EPTPrivate University = $40,000 a year.
The paradox of schools and universities in America - Page 2
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
Private University = $40,000 a year. | ||
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SnapCall
94 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:55 semantics wrote: They aren't all, most aren't private... Stop spouting shit out your ass UCLA,UC Berkley,University of Virginia,University of Michigan - Ann Arbor ;George Tech,UCSD,UC Davis,UCSB,UC Irvine,Penn state,Texas A&M,Virginia Tech. I'm sure given time i could think up more. so what does public mean? are those free/ close to free to attend? i always thought american universities are good cause they are so expensive. | ||
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trainRiderJ
United States615 Posts
Our primary and secondary public school system has none of this competition. Kids go to the school closest to where they live, and school funding is based on simple attendance and whether or not kids can demonstrate the most basic of reading and math skills. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
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skyR
Canada13817 Posts
On September 24 2011 02:01 SnapCall wrote: so what does public mean? are those free/ close to free to attend? i always thought american universities are good cause they are so expensive. Public means its funded by the public, ex. tax payer's money / government. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:59 paralleluniverse wrote: That's an interesting note. I didn't know there were so many international students. That is true but it is untrue to say that most students at a given school are international. There may be more international diversity within US universities than any other country, but there is still an overwhelming US-based student body at schools. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:59 paralleluniverse wrote: That's an interesting note. I didn't know there were so many international students. I knew a few each year that i was at UNC, it wasn't quite an overwhelming amount, but there'd always be at least like, one or two guys on the hall who'd be an exch student from somewhere else. I feel like part of the issue though is that kids in high school don't receive a ton of positive feedback to perform well. They either show up to class and coast through, or they basically get the vibe that studying is "lame" and shouldn't bother with it. A lot of parents for our generation had less than stellar school experiences, so if kids bring home a bunch of Cs and a D, the parents don't get upset, because they figure, "i got similar grades and turned out just fine." so there sometimes isn't quite as much of a pressure from the parents / society to turn things around. The schools that have kids flunking out and not passing aren't ever the same parents who get up in arms at PTA meetings about how the US is terrible at school. For example: The wake county (County i grew up in in NC) system is (relatively) good for public schooling. I went to a decent public school and went to Carolina for university. Our parents at the school would always complain about how north carolina was like, 48th in the nation in education. I had a few friends at some other schools in counties who were performing worse, and their parents literally did not care. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, based on a microscopic sample size, but i feel like there's something you can pull from that, even if only a little bit. | ||
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jmbnm
24 Posts
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On September 24 2011 02:01 SnapCall wrote: so what does public mean? are those free/ close to free to attend? i always thought american universities are good cause they are so expensive. Are there government loans for the cost of going to university in the US? In Australia, all students are able to get government loans for the tuition fees, which are automatically taken out of tax when you get a job later on. So essentially, all universities are free (or at least it feels that way). Is there any similar program for US universities? | ||
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K_Dilkington
Sweden449 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:48 giuocob wrote: Universities are private. America has been the site of many, many scientific and academic discoveries in its history, far more than any other country. . Ok that's interesting, can you give your factual evidence for this please?  You can send me a pm with the data or post it in this thread, thank you!  OnT: It's partly due to money, American universities make alot of money through high tuition fees. As some people stated above, the English language is a big advantage, they can attract talent from all over the world. Another reason is the fact that almost of all of the scientific research in America is conducted at universities, this is not the case in Europe, I don't know how it is with Asian universities. In Europe most of the important research is done at institutes of various kinds, the result of this research wont show up in university rankings. If European research was done at universities like in America, you would see alot of universities from Europe high up in the rankings. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On September 24 2011 02:04 skyR wrote: Public means its funded by the public, ex. tax payer's money / government. They're also substantially cheaper if you're an in-state student. Like, i went to UNC, being from NC, i paid a LOT less than if i lived in say, virginia, or any other state. Since i'm a resident to the state, i'm already paying to support the school with my taxes, and so i basically get a break when going to that school. If i went out of school, i'd be going to a school i hadn't supported, and so i'd be hit up for the max bill they'll give to someone for the school. If i'd gone to a private school, it also would have been substantially more expensive (b/c they don't receive funding from anyone, so i'd basically be paying out of state tuition no matter what state i'm from). So there is some incentive to go to an in-state public school, it's not just that they get a bunch of money from the gvmt | ||
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TYJ.Aoy
Brazil1265 Posts
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On September 24 2011 02:04 skyR wrote: Public means its funded by the public, ex. tax payer's money / government. True, but they still cost a good amount of money, especially if you are not from the state they are located. | ||
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On a more 'on-topic note,' what everyone else is saying pretty much hits the nail straight on the head. Universities and Colleges (are they the exact same thing?) charge pretty hefty tuition, and really good ones get positive feedback which gives them more prestige (like vetinari said). I think another huge factor is that the students are often times making amazing discoveries. In high school and everything below, the schools are purely teaching and making friends with your peers while doing so. In places like UCLA, Harvard, MIT, and the real genius-y places, the students oftentimes outshine their teachers. And even if they don't, you still hear about researchers from x university making amazing y discovery. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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SetStndbySmn
United States657 Posts
On September 24 2011 01:54 reneg wrote: that's not even close to true. A huge number of universities in america are public. Every single "____ State university" and "University of ______" is a public university. I'm from north carolina, and UNC, NCSU, East Carolina, Western, App State, All of the UNC Affiliates etc (UNC C, UNC W, UNC G) are all public universities. they get massive funding from the state and whatnot. Private ones are schools like Duke, and the Ivy leagues (not to say that they are few in number, there's a LOT of them), but there's a TON of public universities in america. As far as public primary schooling goes, i feel like a lot of the problem results from people wanting to send their kids to "good schools." Clearly you want what's best for your children, but there's little help that comes to the underprivileged schools to get them out of their rut. If teachers make it into a good school, they pretty much set up camp forever, and try to not ever leave. There's little incentive for teachers in poor schools to stay (They could even be reprimanded for the poor performance of their classes), and so they try to get jobs in better systems, and basically move up the chain. i feel like once under privileged schools get more of a boost, or rather, a better mixing system is implemented so you don't have as many clear lines on the map, the public system will get a lot better than it is. Pretty much this. The US is a big place and not all areas are particularly well-to-do obviously. Even with public schools it can be hit or miss; for instance, I'm also from NC, I went to public school, but I feel like I received a fantastic education. At Apex we had a brilliant calculus teacher who cared about her students more than anyone I've ever encountered, and a history teacher almost as good (all others were more than acceptable). Our extra-curricular activities were great, and I had a chance to be a part of a state championship winning team. However, Apex is a nice little (well used to be) town that's been on the upswing the last 15 years; there are many places in the state that aren't so fortunate, and like you said there isn't a whole lot of motivation for good/dedicated teachers to go there. On September 24 2011 02:08 Zaros wrote: Well number one university in the world is Cambridge, so America doesnt have the "best" university in the world, GO UK! Well the rankings from various sources vary from year to year, but I think I saw someone post in a different thread that Harvard took #1 this year, but don't hold me to it. Still, I think anyone would be more than happy with either. | ||
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reneg
United States859 Posts
On September 24 2011 02:06 paralleluniverse wrote: Are there government loans for the cost of going to university in the US? In Australia, all students are able to get government loans for the tuition fees, which are automatically taken out of tax when you get a job later on. So essentially, all universities are free (or at least it feels that way). Is there any similar program for US universities? You're able to get student loans either from the government, or from banks etc. They're usually 0% while you're attending the school, and for a little time after, as long as you're paying them back. but if you drag your feet for a really long time paying them back / whatever, you'll start to get charged interest. The universities are definitely not free, and at no point do they feel free, i know a lot of kids right now who are struggling with the debt that is levied upon them by their student loans, i was well off enough that i didn't need to take any out, but it's definitely something that you feel. There are also a TON of tiny little scholarships (for anything from 50.00 - 20,000 dollars), that'll help pay for things like food and books to full tuition and all kinds of things. you just have to look really hard for some of them. local churches etc often provide little ones to help buy books, and if you stack a couple of those together, you can get a big burden of your tuition paid off by scholarships | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
But: Countries have different opinions what school/universities should deliver. Therefore researchers from different countries obviously apply different criteria. Not long ago, I've seen a ranking that compares universities purely based on number of publications. In our media at least this was once more translated into "German universities suck". I mean, seriously: Did anyone ask if research happens to an equal precentage in universities in every country? Here we have quite a lot of scientific institutes which are formally not part of universities, but purely do research. But dose that mean our universities are worse, just because they fulfill a different role than say in the US? (yes they probably are, but not as much as it sometimes seems imho) Another example: German education in school dedicates a lot of time turning children into responsable tolerant democratic citizens with a broad horizon. I guess if we would spend this time learning math instead, our schools would be better in math than they are now. Now guess what happens if you compare german schools to chinese. We will be worse in most objectively measureable categories. But I don't mind it. | ||
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
On September 24 2011 02:04 reneg wrote: I knew a few each year that i was at UNC, it wasn't quite an overwhelming amount, but there'd always be at least like, one or two guys on the hall who'd be an exch student from somewhere else. I feel like part of the issue though is that kids in high school don't receive a ton of positive feedback to perform well. They either show up to class and coast through, or they basically get the vibe that studying is "lame" and shouldn't bother with it. A lot of parents for our generation had less than stellar school experiences, so if kids bring home a bunch of Cs and a D, the parents don't get upset, because they figure, "i got similar grades and turned out just fine." so there sometimes isn't quite as much of a pressure from the parents / society to turn things around. The schools that have kids flunking out and not passing aren't ever the same parents who get up in arms at PTA meetings about how the US is terrible at school. For example: The wake county (County i grew up in in NC) system is (relatively) good for public schooling. I went to a decent public school and went to Carolina for university. Our parents at the school would always complain about how north carolina was like, 48th in the nation in education. I had a few friends at some other schools in counties who were performing worse, and their parents literally did not care. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, based on a microscopic sample size, but i feel like there's something you can pull from that, even if only a little bit. I feel this is true as well. The major problem with lower education in the US is that the majority of our society doesn't value it. We spend more money on education per capita than many other nations, and in the end it comes down to the fact that most kids don't care about learning. | ||
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Sporadic44
United States533 Posts
Also keep in mind there are private schools for elementary-highschool. So a lot of wealthier people send their kids their. Id imagine a lot of those kids go to the tip top schools. And while its true that some public schools suck, there are also some very good public schools in america. Public schools are funded from the state, not the federal government. As well as I believe property tax. So if there's a lot of money in an area then the school will be better. Places like the south and public schools in the inner cities will (generally) be much worse in terms of value of education. | ||
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