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On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
Indeed. We don't respect education in this country. Intellectualism is made fun of, while playing football and cheerleading is 'cool'. Guess what happens to most students when studying makes you a social outcast.
On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
In the defense of administrators, I would like to point out that parents are increasingly bringing lawyers to deal with them. Teachers may be castrated by administrators, but administrators are handicapped by the parents who could easily cost them their jobs.
The real problem is that parents don't treat educational professionals, whether teachers or administrators, as... well, professionals. If parents started listening to teachers and administrators regarding their children's education the way that most people listen to their doctors and lawyers regarding medicine and law, then you would see a big shift.
As it is, parents frequently think they know better than teachers. This makes it realistic grading impossible (because a teacher who gives easy As never recieves complaints, but a harsh grader quickly gets reprimanded), encourages social promotion (schools rarely hold back even complete morons because it's not worth dealing with the backlash/lawsuit), and discourages disciplining students.
On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale.
More than that, they suck up tons of resources that could be better spent. At least send those kids to vocational schools, the military, or the workforce, rather than having them attend a glorified government-funded daycare system.
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Even a "public"university requires you to pay tuition, you don't have to pay tuition at a public school. So you actually have incentive to do well so you don't waste your money.
Also you aren't required to go to school past 16.....I think, so those who don't want to be in school don't go to a university, but when they are required to go they don't do.well which pulls down the grades. Add to that the fact that schools are paid for with local taxes so the richer the area the.better the school usually is.
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High school in america is a joke compared to other countries. In the coming decade I hope the rest of America realizes this.
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On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions.
Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have.
Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system.
Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway.
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On September 25 2011 11:07 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents. Indeed. We don't respect education in this country. Intellectualism is made fun of, while playing football and cheerleading is 'cool'. Guess what happens to most students when studying makes you a social outcast.Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents. In the defense of administrators, I would like to point out that parents are increasingly bringing lawyers to deal with them. Teachers may be castrated by administrators, but administrators are handicapped by the parents who could easily cost them their jobs. The real problem is that parents don't treat educational professionals, whether teachers or administrators, as... well, professionals. If parents started listening to teachers and administrators regarding their children's education the way that most people listen to their doctors and lawyers regarding medicine and law, then you would see a big shift. As it is, parents frequently think they know better than teachers. This makes it realistic grading impossible (because a teacher who gives easy As never recieves complaints, but a harsh grader quickly gets reprimanded), encourages social promotion (schools rarely hold back even complete morons because it's not worth dealing with the backlash/lawsuit), and discourages disciplining students. Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. More than that, they suck up tons of resources that could be better spent. At least send those kids to vocational schools, the military, or the workforce, rather than having them attend a glorified government-funded daycare system.
There's nothing wrong with football and cheer leading being cool. Its the fact that being a complete dumb ass isnt discouraged enough. Its like its cool to not know. Similar to that Chris Rock act. Its not even that intellectualism is frowned upon, generally the people who simply "study" are socially awkward anyway. Standards just need to be raised. Low expectations do nothing but hurt students.
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A lot of reasons have been put forth for why American schools are falling down the rankings like bad eachers, corrupt administrators, tv, video games, rock music, pollution, vaccines and the devil. Elephant in the room: It's the kids. When I was in school all I saw were laziness, apathy, ingratitude, delinquency and pretentiousness (not that I am any exception). Kids in America are more concerned with being cool and fitting in than studying. All the money and best teachers in the world won't do a thing for a kid who doesn't want to learn.
As for why American Universities are ranked so highly, just look up brain drain and you'll get your answer. Once you're on top it isn't difficult to stay there when so many of the world's brightest devote the first couple decades of their lives to an acceptance letter from your campus.
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Not really a kids' fault they're that way, its the parent's fault. There are way too many lazy/bad parents out there
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On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway.
This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. There is no evidence that the "kids" are at fault in the education system. However, we see the curriculum getting altered to teach less and education system workers having bloated salaries and/or positions that are way too secure.
don't bother replying
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United States24690 Posts
On September 25 2011 12:20 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway. This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. don't bother replying
You expect people to take you seriously when you make your point and then say "don't bother replying"?
I don't think Sadist's point was that your class was obviously full of dummies... just that this is all case-by-case and just as you accuse his assumptions of being an outlier so too can be your example.
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On September 25 2011 12:20 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway. This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. There is no evidence that the "kids" are at fault in the education system. However, we see the curriculum getting altered to teach less and education system workers having bloated salaries and/or positions that are way too secure. don't bother replying
Do you know why they teach less? Because of a lack of job security because of standardized testing. They teach less to try to keep test scores high because the only thing that matters are these ridiculous standardized tests. Lol@ bloated salaries. Do you have any idea what teachers actually make? Especially pre-masters degree?
Who cares if your university attendance is 80% at your highschool. People actually IN college have 68% averages regularly especially if you are in a math/science department.
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On September 25 2011 12:04 Sadist wrote:
Its not even that intellectualism is frowned upon, generally the people who simply "study" are socially awkward anyway.
You're not seeing the connection.
When it's cool to not study, people who are socially adept will follow along and not study (or at the very least, pretend not to). Instead, they will favor things that are cool, and for American kids, this means things like sports for boys and looking pretty for girls (to use some stereotypical examples). This means that people who study will tend to be socially awkward, since it is these socially inept kids who missed the social cues directing the other kids to not study.
When you have an environment where it's cool to go to a top-tier university (private schools, Asian-dominated schools, etc.), the situation is actually reversed, and the top performers tend to be socially adept.
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On September 25 2011 12:25 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:20 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway. This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. There is no evidence that the "kids" are at fault in the education system. However, we see the curriculum getting altered to teach less and education system workers having bloated salaries and/or positions that are way too secure. don't bother replying Do you know why they teach less? Because of a lack of job security because of standardized testing. They teach less to try to keep test scores high because the only thing that matters are these ridiculous standardized tests. Lol@ bloated salaries. Do you have any idea what teachers actually make? Especially pre-masters degree? Who cares if your university attendance is 80% at your highschool. People actually IN college have 68% averages regularly especially if you are in a math/science department.
Ok, first of all, I said the curriculum teaches less. Not the teachers. That doesn't even make sense. Of course you are going to keep saying that teachers make no money and lack job security. This contradicts everything you said.
http://teachersunionexposed.com/bargaining.cfm
here are teachers making up excuses against paying salaries according to how well you do your job
http://teachersunionexposed.com/meritpay.cfm
and here is the "victimized administration" having shit pay
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44305388/ns/us_news-giving/t/school-superintendent-gives-pay/
You do realize that college is privatized right? You can't compare college to public high schools because that's exactly what OP is talking about.
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On September 25 2011 12:31 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:04 Sadist wrote:
Its not even that intellectualism is frowned upon, generally the people who simply "study" are socially awkward anyway. You're not seeing the connection. When it's cool to not study, people who are socially adept will follow along and not study (or at the very least, pretend not to). Instead, they will favor things that are cool, and for American kids, this means things like sports for boys and looking pretty for girls (to use some stereotypical examples). This means that people who study will tend to be socially awkward, since it is these socially inept kids whol missed the social cues directing the other kids to not study. When you have an environment where it's cool to go to a top-tier university (private schools, Asian-dominated schools, etc.), you actually see a flip, where the top performers tend to instead be socially adept.
Agree. I think it goes both ways though, it's like the chicken or the egg.
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There is no paradox because the American school system does not suck.
People here are worried and complaining about it because it is on a downward trend and has been for several decades now but it is still among the best in the world.
And I would only compare it to Europeans anyways. Lots of people like to bring up China, Japan and Korea but I think that is rubbish, they have a different culture that works for them and would not work in the west. Though I would say that their emphasis on math and science is something we should try to acquire.
Unfortunately it is "cool" to chase around a leather ball like an idiot and it is "uncool" to be good at math...so the downward trend will continue and soon we will suck.
~edit~
and the universities will follow behind the grade school system but with a lag. As the school system falls, the quality of potential college students will fall and they will recruit mainly students from overseas, or unless the government prevents that they will just move over seas. In either case there will still be no paradox because the Universities will go where the talent is, but there would be some lag rather than instantaneous change.
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On September 25 2011 12:32 Joey Wheeler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:25 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 12:20 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway. This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. There is no evidence that the "kids" are at fault in the education system. However, we see the curriculum getting altered to teach less and education system workers having bloated salaries and/or positions that are way too secure. don't bother replying Do you know why they teach less? Because of a lack of job security because of standardized testing. They teach less to try to keep test scores high because the only thing that matters are these ridiculous standardized tests. Lol@ bloated salaries. Do you have any idea what teachers actually make? Especially pre-masters degree? Who cares if your university attendance is 80% at your highschool. People actually IN college have 68% averages regularly especially if you are in a math/science department. Ok, first of all, I said the curriculum teaches less. Not the teachers. That doesn't even make sense. Of course you are going to keep saying that teachers make no money and lack job security. This contradicts everything you said. http://teachersunionexposed.com/bargaining.cfmhere are teachers making up excuses against paying salaries according to how well you do your job http://teachersunionexposed.com/meritpay.cfmand here is the "victimized administration" having shit pay http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44305388/ns/us_news-giving/t/school-superintendent-gives-pay/You do realize that college is privatized right? You can't compare college to public high schools because that's exactly what OP is talking about.
I'm done with you. You are going off on a libertarian tangent. Do you want to know why teachers don't want merit pay? Because there isn't a good measuring stick for judging how well a teacher does. You generally just know it when you see it. I have no sympathy with administration. I don't know where you get that from. I think they need to grow some balls and stand up to parents.
You still don't get that maybe your class deserved 68's. If a teacher tries to make you work for it suddenly they suck and its their fault. I wish more high school teachers did that when I was in HS. There is a rude awakening in store for people who only care about grades and not what they are actually learning when they get to college.
Also that top article references salaries of like 80k in NYC? Of course they make more in NYC the cost of living is ridiculous. Here in Michigan you'd be lucky to make 35k+ coming out of college to be a teacher. You won't go near 50k without a masters degree.
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On September 25 2011 12:37 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:32 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 12:25 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 12:20 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway. This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. There is no evidence that the "kids" are at fault in the education system. However, we see the curriculum getting altered to teach less and education system workers having bloated salaries and/or positions that are way too secure. don't bother replying Do you know why they teach less? Because of a lack of job security because of standardized testing. They teach less to try to keep test scores high because the only thing that matters are these ridiculous standardized tests. Lol@ bloated salaries. Do you have any idea what teachers actually make? Especially pre-masters degree? Who cares if your university attendance is 80% at your highschool. People actually IN college have 68% averages regularly especially if you are in a math/science department. Ok, first of all, I said the curriculum teaches less. Not the teachers. That doesn't even make sense. Of course you are going to keep saying that teachers make no money and lack job security. This contradicts everything you said. http://teachersunionexposed.com/bargaining.cfmhere are teachers making up excuses against paying salaries according to how well you do your job http://teachersunionexposed.com/meritpay.cfmand here is the "victimized administration" having shit pay http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44305388/ns/us_news-giving/t/school-superintendent-gives-pay/You do realize that college is privatized right? You can't compare college to public high schools because that's exactly what OP is talking about. I'm done with you. You are going off on a libertarian tangent. Do you want to know why teachers don't want merit pay? Because there isn't a good measuring stick for judging how well a teacher does. You generally just know it when you see it. I have no sympathy with administration. I don't know where you get that from. I think they need to grow some balls and stand up to parents. You still don't get that maybe your class deserved 68's. If a teacher tries to make you work for it suddenly they suck and its their fault. I wish more high school teachers did that when I was in HS. There is a rude awakening in store for people who only care about grades and not what they are actually learning when they get to college.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/m40U8.png)
Try to find what part of the pyramid your reply falls into.
oh and here are 12 ways you can measure teacher effectiveness (sure is impossible right?)
http://www.isetl.org/ijtlhe/pdf/IJTLHE8.pdf
average teacher salary is $57k in Michigan, along with extensive teacher union benefits. don't think you need a Master's Degree to become average.
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I kinda get the feeling that the op was insinuating that the rankings are distorted and that American universities are put on top because the US is influencing the ratings (hell most of them are done by US companies/organizations). That said, top universities accept applicants from all over the world. What child dreams of going to "University of X Country" when they could go to Harvard or Yale etc?
People go to universities to get more opportunities (building connections, alumni networks, prestige from degrees) not just because they like studying. And guess where most of the opportunities were to become super rich/successful etc? You guessed it, the US (at least up until recently, things may be changing). Also, people need to remember that most programs/schools aren't rated on how well the students perform on standardized tests, but rather the research/publications that the programs produce, notable scholars/artists, and the success of its students in finding jobs afterwards.
Finally, the top universities have extremely stringent requirements to get in. Unless your education system is completely garbage to the point where people come out of it illiterate, you're going to be able to find a few gems from the thousands of applicants. And if you can't, well you can always look overseas.
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On September 25 2011 01:12 BushidoSnipr wrote:
There are tons of public universities, but the majority of them are insanely fucking hard to get into.
They almost literally force you to have some sort tragic past or life changing experience. They base their admission mainly on the entrance essay(s) and they only accept kids who are "special"
And plus it costs 20 years of post college debt anyway.
IMO The universities are good, but theres a shitton of tradeoffs
dude, really? You sound a bit bitter.
I went to the University of Washington for 4k a year (in-state for me). My parents are still together, are upper middle class, and when I attended I hadn't personally known a single person who died or had cancer. Additionally, I wasn't involved in Student Governement, or clubs, or shit like that.
IMO this post perfectly shows the problem with America, no one will take responsibility for something if they can blame an external force.
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On September 25 2011 12:22 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 12:20 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 12:02 Sadist wrote:On September 25 2011 10:55 Joey Wheeler wrote:On September 25 2011 10:13 Sadist wrote:
Is a culture problem more than anything. Students don't care/aren't held accountable by their parents.
If they fuck up its of course the teachers fault. Administrators are the biggest pussies nowadays, one parent complains and they flip their shit. Meanwhile the teachers have been basically castrated by administrators in dealing with parents.
Basically, we are fucked culturally. People who have said they have had "meh" teachers, think about those teachers compared to college professors. 100% im sure they are better at teaching than almost all Professors you have had. The kids and their parents need to be held more responsible, less onus needs to put on the teachers unless there is some egregious shit going on.
Also people who don't wanna be in school need to be kicked the fuck out. They ruin it for everyone else and are a big drag on morale. Replies these are completely typical. So pro-establishment it is disgusting. Do some research on teacher unions and then say teachers are always the victims. Once you've got the job, thanks to the mafia-like organization backing you up, it's almost impossible to get fired, especially if you're a minority. I had an Aboriginal math functions teacher a few years back and her class average was 68. Not only that, she threw a stapler at a student. Did she get fired? Of course not. So next time, don't make broad assumptions. Maybe the class deserved 68's? It would have to be assessed on a case by case basis. A 68 average is pretty typical in college. Maybe you should grow the fuck up and learn your shit and use the resources you have. Teacher's arent always the victims. But I can see how being a teacher gets tiring after a while of putting up with the bullshit of parents/administrators. Not to mention every year the students seem to come in knowing less and being more disillusioned with the school system. Throwing a stapler at a student. TBH who cares. Was the student cut and bleeding? Stitches? They probably deserved it anyway. This was the only class of that grade to have such low grades. At this school, university attendance after high school graduation exceeds 80%. Your assumptions are fine and dandy, until it's evident that it is an outlier and we can really see where the fault is. don't bother replying You expect people to take you seriously when you make your point and then say "don't bother replying"? I don't think Sadist's point was that your class was obviously full of dummies... just that this is all case-by-case and just as you accuse his assumptions of being an outlier so too can be your example.
Don't reply because he's busy playing card games, like he knows what school is about hell he probably dropped out to go to all those tournaments i swear there is no way they could do all that and attend school.
You can only blame a teacher for so much, the idea of blaming teach unions is quite odd in my point of view. People confused what a teach union is, they can fire you if you're a shit poor teacher being part of a union means that there has to be a legit reason and process for firing a teacher, ie a benefit of a union. This is probably a hindrance on the firers side, but it's a great stride for workers rights, to say teachers who are in the process of getting fired still get payed and crap well, would you like to be held up for weeks on end without a job being told we are reviewing your case blah blah blah, perhaps if it was funded better they could afford speedier bureaucracy. But guess what i would be on the bottom of my to do list if i was trying to keep schools running, processing teachers to get fired, maybe get them out of the classroom asap but fuck paper work.
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America has a lot of students from poor backgrounds, who are first generation immigrants who barely speak English, or come from violent inner-city neighborhoods. The top students from America are equivalent to the top students from Europe though. (although neither study as hard as Korean/Chinese top students, which will become a problem soon)
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EPT
