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On September 19 2011 03:19 Ropid wrote:
I am inclined to basically ignore SharkSpider's wall of text. I really do not see what there is to talk about so much. My argumentation would simply be, the child itself has a need for child support, and both parents are responsible.
The child had nothing to do with whatever contracts and decisions are done before its birth. Adoption works regarding child support, because there is someone taking over the responsibility of the parents. About woman's right to decide what to do with her own body and abortion, for me I see no need to argue, because it is only done the first few months of pregnancy, where the embryo does not yet really have a brain (or whatever makes one human) and is not yet a person.
(Edited because I just remembered an article I read a while back)
Germany's got pretty reasonable laws relating to child support anyways, makes sense that a citizen there wouldn't recognize any problems with it.
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On September 19 2011 01:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +If the woman was responsible she wouldn't have gotten pregnant outside marriage in the first place. There is nothing stopping her from getting an abortion if she doesn't want the child, either. This putting all responsibility on the woman theme is disgusting. Show nested quote +You can keep saying it's stupid but you aren't offering any rationale as to why it is so. Why can the vagina terminate the child during pregnancy but not the dick? It goes both ways, woman don' t JUST try and get pregnant to stick a man to child support, there are many cases where a man wants the child but the woman decides to terminate. There is no reason the entire decision to have a baby or not should be held with the woman. Please enlighten me why it should be this way. Because the baby is inside her body? Also, I have offered rationales, the problem is you are sexist and want to put men in a higher place than women with this crazy talk. Show nested quote +Also for your second point about pregnancy.. i dont even know if you've read the thread. During pregnancy would be the time the man would be able to opt-out, a male abortion if you will. I did the read the thread, the entire idea is dumb. "Oh well it'd be during the pregnancy" irrelevant. Problem is men in their 20s and 30s are now still developmentally stuck in their teens, people like you need to grow up and man up.
ok, you're delusional, it's official.
No more responses for you.
Calling me sexist because i think both parties should be able to decide if they want to raise a child? Then call men in their 20s and 30s developmentally teens haha, oh man, your true colors are finally revealed. All i want is an equal say in if someone wants to keep a kid or not, man and woman.
Anyway, when you can't dismiss a claim or rationally speak about something just call the other person racist/sexist/stupid, works every time!
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You do know a lot of men just leave and not pay anything at all right?
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On September 19 2011 04:13 lorkac wrote:
You do know a lot of men just leave and not pay anything at all right?
Statistics?
There are also women who squander child support money for herself, and not for her child. There are abusers from both genders. Not to mention the women gets the child a vast majority of the time when the couple splits.
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For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves.
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I think the choice of abortions is not really about "whether or not you want to be a parent".
It's really more about "I have the right to do with my body as I please".
You, as a man, do not have the right to do whatever you want with the woman's body. You require her consent.
Until the baby is born, it's part of the woman. Blame mother nature for that one bro.
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On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves.
You're assuming the female takes care of the child.
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On September 18 2011 19:59 PrideNeverDie wrote:
women have scraped semen off rags and shoved it inside themselves to get pregnant)
can someone provide a credited example of this actually happening?? it just seems like another bullshit schoolyard rumour to me
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On September 19 2011 05:02 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves. You're assuming the female takes care of the child.
which is mostly the case, the courts almost always side with the women :/
by the way birth control works wonders people 
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I don't like abortion, I don't like divorce, and I don't like it when children have to be put up for adoption, it's all very sad. IMO, people should have to take care of their biological children indefinitely, but I know this is not possible, and I can accept that.
But what I can't accept is that women can get abortions because it is their body and child, so they can do whatever they want with it, but if she wants to keep it and the man doesn't then he has to pay her money out of his pocket because he has a dick, at least I think that's the reason, right?
I don't have to worry about ever paying child support because I use extra strength steel-framed condoms.
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child support doesnt have to do with the parents; it has to do with the child. child support is ordered by courts to make sure all children have a good well-being. focusing on the rights of the parents and equal protection is off-key.
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On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves.
The question is not wether the money is spent on the child or not... It's a question about the male not having a choise wether or not he wants to pay.
Either he will father the child. Raise it and everything.
Or else he will not want the child - in which case he will pay 3,600$ * 18 years (I reckon) which turns out to be 64,800$.
Is it fair that IN THE CASE OF THE FATHER NOT WANTING THE CHILD the woman can still claim 64,800$? Where in the opposite case... the father wanting it - but the mother doesn't... She will "just" have an abortion...
I have a hard time seeing the equality. Either way - if a woman is pregnant... She gets the upper hand.
I'm not saying women by any means are superior in society - but at this particular point - men really need a chance to get some legal rights.
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On September 19 2011 05:10 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 05:02 buhhy wrote:On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves. You're assuming the female takes care of the child. which is mostly the case, the courts almost always side with the women :/ by the way birth control works wonders people
I mean, assuming the woman spends the money on the child. I'm well aware a vast majority of children disputes ends in favor of women. It's completely bullshit, but that's not what this discussion is about.
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Yes, it's happened, but the vast vast vast majority of unintended pregnancies have nothing to do with this. It's amazing how a few nutters can be brought up and presented as a legitimate argument to support an argument. Something like this happens SO RARELY that it's absurd to base any form of argument off of it.
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On September 19 2011 05:31 buhhy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 05:10 MenSol[ZerO] wrote:On September 19 2011 05:02 buhhy wrote:On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves. You're assuming the female takes care of the child. which is mostly the case, the courts almost always side with the women :/ by the way birth control works wonders people I mean, assuming the woman spends the money on the child. I'm well aware a vast majority of children disputes ends in favor of women. It's completely bullshit, but that's not what this discussion is about.
just so it is clear, the courts normally rule in favor of the custodial parent, not the woman. it just so happens that the custodial parent is normally the mother. it is not about man vs. woman; the law is designed to protect the child.
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On September 19 2011 05:21 Mentalizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves. The question is not wether the money is spent on the child or not... It's a question about the male not having a choise wether or not he wants to pay. Either he will father the child. Raise it and everything. Or else he will not want the child - in which case he will pay 3,600$ * 18 years (I reckon) which turns out to be 64,800$. Is it fair that IN THE CASE OF THE FATHER NOT WANTING THE CHILD the woman can still claim 64,800$? Where in the opposite case... the father wanting it - but the mother doesn't... She will "just" have an abortion... I have a hard time seeing the equality. Either way - if a woman is pregnant... She gets the upper hand. I'm not saying women by any means are superior in society - but at this particular point - men really need a chance to get some legal rights.
is it fair for a child (who had no choice at all in his or her conception) not to receive adequate support because his parents are deadbeats (mother or father)? the father chose to have sex; he bears the consequences.
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They definitely need to fix child support I agree. I heard of a few people that actually killed people over it a long with themselves. I heard one story about a guy that paid and his ex even started to collect alimony off of him. He got a second job to benefit himself since he couldn't make much with just one job while paying alimony and child support and his ex took him to court so that she could collect on his second job too. Well, turns out he ended up flipping out and killed her and himself.
It's in my opinion that the only women that collect child support from a man that never wanted to be a parent in the first place are weak women that need to rely on a man for money and cant support them self or their kid. So they abuse the system and take the money from the man that never wanted to be a father.
Personally, if I ever got a girl pregnant and I didn't want to be a parent I'd have nothing to do with the baby and I'd go a long and start a family with a women that I love and show her kid and her what they missed out on due to their greediness.
On September 19 2011 05:44 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 05:21 Mentalizor wrote:On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves. The question is not wether the money is spent on the child or not... It's a question about the male not having a choise wether or not he wants to pay. Either he will father the child. Raise it and everything. Or else he will not want the child - in which case he will pay 3,600$ * 18 years (I reckon) which turns out to be 64,800$. Is it fair that IN THE CASE OF THE FATHER NOT WANTING THE CHILD the woman can still claim 64,800$? Where in the opposite case... the father wanting it - but the mother doesn't... She will "just" have an abortion... I have a hard time seeing the equality. Either way - if a woman is pregnant... She gets the upper hand. I'm not saying women by any means are superior in society - but at this particular point - men really need a chance to get some legal rights. is it fair for a child (who had no choice at all in his or her conception) not to receive adequate support because his parents are deadbeats (mother or father)? the father chose to have sex; he bears the consequences.
Yea, cause having sex should have consequences  .Sex is a basic human act and without it none of us would exist. To make it have consequences is retarded and the system regarding child support needs to be fixed. Furthermore, throwing someone in jail because they lack the money or don't pay child support is retarded and a waste of tax dollars.
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[quote][QUOTE]On September 19 2011 05:49 Sovern wrote:
They definitely need to fix child support I agree. I heard of a few people that actually killed people over it a long with themselves. I heard one story about a guy that paid and his ex even started to collect alimony off of him. He got a second job to benefit himself since he couldn't make much with just one job while paying alimony and child support and his ex took him to court so that she could collect on his second job too. Well, turns out he ended up flipping out and killed her and himself. [QUOTE][/quote]
so, because of one situation we should destroy the whole system? also, alimony means they were married, its unrelated to child support.
[quote][QUOTE]It's in my opinion that the only women that collect child support from a man that never wanted to be a parent in the first place are weak women that need to rely on a man for money and cant support them self or their kid. So they abuse the system and take the money from the man that never wanted to be a father. [QUOTE][/quote]
this is stupid on so many levels. a woman gets pregnant for child support? that so stupid. child support covers, what, 10% of the total cost of a kid? get real dude.
[quote][QUOTE]Personally, if I ever got a girl pregnant and I didn't want to be a parent I'd have nothing to do with the baby and I'd go a long and start a family with a women that I love and show her kid and her what they missed out on due to their greediness. [QUOTE][/quote]
well, you are a deadbeat. point made.
[quote][QUOTE][QUOTE]On September 19 2011 05:44 dAPhREAk wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 19 2011 05:21 Mentalizor wrote:
[QUOTE]On September 19 2011 04:57 Haemonculus wrote:
For the record, the average child support paid by men to women comes out t $3,600 a year, or roughly $300 a month.
Considering how much it costs to actually raise a child, I doubt there's a lot of money for the parent with custody to "squander" on themselves.[/QUOTE]
The question is not wether the money is spent on the child or not... It's a question about the male not having a choise wether or not he wants to pay.
Either he will father the child. Raise it and everything.
Or else he will not want the child - in which case he will pay 3,600$ * 18 years (I reckon) which turns out to be 64,800$.
Is it fair that IN THE CASE OF THE FATHER NOT WANTING THE CHILD the woman can still claim 64,800$? Where in the opposite case... the father wanting it - but the mother doesn't... She will "just" have an abortion...
I have a hard time seeing the equality. Either way - if a woman is pregnant... She gets the upper hand.
I'm not saying women by any means are superior in society - but at this particular point - men really need a chance to get some legal rights.[/QUOTE]
is it fair for a child (who had no choice at all in his or her conception) not to receive adequate support because his parents are deadbeats (mother or father)? the father chose to have sex; he bears the consequences.[/QUOTE][QUOTE][/quote]
Yea, cause having sex should have consequences .Sex is a basic human act and without it none of us would exist. To make it have consequences is retarded and the system regarding child support needs to be fixed. Furthermore, throwing someone in jail because they lack the money or don't pay child support is retarded and a waste of tax dollars. [/QUOTE]
yes. having sex should have consequences. you bring a kid in this world, you take care of it.
your reference to tax dollars is just moronic. who do you think pays for the kids when the deadbeat father doesnt?
edit: well formating was fucked. got to go. fix later
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EPT
