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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
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Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On October 24 2018 22:50 LemOn wrote:
See I'm a poker pro, and I studied behavioral economics and psychology and have done meditation for some 10 yeara. I guess that's why it's so much easier for me to forgive people, I see through the illusion of rationality, most decisions are entirely made, or heavily influenced by the sub conscious. Unless you are dating a psychopath at that breaking point of a relationship the uncontrollable part of the brain takes over and people do the worst things that can easily can be explained to make sense and forgiven also.
And even if you are dating a psychopath hey - would you really hold it against them that they manipulate people by any means necessary to maximise their own gain? It's just in their nature
I had a dream where the Dalai-Lama told me it’s ok to fuck people up if they deserve it though. I also read the fable of the scorpion and the frog 2 times and have seen drive.
There are psychopath who manage to not be assholes. Not a psychopath but I struggle with empathy quite a bit myself and that’s no excuse past child age. The first part of your post might be defendable, but the second one is just hilarious. Of the top of my head I can only think of lack of free will as justification for it, but even if you believe in that most philosophers agree that you still have to act / judge as if free will exists because it influences your "decisions".
I swear the more fundamental the topics are the weirder the discussions get in here. Might as well ditch it at this point.
Bonus meme: What if not forgiving certain acts is in my nature? 
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On October 25 2018 00:24 waffelz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2018 22:50 LemOn wrote:
See I'm a poker pro, and I studied behavioral economics and psychology and have done meditation for some 10 yeara. I guess that's why it's so much easier for me to forgive people, I see through the illusion of rationality, most decisions are entirely made, or heavily influenced by the sub conscious. Unless you are dating a psychopath at that breaking point of a relationship the uncontrollable part of the brain takes over and people do the worst things that can easily can be explained to make sense and forgiven also.
And even if you are dating a psychopath hey - would you really hold it against them that they manipulate people by any means necessary to maximise their own gain? It's just in their nature I had a dream where the Dalai-Lama told me it’s ok to fuck people up if they deserve it though. I also read the fable of the scorpion and the frog 2 times and have seen drive. There are psychopath who manage to not be assholes. Not a psychopath but I struggle with empathy quite a bit myself and that’s no excuse past child age. The first part of your post might be defendable, but the second one is just hilarious. Of the top of my head I can only think of lack of free will as justification for it, but even if you believe in that most philosophers agree that you still have to act / judge as if free will exists because it influences your "decisions". I swear the more fundamental the topics are the weirder the discussions get in here. Might as well ditch it at this point. Bonus meme: What if not forgiving certain acts is in my nature?
"Mr. Harris I agree with you... There is no free will and we are a bunch of atoms in a rock floating on a meaningless universe.... What do I tell my 5 year old daughter?"
"*Screeching silence*"
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United States15275 Posts
Behavorial economics and psychology are hardly truthful disciplines. Their reliance on the subconscious as catalyst and explanation is tautological as they (naturally) lack the analytical framework to account for intentional decision-making. If they didn't advocate irrationality as the baseline of human behavior, they couldn't exist.
I'm not a fan of forgiveness in regards to cheating. First, it naturally establishes a relationship where there's no will to enforce basic social expectations or boundaries. Outside of a deontological ethical system (e.g. cheating is insufferable regardless of circumstance), forgiveness mostly benefits one's self by purging negative emotions. You can get the same results by being self-centered, divesting investment in romantic connections, or learning how to depersonalize interactions and memories of them at will. The second is it benefits the cheater more than the injured party. A girl forgiven of her past indiscretions gets a free pass (in her mind) to continue flaunting the same behavior. After all, the impact and severity of the injustice was alleviated by your gallantry; why shouldn't others display the same? It is a disservice to their potential partners later on in life.
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On October 25 2018 00:24 waffelz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2018 22:50 LemOn wrote:
See I'm a poker pro, and I studied behavioral economics and psychology and have done meditation for some 10 yeara. I guess that's why it's so much easier for me to forgive people, I see through the illusion of rationality, most decisions are entirely made, or heavily influenced by the sub conscious. Unless you are dating a psychopath at that breaking point of a relationship the uncontrollable part of the brain takes over and people do the worst things that can easily can be explained to make sense and forgiven also.
And even if you are dating a psychopath hey - would you really hold it against them that they manipulate people by any means necessary to maximise their own gain? It's just in their nature I had a dream where the Dalai-Lama told me it’s ok to fuck people up if they deserve it though. I also read the fable of the scorpion and the frog 2 times and have seen drive. There are psychopath who manage to not be assholes. Not a psychopath but I struggle with empathy quite a bit myself and that’s no excuse past child age. The first part of your post might be defendable, but the second one is just hilarious. Of the top of my head I can only think of lack of free will as justification for it, but even if you believe in that most philosophers agree that you still have to act / judge as if free will exists because it influences your "decisions". I swear the more fundamental the topics are the weirder the discussions get in here. Might as well ditch it at this point. Bonus meme: What if not forgiving certain acts is in my nature?
It's not lack of free will
But rather acting emotionally rather than rationally
Which happens in I'd say 95% + cases of cheating
Unless I'm being naive here - do some women actually rationally seek to hurt someone they are in a relationship for rational gain? Where's the gain there
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On October 25 2018 04:57 LemOn wrote:
It's not lack of free will
But rather acting emotionally rather than rationally
Which happens in I'd say 95% + cases of cheating
Unless I'm being naive here - do some women actually rationally seek to hurt someone they are in a relationship for rational gain? Where's the gain there
I like to believe that we are able to not act upon our immediate emotions, putting some edge cases aside. Also its not about personal gain but even when it comes to that I have to agree with Cosmicspiral for once.
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United States15275 Posts
On October 25 2018 04:57 LemOn wrote:
It's not lack of free will
But rather acting emotionally rather than rationally
Which happens in I'd say 95% + cases of cheating
Unless I'm being naive here - do some women actually rationally seek to hurt someone they are in a relationship for rational gain? Where's the gain there
Yes. There are plenty of instances that involve direct and indirect cheating as well as securing whatever type of dynamic she desires in the relationship.
- Hiding one's immodest sexual past.
- Lying about pregnancy to pressure the SO into marriage. There are forums dedicated to acquiring fake pregnancy tests along with other means of forcing the subject to commit to a financially beneficial LTR.
- Keeping contact with exes in secret.
- Exploiting emotional weakness by undermining their partner's confidence and integrity. You'll see this when a woman incessantly harps on her husband's mediocre job or compares him to her past boyfriends to find him wanting. This makes the target pliable to subsequent manipulation.
- Hindering the SO's business and social prospects so he isn't tempted to trade her out for a better catch. Largely born from insecurity but it's a perfectly logical strategy if the girl is frightened by competition.
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1) is absolutely alright
2)appears to me to be an extreme Fringe thing. If you want to avoid that, use protection
3) is absolutely acceptable. You don't have to hate your ex
4) this is unacceptable in general.
5) see next paragraph
I find your characterisation focuses too much on women being the weak part of the relationship (financial beneficial ltr) albeit being the controlling and Evil mastermind. This is not to be generalised and without proper context, I.e your own experience, andreeks of MGOTW or some incel women are the devil stuff.
E: out of curiosity, what's indirect cheating?
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Didn't end up contacting my ex because I met this girl on Saturday night. It was actually my third time meeting her, this time at KTV with my friends as I invited her over and she showed up with her friends at like 2AM to sing and drink for a bit. Then I stayed with her till 5AM, after dropping her friends off half an hour earlier. I know for a fact we're into each other very much, as I explicitly said I want a friendship, maybe more with her. We have already kissed, held hands for a bit, and hooked up a bit with each other.
I've been trying everyday to see her but I think I'm being too desperate so I'm dialing it back. Still, she got sick early this week so I was going to surprise her with some congee yesterday but she had her phone on silent so that surprise failed. The good news is I'm not in danger of jeopardizing our relationship since we're seeing each other this weekend. Her friends and my friends are coming over for a Halloween party. But between now and Saturday, what are some ways for me to keep her engaged with me via texting? Our texting conversation feels dull and this is something I need to learn and work on.
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There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex
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On October 25 2018 05:33 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2018 04:57 LemOn wrote:
It's not lack of free will
But rather acting emotionally rather than rationally
Which happens in I'd say 95% + cases of cheating
Unless I'm being naive here - do some women actually rationally seek to hurt someone they are in a relationship for rational gain? Where's the gain there
Yes. There are plenty of instances that involve direct and indirect cheating as well as securing whatever type of dynamic she desires in the relationship. - Hiding one's immodest sexual past.
- Lying about pregnancy to pressure the SO into marriage. There are forums dedicated to acquiring fake pregnancy tests along with other means of forcing the subject to commit to a financially beneficial LTR.
- Keeping contact with exes in secret.
- Exploiting emotional weakness by undermining their partner's confidence and integrity. You'll see this when a woman incessantly harps on her husband's mediocre job or compares him to her past boyfriends to find him wanting. This makes the target pliable to subsequent manipulation.
- Hindering the SO's business and social prospects so he isn't tempted to trade her out for a better catch. Largely born from insecurity but it's a perfectly logical strategy if the girl is frightened by competition.
None of these is actual cheating?
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On October 25 2018 17:43 LemOn wrote:
There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex
Is it? My friends said it was really cute that I tried to bring her food because she was sick. Especially since she is into me.
Yah I'm dialing it back but I still need to ask what kind of food they want for the party lol. It's just that in my experience with past women, they lost interest in me because our texting conversation was bland. Been reading on the Internet on how to spice things up but they feel very click bait.
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On October 25 2018 22:11 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2018 17:43 LemOn wrote:
There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex Is it? My friends said it was really cute that I tried to bring her food because she was sick. Especially since she is into me. Yah I'm dialing it back but I still need to ask what kind of food they want for the party lol. It's just that in my experience with past women, they lost interest in me because our texting conversation was bland. Been reading on the Internet on how to spice things up but they feel very click bait.
You don't want to go overboard, but to some extent it doesn't really matter. Even some things that are genuinely somewhat stalkerish/clingy are very readily forgiven when there's mutual attraction. If you're generally a normal person and not predisposed to go way overboard there, then worry less about doing things "right" because that ends up just being a whole lot of mental overhead for nothing.
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On October 25 2018 22:03 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2018 05:33 CosmicSpiral wrote:On October 25 2018 04:57 LemOn wrote:
It's not lack of free will
But rather acting emotionally rather than rationally
Which happens in I'd say 95% + cases of cheating
Unless I'm being naive here - do some women actually rationally seek to hurt someone they are in a relationship for rational gain? Where's the gain there
Yes. There are plenty of instances that involve direct and indirect cheating as well as securing whatever type of dynamic she desires in the relationship. - Hiding one's immodest sexual past.
- Lying about pregnancy to pressure the SO into marriage. There are forums dedicated to acquiring fake pregnancy tests along with other means of forcing the subject to commit to a financially beneficial LTR.
- Keeping contact with exes in secret.
- Exploiting emotional weakness by undermining their partner's confidence and integrity. You'll see this when a woman incessantly harps on her husband's mediocre job or compares him to her past boyfriends to find him wanting. This makes the target pliable to subsequent manipulation.
- Hindering the SO's business and social prospects so he isn't tempted to trade her out for a better catch. Largely born from insecurity but it's a perfectly logical strategy if the girl is frightened by competition.
None of these is actual cheating?
Not cheating, but if my gf did any of these I would dump her pretty fast.
A supportive partner, emotionally and to my work is something a value highly on her. Moreover she is VERY frugal which I love, cause I hate expending lol.
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On October 25 2018 22:19 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2018 22:11 geokilla wrote:On October 25 2018 17:43 LemOn wrote:
There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex Is it? My friends said it was really cute that I tried to bring her food because she was sick. Especially since she is into me. Yah I'm dialing it back but I still need to ask what kind of food they want for the party lol. It's just that in my experience with past women, they lost interest in me because our texting conversation was bland. Been reading on the Internet on how to spice things up but they feel very click bait. You don't want to go overboard, but to some extent it doesn't really matter. Even some things that are genuinely somewhat stalkerish/clingy are very readily forgiven when there's mutual attraction. If you're generally a normal person and not predisposed to go way overboard there, then worry less about doing things "right" because that ends up just being a whole lot of mental overhead for nothing.
Yeah you'll be burning through the attraction pretty fast acting like Geokilla's wishy washy acting combined with borderline stalkerish behaviour, it it's really high though you might hit the 3 month mark ish. And if she's not centered/confident herself we might be talking a couple years 
I mean maybe I'm wrong, maybe you bring food to all your friends you have known for a week or so, male or female when sick and it's just who you are, that'd be a different thing I suppose, and you should definitely stick to that.
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On October 26 2018 06:09 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2018 22:19 LegalLord wrote:On October 25 2018 22:11 geokilla wrote:On October 25 2018 17:43 LemOn wrote:
There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex Is it? My friends said it was really cute that I tried to bring her food because she was sick. Especially since she is into me. Yah I'm dialing it back but I still need to ask what kind of food they want for the party lol. It's just that in my experience with past women, they lost interest in me because our texting conversation was bland. Been reading on the Internet on how to spice things up but they feel very click bait. You don't want to go overboard, but to some extent it doesn't really matter. Even some things that are genuinely somewhat stalkerish/clingy are very readily forgiven when there's mutual attraction. If you're generally a normal person and not predisposed to go way overboard there, then worry less about doing things "right" because that ends up just being a whole lot of mental overhead for nothing. Yeah you'll be burning through the attraction pretty fast acting like Geokilla's wishy washy acting combined with borderline stalkerish behaviour, it it's really high though you might hit the 3 month mark ish. And if she's not centered/confident herself we might be talking a couple years I mean maybe I'm wrong, maybe you bring food to all your friends you have known for a week or so, male or female when sick and it's just who you are, that'd be a different thing I suppose, and you should definitely stick to that.
Well we've known each other for almost 2 months now. Just that we only saw each other 3 times in those two months. But the mutual attraction is there so I wanted to surprise her. I get what you mean though.
I just get friend zoned easy lol. But let's see how Saturday goes I guess. Invited her and her friends to have hot pot together with my friends and I. They all met each other last Saturday at karaoke. Simultaneously, she invited me to meet up with her friends but they didn't set a date on when they're going KTV yet. Hope it won't be the last I hear from her cus it's been radio silent today.
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Don't talk to her like a guy friend. Talk to her like she's a girl you're interested in. I think a lot of guys never learn how to talk to women in a flirting manner, or heavily overdo it. I guess that's what dating advice is for.
From what I've read from LemOn previously he has a pretty good lock on that sort of stuff.
I remember a lot of good sites on social skills, especially dating social skills that I used when I was younger, but I can't remember their names.
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On October 26 2018 08:07 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 06:09 LemOn wrote:On October 25 2018 22:19 LegalLord wrote:On October 25 2018 22:11 geokilla wrote:On October 25 2018 17:43 LemOn wrote:
There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex Is it? My friends said it was really cute that I tried to bring her food because she was sick. Especially since she is into me. Yah I'm dialing it back but I still need to ask what kind of food they want for the party lol. It's just that in my experience with past women, they lost interest in me because our texting conversation was bland. Been reading on the Internet on how to spice things up but they feel very click bait. You don't want to go overboard, but to some extent it doesn't really matter. Even some things that are genuinely somewhat stalkerish/clingy are very readily forgiven when there's mutual attraction. If you're generally a normal person and not predisposed to go way overboard there, then worry less about doing things "right" because that ends up just being a whole lot of mental overhead for nothing. Yeah you'll be burning through the attraction pretty fast acting like Geokilla's wishy washy acting combined with borderline stalkerish behaviour, it it's really high though you might hit the 3 month mark ish. And if she's not centered/confident herself we might be talking a couple years I mean maybe I'm wrong, maybe you bring food to all your friends you have known for a week or so, male or female when sick and it's just who you are, that'd be a different thing I suppose, and you should definitely stick to that. Well we've known each other for almost 2 months now. Just that we only saw each other 3 times in those two months. But the mutual attraction is there so I wanted to surprise her. I get what you mean though. I just get friend zoned easy lol. But let's see how Saturday goes I guess. Invited her and her friends to have hot pot together with my friends and I. They all met each other last Saturday at karaoke. Simultaneously, she invited me to meet up with her friends but they didn't set a date on when they're going KTV yet. Hope it won't be the last I hear from her cus it's been radio silent today.
You're friendzoning yourself as we speak my friend
And I know you mentioned you and your ex never had actual sex, I express myself that way strongly and would drive me nuts really, you just know she's doing it now eventually with someone else. I know other guys are different though/
And you're creating an environment where you're heading that way also now
Are these things you'd mind terribly?
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On October 26 2018 15:37 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2018 08:07 geokilla wrote:On October 26 2018 06:09 LemOn wrote:On October 25 2018 22:19 LegalLord wrote:On October 25 2018 22:11 geokilla wrote:On October 25 2018 17:43 LemOn wrote:
There's no relationship to begin with, you're just acquaintances that barely know each other
You can't know if you want her yet because you don't really know her
And you're being really needy/stalkerish and will lose this one sooner or later, if you're lucky it might take 3+months,
But do what you do, I think any experience is good after being hung-up on one ex Is it? My friends said it was really cute that I tried to bring her food because she was sick. Especially since she is into me. Yah I'm dialing it back but I still need to ask what kind of food they want for the party lol. It's just that in my experience with past women, they lost interest in me because our texting conversation was bland. Been reading on the Internet on how to spice things up but they feel very click bait. You don't want to go overboard, but to some extent it doesn't really matter. Even some things that are genuinely somewhat stalkerish/clingy are very readily forgiven when there's mutual attraction. If you're generally a normal person and not predisposed to go way overboard there, then worry less about doing things "right" because that ends up just being a whole lot of mental overhead for nothing. Yeah you'll be burning through the attraction pretty fast acting like Geokilla's wishy washy acting combined with borderline stalkerish behaviour, it it's really high though you might hit the 3 month mark ish. And if she's not centered/confident herself we might be talking a couple years I mean maybe I'm wrong, maybe you bring food to all your friends you have known for a week or so, male or female when sick and it's just who you are, that'd be a different thing I suppose, and you should definitely stick to that. Well we've known each other for almost 2 months now. Just that we only saw each other 3 times in those two months. But the mutual attraction is there so I wanted to surprise her. I get what you mean though. I just get friend zoned easy lol. But let's see how Saturday goes I guess. Invited her and her friends to have hot pot together with my friends and I. They all met each other last Saturday at karaoke. Simultaneously, she invited me to meet up with her friends but they didn't set a date on when they're going KTV yet. Hope it won't be the last I hear from her cus it's been radio silent today. You're friendzoning yourself as we speak my friend And I know you mentioned you and your ex never had actual sex, I express myself that way strongly and would drive me nuts really, you just know she's doing it now eventually with someone else. I know other guys are different though/ And you're creating an environment where you're heading that way also now Are these things you'd mind terribly?
Not at all. I'd love to fuck her but I just thought that at 4AM in a bathroom with her two friends waiting outside would be weird as hell.
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You should probably look to initiate events for 2, instead of always making a party with everyone out of it.
Right now you are seemingly maneuvering yourself into the "another friend who is great to have around for parties" corner.
And there is nothing wrong about asking for something for just you 2. The answer will also be pretty telling about her understanding of the current situation.
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United States15275 Posts
Meeting as a group is a double-edged sword. As comfortable as it might initially be to have your friends' presence, you will have to deal with her friends' judgment whenever you want to do anything remotely sexual. At the very least, have vague ideas of places you two can go once the main event ends. Don't hinder yourself by being too passive in the hope something will magically click at the hot pot.
For texting, being playful and irreverent is a good base for maintaining intrigue.
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EPT
