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Who is the smartest poster at TL.net? - Page 10

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softwarepirate
Profile Joined April 2005
United States153 Posts
May 04 2005 09:51 GMT
#181
im not extremely smart... but im arragant as all get up ^_^
Me steal software? NEVER!!! ;)
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 04 2005 09:53 GMT
#182
On May 04 2005 18:46 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2005 18:41 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
I'm probably going to reveal my lack of intelligence here, but I am curious about the Addendum #5 in the link given for this probability problem. I've been convinced as to the actual Monty Hall problem with the three doors already btw, this picture helped.

For anyone who is too lazy to look up the link, the scenario is basically three prisoners on deathrow, one of whom will be pardoned at random. Then, one of the prisoners (A) convinces the warden to reveal one of the prisoners who will not be pardoned (C). According to the addendum, the probability of A being the one pardoned is still 1/3, while the other prisoner (B) has his odds go up to 2/3. Is this just a matter of perception, because it would seem that from C's perspective he would be the 1/3 and A would be the 2/3? My brain fails me, please enlighten.


Er...if you're talking about the probability of A being pardoned after its revealed C is not being pardoned, the probability of A being pardoned is now 1/2.


Addendum #5:

Martin Gardner's version, published in October 1959, involved three condemned prisoners, one of whom will be pardoned at random. One prisoner cons the warden into naming one of the other prisoners (other than the prisoner who is asking this of the warden) who will not be pardoned. Do this prisoner's (the one talking to the warden) chances of being pardoned then go up to 50%? This is identical to the Monty Hall trap, and this prisoner's chances are still 1/3, but the probability that the third prisoner will be pardoned have gone up to 2/3. Mr. Gardner got a flood of mail about this, much smaller than Ms. Savant's flood of mail.

Marilyn Vos Savant's column was published in Parade magazine, on September 9, 1990. Subsequent readers' comment appeared on Dec. 2, 1990, Feb. 17, 1991, Jul. 7, 1991, Sep. 8, 1991, Oct. 13, 1991, Jan. 5, 1992, and Jan. 26, 1992. Also see The New York Times of July 21, 1991 (front page) and August 11, 1991 about the furor. Several articles in mathematical journals were also devoted to this.

As per the bottom of http://www.jimloy.com/puzz/monty.htm
Maybe I should have said that the person to be pardoned was chosen before C was revealed as one that will not be pardoned?
Moderator
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
May 04 2005 09:53 GMT
#183
On May 04 2005 18:51 softwarepirate wrote:
im not extremely smart... but im arragant as all get up ^_^


If you're dumb, then why are you arrogant?

Let smart people be proud
and let stupid people be meek

and all would be right with the world.
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
May 04 2005 09:55 GMT
#184
Martin Gardner's version, published in October 1959, involved three condemned prisoners, one of whom will be pardoned at random. One prisoner cons the warden into naming one of the other prisoners (other than the prisoner who is asking this of the warden) who will not be pardoned. Do this prisoner's (the one talking to the warden) chances of being pardoned then go up to 50%? This is identical to the Monty Hall trap, and this prisoner's chances are still 1/3, but the probability that the third prisoner will be pardoned have gone up to 2/3. Mr. Gardner got a flood of mail about this, much smaller than Ms. Savant's flood of mail.


Here is how I would explain it:

I'll assume that you are the prisoner. You know from the start that you have a 1/3 chance of being pardoned. On the same line, you also know that there is a 1/3 chance that neither of them will be pardoned. When one of them is eliminated, you know that the remaining guy has a 1/3 chance that he will not pardoned (because of what we just said), so the other 2/3 of the time he will be.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
softwarepirate
Profile Joined April 2005
United States153 Posts
May 04 2005 09:57 GMT
#185
On May 04 2005 18:53 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2005 18:51 softwarepirate wrote:
im not extremely smart... but im arragant as all get up ^_^


If you're dumb, then why are you arrogant?

Let smart people be proud
and let stupid people be meek

and all would be right with the world.


Well I didn't say I was dumb. I know a bit about lots of stuff. Every1 has their field which they are really smart in...I was just admiting im definetely not the smartest person here... tho im damn smart in history ^_^
Me steal software? NEVER!!! ;)
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 04 2005 09:59 GMT
#186
On May 04 2005 18:50 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote:

Why would C's perspective be different? Nobody was telling C anything, only A.

The only perspective that would matter is A because he was the one who was talking to the warden. The other perspectives are non-existant.


Oops typo, change my question to if the odds would change if you were looking from B's perspective, not C. I guess you could still argue that B's perspective is also non-existent from the viewpoint of the hypo, but I'm still curious as to whether the odds would change according to perspective and knowledge. Would it be different if the warden told both A and B that C wasn't being pardoned or if B was the one asking instead of A? It just seems to be a matter of who was asking that determines the probabilities, and I'm curious if that's the case.
Moderator
camooT
Profile Joined October 2004
United States1354 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-04 10:11:12
May 04 2005 10:02 GMT
#187
[QUOTE]On May 04 2005 18:46 MoltkeWarding wrote:
[QUOTE]On May 04 2005 18:41 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
I'm probably going to reveal my lack of intelligence here, but I am curious about the Addendum #5 in the link given for this probability problem. I've been convinced as to the actual Monty Hall problem with the three doors already btw, this [URL=http://math.ucr.edu/~jdp/Monty_Hall/Monty_Hall.html]picture[/URL] helped.

For anyone who is too lazy to look up the link, the scenario is basically three prisoners on deathrow, one of whom will be pardoned at random. Then, one of the prisoners (A) convinces the warden to reveal one of the prisoners who will not be pardoned (C). According to the addendum, the probability of A being the one pardoned is still 1/3, while the other prisoner (B) has his odds go up to 2/3. Is this just a matter of perception, because it would seem that from C's perspective he would be the 1/3 and A would be the 2/3? My brain fails me, please enlighten.[/QUOTE]
Ignore this post. I misread above.

And moltke is a bloody idiot.
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
May 04 2005 10:05 GMT
#188
I don't quite know what you are arguing. Are you saying the chances of the main guy being freed is not 1/3?
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
camooT
Profile Joined October 2004
United States1354 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-04 10:08:59
May 04 2005 10:07 GMT
#189
Oops. Should've read more closely. A does have a 1/3 chance, following the Monty Hall rule, because he forced the warden to pick someone other than him. If B were to do the same, the odds would be 1/3 for him as well. Notice the key difference: WHO is conning the warden ELIMINATES that person from being chosen.

P.S. Moltke is a fucking idiot for being 3 pages behind everyone but your_killer. Please don't let us argue with him about this shit another 3 pages.

edit: let me explain my last post. I misread the scenario. I thought what it said was that the warden would tell the convict one person who definitely was not being released, but instead it was that the convict conned the warden into revealing the name of someone not being released, OTHER THAN HIM (the convict).
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 04 2005 10:09 GMT
#190
According to the scenario outlined above: A (the asker) has 1/3 chance of being the one who will be pardoned, while B (the non-asking unpicked) has a 2/3 chance of being the one who will be pardoned. I'm wondering if this changes if B was the one asking, or if both asked? Because then it seems to be probability based upon perspective or knowledge, and I'm not sure if that's correct.
Moderator
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-04 10:12:22
May 04 2005 10:10 GMT
#191
On May 04 2005 18:53 XaI)CyRiC wrote:

Addendum #5:

Martin Gardner's version, published in October 1959, involved three condemned prisoners, one of whom will be pardoned at random. One prisoner cons the warden into naming one of the other prisoners (other than the prisoner who is asking this of the warden) who will not be pardoned. Do this prisoner's (the one talking to the warden) chances of being pardoned then go up to 50%? This is identical to the Monty Hall trap, and this prisoner's chances are still 1/3, but the probability that the third prisoner will be pardoned have gone up to 2/3. Mr. Gardner got a flood of mail about this, much smaller than Ms. Savant's flood of mail.

Marilyn Vos Savant's column was published in Parade magazine, on September 9, 1990. Subsequent readers' comment appeared on Dec. 2, 1990, Feb. 17, 1991, Jul. 7, 1991, Sep. 8, 1991, Oct. 13, 1991, Jan. 5, 1992, and Jan. 26, 1992. Also see The New York Times of July 21, 1991 (front page) and August 11, 1991 about the furor. Several articles in mathematical journals were also devoted to this.

As per the bottom of http://www.jimloy.com/puzz/monty.htm
Maybe I should have said that the person to be pardoned was chosen before C was revealed as one that will not be pardoned?


This version I think comes to 2/3 because of the operative phrase: one of the other prisoners

(Edited some of the quotes out to save space)
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 04 2005 10:10 GMT
#192
On May 04 2005 19:07 camooT wrote:
Oops. Should've read more closely. A does have a 1/3 chance, following the Monty Hall rule, because he forced the warden to pick someone other than him. If B were to do the same, the odds would be 1/3 for him as well. Notice the key difference: WHO is conning the warden ELIMINATES that person from being chosen.

P.S. Moltke is a fucking idiot for being 3 pages behind everyone but your_killer. Please don't let us argue with him about this shit another 3 pages.

edit: let me explain my last post. I misread the scenario. I thought what it said was that the warden would tell the convict one person who definitely was not being released, but instead it was that the convict conned the warden into revealing the name of someone not being released, OTHER THAN HIM (the convict).


Thanks, that cleared things up
Moderator
MoltkeWarding
Profile Joined November 2003
5195 Posts
May 04 2005 10:12 GMT
#193
On May 04 2005 19:07 camooT wrote:
Oops. Should've read more closely. A does have a 1/3 chance, following the Monty Hall rule, because he forced the warden to pick someone other than him. If B were to do the same, the odds would be 1/3 for him as well. Notice the key difference: WHO is conning the warden ELIMINATES that person from being chosen.

P.S. Moltke is a fucking idiot for being 3 pages behind everyone but your_killer. Please don't let us argue with him about this shit another 3 pages.

edit: let me explain my last post. I misread the scenario. I thought what it said was that the warden would tell the convict one person who definitely was not being released, but instead it was that the convict conned the warden into revealing the name of someone not being released, OTHER THAN HIM (the convict).


In case you haven't noticed, I haven't read any pages beyond where i began posting. Stop flaming please.
Zerius[TPR]
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada1633 Posts
May 04 2005 10:13 GMT
#194
On May 04 2005 18:37 imRadu wrote:
lost 10 IQ points reading this thread


You dont have 10 to lose.
where from you, circus?
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4685 Posts
May 04 2005 10:27 GMT
#195
im smart...doh
troi oi thang map nai!!!
SweeTLemonS[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
11739 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-04 10:39:04
May 04 2005 10:34 GMT
#196
On May 04 2005 12:00 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2005 10:34 Keanu_Reaver wrote:
smartest about what
and i think freak wins, he said he had an IQ of like 20572098420987


I have a high IQ, but I lack the dedication to really make use of it. I am simply one of those naturally smart fuckers who remembers everything he reads but has no drive to read that much.

Though that has been changing in the past year.

EDIT: Please note that this does indeed mean that I value dedication far above natural ability. I will always have what I have, and chances are will not amount to anything more than a computer programmer. The dedicated people are the ones that become doctors, not people like me. My intelligence isn't something to admire. It is like tripping over a suitcase with a billion dollars in it. Who the fuck really cares?


The guy lucky enough to stumble upon the suitcase and takes advantage of the situation he is given is the one who cares.

EDITED because I think people will feel I'm trying to look "smart" in a topic about smart people...
I'm never gonna know you now \ But I'm gonna love you anyhow.
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-04 10:46:59
May 04 2005 10:45 GMT
#197
The warden is not allowed to chose the person who was pardoned, so by selecting someone out of a pool of two, he is stating that he was not able to choose the other guy either because he himself is pardoned or because he could have chose either guy because the other person was pardoned. Since the person who is not in that group of 2 has a 1/3 chance of being pardoned, chances are (2/3) he was not able to chose whomever he didn't choose because they themselves are being pardoned.

I don't care if none of you can understand that terribly written slop, I had to get it off my back.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
May 04 2005 10:51 GMT
#198
My IQ tested above 150, but I'm so extremely absentminded and forgetful, it's hard for me to take myself seriously as an intellectual, so I don't tout is often.

A good number of the people on this forum are clearly very bright, but I wouldn't limit the list to the big-wigs that people on the first page mentioned; I hate threads created for the purpose of sucking-off the moderators, famous players, etc..
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
camooT
Profile Joined October 2004
United States1354 Posts
May 04 2005 10:53 GMT
#199
Whatever your intent, please stop posting IQ scores.
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-05-04 11:03:59
May 04 2005 10:54 GMT
#200
What's the highes possible IQ? I have that.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
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