friends or other people. But in the case of drugs i think there are much more cases when you take it/smoke it by yourself. There are for sure some people who drink alone and tons of people who smoke weed only with friends. I dont wanna say that if somebody smokes weed that it makes him automatically terrible person. But I would like to find out what is the reason behind taking drugs? I just dont see the point and I would like to hear some. so drinking to party is good, but a joint to relax after work is bad? alcohol is not a drug? oh boy... and i do not feel any negative effects of drinking 5 beers, yet am pretty pissed. ps: drinking to have fun. can't have fun without? weak character, obviously. nah, seriously, get it in your head: alcohol is a drug. you ask for reasons why to take drugs... ask yourself, why do you drink? it's the answer. if your definition of a drug is "gives you negative effects too", ecstacy is not a drug, cause it gives you a hangover. dude. think about it. you're spewing what propaganda has taught you. really. the only reason why you believe in the ways you do, is because television always makes a difference between drugs and alcohol. there's no difference, trust me. i've tried both. Yeah, drinking at party is good at the sense that it actually improves your social relationship with people. On the other hand smoking weed leads to a solitude. If you smoke it, you will feel fine and you wont need to interact with other people, cause you gonna feel good by yourself. Alcohol doesnt work this way. You wont feel better after drinking by yourself. Thats the main difference at least for me. I dont wanna talk about what is drug or what isnt. Its pointless anyway. The important part is how it affects you. + Show Spoiler + ps: drinking to have fun. can't have fun without? weak character, obviously. Not rly. As stated before. Alcohol doesnt work as drugs do. Alcohol is not a way how to have fun but how to have more fun. But drugs satisfy you just by taking it. I dont need to ask myself why i drink, because i dont :o) I dont drink, smoke or take drugs. I just dont see the reason. But people drink to have "more fun", but drug users take it to "feel fine". I would like to belive my view on alcohol and drugs is based on observation and experience. Maybe i am wrong, but nobody could prove me wrong yet. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:36 Voltaire wrote: Wow. I am surprised at how judgmental so many TL users are. I smoke cannabis every day. I have been for the past eleven months or so. I'm very open about it. I'm also very offended when people discriminate against me for it. People do it all the time; they'll assume I'm stupid or they'll try to manipulate me as if I'm a young child. Why judge someone over a lifestyle choice that has no effect on you? Judging someone for the drugs they use is no different than judging someone for the food they eat. So what if it's unhealthy? If someone is made happy by eating nothing by McDonalds, why should you care? I also "discriminate" against those who dress like annoying hipsters? I'm not terribly for or against the legalization of cannabis. But as the laws are now, it is illegal. Do you like it's illegal: hell no. Should it be illegal? Debatable. But as the laws are now, it is illegal, and it is every right of the populace, especially an employer, to take into account your decision to break the law. | ||
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
Alcohol doesnt work as drugs do. Alcohol is not a way how to have fun but how to have more fun. But drugs satisfy you just by taking it. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. There's a lot of alcoholics in the world. There's also a lot of weed smokers who smoke to 'have more fun'. Everything is more fun when you're high, if it's already fun. Things that bore me are even more boring. I smoke quite a bit, and I really feel it enhances the situation you are in. If I have an evening off my pile of school (university) work, I'll smoke a joint and relax like I wouldn't be able to otherwise. You described alcohol as a way to have more fun. So it's like weed really. Except you're not fucked up the next morning if you smoke WAY too much xD. | ||
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:48 Bruky wrote: Yeah, drinking at party is good at the sense that it actually improves your social relationship with people. On the other hand smoking weed leads to a solitude. If you smoke it, you will feel fine and you wont need to interact with other people, cause you gonna feel good by yourself. Alcohol doesnt work this way. You wont feel better after drinking by yourself. Thats the main difference at least for me. I dont wanna talk about what is drug or what isnt. Its pointless anyway. The important part is how it affects you. + Show Spoiler + ps: drinking to have fun. can't have fun without? weak character, obviously. Not rly. As stated before. Alcohol doesnt work as drugs do. Alcohol is not a way how to have fun but how to have more fun. But drugs satisfy you just by taking it. I dont need to ask myself why i drink, because i dont :o) I dont drink, smoke or take drugs. I just dont see the reason. But people drink to have "more fun", but drug users take it to "feel fine". I would like to belive my view on alcohol and drugs is based on observation and experience. Maybe i am wrong, but nobody could prove me wrong yet. You are wrong, in almost everything you said. | ||
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On October 18 2011 06:14 Little-Chimp wrote: I don't have any problem with people who smoke pot or anything relatively natural. However seeing posts about drug users "seeing through the bullshit" is just a load of self admiring crap. Also, people being born an addict? Seriously? Well, there are such things as crack babies, babies that had drugs in their system while in the uterus and are now going through withdrawal since being born (this is why doing drugs while pregnant is a terrible idea), but other than that, no, addicts are made not born. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:51 Steel wrote: Damn I never thought TL would of been so conservative... I thought that at one point, but that's just old news to me now. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:51 Steel wrote: Damn I never thought TL would of been so conservative... I don't think people are conservative per se. I think people are just pointing out that it does not fit the definition of "Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience" I think that in general, from most of the interactions I have had, those who make their weed consumption a big part of their lives and their idenitities do hurt those who do not. They promote it in such a way, and act in such a way, people correlate their actions to others like them. This is based on reason and experience. Furthermore, although it may not seem rational to you, to some employers their reasoning is sound. They think "this kid broke the law and smoked weed, he will commit other crimes" Is this necessarily true? No. Is this possibly a misconception? Yeah. But my question is is it without reason or experience? If not, what is it? To me clearly, it is on reason, not experience. But reason need not be correct for you, but only for the man who uses it. The clear counterargument to this is those who argued for social darwinism: Africans were weak and hence put into place. However, this type of discrimination dealt with how somebody was born, and not what choices they made. No matter how good smoking pot is, there is a cost and a benefit to it, and there are costs which must be weighed by anyone who partakes in it. On October 18 2011 07:53 GreEny K wrote: I thought that at one point, but that's just old news to me now. I live in the bay area, and to me it seems fairly liberal.... I guess it's conservative for europeans, and liberal for americans? Notwithstanding the fact that a majority of tl users are below 40, which makes the average TL member liberal. (according to US voting demographics) | ||
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:50 Froadac wrote: I also "discriminate" against those who dress like annoying hipsters? I'm not terribly for or against the legalization of cannabis. But as the laws are now, it is illegal. Do you like it's illegal: hell no. Should it be illegal? Debatable. But as the laws are now, it is illegal, and it is every right of the populace, especially an employer, to take into account your decision to break the law. I'm not arguing with you. It's illegal. Helping slaves escape used to be illegal, too. The issue at hand isn't whether or not discrimination is legal or whether employers should be able to take that into account; it's about whether it's morally right to discriminate against someone solely because you know them to be using illegal drugs. So the question lies here: Is it moral to discriminate against someone for breaking the law without taking the morality of the law itself into account? I say no. So if someone is going to discriminate against me for smoking cannabis, they better damn know something about the drug and how it affects people. It is so frustrating to have people who have never smoked it before tell me what I can and cannot do while high solely based off of what they've seen in the media. It's just sheer ignorance. | ||
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beg
991 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:48 Bruky wrote: Yeah, drinking at party is good at the sense that it actually improves your social relationship with people. On the other hand smoking weed leads to a solitude. If you smoke it, you will feel fine and you wont need to interact with other people, cause you gonna feel good by yourself. Alcohol doesnt work this way. You wont feel better after drinking by yourself. Thats the main difference at least for me. I dont wanna talk about what is drug or what isnt. Its pointless anyway. The important part is how it affects you. + Show Spoiler + ps: drinking to have fun. can't have fun without? weak character, obviously. Not rly. As stated before. Alcohol doesnt work as drugs do. Alcohol is not a way how to have fun but how to have more fun. But drugs satisfy you just by taking it. I dont need to ask myself why i drink, because i dont :o) I dont drink, smoke or take drugs. I just dont see the reason. But people drink to have "more fun", but drug users take it to "feel fine". I would like to belive my view on alcohol and drugs is based on observation and experience. Maybe i am wrong, but nobody could prove me wrong yet. you say drugs are substances that you take to just "feel fine", but look at cocaine, ecstacy, mushrooms, amphetamines... none of these just make you "feel fine". you use cocaine to grow balls on a party, ecstacy and amphetamines to dance all night, mushrooms to introspect, weed to be creative... none of these substances are used to make you "feel fine". except for weed and alcohol. yes, alcohol, cause a shitload of people do drink alcohol just to feel fine. it's called drowning your sorrow. it is very very common. come on, i have proven you wrong now. | ||
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uiCk
Canada1925 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:53 NEOtheONE wrote: Well, there are such things as crack babies, babies that had drugs in their system while in the uterus and are now going through withdrawal since being born (this is why doing drugs while pregnant is a terrible idea), but other than that, no, addicts are made not born. false, genes play big role in the level of vulnerability of addiction. | ||
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Bruky
Czech Republic161 Posts
On October 18 2011 07:20 SupLilSon wrote: + Show Spoiler + On October 18 2011 06:55 Bruky wrote: Well for me I just have to wonder why would anybody start taking drugs (even if it is smoking weed) in the first place? Want to feel cool because it is illegal? If this is the case it absolutely has negative impact on my perception of someone. If it is not the case then you had to start because you wanted to feel better. That's kind of sad so again, it negatively affects my view on a person. I know you cant be happy all the time but to take drugs is just running away from the problems and i dont like this kind of weak aspect of the person. Well you can say that even about alcohol, but despite that its much easier for me to accept somebody who is drinking once a week than if he for example smokes weed. In my opinion there is a big difference between alcohol and drugs. With drugs you dont have any immediate negative effects. If you drink a little too much you will barf, you will feel sick next day and sometimes you wont remember a thing what happened. You hear so many times people say "i wont drink again". But if you overuse marijuana? You gonna feel thirsty and hungry? Oh come one. So its much more dangerous in this way, because it will have affect negatively in long run. The last thing i would like to point out is that people usually drink while partying or whatever. And I think its perfect. You wanna have fun with friends or other people. But in the case of drugs i think there are much more cases when you take it/smoke it by yourself. There are for sure some people who drink alone and tons of people who smoke weed only with friends. I dont wanna say that if somebody smokes weed that it makes him automatically terrible person. But I would like to find out what is the reason behind taking drugs? I just dont see the point and I would like to hear some. Drugs of course. By barfing and so on EVERYONE can understand that its really bad for you health. Thats the main reason why so many wise up as they get older and stop with drinking too much. But in the case of drugs people feel GOOD and next day they dont see any negative reaction. They dont understand its bad for them. And they want to feel amazing AGAIN and AGAIN. Their mindset is not that they feel bad AFTER taking it, but WITHOUT taking it. So there is no relationship like "i took drugs -> i feel bad" like with alcohol, but instead "i didnt take drugs -> i feel bad". And thats only because there are no bad immediate afteraffects like with alcohol. So in my opinion, thats what makes drugs much more dangerous. Of course i dont think that everyone who starts with marihuana will end up like that. But it is a reason why SOME people end up like that  | ||
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beg
991 Posts
On October 18 2011 08:04 Bruky wrote: Drugs of course. By barfing and so on EVERYONE can understand that its really bad for you health. Thats the main reason why so many wise up as they get older and stop with drinking too much. But in the case of drugs people feel GOOD and next day they dont see any negative reaction. They dont understand its bad for them. And they want to feel amazing AGAIN and AGAIN. Their mindset is not that they feel bad AFTER taking it, but WITHOUT taking it. So there is no relationship like "i took drugs -> i feel bad" like with alcohol, but instead "i didnt take drugs -> i feel bad". And thats only because there are no bad immediate afteraffects like with alcohol. So in my opinion, thats what makes drugs much more dangerous. Of course i dont think that everyone who starts with marihuana will end up like that. But it is a reason why SOME people end up like that duuude, stop repeating stuff i've already proven wrong. there definitely are drugs that give you negative effects the next day, like ecstacy or certain hallucigenics which make you puke too. alcohol = drug trust me on this one. and it's a very terrible drug too. it's one of the most addictive and unhealthy things you could get into. | ||
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uiCk
Canada1925 Posts
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Voltaire
United States1485 Posts
On October 18 2011 08:04 Bruky wrote: Drugs of course. By barfing and so on EVERYONE can understand that its really bad for you health. Thats the main reason why so many wise up as they get older and stop with drinking too much. But in the case of drugs people feel GOOD and next day they dont see any negative reaction. They dont understand its bad for them. And they want to feel amazing AGAIN and AGAIN. Their mindset is not that they feel bad AFTER taking it, but WITHOUT taking it. So there is no relationship like "i took drugs -> i feel bad" like with alcohol, but instead "i didnt take drugs -> i feel bad". And thats only because there are no bad immediate afteraffects like with alcohol. So in my opinion, thats what makes drugs much more dangerous. Of course i dont think that everyone who starts with marihuana will end up like that. But it is a reason why SOME people end up like that Again, someone talking about the effects of drugs without having the slightest idea of how they actually affect people. People like to group all illegal drugs together as if they a set of core properties. They don't. How can you say there are no bad immediate "afteraffects"? Where did you pull that out of your ass? | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
there definitely are drugs that give you negative effects the next day, like ecstacy or certain hallucigenics which make you puke too. personally ive always felt amazing the day after doing some molly but thats just me weed has its own hangover. Very negligible, but its there the only time i ever get a "hangover" from weed is if i fall asleep high and sleep for only a few hours, i'll have a very minor headache behind my eyes when i wake up that goes away after about 5 minutes. but again thats just me and my body and how it reacts | ||
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