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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
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Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On November 05 2018 22:04 LemOn wrote:
In general it's important to gauge women's interest and pay attention to it at all times based on her actions. But even moreso in the workplace because of sexual harassment and such
This one ain't so hard, she gave you direct verbal rejection without rebuttal so move on, don't practice in the workplace.
So she had to be available at that exact moment, and I shouldn't take another chance?
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
That’s not it, she just doesn’t sound that interested from what you’ve described. Some people are chattier than others and some will not talk to you like that, but pretty much without exception if she likes you she will want to spend time with you. Sounds like that’s not really the case here.
Lemon is right, that’s about as clear as these get. Probably best to move along.
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On November 05 2018 22:26 mantequilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2018 22:04 LemOn wrote:
In general it's important to gauge women's interest and pay attention to it at all times based on her actions. But even moreso in the workplace because of sexual harassment and such
This one ain't so hard, she gave you direct verbal rejection without rebuttal so move on, don't practice in the workplace.
So she had to be available at that exact moment, and I shouldn't take another chance?
See if there's attraction women make it real easy on ya
In that case if she's really busy she wouldn't just tell you she has an email to write and leave, but tell you to ask her next time, how great that sounds etc. Anything to make the intent she'd like you to repeat the proposal or that she likes the idea at least.
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On November 05 2018 23:08 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2018 22:26 mantequilla wrote:On November 05 2018 22:04 LemOn wrote:
In general it's important to gauge women's interest and pay attention to it at all times based on her actions. But even moreso in the workplace because of sexual harassment and such
This one ain't so hard, she gave you direct verbal rejection without rebuttal so move on, don't practice in the workplace.
So she had to be available at that exact moment, and I shouldn't take another chance? See if there's attraction women make it real easy on ya In that case if she's really busy she wouldn't just tell you she has an email to write and leave, but tell you to ask her next time, how great that sounds etc. Anything to make the intent she'd like you to repeat the proposal or that she likes the idea at least.
This. It's really not that complicated. She has shown 0 signs she is interested in you beyond being a coworker. You asked her out and she rejected you. It's pretty clear.
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lul
a girl I haven't seen for ages (literally years) contacts me out of the blue
Ask her out in 2nd message with time and place after she tells me days she might be free
"That's a bit too specific, I'll let you know"
"Well, that's up to you red,
I'll be there at that time, if you'll be there too I'd like that.
I'll wait 5-10 minutes and them me(we) have to go help out some people in need"
Surprise surprise, she said she'll be there and make the arrangements, "might have to work on a phone a bit during" xD
(it's a Kimchi tasting competition, and we go as judges, you know, to help them )
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Seems Tinder has put in tons of procedures to make it really difficult for you to reset your account  I guess I procrastinated too long and lost my window.
Btw, I had a poll earlier on whether I should ask a girl out directly or not, and decided to just go for it. Then it occurred to me I forgot to update you on how it went... spoilers: poorly. She said yes at first, but my timing was poor because she was sick (which is fair). A few days later she hit me up to tell me that she had spoken with her friend about it, and told me something in the lines of "I think maybe we have different intentions behind that coffee. We probably shouldn't do it. I don't want to lead you on." (Her friend btw, which I earlier had to ask whether the girl was even single or not, seemed supportive. I don't think she trash talked me or anything).
So back to being a lonely and frustrated again, and no idea where to try next.
Where do you guys even start? If you don't have any available girls in your friend circle, and you hate clubbing? It's even difficult to meet new people through hobbies, as I have way too many of them and change them rapidly (side effect of being a nerd and find everything interesting).
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On November 10 2018 04:52 Excludos wrote:Seems Tinder has put in tons of procedures to make it really difficult for you to reset your account I guess I procrastinated too long and lost my window. Btw, I had a poll earlier on whether I should ask a girl out directly or not, and decided to just go for it. Then it occurred to me I forgot to update you on how it went... spoilers: poorly. She said yes at first, but my timing was poor because she was sick (which is fair). A few days later she hit me up to tell me that she had spoken with her friend about it, and told me something in the lines of "I think maybe we have different intentions behind that coffee. We probably shouldn't do it. I don't want to lead you on." (Her friend btw, which I earlier had to ask whether the girl was even single or not, seemed supportive. I don't think she trash talked me or anything). So back to being a lonely and frustrated again, and no idea where to try next. Where do you guys even start? If you don't have any available girls in your friend circle, and you hate clubbing? It's even difficult to meet new people through hobbies, as I have way too many of them and change them rapidly (side effect of being a nerd and find everything interesting).
pick hobbies based on ratios of women
And ignore people that tell you BS like be yourself, it never hurts to try new things believe me 
Often it doesn't mean you'll hit on them but you practice flirting, interacting and get to build circles that have actual women, their female friends in them etc.
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I have a female friend that got out of a relationship and is having a hard time meeting guys, so it's not just one way. I've just told her to keep her eyes open while going about her daily life, which is the best way to meet compatible people, but that doesn't work if you don't meet a lot of people(she works some 70 hour weeks) and if you don't flirt.
I think friends of friends is a good way to meet people. You vet that they're not crazy, have an alright idea of their personality, and they're not so close that you risk burning a valuable friendship.
I remember being lonely and frustrated. It sucks. I got lucky to meet my girlfriend at her work and just happened to have that blossom into a great relationship, but it really feels hopeless when you're on the far side of the hill. Keep your eyes open, make yourself the best catch possible, and practice flirting with people. Maximize your chances of succeeding when you meet someone you're interested in.
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Also, don't make it your lifes purpose to meet someone. That is only going to make you frustrated and miserable. Be patient and do stuff that increases your chances. But always do stuff with a mindset of "If it happens, nice, if not, also okay."
I don't know whether that increases your chances, but it makes you not go insane and depressed.
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United States15275 Posts
On November 10 2018 04:52 Excludos wrote:
Where do you guys even start? If you don't have any available girls in your friend circle, and you hate clubbing? It's even difficult to meet new people through hobbies, as I have way too many of them and change them rapidly (side effect of being a nerd and find everything interesting).
First, don't let desperation cloud your judgment. The only thing worse than being depressed about a lack of options is succumbing to thirst and rearranging your life to accommodate it. Then you'll see yourself as a failure while simultaneously wasting your time halfheartedly engaging in activities you could enjoy otherwise.
Unless you are either inept at interacting with women or have some specific roadblock you can identify, it's best to be generically "attractive". Basic hygiene, exercise at your discretion, prioritizing your goals and motivations over the opinions of others. Focus on a select group of hobbies that lets you set up social circles. Expertise is inversely related to level of exposure (ones that constantly put you in touch with new people allow you to take them casually, and the opposite applies too).
Interesting but old hat. I wouldn't pay $40 for stuff that was figured out 10+ years ago for free, regardless of the belated imprimatur of social science. You can get the same information by talking to other men and exchanging notes.
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So, new girl joined the roleplaying group and we get along well. After two sessions she asks me to join her watch a movie the following day. Pretty much out of the blue for me, i like her, she has potential so i agree. We have a good time, despite the movie being shitty, watch some fireworks aferwards and hit a bar. Everything fine. This wednesday, it's roleplaying again. I take her from her place to the venue as it is hard to get there with public transport and i then also drive her back. While driving back, we agree to meet on Friday again for bowling and i am positive that this could develop into something real, nice
Then, we just agreed on Bowling, she suddenly asks me if i wanted to see her flat (because we talked aboout her having decorated for christmas already, she wants to show me how she decorated) Okay, this never happened before to me, this is new territory, what the fuck is going on. But i agree, she shows me the decoration and then offers me something to drink and i am getting really nervous about this. So we then talk for another hour, normal stuff, absolutely not flirty and then i leave as it is late. On the way out, i am pretty sure that i am the biggest idiot, that she expected a move, that somehow this should have ended differently. That's what Hollywood has always told me, Girl invites Boy to room, proceed directly to next base.
So, this evening, we meet for Bowling and i am pretty sure, that she basically expects me to kiss her, probably lead with it directly. Hi, here's a pretty flower, this is my tongue. I am sorry i did not get the hint on Wednesday, i am not used to the speed. But now i know what to do. I obviously don't do that, we bowl, she beats me like the newb i am at bowling, there is not a lot of time left as we started late and the last train is leaving for me in half an hour. I kinda panic, there has been no real flirting again, i should at least leave her with a kiss for the evening right? But there is simply no moment. We are at the station and this is not the place for the first kiss, it's loud and smelly and what am i gonna do. So we keep talking and 5 minutes before my train arrives i panic and ask her what she sees in me, because that shows selfesteem and stuff! And she is super uncomfortable and says basically: "you are alright, i like to take things slowly, we'll get there, maybe". And my mind is just blown.
Hollywood fucking lied to me! Being invited up to the room does not mean anything. I was so stressed out because in my mind she wanted to escalate things so quickly that i lost the moment. I might have enjoyed today much more if i din't tell me all the time that i had to close this deal somehow. So now i can go back to my old world where the idea of getting laid in the immediate future is nothing but a fantasy. I like that world actually. If she still wants to hang out together i will now be relaxed again. We'll get there maybe.
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United States15275 Posts
You missed whatever opportunity presented itself. Don't sweat it and move on.
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On November 10 2018 10:06 Broetchenholer wrote:So, new girl joined the roleplaying group and we get along well. After two sessions she asks me to join her watch a movie the following day. Pretty much out of the blue for me, i like her, she has potential so i agree. We have a good time, despite the movie being shitty, watch some fireworks aferwards and hit a bar. Everything fine. This wednesday, it's roleplaying again. I take her from her place to the venue as it is hard to get there with public transport and i then also drive her back. While driving back, we agree to meet on Friday again for bowling and i am positive that this could develop into something real, nice Then, we just agreed on Bowling, she suddenly asks me if i wanted to see her flat (because we talked aboout her having decorated for christmas already, she wants to show me how she decorated) Okay, this never happened before to me, this is new territory, what the fuck is going on. But i agree, she shows me the decoration and then offers me something to drink and i am getting really nervous about this. So we then talk for another hour, normal stuff, absolutely not flirty and then i leave as it is late. On the way out, i am pretty sure that i am the biggest idiot, that she expected a move, that somehow this should have ended differently. That's what Hollywood has always told me, Girl invites Boy to room, proceed directly to next base. So, this evening, we meet for Bowling and i am pretty sure, that she basically expects me to kiss her, probably lead with it directly. Hi, here's a pretty flower, this is my tongue. I am sorry i did not get the hint on Wednesday, i am not used to the speed. But now i know what to do. I obviously don't do that, we bowl, she beats me like the newb i am at bowling, there is not a lot of time left as we started late and the last train is leaving for me in half an hour. I kinda panic, there has been no real flirting again, i should at least leave her with a kiss for the evening right? But there is simply no moment. We are at the station and this is not the place for the first kiss, it's loud and smelly and what am i gonna do. So we keep talking and 5 minutes before my train arrives i panic and ask her what she sees in me, because that shows selfesteem and stuff! And she is super uncomfortable and says basically: "you are alright, i like to take things slowly, we'll get there, maybe". And my mind is just blown. Hollywood fucking lied to me! Being invited up to the room does not mean anything. I was so stressed out because in my mind she wanted to escalate things so quickly that i lost the moment. I might have enjoyed today much more if i din't tell me all the time that i had to close this deal somehow. So now i can go back to my old world where the idea of getting laid in the immediate future is nothing but a fantasy. I like that world actually. If she still wants to hang out together i will now be relaxed again. We'll get there maybe.
I think she wanted you to make a move, multiple times, and you missed it making her feel awkward. Unless she is a virgin or really really geeky (which is not out of the question)
NEXT TIME PLAN A WAY TO GET ALONE AND KISS HER STOP WASTING TIME.
You should wait on a few of the regulars hear to confirm my notion though
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Nah
See most guys have this all wrong
Life's not a fucking movie
you don't just turn around in the rain,
sprint to each other's arms and then kiss passionately out of the blue
Live happily ever after
No, you escalate physical contact and read her signs throughout the date from minute one, when there's an indication you move it further, bump into each other, touch her more and more, get closer and close, tease her.
Then pull back, give her space, wait for her to give you any sign she'd like you to get closer again.
That means e.g. you stop touching her completely suddenly, give her space and she moves close to you, looks like a cat (you know the look, when it turns it's neck and looks at you like"wtf you stopped doing that for") Some women will even literally grab your hand almost violently and place it to the area you were touching when you pull away after a few moments, but 9/10 times it's gonna be a lot more subtle.
And you take it further than last time, 2steps forward 1 step back....
And then kissing (and sex) is just like this natural continuation of it all
Only time when it's a big deal is where you didn't do any of that because you were nervous
EDIT: Or just complacent and not present, this happens in long term relationships where you stop paying attention, escalating and pulling back and just basically hang out and then go straight to kiss+sex like a checklist
-I've definitely been guilty of this in my last relationship even though I really should've known better as I know all this stuff
or maybe she was so you didn't get the signs from her and it's like your last resort and you go for it to see if the attraction's still high and she'll play along, and to see where you're at really.
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On November 10 2018 17:06 LemOn wrote:
Nah
See most guys have this all wrong
Life's not a fucking movie
you don't just turn around in the rain,
sprint to each other's arms and then kiss passionately out of the blue
Live happily ever after
No, you escalate physical contact and read her signs throughout the date from minute one, when there's an indication you move it further, bump into each other, touch her more and more, get closer and close, tease her.
Then pull back, give her space, wait for her to give you any sign she'd like you to get closer again.
That means e.g. you stop touching her completely suddenly, give her space and she moves close to you, looks like a cat (you know the look, when it turns it's neck and looks at you like"wtf you stopped doing that for") Some women will even literally grab your hand almost violently and place it to the area you were touching when you pull away after a few moments, but 9/10 times it's gonna be a lot more subtle.
And you take it further than last time, 2steps forward 1 step back....
And then kissing (and sex) is just like this natural continuation of it all
Only time when it's a big deal is where you didn't do any of that because you were nervous
EDIT: Or just complacent and not present, this happens in long term relationships where you stop paying attention, escalating and pulling back and just basically hang out and then go straight to kiss+sex like a checklist
-I've definitely been guilty of this in my last relationship even though I really should've known better as I know all this stuff
or maybe she was so you didn't get the signs from her and it's like your last resort and you go for it to see if the attraction's still high and she'll play along, and to see where you're at really.
I agree with this. From your story, she apparently kinda likes you, but doesn't want to push stuff too hard. You don't have to do the "date 1, kiss, date 3, sex" movie routine. Go about it slow. Show her you are interested without pushing her. Do more stuff with her. From what i can tell, she has taken a lot of initiative so far basically asking you out to do stuff. So do the same. Ask her to do fun (not sexy/romantic) stuff together. Do some (non-sexual) body contact and watch how she reacts.
And the nice thing about this is that even if you completely misread the situation, you can score a good friend instead of a lover, which is also nice. You clearly enjoy being around her.
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On November 10 2018 21:22 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2018 17:06 LemOn wrote:
Nah
See most guys have this all wrong
Life's not a fucking movie
you don't just turn around in the rain,
sprint to each other's arms and then kiss passionately out of the blue
Live happily ever after
No, you escalate physical contact and read her signs throughout the date from minute one, when there's an indication you move it further, bump into each other, touch her more and more, get closer and close, tease her.
Then pull back, give her space, wait for her to give you any sign she'd like you to get closer again.
That means e.g. you stop touching her completely suddenly, give her space and she moves close to you, looks like a cat (you know the look, when it turns it's neck and looks at you like"wtf you stopped doing that for") Some women will even literally grab your hand almost violently and place it to the area you were touching when you pull away after a few moments, but 9/10 times it's gonna be a lot more subtle.
And you take it further than last time, 2steps forward 1 step back....
And then kissing (and sex) is just like this natural continuation of it all
Only time when it's a big deal is where you didn't do any of that because you were nervous
EDIT: Or just complacent and not present, this happens in long term relationships where you stop paying attention, escalating and pulling back and just basically hang out and then go straight to kiss+sex like a checklist
-I've definitely been guilty of this in my last relationship even though I really should've known better as I know all this stuff
or maybe she was so you didn't get the signs from her and it's like your last resort and you go for it to see if the attraction's still high and she'll play along, and to see where you're at really. I agree with this. From your story, she apparently kinda likes you, but doesn't want to push stuff too hard. .
That's what not I'm saying at all, she was open to have sex almost right off the bat that's pretty clear, it takes a very rare level of interest of a woman in you to be this forward with little little testing.
All that I said is WITHIN ONE DATE, literally a couple hours. But instead of thinking about a kiss think about the whole thing as being an escalating romantic experience, whether it's gentle touches eye contact or fucking like rabbits.
It's true that I'd ask her out now, literally state that it's a date, in the evening make sure there's an opportunity for sex to happen later logistically (but it's not your goal really - SHE will decide how far you take it indirectly but YOU take the actual actions, based on her signs)
And then greet her with a big hug, and slowly but surely escalate contact, pull back when she moves away and/or just to build anticipation then go further than you did last time, the more signs and the faster she comes back the quicker and further you take things, and honestly you will sleep with her in 1-2 dates even though you screwed things up real hard by asking where you stand (fucking hell man), she seems to really like you.
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Edit: Timing lemon, timing. This reply was obviously meant for Simbertos post:
Yeah, i am not too worried, i am back in my previous mindset of taking things slowly and see where it leads. I was so overwhelmed by the perceived invitation to skip pleasantries that i put a lot of pressure on myself to cater to that in a way that is not natural to me and i am sure that it showed.
I do not think i actually missed an "opening" either, or i missed a lot of signs besides beng at her place. And even if that was the shot i had and i just friendzoned myself by not showing more initiative i would not want to be in a relationship where one side just turns on and off physical attraction between 3 days The only way i lose in the present scenario is if we get together in the end and it does not work out spectacurlarly, making roleplaying awkward. But that's not the biggest concern.
Edit: Now to your last post:
I don't think your general idea of how to escalate flirting is wrong in order to test/create/improve interest. I am really bad at this and i believe in a more friendship based approach that usually puts me firmly in the friendzone. I am okay with that, it's better then being flirty, gettin into bed with people on some attraction and then realizing that there was not much more then the thrill of the hunt. Should i get better with the small steps, yay, but i kinda doubt it Where i disagree with you is the part about her obviously being "dtf" right away. There is literally one tell i presented you with that points to that and all the rest of the post says that is not what actually happened. All i was trying to say is, sometimes hollywood tells are not what hollywood says. I am curious to know why she chose to invite me up but i would advise anybody against taking something like that as proof of intentions of a woman.
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See this is what women do - put themselves in your orbit, make things nice and easy for ya, that's their way of taking action. And then it's up to you to do the job and steer it whenever you want to steer it, she's already gone way above what women Do usually.
But it seems like you're not into her? I'm sure it seemed like that to her
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But you will find out soon enough, if you keep being friends but she keeps inviting you to places, being in your orbit and her apartment the same way with the same frequency, she really was not opening herself up to you to take romantic action and I know nothing about dating
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EPT
