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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On October 16 2018 16:00 LemOn wrote:
Yeah see this is the thing, when you're single and you don't have sex 2-3 times per week
Does "increased male apathy, increased male neediness" really happen to you?
Like would you really feel apathy, and become a needy person if you had awesome loving sex only one time per week or even month on average with a drop dead gorgeous woman with high chemistry when single?
You can definitely become needy about sex if you were single and only getting it once a week. Absolutely if you're just getting a random ONS once or month. Dependibility of said sex plays a part in the neediness. If you're in a relationship and only see this person once every two weeks but when you do you're going to rock each others world....probably not much neediness. If you're single getting random, one night stand sex, on an unpredictable basis then yes definitely you can become needy.
The apathy comment comes from the "you want sex 2-3 times a week, and you're maybe getting it once a week or less". Yes. This can cause apathy in response to the subtle frustration/lack of satisfaction. If you're hungry and don't get feed, its's goind to affect your mood. If you don't exercise it's going to affect your mood. If you don't have sex as often as your biology wants, it's going to affect your mood.
My opinion is that lack of sex has significant health consequences. That alone is worth paying attention to. Beyond that, depending on how infrequent, and depending on the quality of the sex, it can have anywhere from a very subtle effect on a relationship to a significant one.
On October 16 2018 16:00 LemOn wrote:
This was my big fucking a-ha moment and why 95% of guys suck in long term relationships, because they start unloading their needs and life satisfaction onto their partner. It shouldn't damn matter if you're single for 5 years and dust would fly off your cock if you use it
Or if you've been married for 30
The main thing is to be a complete, self-reliant person as much as possible when it comes to life satisfaction, circle of friends and emotional needs, and your partner makes your life only better but you don't NEED her. What happens to almost everyone they become complacent, let themselves go, stay in shit careers, stop doing awesome things on their own, stop making new friends start unloading on their partner instead of a network of friends and then start needing sex to feel alive in life.
Bingo. Strongly agree here. Only part I would question is the bolded. I'm not sure it's needed to feel alive. I think it's needed because it's well...a biological need. It's on par with eating, drinking, shelter, exercise, etc. It's a biological imperative. We are programmed to need to reproduce, i.e. have sex. Not doing so leaves us unfulfilled on that need and less healthy and harms our mental faculties.
I think what you're doing is taking my "It's very important to have sex a few times a week" and turning it into "Sex is the most important thing in a relationship". It is my opinion that most people in this thread are downplaying the value of consistent sex.
Sex in a relationship IS important. To imply it isn't is either misguided or disingenuous.
On October 16 2018 16:00 LemOn wrote:
Which then leads to the shitty circle, where they start to push for the symptom, woman's attraction and sex frequency dropping because of their neediness and apathy as you say, instead of actually fixing the causes of being a self-reliant person emotionally she fell in love with (and wanted to hump the brains out of constantly) in the first place.
Yes, I generally agree with this. But these things also happen in relationships where guys don't make the mistake you talked about above, and sex frequency drops, as does attraction. I've talked about this before, and Atrtistreal also posted an article about a similar phenomena earlier. There is strong evidence to suggest that women are more or less biologically programmed to lose attraction over time, irrespective of how awesome you are as a partner. The better you are as a partner like you mentioned, the slower and lesser degree this might happen, but it will happen.
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On October 17 2018 06:03 WarSame wrote:
I do find making sure she orgasms distracts me from mine. I kinda prefer eating her out till she cums then plowing away.
Whatever is fun for you! It can vary for me but usually I'll foreplay for a bit, fuck a little, make her cum, back to fucking a little more and then cum myself. Of course it varies depending on the woman, my mood, her mood, and what the tea leaves say.
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On October 17 2018 03:13 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2018 09:44 bo1b wrote:
I have doubt that most of the women clamoring to be with him are for any reason other than money and fame. In that sort of bubble, he is king. Fame is an aphrodisiac like no other and all attraction is context-dependent. Getting a woman to orgasm is largely about inducing a certain mindset in her. Guys in general either assume it's some esoteric process or they focus too much on physical stimulation, only to get frustrated when the latter proves insufficient. You have to both arouse and engage her prior to any sort of penetration. This can start as early as the initial moments when you meet up or 5 minutes before getting down to business. Either way it's not a great mystery. Girls are a lot more finicky in what turns them on but you can figure it out. Just don't get paranoid if you don't hit jackpot on every spin. It's important to know how to make her orgasm even if you can't guarantee it every time. For her it's psychologically imperative that she believes her partner has the capacity to do so or he/she is the type of guy who ought to enjoy one. It's not uncommon for girls to fake orgasms simply because she wants the other guy to stick around. The ability also grants a lot of slack in terms of what else she will tolerate in the relationship.
Another reason I think this is relevant. I have absolutely noticed this. It's not a subtle difference either. When the sex is good, and she knows you can make it good anytime (orgasm is a relevant part of this), the difference is dramatic. Quality of sex life has a noticeable impact on relationship quality and her behavior towards you.
As for everything else, yes definitely. If the mood/vibe/style aren't right, you can be a god with your hands of tongue and she flat out won't cum. Whereas 99% of guys, from what I hear from women and what they personally describe, just need a little stimulation and boom, done.
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It goes both ways though. Good sex helps the relationship and a good relationship helps the sex.
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On October 17 2018 07:59 WarSame wrote:
It goes both ways though. Good sex helps the relationship and a good relationship helps the sex.
I would definitely agree.
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All my sex is way better when I legitimately like the girl. Like wanting to spend time with her and just being around her presence. I find huge satisfaction in wanting to please her to the best of my abilities.
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Sorry boys I won't join the discussion, sex seems like a non-issue to me, last few years I'd always get women off, worked on meditation being present etc. I listened shitloads of hours of podcasts from a lesbian couple, a midwife, pickup artists even neurochemist, read books like one on sexual intelligence, practiced a lot and can last as long as I want, have a good control over it.
Maybe it's actually not very good, women will stay with you longer even though it's not working and you miss signals there are big problems when the sex itself is perpetually great
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Alright guys
I'm actually taking a different approach to dating this time around
it just dawned on me that 3.5years back I was terrible with women, so it made sense to focus all my energy to practice as much as I can and chase them as much as I can so I get experience and confidence in the area.
I needed the validation after I got dumped in the first week that women still want me and I can attract them (They do and I can) because it felt like shit.
But now that's subsided, I haven't even looked at a picture of my Ex since then this time around I'll take a long term approach instead, and instead of focusing on dating I'm focusing on building a network of friends, acquaintances and just expanding my social circle.
So that
1) meeting and finding vetted women will come naturally
2) I'll have both female and male friends in different social areas so can dive into different social circles, have always the opportunity to do so with minimal effort after the first big burst of contact building work
3) Being in a serious relationships will not affect me at all in the future...when you just chase multiple women you have this active social life And when you commit then BAM it just vanishes, that damn fucking sucks :D
4) I can just unload my shit and problems on unsuspecting acquaintances, and just be there completely present when I'm dating
5) practice being playful +charming with women in general so I can treat them all the same and stay calm when one that knocks my sock off comes around that always throws me off-balance
It's some hardcore shit, I go to an international meetup, work the room try to talk to most people
Then write down what i remember the next day in a file by name
And contact those I can just remembering why it was cool to talk to them that I have contact on
and then just make time to hang out with cool people men or women individually
Problem so far that I'm still to hung up on the most attractive women I meet I feel, I really want to be great with people in general, and if I really like a woman get her number after not overly long attention to her in the group and go on a date later on.
And drinking, I'm gonna cut that out or reserve it to much lower amounts, it's kinda taking it's toll, I've been all over the place last 2 weeks met so many people but even though I drink 3 beers tops it can get pretty tiring when I'm working out a lot at the same time
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On October 18 2018 00:24 LemOn wrote:
Alright guys
I'm actually taking a different approach to dating this time around
it just dawned on me that 3.5years back I was terrible with women, so it made sense to focus all my energy to practice as much as I can and chase them as much as I can so I get experience and confidence in the area.
I needed the validation after I got dumped in the first week that women still want me and I can attract them (They do and I can) because it felt like shit.
But now that's subsided, I haven't even looked at a picture of my Ex since then this time around I'll take a long term approach instead, and instead of focusing on dating I'm focusing on building a network of friends, acquaintances and just expanding my social circle.
So that
1) meeting and finding vetted women will come naturally
2) I'll have both female and male friends in different social areas so can dive into different social circles, have always
3) Being in a serious relationships will not affect me at all in the future...when you just chase multiple women you have this active social life And when you commit then BAM it just vanishes, that damn fucking sucks :D
4) I can just unload my shit and problems on unsuspecting acquaintances, and just be there completely present when I'm dating
5) practice being playful +charming with women in general so I can treat them all the same and stay calm when one that knocks my sock off comes around that always throws me off-balance
It's some hardcore shit, I go to an international meetup, work the room try to talk to most people
Then write down what i remember the next day in a file by name
And contact those I can just remembering why it was cool to talk to them that I have contact on
and then just make time to hang out with cool people men or women individually
Problem so far that I'm still to hung up on the most attractive women I meet I feel, I really want to be great with people in general, and if I really like a woman get her number after not overly long attention to her in the group and go on a date later on.
And drinking, I'm gonna cut that out or reserve it to much lower amounts, it's kinda taking it's toll, I've been all over the place last 2 weeks met so many people but even though I drink 3 beers tops it can get pretty tiring when I'm working out a lot at the same time
If you can manage this, more power to you. These are all really goals to aspire to, personal and social improvement.
I don't think it's a huge problem to talk more to the ones you find most attractive, unless you feel like you could fit in more people to talk and hang out with.
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I'm talkin' leaning towards her in a group setting, seeking her out constantly+ tuning out others including the host after getting tipsy. Which makes you look like any other guy and actually lowers your chances hah.
Ideally you are social and have a great time with everyone (when it's a closed settings event) and she starts gravitating towards you sooner or later anyways. Nothing wrong with solo bar settings where people rotate in and out I agree
I've just deleted dating apps as those are useless+a waste of time for the social long term dating+life expected value approach btw, RIP tinder gold I got a week ago. If anything it helped me recognise solid pictures to update my online presence when someone googles me at least
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@L_Master
for me the primary blindspot you have demonstrated in the last few pages has to so with your lack of experience of LTRs in general
ive been doing the open thing longer than you have, and when you are truly “single” and live by yourself and have your own space it is much much easier as a guy to meet new women.
everything changes when you start to make more serious commitments to one woman. rather than jumping straight to considering something like marriage (which whatever its downsides provides real legal benefits, if for example, you want to have kids), consider moving in with a partner.
the interest from other women plummets off a cliff when you live with someone. this suggests that when you are dating multiple people, but still “single” in a certain sense, each woman still views herself as perhaps your “main” commitment, or possibly future “main” commitment. once you move in, women would rather not bother wasting time w you, especially when you are just one of many on a market full of more unattached men. this leads to even more significant investment of your time to find new people to “date” at all, let alone for any significant length of time
this should not be considered a hard argument against what you are doing now, or even against “keeping it open” indefinitely. but my experience is that the way you are describing it now, where you are in control, awash in opportunity, etc. is not the whole picture. it is more like a life phase where you are at a local peak in dating market desirability which only stays open insofar as you dont get too attached to any one person. problems get thornier when you consider the fact that while women are much less likely to want to give a shot to a guy living with another woman, many men have no compunctions about dating and sleeping w a woman who says she’s similarly committed to another man.
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Hey guys,
I've been working on myself, and I've come to the realization that I have some serious baggage that I need to resolve before I start getting into it seriously with the next girl(s). Generally, I think I'm a kind person, but I've realized that I have these moments of extreme narcissism that totally destroy my chances to find any lasting love. The women who I've had the most success with have been the co-dependent types that like my narcissistic tendencies in dating, and sort of want it to be doomed. This isn't a tenable way to keep dating.
I've been totally sober for over 52 days (no weed, no drinking, no porn, no masturbation), and it's a constant source of confidence for me. I know you're probably gonna think, "But masturbating is good for you". Well, if you saw the damage I've done to myself, you'd know it isn't for everyone. Next, I'm gonna start layering on becoming more of a morning person. Hopefully, eventually, I'll be so self-satisfied that I'll be ready to jump into things with women and actually expect them to work. Also, I'm doing breathing exercises and focusing on becoming more present to counter the narcissism thing. Gotta make myself good first, I figure.
Thanks for being such a great community.
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Set an alarm to get out of bed at 6 every day, and actually get out of bed. In less than a week it'll be an ingrained habit. Also, if you want to actually be good to go when you wake up, stop drinking coffee.
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My life has been infinitely better when I set my biological clock to wake me up at 5am (sometimes earlier). You’ll find your day much more productive. Best of luck, my dude.
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Man that's so early, but then again stuff like gyms and some workplace shifts can open at like 6:00. But if you can get to bed regularly at like 10:00 or 11:00, that's like my dream.
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I really don't underatand this point about getting up so early it's still dark outside and claim your day is more productive. Ultimately you'll have to get to bed earlier, so you're not getting longer days from it.
What I'm presuming to be the case here is more that consistently getting up at the same time every day is the key to waking up with more energy, rather than it having to be butt early.
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Mark Wahlberg wakes up at 2:30am every day and look how productive he is
![[image loading]](https://media.golfdigest.com/photos/5b99609b76b1c2046e109270/master/w_925/wahlberg%2520IG.jpg)
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On October 19 2018 11:33 Excludos wrote:
I really don't underatand this point about getting up so early it's still dark outside and claim your day is more productive. Ultimately you'll have to get to bed earlier, so you're not getting longer days from it.
What I'm presuming to be the case here is more that consistently getting up at the same time every day is the key to waking up with more energy, rather than it having to be butt early.
Having enough time to establish a routine before you go to work is important. If I'm up at 6, by 8am I've excersised, showered, eaten, cleansed/moisturised etc and I'm fully good to go until the end of the day.
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On October 19 2018 11:42 IgnE wrote:Mark Wahlberg wakes up at 2:30am every day and look how productive he is
He also goes to bed at 7:30. He would have had the exact same day if he got up at 7 and went to bed at midnight.
Also, don't skimp out on sleep guys. 7 hours a day is stretching it for most of us. You should get 8 (it's perfectly ok to sleep less in the weekdays and catch up with more sleep on the weekend, but then you run into the problem of inconsistent bed- and wakeup times)
On October 19 2018 11:54 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2018 11:33 Excludos wrote:
I really don't underatand this point about getting up so early it's still dark outside and claim your day is more productive. Ultimately you'll have to get to bed earlier, so you're not getting longer days from it.
What I'm presuming to be the case here is more that consistently getting up at the same time every day is the key to waking up with more energy, rather than it having to be butt early. Having enough time to establish a routine before you go to work is important. If I'm up at 6, by 8am I've excersised, showered, eaten, cleansed/moisturised etc and I'm fully good to go until the end of the day.
That's perfectly fine. If you feel the need to exercise before work then I can see getting up early. I just do that stuff after instead.
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On October 19 2018 05:16 IgnE wrote:
@L_Master
for me the primary blindspot you have demonstrated in the last few pages has to so with your lack of experience of LTRs in general
ive been doing the open thing longer than you have, and when you are truly “single” and live by yourself and have your own space it is much much easier as a guy to meet new women.
everything changes when you start to make more serious commitments to one woman. rather than jumping straight to considering something like marriage (which whatever its downsides provides real legal benefits, if for example, you want to have kids), consider moving in with a partner.
the interest from other women plummets off a cliff when you live with someone. this suggests that when you are dating multiple people, but still “single” in a certain sense, each woman still views herself as perhaps your “main” commitment, or possibly future “main” commitment. once you move in, women would rather not bother wasting time w you, especially when you are just one of many on a market full of more unattached men. this leads to even more significant investment of your time to find new people to “date” at all, let alone for any significant length of time
this should not be considered a hard argument against what you are doing now, or even against “keeping it open” indefinitely. but my experience is that the way you are describing it now, where you are in control, awash in opportunity, etc. is not the whole picture. it is more like a life phase where you are at a local peak in dating market desirability which only stays open insofar as you dont get too attached to any one person. problems get thornier when you consider the fact that while women are much less likely to want to give a shot to a guy living with another woman, many men have no compunctions about dating and sleeping w a woman who says she’s similarly committed to another man.
Thank you. Lots of worthwhile things to keep in mind. I will almost certainly do the bolded when that time comes, I think it's good advice.
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EPT
